CP and KE along with eight other customers were charged with "promoting prostitution" felony by posting reviews on a review board that was shut down by the FBI in January 2016.
Both CP and KE have not yet pled. The trial has been continued numerous times and is now continued to 9/11/2017 in King County Superior Court. The other eight from court records appear to have taken felony plea deals and sentenced in late 2016. KIRO7 did a feature interviewing sexworkers who told how shutting down the website results in more risk to sex workers since it was described as a "safety net". "The city of Seattle received a $1.5 million grant to help end "modern-day slavery." Although it appears all were consenting adults. Arizona has a similar felony law for promoting or assisting. Our tax dollars at work for the anti-sexwork agenda vs. a harm reduction model in Canada and other countries.were trafficked. The willing girls on TER is unfortunately a small percentage of the sex workers out there. Most of them are either trafficked or desperate in poverty. Sorry, but those are the facts.
were trafficked. The willing girls on TER is unfortunately a small percentage of the sex workers out there. Most of them are either trafficked or desperate in poverty. Sorry, but those are the facts.
Look Dave, I've been around these women for 20 or so years. I know their stories. The stuff they don't tell you. You fuck them. You don't KNOW them, and they aren't going to tell you what's up. Most of these girls have pimps. Most of them have drug problems. The foreign women here are mostly trafficked in. They aren't going to tell you that, because they or their families will be killed. I know this. I've worked with them. I'm even taking a risk by saying this and so are most of the detectives and LE that go after them. These are huge networks of organized crime that will kill people if necessary to keep someone quiet. I know women who have escaped from them. I grown up in a big city and seen women and girls getting pimped ever since I was a runaway teen. The truth ISN'T pretty, but it is the truth. I wish these women did have control over their bodies and could do what they were comfortable with, but they don't. The average age a girl enters into prostitution is 13 or 14. As soon as I got off the bus at 15 in Port Authority in NYC, I was approached by more pimps that I could shake a stick at. Of course, you get the violent gorilla pimps dressed in cheesy suits, but most of them don't come off that way. They will offer to buy you a meal and "take care of" you. I know you are trying to support willing sex workers and I applaud you for that. But you need to know the truth. I've worked in agencies, brothels, strip clubs, massage parlours and as an independent. The sad story is always the same. Drugs, pimps, poverty and desperation. Sorry, but that's just the way it is.
Yes in NYC there was a huge problem at least decades ago. I worked with Al Palmquist (minister and vice cop) in Minneapolis that ran a rescue (Midwest Challange) and wrote the book "The Minnesota Connection" and the movie. The selling of street gals from Minneapolis (Hennepin Ave) to NY City pimps and his group going to NY and rescuing them.
None of the Seattle bust, or the 100+ cases I follow in Superior Court have anything to do with real pimps and trafficking. It is an overhyped fantasy that all sexworkers have pimps etc. That may be the case with street work, but that is not what the boards are about.
So, yes it does happen but rare and mostly related to street work, not often with professional sex work these boards (unlike BP) are about.
BTW, I am not a client other than legal companionship in Canada. I have hosted the Phoenix Private list since 1998 with many escorts many of which I have been personal friends with not as a customer. Currently, have 350 gals in Phoenix sharing info (no cost) and none of them have pimps or are coerced.
I have been around these women for twice as long as you and most likely have know twenty times as many of them, and not just as a customer,
Yes, runaways that head to the "big city" as young teens are quite often pimped and abused, but that's not the TER world, nor is it how most AMPs, agencies or especially independents work in the overwhelming percentage of our world.
I too grew up in the big city and I have been around hookers, pimps, junkies and thieves since even before I was on my own at age 14. This "war" on human trafficking is more oppressive to the consenting adults just trying to make a living than any army of pimps. Sorry to ruin such a heart wrenching story, but that's just the way it is.
Quite frankly I find your post quite insulting to all the women of TER who are not drug users, pimped, in poverty or desperate. I also find it insulting personally that a white woman can claim to know that most of the foreign women are trafficked. I've known literally HUNDREDS of foreign providers, almost everyone of them were here to make a better life for themselves and with few exceptions that is exactly what they were doing.
I am sorry your life seems to have sucked, but don't try to speak for all the thousands of other women who are doing this completely of their own free will.
First off, GaG, you don't know me or how long I've been around. Second, just because you FUCK sex workers doesn't mean you know them. Of course, they are going to show you the side that they want you to see. You are, after all, the client. You don't know anything about these women.
Most women caught in systems of prostitution started out around 13 or 14 and had a pimp. Now, if they are 30 or so, they probably don't have a pimp anymore. But how do you think they got started? Most agencies, amps or whatever you want to call it have trafficked women or women working there who have no viable options. You are acting like just because it's not on a street corner that it isn't abuse. Most prostituted women don't work on the street. It doesn't mean they aren't trafficked or have drug problems. I don't know how you can say these women are consenting to fucking you when most of them are in desperation for food to eat or to get their next fix. If you want to lie to yourself and tell yourself that, that's fine. But facts don't lie. Go to any place that helps women out of the industry. Go to any ex-sex worker. Go to any person who does actual REAL research on the subject if you don't believe me.
So now, you're going to try to the turn this around by saying you're insulted?? Wow, that's too funny. If anything, the poor foreign women are the ones who should be insulted. Better yet, it would be great if they could put people like those abusive guys that force them to have sex in prison. Now, that would be justice. And no, those foreign providers you have seen aren't going to say shit to you about being trafficked, because they don't want their families dead. I can't believe someone as old as you is that naive. As far as TER women?? That's a pretty broad brush. There are all kinds of women on here. Some trafficked, some not. You wouldn't know the difference, trust me.
Sorry to bust your fantasy, but don't talk about my life being miserable when you've never even met me. It's far from it. I live a very good life, because of my resourcefulness and ability to get business from a variety of sources. I also have a regular job, so I'm not dependent on abusive clients or pimps for my money.
These "poor foreign women" are often anything but. As a white person you probably think that if a AMP girl is sleeping at the spa that she must be trafficked, right?
As usual you would be completely wrong of course, one of my ex GF's who worked at an AMP had a very nice apartment no more than 20 minutes from "work" but she still spent about 6 nights a week sleeping at the spa so she could sleep in an extra hour or so each morning since the spa opened at 7 AM and she almost always had an appointment right at 7.
Like most dumb, racist, clueless white people you probably also think that not sleeping on an actual bed is also a "hardship" that only comes from being a sex slave too, or that they are FORCED to pile into a single room to sleep together. That is simply ignorance on your part of Asian culture. I used to go to casinos all the time with mainly an Asian crowd, and except for the "couples" who wanted some privacy everyone else would pile into a single room even though the casinos would have given us a dozen free rooms if we had asked for them.
I guarantee you I know more Asian sex workers than you, and I don't know them simply as a customer, I have either dated, socialized with, or simply been friends with literally hundreds of Asian sex workers and I can absolutely guarantee you NONE of them were sex slaves or anyway else being coerced to do what they were doing, unless you consider making ten times more here than they could at home being "coerced"
If all these women are so abused then just why do they fight so hard to come back? Coming to this country for several months can be a life changing opportunity for many of these young women, allowing them to buy a home or business when they get back home. Quit pissing on their parade.
Why do you keep assuming that I'm white when I'm mixed? I, too, have worked in AMP and around Asian sex workers. Have you ever heard of the term "debt bondage"? Look it up. How do you know the apartment is her's and not owned by the spa? They are friends/girlfriends with you most likely to get more money out of you or to help them get out of the industry. Once they realize you aren't down for that, they leave. As you said, EX-girlfriend. lol
It sounds to me like you are the racist one since you keep generalizing about all Asian sex workers. I said foreign, not Asian. There are foreign women being trafficked from Russia and Eastern Europe. And, they are white in case you forgot.
Another View,
I am sorry this post is late. It took me a few hours to write and check over few days.
So far I am what I think the only interested party to claims being made. I am a foreign provider. I was a provider before I came to the US and continue to be a provider since I got here. So allow me give insight to "trafficked sex workers".
Of course there are trafficked sex worker. And of course there are risks being a sex worker. There will always be people who are taken advantage of by other people no matter what work or social standing. There are just many sex workers being trafficked as there are people in normal jobs being taken advantage of.
My entry into sex work is a long, sometimes funny and maybe kinky story. It is personal, has nothing to do with drugs, violence, poverty, hunger or debt. Going into detail here would seem more like advertisement and thats not what I want to explain. For sake of argument just say I am happy, normal and love sex, the rest can stay my private personal history.
Sex work for me, and the MANY personal sex work friends in two different foreign countries I know was never pimped or forced. Please don't tell my story, you have not lived it. You have not experienced it and like each person you have your own interpretations of things people have told you.
Just because girls like me come from poor (by american standards) families, or even no families, not all of us are stupid. We clearly see that being a domestic housekeeper for a rich family, has no future. Don't think that we don't understand the difference between buying foods for a days meal and buying foods for a weeks meals are not the same. Some of us know that if you live day to day there is no future. Being a sex worker provides a much higher income than entry level basic college degree in many times. Its a job. In some countries its legal job. In some countries its not legal but is overlooked.
I have choice. Just like every other sex worker I have in fact many choice. I could sit back and let someone control my business. I could sit back let someone control my finances. I could stand up and control both. Of course some sex workers have been taken advantage of. But if they want they have many opportunities to either avoid this or change this.
Being a provider enable me to create a possible future. It enable me to afford a small condo, very basic in my country. its not even as nice a condo as most hotels I provide in, but its mine and its solid and safe. It enable me to travel to other countries (on my own) to learn and interact in different culture. It also enable me to come to US. Now it enable me to travel back to my home and visit and return again. It enable me go more school and learn another culture. This is a freedom many here do not understand or even comprehend. Do you think all of these trafficked agency sex workers can not look out window and see that life is different and that its possible to have more? Do you think they are so stupid that they cant figure out how to go out on their own if they want?
I know personally many sex workers. They live at home with their families for the most part. Their families know what they do mostly, but the story is always a different hidden excuse. None of them were abused. None of them were raped as children or adults. All of them choose to provide as its a steady income far more than they normally can make. They support parents, brothers, sisters even their own families.
There will always be foreign sex workers who have a debt bondage. You make that term sound horrible. I can tell you that even as child we are taught about debt bondage. What people want to call debt bondage is in most countries call a loan. Some workers cannot afford to start as independents. And so some "pimp" says I can help you but it has a cost. Nobody forces her to accpet that "loan" and yes it must be paid back. Do you again think foreign sex workers so stupid they don't understand this? We know its a loan, we know it must be paid back. And we know its usually a stupid amount of payment. But for many its their only way to begin path to get from nothing to something.
Here is my point to shorten this. I am a foreign born and raised, also a sex worker. I was never forced, never abused and can stop anytime want if I choose to change the level of my lifestyle. I don't do drugs, and I don't steal. I don't give money to a pimp and have never been in "debt bondage". I budget my life style to help provide my future. Finally, I know MANY others just like me to a degree. What I don't know is anyone has a pimp or works in a bar that cant simply walk away. I have lived and continue to live this life. If you have not then you cant put or group all into an abused and trafficked cloud.
Am I proud that I sell my body and my time, not really. But I am proud that I bring a higher future than not and that I can send money to my family when they fall short. I am proud that I build a future and that while shy, I am a fun happy person to know. And I certainly not depressed or have negative thoughts because I am a sex worker.
Just my opinion. We are not al trafficked and we are not all abused any more than anyone else.
Christine
Debt bondage isn't horrible?? A loan? Denial is not a river in Egypt. That's all I say. Can't help those who don't want to help themselves. There is help for foreign women caught up in systems of prostitution in the USA. You can find them on the polaris.org website.
Brie,
I am not saying your wrong, in fact part of what you say is correct. There is help for those who want help. You are the perfect example, you are not trafficked. What make you think foreign providers cant be as free and smart and at least as successful as you?
What I am also saying is that MOST or MANY don't want help. They don't need help. And until you live the life of one such, you have no right to say we are ALL trafficked, that we are governed by debt bondage. That we are controlled and pimp out.
You ran away to NYC, wow. I was raised in Manila. Make NYC look like resort. 5 million more people in far less space. Every cop is corrupt. Everyone that can take advantage of person does for their own survival. The poor eat rats if they eat at all sometimes. You wont find stray cat in Manila, they are more tender than dog when in stew. Woman give birth at home for the most part, never see doctors. Some live 10-15 to a room day by day. Selling their things in the morning to buy food to eat only to buy them again that night after they make some money. I was not raised in those hardship, but many of my friends were. Some still are. Denial is not a river in Egypt? The Pasig is a river in Manila, every day they have to fish around raw sewage to get dead drug dealers and addicts out of the water. Come live our life, then tell us we are trafficked just because we are a provider. Tell us that the ONLY choice we can make to be a provider is to be trafficked?
When you are a foreign provider and come to the US as a foreign provider, then you can tell us how bad it is. You read the stories that get placed in the news and the interviews of people who have "escaped". Keep two things in mind. First, without horror story those organizations get no money for their administrators to get paid. And second, as I just recently said, 3 sides to every story. My side, your side and then the truth. I think there is truth in what we both say, even we don't completely agree.
Christine
Look, I'm not here to argue with you Christina. Keep doing what you're doing if it's so great. Why argue then? You pretty agreed with everything I said in your Manila horror story post without realizing it. BTW, NYC is just as gritty. Just because it's in America don't mean shit. People live in abandoned buildings here too and dumpster dive for food. Get over it. And you have to have LOTS OF MONEY to get any decent health care..
What you mistakenly call "trafficked", the girls themselves call opportunity. An opportunity of a lifetime for some.
Your idea of "saving someone" is to put them out of work and force them into to doing menial dead end work. Do you have any idea just how hard some of these girls have to work just to get the opportunity to do what they are doing? The money some of these foreign women can make in just a few months is more than they could make in years back in their home countries. Get it through your thick head, they don't want to be rescued. Just like people don't necessarily want to be "saved" by Jesus. I don't know what it is about mainly white people, but they seem to find victims under every rock.
Poverty in this country is NOTHING like poverty in any third world country, and NYC is nowhere near as gritty. Like most Americans, you have no idea what the rest of the world is like. Do yourself and us a favor, go get a passport fly to Manila, or San Salvador, or Venezuela or any one of a hundred different countries and see for yourself just what real poverty is like before running your mouth about how bad it is in NYC or Tampa, there is just no comparison.
-- Modified on 8/2/2017 11:31:13 PM
There are way too many cats in Maricopa County creeping around at night. Would be good if people could stew some of them up at least.
Brie,
I am not saying your wrong, in fact part of what you say is correct. There is help for those who want help. You are the perfect example, you are not trafficked. What make you think foreign providers cant be as free and smart and at least as successful as you?
What I am also saying is that MOST or MANY don't want help. They don't need help. And until you live the life of one such, you have no right to say we are ALL trafficked, that we are governed by debt bondage. That we are controlled and pimp out.
You ran away to NYC, wow. I was raised in Manila. Make NYC look like resort. 5 million more people in far less space. Every cop is corrupt. Everyone that can take advantage of person does for their own survival. The poor eat rats if they eat at all sometimes. You wont find stray cat in Manila, they are more tender than dog when in stew. Woman give birth at home for the most part, never see doctors. Some live 10-15 to a room day by day. Selling their things in the morning to buy food to eat only to buy them again that night after they make some money. I was not raised in those hardship, but many of my friends were. Some still are. Denial is not a river in Egypt? The Pasig is a river in Manila, every day they have to fish around raw sewage to get dead drug dealers and addicts out of the water. Come live our life, then tell us we are trafficked just because we are a provider. Tell us that the ONLY choice we can make to be a provider is to be trafficked?
When you are a foreign provider and come to the US as a foreign provider, then you can tell us how bad it is. You read the stories that get placed in the news and the interviews of people who have "escaped". Keep two things in mind. First, without horror story those organizations get no money for their administrators to get paid. And second, as I just recently said, 3 sides to every story. My side, your side and then the truth. I think there is truth in what we both say, even we don't completely agree.
Christine
Drugs pimps and etc ? Really ?? And you're a woman who is a provider saying this ???? You're a joke !!!!
And you're wrong ! I have NO PIMP NEVER HAVE I HAVE NO DRUG PROBLEMS HABITS IN FACT I DONT EVEN SMOKE WEED ! So for you to make those claims are pretty downgrading and messed up
Many trafficking and rescue organizations exploit sex workers who have been arrested. They highlight the few rare horrific stories of abuse and exploitation for their fundraising campaigns. They create hysteria about phantom pimps and traffickers that rarely exist, while they profit off the criminalization of sex workers.
In Seattle the prosecutor who is heavily monetized by Demand Abolition gave a recent webinar to the "Rescue Industry." Included within the transcription the prosecutor said the following:
- A local message board (similar to TER) holds content that is both toxic and horrifying.
- The practice often spoken of here is on the spectrum between violence against women and rape.
Also, a "Survivor" recently posted another of her stories from a decade ago as an editorial on Crosscut.com, a local news outlet. She wrote that she was covered in bruises before her first shift ended a few hours later.
http://crosscut.com/2017/07/seattle-prostitution-survivor-violence-police-sting/
Clearly, the next step is to up the charges for clients of sex workers to the status of rape and politicians who support sex work are rare. I can provide links if anyone is interested.
Weird times.