this bitch immediately. Your emotions are involved, and you'd best take a smaller emotional hit now rather than a much bigger hit later. Any girl who demands an extra $25 from a regular, particularly a regular who has been very nice to her, is simply viewing you as an ATM, and doesn't give a shit about you or your emotions. I am NOT trying to offend you, and I sincerely hope you don't take offense, but I am trying to save you a lot of future pain. My advice? Don't give her a cent! Not one measly penny, as she definitely doesn't deserve it. Don't worry about finding others, and don't worry about your "performance." VARIETY is the spice of life, as they say, and it will carry you through in grand fashion. This girl you've been dealing with doesn't deserve the time of day, and you'd be foolish to continue with her.
I posted this on the National board but now I'm thinking maybe I should get a more New York-centric point of view on this. During the past few months I've been seeing a lady regularly. This is something of a first for me and now I'm wondering if I'm being accorded the benefits of regular status, or being taken advantage of. I'd appreciate it if both the guys and ladies could weigh in on this. Here are some details on my situation:
I've been seeing this lady for four months. One a week, every week. Sometimes more. The sessions are always 1.5 hours, or more. The lady tells me I'm her only weekly regular. I'm an easy client, or so says this lady. I don't need greek, or any language, just normal stuff. I generally ask for one cup. I'm also not a orge looks-wise, being middle-aged and gym-buff. So here's what happened:
I booked 1.5 hours with the lady last week, incall. I spent a grand total of 1.75 hours, from knock at the door until I left. A whole half-hour of that was her asking me my opinions about issues in her life -- no action whatsoever. She had just raised her rate from the week before, which I'd been paying beforehand. Her new rate was $250/hr. I left her $350 figuring that would cover it. Wrong.
Two minutes after I left my cell phone rang and the lady was steamed that I shorted her $25. The rate is $375 for 1.5 hours. I told her I didn't expect to be paying retail at this point. She said she wasn't charging me for the "extra half hour"!
I said okay, not being one to quibble over $25. And I didn't carp about spending a half-hour listening to her problems. To top it off, she wants that $25 in no uncertain terms next week.
Obviously I need to have a talk with this lady about this. But WHAT should I be asking for? A 1.5 hour session for the price of 1 hour? A two hour session for the price of 1.5? My approach is to ask for more time, rather than ask the lady to lower her rate. Remember, I'm a multi-hour WEEKLY client and have been for MONTHS. Or, maybe this lady is a little too greedy or petty and I should look for another regular. WHAT do you guys get for "give-backs" from your weekly regulars? Ladies, what benefits do you offer your regulars like me? Believe me, I know it's always about the money -- but I can't see someone as regular as me paying retail.
Joe, this is what I suggest you do...assumimg everything went "down" as you say....
Give her back the $25.00 and toss in an extra $5.00 to cover "interest"...and then politely tell her that you wiill not be needing her services anymore..."for personal reasons" and leave it at that.
Your story reads like its most definitely time to move on.
Just the other day someone asked on National...
How much would you pay for a provider?
Turkana, whom I consider the "Dean" of hobbying based on his long time experience and keen perspectives that he's demonstrated on TER discussion boards responded with:
"if I have the money and the chemistry is right, the amount is immaterial. But I only KNOW THAT if I know her well, or if we've spent considerable time together. I've had providers resist my giving them more money.
On the other hand, if she's deliberately chintzy, I will be, too."
Time to get "chintzy" and become "unavailable"!
Cheers!
Hey Joe-Do you need someone to come and bite you on the ass. Move on buddy, your just a dollar sign to this provider and nothing more. As you said you a no trouble client and she should be glad to have you. Again, it's not the money but the way she handled the situation that stinks. Joe, There are so many wonderful women out there that are just looking for a hobbiest such as yourself.
Girls if you are reading this I suggest you either post to Joe or send him a PM. A guy like him sounds like a providers dream.
In addition I just looked at your list of reviews. You are certainly not a newbie. You have had experience with lovely ladies. Why have you hung around with this provider so long??
Bm
-- Modified on 6/15/2004 9:38:07 AM
Thanks for the kind words, buddym. To answer your question about why I stuck it out with this lady, I can only say "we clicked". That, and I really don't have the time to go around "test-driving" new providers looking for a steady lady. I'd love it if some ladies would PM me because I really don't have the time to go looking. We can talk on the phone and if it seems we might click, we can set something up.
You don't remember Green stamps????????????????????
I personally feel that both indys and agencies should offer specials. First off, I want to say straight out that I am not a regular of any one provider but here are my thoughts on this.....
For her to call you steamed about $25 after all the loyal business is absurd, if she needed to mention it, she should have waited for your next meeting.
The fact that she was so hard up for $25 means there is something else (not good) going on in her life...Makes me think she needs a fix....
If a provider or agency ran a special for there best customers ie; buy 5 get 1 free or something of that nature. I for one would stick with a provider or agency that gave me an incentive for my loyalty. I also think the provider or agency would come out ahead of the game in the long run, they will generate much more business. The truth is (I think) most guys for the same money would go out for variety but for a (really nice) incentive with a "quality provider or agency" they would stick around and build an on going relationship.
That's just my opinion
-- Modified on 6/15/2004 5:54:47 PM
she doesn't watch the clock and you don't watch the money.
You're a regular when there's so much sex you're relieved to have a half hour to give her advice.
You're a regular when you ask her if she's got enough money.
You're a regular when she gives you freebies without you asking.
You're a regular when she says, "Honeee...there's this pair of shoes I really like," and you say, "Great! Let's go get them!" and you hop in a cab to Manolo.
It works both ways, it works both ways, but not over 25 bucks.
Get outta there!
I saw a visiting provider a couple of times. We hit it off really well. She scheduled a trip to town, just to see me and we had a 4 hour session.
After that, she raised her rates (she had been charging on the low side, and I told her so), but told me (without being prompted) that I would still get her old rate.
This is after seeing each other a total of 3 or 4 times.
It's obvious that the girl you are talking about has no concept of customer service. Give her her $25 and tell her to fuck off.
Here's the thing: This lady wears the Female Condom, without complaint. Most providers aren't willing, in my experience (feel free to disagree with me). I need the Female Condom, since I can't finish with the traditional jimmy on. ALSO, I don't finish quickly, at least not as fast as what some of you guys write about. By that I mean it takes me about 10-15 minutes of ,er, how to say this -- probing, to finish. But it is very gentle, delicate probing. It's not like I'm jackhammering her into the mattress. Now, if you hobbyists and ladies are saying this type of service is pretty common, then I'm more than willing to give her the $25 plus $5 interest as someone suggested and move on. (P.S. I guess this wouldn't be the time to mention I've given her about $800 worth of gifts -- since gifts are exactly that and not a barter or bribe for future service. Right?
this bitch immediately. Your emotions are involved, and you'd best take a smaller emotional hit now rather than a much bigger hit later. Any girl who demands an extra $25 from a regular, particularly a regular who has been very nice to her, is simply viewing you as an ATM, and doesn't give a shit about you or your emotions. I am NOT trying to offend you, and I sincerely hope you don't take offense, but I am trying to save you a lot of future pain. My advice? Don't give her a cent! Not one measly penny, as she definitely doesn't deserve it. Don't worry about finding others, and don't worry about your "performance." VARIETY is the spice of life, as they say, and it will carry you through in grand fashion. This girl you've been dealing with doesn't deserve the time of day, and you'd be foolish to continue with her.
I've been around this hobby too long to think otherwise. But thanks for watching out for my feelings anyway.
Joe, it's all been said by all your colleague hobbyists. You can easily search around on the boards....even a new posting (separate from this thread) soliciting for a regular provider would probably elicit a fair amount of responses from the lovely providers out there who are looking for a decent regular like yourself. Your 'needs' are not difficult to accommodate.
It's time to break off the relationship, such as it is!
If you feel like you deserve a discount at this point ask for it. Never just short a lady and assume you don't have to mention it. When a providers is in this business she has to set certain boundaries for herself, as with anyone running their own business. For Example, not dating clients in their personal life, and not answering very personal questions about themselves. You have to set boundaries or you'll get walked on, thats what causes ladies to become jaded. I've heard of situations where even the most regular of clients have stolen money, or property and never returned. Those of you that own or manage a business should know very well if a person you do business with on a regular basis shorted you on your fee, without a mention of it, you would surely be offended.
To recap, I'm a weekly regular for four months. As in, I've been doing $300+ weekly sessions for 12 weeks. As in, $3,600+. And she's steamed that I owe her... $25???? Being this type of regular, I sort of figured I'd be grandfathered under the old rate -- since even at the old rate on a weekly basis I'm worth more to her than a monthly or bi-monthly regular at the new rate. I've been in this hobby too long to EVER knowingly short a lady!
It's the feeling of it being taken for granted that it would be OK, I deeply believe you meant no harm. But I would guess she really didn't know what to think of it thats why she called you on it.
not the provider. If you want to get really technical about it then she should not have taken up a half hour's worth of time on his dime.
And if she considered him to be a "regular" then she should cut him some slack and (if she were REALLY bothered by the $25) she should ask if she didn't take care of him properly - or was there a misunderstanding and then explain about the cash. Her reaction was that of a spolied brat...
I can probably think of a hundred providers right on this local board who would "LOVE" to have a client like this... Don't you think?
Don't get your panties in a bunch. I never said he did anything wrong nor did I say she was in the right. He asked for our advice or opinion on the situation he presented. Which was that he gave her $25 less than she thought she deserved which technically was shorting her, whether he meant to do it or not. I also suggested that he ask her for the discount since he made it clear he wants to continue seeing her. Better yet go explore the great variety that this hobby has to offer.
IMO a client that sees a woman on a regular basis (I consider regular as once a month, a weekely regular should imo get alot of consideration) should be able to get the "grandfather clause" meaning that you shouldn't have to pay the higher rate.
Guys you need to keep in mind that agencies (and also some indies) dont care if the girl talked your ear off throughout the session. They just want to get paid for their time. Funny thing is these are usually the same places or people that after you pop tend to end the session and not offer another cup.
I'm not saying this is right, but it's just the way it is.
Now as an indie I realise why someone is coming to see me and it's not so they can give me advice about my problems. There is always some "downtime" usually between cups when there is time for conversation, but thats not the purpous of the visit and we need to keep this in mind. I'm known as a chatty provider but I do know when to shut my yap and get down to the nitty gritty! Not to mention I've never had someone complain that I talked too much and did too little of the other stuff (2-3 cups tends to make a man content!lol)
IMO they never should have called a man that comes every week and sometimes more than that for a measily $25. It's not like your someone they thought they'd never see again, but who knows maybe now because of their pettyness they won't see you again.
You need to decide for yourself is this woman's sessions worth what she is now asking for her fee, and would you rather just stick with what is familiar even though they raised their rates to all clients even weekly regulars and had the audacity to complain about $25 when I'm certain in the long run they are coming out way ahead. Especially since this could have been broached when you next came for a session and been brought to your attention ahead of time.
There is a big difference between someone visiting for a first time (and possibly a last time) shorting a provider her fee, and a weekly client who has been paying the reg rate for months being $25 short because he didnt know.
Just running my yap as usual lol
-- Modified on 6/15/2004 12:23:24 PM
Especially the part about a "regular" is a once-a-month guy, and a once-a-week guy is in a whole different category.
she's indy -- not an agency, so it's not like the $25 she's looking for is an amount she had to make up to an agency.
Rather than give advice, let me recite my experience as a "regular". And let me hasten to add that I was never, ever, ever, as loyal a regular as you were--either moneywise or frequency. With a delicious independent, after the second session, we went delightfully over the one hour limit as she gave me BBBJ and we listened to French Jazz on her CD one rainy Sunday afternoon. She routinely gave me a discount when she increased her rates--dramatically and over a period of weeks. She now charges twice--$400 per hour--what I used to pay her. After a long hiatus, I went back to see her and she laughed off her new rate for me and said that $500 for two hours would be fine.
Next, two Julie's girls: The first, Bridgette-no longer there, instead of charging her rate of $250/hour, waived off the additional money for being private stock because her rate was incorrectly posted on the website. And when I came back the next week, and went to pay the previous session's shortfall amount, she waived that off and we spent closer to two hours at the new rate, when I only paid for one hour--and I wasn't really a regular--we just hit it off. The second currently works at Julie's, so I won't mention her name, but I see her regularly and when I almost didn't have enough for the one hour session in cash she told me to forget it--she thought I didn't have any money and told me to make up for it when I saw her again. And this was after just four sessions.
So, now I'm afraid that first timers will want the benefits I've set out above, so , ladies, I apologize in advance, but for you, Joercny, fella, forget her, find someone new. Not even as someone going back a SECOND time should you feel gypped over $25.
So, if you didn't have that kind of relationship--forget it.
At the least, you should be grandfathered the rate you were previously seeing her at.
Based on what you've said about her phone call to you, I would find another lady who will appreciate you and your friendship... especially if she is not willing to allow you favored status.
xoxo,
Sola
Its always about the money.....feeling are always a distant second. Sometimes you get caught up in the relationship as (GFE) GETTING FOOLED EASY but the MONEY is a wake up call.
A girl that makes you feel special and gives you great amounts of pleasure is doing what you've paid her to do. But joe I would encourage you to read some reviews and do some exploring with different girls, because it seems as though your getting too attached. For what your spending you'd be better off with a mistress or a slutty beauty school student that needs help with her tuition.
(that was intended to make you laugh)
Alexia, you were my first provider, so I hold you in high esteem--BUT, you are simply wrong on this issue and giving bad, bad advice to newbie providers. Regulars--who come back again and again--although, they tend to be middle-aged, so that they rarely come again and again, but never mind--regular customers DO NOT want to feel at all times that they've just gotten into a taxi cab with the meter running and the driver exasperated that the passenger can't see that the meter reads $10.80. Granted, a girl should be on-guard for a first time, or even second time customer. But if she is so obviously "on guard" against a regular who is clearly transferring emotions to the relationship, then she will have only a series of first-timers---never a good situation.
Joe asked hobbyist AND providers our opinion on his particular situation and I replied, so my opinion can't be "WRONG" because it's my opinion(and it comes from a knowledgable place). Also to say a woman should let her guard down after her first or second encounter with a client is absurd.
Since so few ladies express themselves (and I completely understand why) on this board I felt the need to give joe some insight or what it may have been. That's honesty! You'll never get anything less from me, as you already know.
On this board there are hobbyist and providers and we have a symbiotic relationship. We're the cookies to your milk. The rice to your beans. The Cher to your Sonny....LOL. We have a unique perspective as providers just as a hobbyist does.
P.S. A human being and a taxi do not make for a good metaphor
Yes...
this business is heavily intertwined with feelings, and they should be respected.
I understand what Alexia says about the lady possibly feeling taken for granted. This SHOULD have been clarified, and not just assumed. Grandfathering rates is a gift, and it should have been the ladies pleasure to offer it... not something that was assumed. Even with this, it sounds as if the lady was completely unprofessional, and should have handled it better.
In business the only people I have 'yelled at' were phone companies! (oh... and did that rep deserve it!)
Why would we do any less with the friends who support us?
In no uncertain terms should you expect a provider to treat you any different if you are a regular client. You should always pay her given rate and never expect her to charge you any less or offer you a discount. If she decides to do this, then it works out in your favor. You need to remember that these girls make a living by being providers. Think about how much money they would loose if they offered every guy some type of a discount. You are looking at the glass as half empty. You seem to think that because you see her every week, you should be treated differently then the next guy. I do not agree. If she is not seeing you, she would be seeing another client. If you don't want to pay her hourly rate,I am sure that she will be able to find some other guy that will.
As far as you listening to her for 30 minutes, why did you let her go that long? You need to cut her off and remind her the reason that you are there. You are as much to blame for that as she is.
If you ask her for a discount, there is always a good chance that she may tell you to go take a hike and she may never want to see you again. If saving $50 a session is that big of a deal, I guess you can take your chances. If I were you, I would just keep things as they are. Best of luck to you!
-- Modified on 6/15/2004 3:53:22 PM
-- Modified on 6/15/2004 3:55:25 PM
This is like any other business and a regular should be treated differently and specially. If you go to a restaurant on a regular basis they certainly will treat you royally if they have half a brain. So will a clothing store where you shell out big bucks on a regular basis and a car company where you keep coming back to buy or lease cars. It is common sense that one hand washes the other.
Joe, wake up and smell the roses. You should be treated specially and if she can't afford you that luxury then dump her and look elsewhere. She's not worth it. Don't minimize your worth in this "relationship". There are plenty of girls who can do the same thing she does, she doesn't have a patent on it.
I agree with you that the provider in question does not have a patent for what she is doing and he can look elsewhere. But, that works both ways. As a john we are also easily replaced. If a provider is not seeing us, then they would be seeing someone else. This is why I have a gripe with the fact that he wants a discount. I can't argue that she makes good money from him. The only thing I will argue is that if she was not taking his money, then she could(or would) be taking someone else'e money for her services. Why would she want to charge him $200 an hour, when she could charge another guy $250 for the same hour?
that's what being human and having a brain is all about. About making informed decisions based on the facts, to fit our needs.I personally would rather have a known entity (client) who I know is nice, clean, friendly, reliable and will return time and time again and have developed an exceptional rapport with, rather than an unknown who pays a little more and may be a one shot deal. Hey, but that's me and we are assuming she is human and has a brain. Maybe that's a wrong assumption.
When she becomes a streetwalker $25 will be her new rate.
Behavior like that is self centered and hopelessly stupid. Should you find that you are doing business with a manipulative idiot, in any situation not only this hobby, get out now and don't go back for seconds. If she has such little respect for you she could be capable of anything. There are types who have mastered the art of playing the victim. You will always be the problem, she will always be the victim, in her theatrics. If you call her on her game, she'll try and play you with drama. Lots of confusing drama. Men can't handle emotional drama well. It puts us on the defensive. Confusing. We throw money at it to make it go away. Be no fool, sir. Don't but the drama. Don't accept the disrespect. Leave while sanity is intact. Don't communicate with her. Don't ahswer her calls.
One of the most popular, beloved providers in the history of TER was my ATF. She never gamed me, hit me up for extra money, changed the rules, never, not once. Over time we became close friends. We travelled as friends, not as sex buddies or arm candy or any false pretenses like that. To this day she is scrupulously honest. She's never deceived me about anything or taken advantage of me in any way, not have I done that to her. There is a very large trust factor and mutual respect that makes our friendship work. I now trust her more than many of my straight world, so called reliable aquaintances.
Wake up, my friend. That is how it should be. If it isn't, something is rotten in Denmark as Hamlet would have said. Split. Go. Flee. Don't twiddle your thumbs and split hairs. You've got your warning signal. Pay attention to it.