Okay....has anyone ever been in the situation in which a provider begged him to do it sans condom....I am curious how common this is, and whether or not anyone has been daring enough to give it a shot... I have a standing offer from this one gal who swears I would be her only "client" to get this privelege, thus making it "safe." I haven't done it yet, but part of me is starting to say, "fuck it."

Matrix,

IMHO, the only swearing you could be getting truthfully would be one when your coffin is lowered 6 feet underground.

Some Pornstars that have shown me their 2-3 week old PCR/DNA HIV tests have asked me if I am able to show them my recent tests that they would be more than willing to do such thing. Even though I do test myself every two months for my own personal being I have refused to do such things because these tests are 99.9% accurate and it only takes for you to be in that .1% and you life is over.

What makes you think that proposition has ONLY been told to you? Even is she was clean and STD's did not existed you would have to watch out for getting her pregnant and if you did then your life would change dramatically not adding if you were married the consequences that this would put on your marriage.

IMHO, think with the head that has two eyes and has brought you thus far in life and I am positive you will make the right decision.

Peace,

Seth A/K/A The Doctor

No Way...No How...You have always got to keep your perpective in this hobby.

It can be easy to form a bond with a provider whom you have an ongoing relationship...but remember that as the Doctor said you are likely not the only customer to whom the offer has been extended.  And this is not your wife or girlfriend.  And certainly not an exclusive relationship.

Why take the risk?  I am sure this is no relevation to you.  And I am not trying to lecture you either...I know the temptation.  I have felt it...but keep it to BBBJs...just get creative to spice it up...have the provider bring some toys, etc...you will LIVE to appreciate the experiences.

Good for you. I say that if you are offered such a vaulable and personal service this is a testament to the value(not only monetary but emotional as well) and trust that you're provider has put in you. Remember, it also takes a great deal of trust on her part to give you permission to enter her sanctuary sans robe. If you decline to do so not only will you be insulting her, but also she will feel hurt. It is not often that any provider would offer such a service and maybe for your provider your relationship has crossed the provider/hobbiest line and has become something much more personal and intimate - I dare say even beautiful. Now my friend the ball is in your court, you can either throw away this precious opportunity or make it into something that will bring both you and her great joy and happiness.

-- Modified on 11/28/2001 2:23:26 PM

Are you kidding me????  Are you being sarcastic here?  If the relationship has crossed the provider/hobbiest line to something more personal and intimate, there would and should be far more signs than just an invitation to go sans robe.  Those other signs would make it clear and obvious that the relationship is something else, and would preclude the hobbiest from even having to ask this question.  If this is his only clue, then he should be very very wary.

Unfortunately, the word "sarcasm" is not in my vocabulary(it is, after all such a dirty word). But one word that is in my vocabulary is trust. I know that this is one word that is hard to come by in this day and age. But let me ask you, what has become of the olden days when courteseans made love to passionate youths, rather dying than give up their love. What has happened to the pure age when lovers were lovers? All I did is point out to Matrix that the act of love making is a dialectical act except for cases of autoeroticism and rape. Also, you musn't forget that Matrix never indicated that there weren't any other signals about his relationship crossing the hobbiest/provider line.
What other reason can there be for a provider to not want to use a condom? Lion, are you indicating that there may be some kind of malicious intent on the part of the provider by lying to matrix? If not, I cannot figure out a single other reason for her to do so except for the possibility that maybe she is in love. And if that is the case, there is no reason for matrix to not accept the provider/lovers offer.

Actually there are other signals, alhough none quite as radical as the no-condom option....

I appreciate all your responses....You are all definitely giving me food for thought. So far, other than the doc and his porn stars, it seems no one has ever received such a request from a provider...the rarity of my experience, I consider a good sign....if my "girlfriend" had extended the same offer to others, I am sure I would have heard something on this bulletin board (or via private email) by now.

Trust?

Let me ask a question, just as food for thought...

What percentage of the people in the world who have a life threatening STD would you say caught it via a sex act with someone they KNEW also had a life threatening STD?...what percentage do you think WERE TOLD in advance by their partner that there was a risk involved?

I am certain it is RARE. Most people who contract an STD do so from an infected person WITHOUT possessing the knowledge that they were infected.

While it is true that some people,in VERY SERIOUS,typically MONOGAMOUS, virtually ALWAYS LONG TERM relationships do indeed engage in sexual activity with an infected partner, I have never heard of this happening without protection.

Now,in Matrix case,without knowing him (or his "girlfriend") personally,I don't know how many of the above criteria might apply to their relationship. How "serious" he is about her...or she about him. I am ASSUMING they out have known each other for quite awhile but, I personally would not define a "long term relationship" as one where you have seen a person,say, once a month for three years. That means you have about 30 days of relationship time, not 3 years. And,I think it is also reasonable to assume that Matrix "girlfriend" is not monogamous.

Now, let take off the table the she has any ill intent. Though that is a specter of possibility...I will assume she...and most of those who pass on an STD...do NOT know they have it when the transmission occurs.

This still leaves the question of WHY does she want to do this? If it is in the interest of "kink",hell the LEAST kinky thing you can do with your spunk is deposit it where it was intended. If she says she doesn't like condoms, then this makes me REALLY doubt if Matrix is the only regular john to have received this proposal. If it is to create a "bond", beyond the one that exists when two people simply enjoy each others company and know how to please each other, I would say at least one person has lost their perspective...and if he takes her up on the offer, they BOTH have. That would deeply concern me as well.

So, without knowing the WHY, there simply appears to be too much risk here...too many unknowns.

And when you are talking about risks, think about this. Every time you have sex with someone, even protected, you are taking on a risk. The presumption is that the protection reduces this risk dramatically. However, NO CONDOM MAKER has EVER claimed that condoms ABSOLUTELY PREVENT the spread of STDs. They reduce the risk, but the only SURE prevention is abstinence. In labs, the effectiveness is so high as to be virtually certain...but it is not 100%. In the real world, misuse, slippage, splillage, breakage...etc...reduce that effectiveness considerably. However, in the real world, we like / want / need sex, so we take that risk.

That risk however assumes some things, like reasonable knowledge of your partner, and reasonable frequency of intercourse. In the case of Matrix GF, we can assume that A) She probably does NOT possess reasonable knowledge of all her partners, past and present  & B) she has sex ALOT more often than the typical female.

Thus, she is MUCH more likely, simply statistically speaking, to have an STD, whether she knows it or not. This isn't a judgment of her....this would be an undeniable fact for ALL Escorts.

Of course, it could be that she gets tested often, which would be prudent. Does Matrix know this is the case? Has he seen the test results? How old are they? If she gets tested at any frequency less than once a day, there is risk. She might have contracted something since her last test, and as an Escort, we can assume she has had sex since her last test.

I am not being judgmental here. As hobbyist, we ALL assume the risks above. It is a choice that is made for reasons that only each man can speak to for himself. Consciously, or sub consciously we weigh those risks against the added protection that a condom provides and go forward. Hell, you could make a strong case that there is less risk involved in protected sex with an upscale, discreet, careful Escort, who gives every indication that she demands protected sex 100% of the time, than there is associated with the unprotected sex a guy might have with his steady girlfriend.

BUT, take off the condom, and ALL of that goes out the window. No matter how nice she is, how much you like her, how much she likes you, how well you think you know HER, you are now having unprotected sex with someone who you know often has sex with people she hardly knows. And the fact that she is asking YOU to go condom free doesn't bode well for the "demands protected sex 100% of the time" now does it?

Bottom line - this is crazy. And anyone who would think different more than a second really needs to take a break from the "hobby" and check his or her perspective.

"what has become of the olden days ..."

Communicable STDS....some of which are life threatening....others of which cause the body irreparable harm...most of which can't be detected in a sexual partner via casual examination....

My dear friend, it must be sad to live life in the shoes of one so paranoid and untrusting. Although mistrust is part of human nature, there comes a point in our lives when we must make that giant leap into the unknown that we are all so afraid to take. As you well know, life is full of risks. The chaos and cacaphony of this world may scare us into living a life of apprehension and timidness but this is understandable. It is a sad fact of life that many of us go through the daily motions of existence without peace in our souls and gladness in our hearts. Well, I can't tell you that everything will be alright or that you should change, because I know that it is easier said than done. But I'd like to say this. It will be better for all of us when we accept what fruits that fate may bestow upon us with a resignated smile and a sigh. For you see, the more we struggle, the more we suffer like a chinese finger puzzle that will never let go but will only increase it's pressure the more you try to break free. I myself have been pursuing this hobby for some thirty-eight years now and have been lucky enough to have dodged the bullets of disease. But I know that this could change at any time and I am willing to accept that fact. So why not quit this hobby you ask? Well, at my age and condition I could drop dead of a heart attack at this very moment. So why not die doing something that I love? We all live to die don't we?
Anyways, forgive an old man's senile illusion of wisdom and don't mind this rant. It may be my last. And take heart my friend, life isn't all that bad.

No AIDS....No Herpes...and shorter lIfe expectancies..which of course meant lower expectations...

Of course...they also didn't KNOW of many of the health risks they were taking....they took illiness for granted, as a reality of life itself.

If you HAD no choice...risk vs. celebacy...then naturally most men (including me) would chose risk...to live life with a certain joi de vive as you suggest in your other post. Easier to do in the 18th century, when a man may not have expected to live past the age of 45 in any regard.

Today, we have far deadlier maladies to fear that can be transmitted via STDs, and far more life to look forward to. There is a higher quality of life to enjoy (not much in the way of "distractions" beyond sex in the 18th century) and posses greater knowledge of how to help insure that we can stay alive to experience them.

We now HAVE things like modern latex condoms. So....what is the rational arguement for not using them?

A foolish risk you suggest....one that might gain a day's pleasure inexchange for a lifetime of regret..

matrix i admire and read your reviews   but this is dumb  she is still making you pay    how much can she be into you if you are still paying   just wear the rubber and stop trying to brag  these people are called whores for a reason

I think you are missing another important point. If he is the only one(yeah Right) he could be being set up for a messy pregnancy situation. It happened to a friend of mine and he was extorted for 10K and who know if he was the guy.