That claim about selling to the "shiny new start up" makes no sense to me at all. Given that and you're posting under an alias with one post total I have to say I highly discount your claims of knowledge here -- especially with the "not speculative . . . somewhat known" You either have knowledge or not.
Again, this was not about what decision people should make for themselves but about just what the real risk versus the perceived risk really are.
So I'll ask a bit more clearly (seems like only one person actually understood the core question being asked). Does anyone have any examples of someone getting burned by the agency having been provided with PII either through the actions of the agency itself or due to a legal seizure of computers or request from the ISP/hosting company?
If no one has several examples of such problems arising I'd suggest the fears here are more like being scared of the dark (it's an unknown so risk averse will avoid) that actually introducing any really additional risk. ALL the risk seems to come during the actual visit and exchange. At that point what the agency has about you just doesn't matter.
But, again, everyone should do what keeps them comfortable and able to sleep at night.
I never believe agencies, or independents, for that matter, when they say they delete your PII after screening. However, recently, an agency caused me to suspend the narrative I'd constructed about them holding onto my information securely. On my past two visits with different girls at this agency, which I've visited many times before without incidence, the girls already knew my first name, on my first visit with them. The only explanation I can think of for this is that the agency provides them your DL to verify your identity when they open the door and they memorize your name or they're just given your name so that they can provide better "customer service". If it's the latter, I'd think it a bit disconcerting that that decision is not left up to the monger.
Think of them like Google. Everything they know about you is kept & catalogued. It's a smart business decision for them and a big risk for you.
I think unless you have some concrete evidence to offer or are actually working with more than one of the agencies answers are purely speculative. I think they will tend to reflect the fears/risk profile of the person responding.
But I am curious about the responses. If they absolutely do and it's really a big risk why hasn't this shown itself to be a bigger problem than it has been?
As for it being disconcerting that your name is provided to the girl so she can provide better service (honestly I've never had one try using my name to improve their service -- the ones that end up using my name are the ones I've seen many times and we have something of a personal professional relationship. In other words, some of the act is gone.)
But everyone has to find their own comfort zone so if this type of think is disturbing you can make the decisions and just not provide it, not be a patron of the agency that did this without your decision or simply start asking the booker to not provide your name or to provide a different name as an alias. For the last one you can change it every time if you want I suspect. But I do wonder just what people think that is protecting them from.
Among the emails seized when the websites were taken down by law enforcement in January 2016 were hundreds of pieces of identification submitted with the customers’ first request for a “date.” These included photographs of employee badges from Microsoft, Amazon and Boeing, as well as LinkedIn accounts, business letterheads, passports and even family photos.
“They’re sending their personal information to a criminal enterprise. Wow!” said Tor Kraft, one of the undercover Bellevue police detectives who worked the case.
This is from the infamous league bust.
It is a problem if the org gets busted.
Is there a way around it? Not sure.
Me, I don't send any of my personal info and I don't recommend anyone who has even an iota to lose. Don't use your info, don't use your real name unless it's super common. Dont send pics. They might take one of you (evidenced by org hall of shame which had living room cam as well as bedroom cam as well as peephole phone pics) without you knowing, but being extra careful is imperative. In case shit hits the fan, this way you can avoid it. Same reason I park far away, attend mostly at night in a fitted and a hoodie, and watch my back. Better safe than sorry.
-- Modified on 4/7/2021 11:29:26 AM
You might not be aware but ISP, and I believe US based mail hosting services, are required by Federal law to hold the logs (including the content of the mail) for 7 years for various legal related activities -- such as law enforcement investigations. So it's not even clear to me that the source or the emails was necessarily the agency based on your quote. So while that concern is valid for those that worry it's not at all clear it's a statement about the agency rather than the use of email or texts.
My question is more about just what damage was actually done. Did all those people get their information reported back to the company? To their family? Shamed in public releases?
I'm not telling anyone to do anything they don't want but asking about real damage from the claimed risks.
I'd also add that is one example from a group that seems to have included at least a few, shall we say, less than high wattage bulbs. Is that actually representative?
I'm aware of it, and hence use only things that are encrypted and not based in US. ProtonMail. VPNs that don't log. Telegram. Hell, even many agency sites are using hosting outside of US.
Yes, it is not clear where exactly the info was stored. But this story isn't exactly the only one of busted pii info making it to the feds hands.
I'm not sure for what kind of real damage you're asking evidence for. If your name is in the paper, for many mongers with SOs, aspiring careers and so forth, it's near damn game over. If not life breaking, it certainly is a life changing thing if you hide your mongering. Some executives were mentioned in that article. An arrest or even detainment is game over for many of them.
Now, yes, we don't know if any arrests were made via simply perusing pii info, but certainly it's not a good look for your info to be included anywhere near an illegal conspiracy. Even it's just being a consumer. I mean, ashley_madison pii leak ruined many a families. And they had many more reasons to protect the pii info.
If you're a big fish or a very high volume client, and especially if you're an insider promoting the girls, the feds might set their eyes on you during such a bust.
This isn't limited to orgs or agencies either, btw. I remember a thread in general discussion about a guy receiving a text/call from a provider whom he never contacted. And let's face it, as I always say, there's little integrity in this game. The POs and assistants don't exactly take the hippocratic oath to protecting your identity. There were cases of blackmail, bad actors using the info to harass (out) the BLd (and non-bld) persons and so forth.
Idk, I thought it'd be self-explanatory. You don't want to be on the ledger in a criminal investigation,especially if your input was significant. As we all know, people follow the money.
Maybe not high wattage, but Jensen, don't you know you were standing in the dim light those bulbs gave off?
Yes, I am aware of that aspect and certainly don't apply the comment to all. But clearly the way things seem to have played out it's clear it was a case of weakest links -- and it seems like there were more than just one.
The problem with having weakest links is that a system is only as secure as your weakest link 
I'll admit tho... not the brightest wattage is pretty mild term for what the league was doing out in the open.
They do retain your PII. Furthermore, they may occasionally sell their client catalog when the business exchanges hands and/ or to the shiny new upstart that wants to avoid the challenges of building out a robust client catalog from scratch.
Be wary of so readily handing over your PII to an illegal shadow business, of which you have no knowledge of the owner(s) or how they ensure data privacy.
This is not speculative. This is a somewhat known occurrence.
-- Modified on 4/7/2021 11:26:44 AM
That claim about selling to the "shiny new start up" makes no sense to me at all. Given that and you're posting under an alias with one post total I have to say I highly discount your claims of knowledge here -- especially with the "not speculative . . . somewhat known" You either have knowledge or not.
Again, this was not about what decision people should make for themselves but about just what the real risk versus the perceived risk really are.
So I'll ask a bit more clearly (seems like only one person actually understood the core question being asked). Does anyone have any examples of someone getting burned by the agency having been provided with PII either through the actions of the agency itself or due to a legal seizure of computers or request from the ISP/hosting company?
If no one has several examples of such problems arising I'd suggest the fears here are more like being scared of the dark (it's an unknown so risk averse will avoid) that actually introducing any really additional risk. ALL the risk seems to come during the actual visit and exchange. At that point what the agency has about you just doesn't matter.
But, again, everyone should do what keeps them comfortable and able to sleep at night.
HIS question was not "has anyone been damaged?", his question was if it was/is common practice for independents/agencies to keep your 411 after screening. And the answer to THAT question is an easy one, Of course they do. I know a lot of independent hookers and a lot of agency owners and I know this for a fact.
As for YOUR question "has anyone been damaged" I am way too lazy to did up the cases, but there have been many cases where a hookers "little black book" has ended up in the hands of LE. I remember one of the worst cases was in your neck of the woods a few years back when we lost dozens of TER members due to the very real fear they had about their personal info being in the hands of LE. I believe TER's most prolific reviewer ended up getting caught up in that mess, never to be heard from on TER ever again.
Personally I sleep fine at night despite my name being in probably dozens of "little black books" but then again I am blackmail proof, my sleep would probably be much less restful if I had anything to lose by being outed as the whore mongering pig that I am. lol
an Indie turning me over to LE than an agency. That's why I limit myself to a little over a dozen a year.
Exactly,GaG. Well, besides the last paragraph - I wish I had nothing to lose like you. Lol.
The info is kept. And pii info of someone can be used and misused in many ways. Or used to protect from bad actors and their actions. But, the main thing that it is kept and can be used against you.
The question in the OP had nothing to do with them keeping or deleting the info.
"I never believe agencies, or independents, for that matter, when they say they delete your PII after screening. However, recently, an agency caused me to suspend the narrative I'd constructed about them holding onto my information securely. On my past two visits with different girls at this agency, which I've visited many times before without incidence, the girls already knew my first name, on my first visit with them. The only explanation I can think of for this is that the agency provides them your DL to verify your identity when they open the door and they memorize your name or they're just given your name so that they can provide better "customer service". If it's the latter, I'd think it a bit disconcerting that that decision is not left up to the monger. "
Seems the last sentence is the core "question" being implied. Should the agency give the provider some means of confirming you are the person that was screened or give them your name to make it a more personal service experience?
Since here the question of PII being kept by the agency is already a "given" I think my question probably applies even more. Just what harm is anyone expecting from the girl knowing your name -- or having seen whatever pic of your ID you sent in?
But, I agree, if you are a person that has lots to loose just because someone can connect you to some P4P activities without any proof you have actually engaged in it you should be very careful. I just don't think that type of person is your typical monger profile. LE is not going to publish a list of names they found in some client DB unless they are ready to charge everyone they publicly disclosed. That's not going to happen unless they have more than just the screening info.
As for the high volume reviewer, I don't think the issue was a name in the DB but rather that the significant reviews opened him (whoever it was) up to promoting the business and so to charges of trafficking -- at least for some news coverage before it gets dropped. But seems to me that that line of thinking leads to a no review policy rather than excessive concern about screening data for your average Joe.
I think there's some middle ground between a no review policy and having like 300-400 reviews. But having this many reviews does get you noticed by people you might not want to be noticed by.
Submitted for your consideration and approval...
It was 1988 when I first provided my CADL to join an org. It was called The Golden Gypsy. I was informed that I needed to allow management to photocopy my CADL in order to be a patron. I should Google when they got busted and shut down by LE. Anyhow, I didn't get a call or knock on my door from LE; I assume my ID along with a 1,000 other Berkeley mongers were seized by LE.
I'm a full disclosure monger in the Bay Area kgirl scene. For a new org, I'll send a hello text with a selfie and my name. I'm high profile in RL so I'm easy to look up. I also have at least three bookers who'll vouch for me.
YEMV
I went to Vegas to sample their agency girls for the first time. Since I was new, they wanted a copy of my drivers license sent from the hotel fax machine. I asked why, and they said it was so they know I'm not LE, so I copied CADL, took a Sharpie marker, and blacked out everything except for my photo, my first name and age, height, weight and eye color. The booker texted me back and said I needed to send it without the redactions. I told him that HE said the purpose was to prove I'm not local LE. I said its a California DL with my photo on it, so doesn't that prove I'm not a local Clark County Constable? How could any of the other information, like my street address, prove it any more than I already have? I told him to text my photo to the girl, and tell her if I'm not the guy in the photo when she looks through the peephole, don't open the door. He said he would get back to me, and an hour later, he texted and told me if I still wanted the appointment, I was approved.
I have done the redacted DL with a few indies as well. It works better in other states than in California, because its a California license.
Usually, I just text the booker my photo. And then tell him/her to check my reference(s).
Never had any issues. Never sent anything other than that and, once told them my age. Nothing more than that has been needed for 15 years back. Maybe longer. But that’s as far as I can specifically recall.
As you, CDL, and I think others, have mentioned. With a good reference you don’t need much more.
I will say that all of my references have been the girls I have seen. When I asked if they wanted a booker’s name (because a few mongers tried to convince me that was what I needed at one point), I was asked “so, you want an appointment with a booker?”. I never did that again.
Almost forgot. A couple of times I photocopied my employee badge with just the company name and my picture. But that was for non-kgirl indies back when you couldn’t find my picture on my company website.
-- Modified on 4/7/2021 4:21:14 PM
In the northeast, I assume that everyone (AMPs, KMPs, agencies, indies) keep some Personally Identifiable Info (PII) which is why I don't share a lot. Everyone pretty much has my hobby phone #, my hobby name, and my hobby email. I have had to SHOW my DL several times (no photocopy) but I hold it to show them my photo with my fingers covering almost everything else.
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In NYC, the KMPs would share their lists of "good" and "bad" phone numbers. When I would call a KMP I hadn't used before, I was often approved without a hitch because my number was good. (NOTE: When the phone girls jump from KMP to KMP, they bring the lists unofficially and w/o permission. Obviously, if they turn away fewer guys because they recognize the numbers from their previous places, that's good for biz at the new KMP.)
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There were some big busts in the NE since 2015 and I had to ditch and redo phone and email a few times. (Big bust of KMPs in NYC; big bust of one of the best AAMP "chains" with places from Boston to Atlanta; big bust in Boston that took down Date-Check and others.)
I never believe agencies, or independents, for that matter, when they say they delete your PII after screening. However, recently, an agency caused me to suspend the narrative I'd constructed about them holding onto my information securely. On my past two visits with different girls at this agency, which I've visited many times before without incidence, the girls already knew my first name, on my first visit with them. The only explanation I can think of for this is that the agency provides them your DL to verify your identity when they open the door and they memorize your name or they're just given your name so that they can provide better "customer service". If it's the latter, I'd think it a bit disconcerting that that decision is not left up to the monger.