K-girls

Comparisons
sunnyday1 169 Reviews 3477 reads
posted
1 / 84

Bros, just had a totally subpar session and I was about to write a really bad review but I just wanted to get your wise thoughts first. What do you do when a girl does not resemble the pics or description on the agency site AT ALL, and you simply don’t find her attractive body wise and there is no chemistry? When the booker followed up with me after as they usually do to ask how it went, I said fine, etc., these people have my information and I don’t want to rock the boat or upset anyone.  

But is there any recourse outside of writing a review and chalking it up to the game? What do you guys do in this scenario?

useyrhead 4 Reviews 150 reads
posted
2 / 84

So, I’ve never been in quite that position. Plus, I’m always open with bookers about how things went down.  

 
Back when I sometimes saw very new girls I had some less than awesome experiences. The booker would thank me for my honest feedback and attempt to steer me to better girls after that. My review would simply reflect that the girl was new. I’d describe her appearance and the basics of what went down along with whether I thought I’d come back after she had a chance to practice her craft for a while.

 
I do remember when Michelle asked me to see her new trainee one time. It turned out to be Mint. Most of the experience was awesome. Including the sexy three way hug with Mint and Michelle afterwards. But she was still working on BBBJ technique and had a lot of room for improvement. I let Michelle know that Mint was not in her league when it came to blowjobs. I commented about that in my first review. Months later Mint’s blowjobs had greatly improved. Though she was never a DT queen, in my experience. Still, she was pretty great overall. I never gave Mint anything but a great review. As much as I love blowjobs and DT there was so much else to love about Mint that my only comment about it was “no DT”, if I remember correctly.

 
It’s been a long time since i ran into a bait and switch though. That’s a pretty low tactic. My conversation with the booker from when that happened was simple. Since they are Asians, you have to give them the opportunity to save face. Decades of working with Asian companies has taught me you simply can’t make any progress if you don’t let them save face. So I told him someone had clearly mixed up the pictures and he steered me to another girl. And they never pulled that on me again.

-- Modified on 12/30/2020 7:22:36 AM

JustLayingLow 104 reads
posted
3 / 84

When they contact you after a session they are looking for Honest feedback - after all, they are not in the room observing (or at least,one hopes not, lol.)   The booker is running a business with a reputation to uphold, the lady is a temporary independent contractor, & the booker wants to know whether or not to recommend her, and how long she should stay.  Top performing ladies stay as long as they want, sub-par ones get moved on quickly.

36363jensen 4 Reviews 195 reads
posted
4 / 84

if you wanted to provide useful feedback outside a review. I would not go into great detail for them but noting that you were disappointed with the session is a good start. If they want more details they will ask. Just be neutral and "professional" in your answers -- not accusatory or insulting to anyone.

 
As for a review. That's your choice. But just write it from an objective point of view, not in anger or frustration. For instances, and others can disagree if they want, the mere fact that the pics are not of the girl is not such a big thing. That they are not representative is, so how the expectations you formed due to the pics and the reality differ probably matters more to anyone reading the review than the mere fact they are pics or someone else.

sunnyday1 169 Reviews 186 reads
posted
5 / 84

I don't want to hurt her income as this is her livelihood (the provider), and she was a sweet girl, not a bitch. I will not leave a review for those reasons.  

The ship has sailed on booker feedback, as noted.

I will simply steer clear of this agency in the future, too many swings and misses (both me and other kgirl lovers I speak with).

There are two other very consistent agencies in my area that I can give my money to.

Thanks for your input Jensen, as always.

Twoontuesday 11 Reviews 152 reads
posted
6 / 84

When booker reached out to you, that's your recourse.  The org wants quality gentleman mongers such as yourself to keep the dance card full as new talent arrives on the scene.  You gotta be honest with the booker.  Then ask booker if they want you to write your honest review or not.  Rocketbro will disagree and say something to the effect of bros before...

coeur-de-lion 400 Reviews 90 reads
posted
7 / 84

The more detail you can give about the substandard session, the more valuable your comments are to the booker.  I don't have to do this often, but when I do, I will often follow up in the same conversation by reminding them of the girls who are "my type/preference" by naming some well known girls (5-6) they have booked for.  Then I will say if they get new girls that are like any of the ones I just named, they are free to send me a text and I will book immediately.  Likewise, if I have asked about a girl that is not like the ones I have named, then it would be appreciated if they would waive me off and tell me she is not my type, and that I probably won't like her, and then offer me an alternative.  If we can work together to improve my level of satisfaction with the girls I'm seeing, then it will result in me doing more business with them.  They are surprisingly open-minded to working with higher volume mongers like this.  I just explain that when they recommend a girl that is the opposite of the type I normally seek out, it hurts their cred on the next girl they recommend.  Its just the way it is. I want them to know that in exchange for the level of business I give them, they have my back on making sure I'm seeing the kinds of girls I like.

GaGambler 232 reads
posted
8 / 84

I think that telling the booker is the FIRST thing you should do. The booker isn't going to get mad if you tell him/her, quite the contrary, the booker of any agency that you want to keep going to should welcome the direct feedback without having to wait until the bad reviews start piling up.

When the booker contacts me I am ALWAYS honest with my feedback.

team_rocket_qwerty 35 Reviews 177 reads
posted
9 / 84

Since all bad reviews hurt income of working girls, they shouldn't be written at all as long as the girl is "sweet" ? Doesn't this follow from your logic?

 

Also, "these people have my information and I don’t want to rock the boat or upset anyone" is basically exactly what I was talking about.  

 

You effectively put a providers purse and fear of repercussions from the org, above informing other mongers about misrepresentation and bad experience.  

 

Personally, I wouldn't be able to sleep knowing I could've prevented monger from a disappointing session by simply telling the truth. Of course, some people wouldn't be able to sleep if a sweet girl lost money for delivering subpar session off false advertisement. At the end of the day, the choice is only yours.

team_rocket_qwerty 35 Reviews 173 reads
posted
10 / 84

I will say this might only work for when the booker directly asks your input. I've never been asked for any input from any booker,for example.  

 
Also in many cases if you're a newbie to the org or aren't a regular, I've heard from many a trusted monger that the orgs will not like it if you deliver them bad feedback. They also won't like it if you deliver them bad feedback constantly as a regular..

 
Theres a reason a certain LV org directly advertised discount if you leave a positive review on a review site. And I heard they also give you discount if you keep your mouth shut in case of a bad session.  The feedback on a review site is always more impactful to their biz than direct feedback.

sunnyday1 169 Reviews 213 reads
posted
11 / 84

Well it's too late now, it's been 24 hours. Anyways, I'm honestly more pissed off at the previous reviewers than the agency.
 
If a girl looks NOTHING AT ALL LIKE THE PHOTOS, don't you think you owe it to your fellow bros on here to note that in your half-assed two sentence reviews?!!?!?

*slams fist on table*

GaGambler 138 reads
posted
12 / 84

I do NOT patronize agencies with such a low regard for their customers. ALL of the K-Girl agencies I utilize text me after each session to make sure things went well. The last girl who gave me a non GFE session was gone a couple of days after I gave bad feedback to the booker about her. I can only assume I wasn't the only customer to complain and the agency quite appropriately took her off the roster.

 
I keep asking you guys and I never seem to get a straight answer, but if the orgs treat you so fucking badly, WHY do you put up with it. There are literally thousands of hookers in the Bay Area, surely the orgs don't control them all.

36363jensen 4 Reviews 178 reads
posted
13 / 84

I get that you don't want to be an ass about things and that's fine. However, providing the feedback to the booker allows you to get information back to the lady, possibly in a more welcomed way than otherwise. That gives both a chance to decide if some corrective action to realign expectations exist or performance can be improved to make up for looks or if it's just not going to work for anyone.

 
As I mentioned, one of the big things here is met expectations or disappointed expectations. If you think she was actually nice enough for some (apparently not you) to want to see if they are not expecting something different that is good feedback to the booker -- or even to others reading a review. Ads are marketing and, as mentioned, the booker/agency does have some incentives to worry about reputational impacts. (Something all here are suffering a bit from during the pandemic period.)  

 
At the risk of having some call you shill or "VIP Monger" you can use your review to provide useful information to others that would help the girl's income potential while in the area rather than seeing her exposed to a bunch of very negative reviews from those with highly disappointed expectations. I don't really see that as not helping out your fellow monger since you're providing good information about what they should expect and so steering some away and some towards. For those who do pursue the appointment, they are more likely to enjoy it after your review than without it. That may also mean the provider also has a better time as she won't be dealing with a bunch of people who clearly feel she cheated them or at least are really disappointed.

team_rocket_qwerty 35 Reviews 129 reads
posted
14 / 84

In this case, I don't consider a booker not asking for feedback as treating me bad. I know the feedback on a review site or an active message board will be read by org, booker, org lackey or even the provider herself.  

 

I'm actually more than fine with them not asking me for direct feedback.  

 
As far as orgs disliking negative feedback from newbies and habitual walking/negative feedback from regulars, I would guess it's a common theme in most places.  

 

And The LV org is in Vegas, not in the bay, altho it did originate in the bay initially. It's an org even cdl gave me his blessing to go against, lol.

team_rocket_qwerty 35 Reviews 229 reads
posted
15 / 84

Exactly ;) That last part is what I'm so fucking zealous about. It's all good tho. How new were you to this agency? Are you a regular?  What was your previous experience with their other girls before?

 
Even the best agencies have bad outliers sometimes. I just think it's best to put truthful reviews out and let chips fall where they may.

 
And yeah, if a girl looks nothing like her pics that's an important piece of info. Some shills work around this by saying "she doesn't look like her pics, she looks better than her  pics", hiding behind subjectivity, which is usually (but not always) bs.

JustLayingLow 157 reads
posted
16 / 84

"I don't want to hurt her income as this is her livelihood (the provider), and she was a sweet girl, not a bitch."  It seems the reviewers you are whining about merely follow your own philosophy.

Floorhump422 25 Reviews 115 reads
posted
17 / 84

I'm personally afraid of being blacklisted. Why would an org care about their reputation/quality of service when the demand for their services is so still so astronomically high. In the NE, I have yet to hear of VIP status or the booker doing more than confirming your appointment, much less recommending girls. They'll just take someone off of the waitlist after booting your ass. I only feel comfortable voicing my experiences through reviews and message boards here.

team_rocket_qwerty 35 Reviews 137 reads
posted
18 / 84

While in general I agree, I'd add that no review is a lot more honest than a generic positive review that does not mention some of the most important info and makes her appear better than she is. But that's just my opinion.

Posted By: JustLayingLow
Re: Perhaps a good hard look in the mirror is in order ...
"I don't want to hurt her income as this is her livelihood (the provider), and she was a sweet girl, not a bitch."  It seems the reviewers you are whining about merely follow your own philosophy.

frr 147 Reviews 120 reads
posted
19 / 84

I once set up a meeting with a hot looking blond with a known Russian booker. When I got to the apartment the lady who opened the door for me was a REALLY hot brunette. I asked her about the lady whom i was suppose to meet. She answered that " she is not here now and I will take care of you" . I apologized and left  . Even though that lady was hot as fuck but wasn't the girl that I went to see. So,  I just wouldn't allow a switch no matter what. The booker called me immediately and begged me to go and see the brunette lady and told me that how good she was. I didn't go for it. This thought the booker a lesson not to do that with me ever again. Afterwards, she would text me pictures of her girls without photoshop or professionally done photos just so that I know exactly who I am going to see.
Bottom line, if the person in the room isn't who you went to see, then just leave.

Floorhump422 25 Reviews 133 reads
posted
20 / 84

NoVA is a completely different beast as you only have about 6-8 girls working across the various agencies at any given time. Not to mention that some agencies may take a year or more to get into.

JustLayingLow 175 reads
posted
21 / 84
useyrhead 4 Reviews 191 reads
posted
22 / 84

Apparently there are people who claim, always through hearsay from “someone I trust”,  to have done nothing more than just politely walk while also politely notifying the booker that there was some mistake and that the girl behind the magic door was not who they had been led to believe.

 
So far, we haven’t gotten anything but the aforementioned hearsay behind these claims. But even though they might or might not be rumors based on who knows what, they have some mongers fearing the dreaded org blacklist. Even though more than a few of the guys on here, including me, who have been mongering for many years in different regions have walked from appointments and never been blacklisted.

 
As to the idea that there really is such a thing as a VIP monger, no one has even clearly identified fully what that means. The closest definition we’ve seen says that these mongers get first pick of new girls and run errands or something for the orgs and various other things. Back in the rouge reading club days those guys were known as insiders (well, that was the most polite name I remember hearing them called ) and there were only a handful of them in the entire Bay Area. Most mongers did their very best to avoid them as they weren’t exactly the most trustworthy types.  

 
If by VIP monger you simply mean other mongers who have a reputation for frequent mongering, scheduling multi-hour appointments and actually tipping? Well there’s no shortage of those guys. I freely admit to being one of them. Though I’m not as high frequency as some others.  Rather than VIP monger, it would be quite a bit more accurate to call those guys high volume mongers, I think.

 
Also, there’s no reason that the OP can’t text the booker back and very politely and succinctly tell him/her his real concern even at this point. Though it sounds as if this org may not be worth the effort. Only the OP can decide that.

-- Modified on 12/30/2020 5:06:01 PM

JustLayingLow 131 reads
posted
23 / 84

And trust me, there is VIP status & bookers will do much more than confirming your appointment.  In my experience, that VIP status somehow magically extends when you travel outside of your home area ...

useyrhead 4 Reviews 128 reads
posted
25 / 84

Fortunately, there are shots for it.

team_rocket_qwerty 35 Reviews 158 reads
posted
26 / 84

Funny, because I could've sworn it was you who said that if you do walk habitually -- let's say three+ times in the row -- that you very well might be blacklisted.

 

 Even if the walking was fully warranted each time.

team_rocket_qwerty 35 Reviews 109 reads
posted
27 / 84

What am I supposed to get, Mr. LayLow?

 

That when a PO tells one after walking "you only get one lifetime walk in this agency, don't ever do it again", it is somehow mythology and not a direct threat?  

 
Yeah sure.

JustLayingLow 168 reads
posted
28 / 84
team_rocket_qwerty 35 Reviews 158 reads
posted
29 / 84

I'm still not sure what I'm supposed to get.

 
I view such a statement by a PO as a direct threat of BL.  

 
if there is no threat of BL by PO, one can and should walk out as often as he'd like, provided what he sees is not what he gets. Even if it means walking out 3,5,10 or 100 times in a row.

Even if it's a pure bluff, the mere fact that such a threat gets made, disproves the whole mythology theory.

-- Modified on 12/30/2020 5:57:51 PM

divemaster13 34 Reviews 131 reads
posted
30 / 84

As others have mentioned, if the booker reaches out to you, there's no reason not to be honest.

I had a situation with a local Thai-girl group here in NOVA.  I had had a good number of very nice GFE experiences with the girls cycling in, but one session was less than satisfactory.  Mainly b/c the girl was super aggressive, like she was trying to star in a porno. I was looking for sensuous and intimate and I felt like I was trapped in a whirlpool.  I had an honest discussion with the booker (who I was already on very good terms with) and she made sure from then on that any girl she would e-mail me about was the GFE type I was looking for.  I did not leave a review b/c there was no bait/switch--it was more of a chemistry issue.  I now do kindof wish I would have left a review, if even to make other mongers aware of the "session atmosphere" for this particular girl.  But I wasn't totally comfortable giving a low score for a session mismatch, b/c a neutral observer could put it on me as much as on her.

Another time, with a local K-agency I had booked with *numerous* times, when the door opened, it was "Butterfly A," when I had booked "Butterfly B."  But I'm after the experience, *not* the physical attributes of the girl, with very few exceptions.  She was attractive and I was game to proceed.  It was a very nice GFE session and I was satisfied.  I did note the "A" vs. "B" in my review.  I chalk it up to an honest mistake, but in case it was a pattern with this agency (which I don't think was the case), I at least documented my data point.  

JustLayingLow 133 reads
posted
31 / 84

You are Clueless, and perhaps should just Shut The Fuck Up & Stop incessantly posting, I suspect most here would be grateful ...

team_rocket_qwerty 35 Reviews 133 reads
posted
32 / 84

I'm replying to a thread that talks about mythology of blacklist. The post by useyrhead says that the idea of mongers being blacklisted for walking is all a myth.

 
Whereas, he himself has admitted that you probably will get blacklisted if you walk several times in a row, even if you are fully warranted to walk (product ad doesn't match what you get).

 
The quote I used is what a PO of a certain org has said as a response to walking.  

 
I'll post whatever I want whenever I want. Especially in a thread where some people try to dismiss the very real threat of blacklist as a phantom one. Which basically places the blame on the mongers instead of the real culprits here.  

So, sorry bud. No can do.

sunnyday1 169 Reviews 155 reads
posted
33 / 84

Wrong. I am not bullshitting anyone with a milquetoast, detail-less, or misleading review. I am just not reviewing her period. There is a big difference and I hope you can understand that. Go into my profile and read every single one of my reviews. They are extremely detailed and honest. Because I understand that in this world, and on this site, you get what you give. We are somewhat of a brotherhood here especially in kgirl land and I won't mislead anyone but I also have respect for these girls it is their job.

Like I said before, I am more upset with the lack of detail and honesty in reviews than I am with the agency. And I'm more upset at myself for not telling the booker straight up. Oh well. Live and learn...

Floorhump422 25 Reviews 137 reads
posted
34 / 84

Could you elaborate on what VIP status and a good relationship with the booker entails? As to demand, I view it as something that's fixed. There's always going to be people wanting to visit agencies regardless of the service. Most mongers aren't on the review boards anyway.

Floorhump422 25 Reviews 133 reads
posted
35 / 84

Obviously, it's only one side of the story, but I did hear about a monger who visited the same agency as OP, was honest about his negative experience (who knows what language he used though) and was subsequently blacklisted. I had a similar experience as you, where I was greeted by a different girl than the one I had requested twice in a row (two consecutive visits). When I asked the booker about it, I was given a non-answer, but thankfully wasn't blacklisted.

BigPapasan 3 Reviews 215 reads
posted
36 / 84

To quote YOUR OWN WORDS above: "If a girl looks NOTHING AT ALL LIKE THE PHOTOS, don't you think you owe it to your fellow bros on here to note that...?

GaGambler 189 reads
posted
37 / 84

You no that is not what I said, nor is it what I meant which means you are being intellectually dishonest and unlike the rest of the crowd here I am NOT going to debate someone who intentionally misquotes  or otherwise tries to twist what I said into something completely different.  

 
My post is still there for all to see. I will let my post and your response speak for themselves.

 
One word of advice, you'll make a lot less enemies around here if you try debating "honestly" and PLEASE don't try playing dumb, you know exactly what I said and you know exactly what I meant.

useyrhead 4 Reviews 185 reads
posted
38 / 84

Is absolutely the key here.

 
I can’t possibly know for sure. But I think many of us forget that, when we are talking to bookers, etc, we are almost always (though I’m sure there are exceptions) talking to someone who has been brought up Korean or some other Asian culture. Obvious, right?

 
But the next step is that in the Asian countries I have worked with (Japan, Korea, Singapore, Thailand, Vietnam, Taiwan, China, Philippines) the idea that saving face is important is a strongly held belief. One of the most effective ways to alienate an Asian who hasn’t pretty thoroughly adopted the culture of another country is to give them no corner to save face in a situation.  

 
In other words, if you want to guarantee that you will be blacklisted, go ahead and complain to a booker in such a way that they must take the blame for something. Yes, that would work just fine here in the U.S. and other western countries. But not in Asia or in a company run almost entirely by Asians who have not adopted the culture of the non-Asian country they are in.

 
I first learned this quite a few years ago. I was working for a tech company. One of our suppliers was a Japanese company. We had a problem with an entire shipment of their product. I took it into the labs and ran analysis on it and proved that it did not conform to spec per our contract with them. So I contacted the Japanese vendor and let them know.

 
Dead silence from the Japanese vendor. But the next day 4 Japanese guys from that supplier showed up. I showed them my data. Oddly, they didn’t even look at it. Any Asian would have understood why they didn’t. But I was just a naive white lab guy who believed that properly gathered data always told the truth. Yeah. Don’t say it.

 
They respectfully toured my labs and made awed noises about how expensive and well calibrated our instrumentation was.  

 
Once they got back to their office they sent us shipping instructions and a credit for the defective shipment. No admission of guilt.

 
Decades later I’ve still never seen anyone have significant success with an Asian company by trying to make them admit guilt. It is a fool’s errand and, in my opinion, a way to just about guarantee getting blacklisted with any Asian org.

36363jensen 4 Reviews 149 reads
posted
39 / 84

Yes, currently the availability of K-Girls here is greatly limited to what it was a few years ago. Yes, the K-Agencies can be tough to get into. But I have had the same experience as GaG suggests previously when I was a bit more active than now and vetting at more agencies. I see the same today -- I do get bookers asking if the sessions was good and I have not gotten any flack if I mention something was not working for me (though that is not often).

 
I suspect most of this is more about how one expresses themselves than that you saying something was not what you were expecting or unsatisfying for you. I am pretty sure it's not about me being special for the Agency or Indie in any way as my contributions to their bottom line is not moving the dial.

 
That said, I do think that those who might constantly complain make themselves unwanted -- most other businesses and particularly small businesses -- will do the same. If the agency or provider is not providing the things you want and are paying for just going back again and again, complaining all the time, is both stupid on the monger's part and very annoying for the business and provider. Of course they will eventually cut someone off, or, perhaps, keep taking the money and making no effort to please the chronically unsatisfied.

JustLayingLow 199 reads
posted
40 / 84

before wondering what being an Asian Agency VIP entails, but once a booker considers you one, it will be immediately clear.  Along the way always be polite, courteous, & respectful to the booker & the lady, and when you show up have impeccable hygiene.  NEVER decline the mutual shower.  When you're relatively new, the booker has the ladies rate you, much like we rate  them.

team_rocket_qwerty 35 Reviews 214 reads
posted
41 / 84

I did not intentionally misquote you - that is NEVER my intention,and yes, I would consider intentionally misquoting  to be intellectually dishonest as well. You should know by now I have a certain level of respect for you, so I would never do that to you. Or anyone else, for that matter. But, there is a reason I contacted you out of all people on here. And that is respect I have for you.  

 

I thought your post had to do with bookers asking for feedback as part of "treating us bad".

Otherwise, it seemed pretty offtopic in the context.  

 

You were replying to my post where I said I never had bookers contact me after (and I don't talk to bookers on my own accord after I meet the girl either, I see no need for it).  

that orgs dislike negative feedback from newbies or continuous negative feedback from regs, and that a Las Vegas org openly offered people discount for writing positive reviews.

 
You then went on and replied that all orgs ask you for feedback after and then asked if orgs treated us  "so fucking badly" why do we still go to them?

I'm sorry for thinking you attributed "so fucking badly" to the thing we discussed just before this - taking feedback. I did not realize that (please correct me if I'm wrong here as well) you wanted to take a particular issue and ask in general, why we still go to see orgs and kgirls.  

It's kinda like if you're focused on a nuances convo about how certain things in America are bad, and then someone aks you if it's so bad why don't you leave?  

 
So, if I misquoted you or misunderstood you, I take full responsibility for it and I'm sorry.

 
I believe I answered the general question you posed many, many times already. I answered it for myself since I don't speak for anyone else:  
1 - I love Asian women
2 - kgirls give the best service in general  
3 - I don't have to provide pii info for screening

team_rocket_qwerty 35 Reviews 133 reads
posted
42 / 84

Weird, because these Asian companies and POs sure like to make mongers admit THEIR guilt. There's a word for that, I believe.  

 
Oh yes - the word is hypocrisy.

-- Modified on 12/31/2020 1:11:04 PM

Floorhump422 25 Reviews 219 reads
posted
43 / 84

It's not that serious, my guy. Seems like a honest misunderstanding to me.

GaGambler 150 reads
posted
44 / 84

He is just EXTREMELY frustrating to talk to sometimes.

team_rocket_qwerty 35 Reviews 165 reads
posted
45 / 84

If you get VIP status, it will mean they will be less likely to fuck you over, as opposed to when you're just a newbie monger. They will care more about your business and you probably won't be recommended the bottom of the barrel girls anymore. You may be treated more as an actual service customer than just a poor john.  

But of course, if you start walking multiple times, and writing negative reviews, even if they're completely and fully honest and help other mongers - you will probably get that status revoked. Ie, you are expected to help the business, not disrupt it, ie - they couldn't care any less about the truth.

GaGambler 199 reads
posted
46 / 84

If I have patronized an agency long enough to get this so called VIP status it means they have treated me well enough long enough for me to NOT have to walk out of any sessions, or have had to complain to the booker multiple times about bad service.

 
I care about "my truth" IOW how has this agency treated me. It's a lot more them wanting to keep my business than me not wanting to be delisted. I "like" K-Girls, but if every K-Girl agency treated me like shit, I would simply stop seeing K-Girls. I honestly don't understand how something that seems so simple to me gets debated here every single day.  

 
I don't "help the business" other than continuing to give it my business, either they appreciate that or they don't. I have ZERO problem getting BL'd from a sub par agency, it's like all the BL's I am probably on for running my mouth on the boards. If a hooker doesn't like GaGambler, she probably isn't going to like the "real me" either, The "real me" isn't any different than my online persona.

team_rocket_qwerty 35 Reviews 183 reads
posted
47 / 84

To me, it really depends on what treated like shit means and what it entails. To many, being misled about appearance is awful, to me it's bad but I'm there for service. If I felt like all kgirl agencies had shit service, I would go for something else, yes. But I do feel my brothers pain when they get shown something else completely.  

 

You know the soup nazi episode of Seinfeld? He treats his customers like shit, but his soup is very good. This is why people go and buy soup from him. They are willing to deal with bs because of the product. But if product becomes shit - best believe no one will go to him anymore.  

 
Now, the vip status is heavily dependent on the money you put in their pocket. If you see their girls every two days and write 1 scathing review a month, they aren't gonna care much most likely.
But if you go from that to seeing two girls a month and still write your scathing review, yes they aren't going to like it most likely. Your past history will carry some weight but when they decide you do more harm than good to their biz you won't be a vip anymore.

 
Now, consider viewpoint of a newbie. He just got into this secretive kgirl club, it took him some time, connections and personal info. The first girl he sees is completely not what he expects. Will he have enough will to walk? It's easy to call out mongers for having no balls, but when you have no leverage many newbies will be hesitant to walk. The newbie will then think, maybe thats a one-time thing. And a bad review is a no-no.  

 
I remember when people thought I was a newbie and tried "teaching me", the first things they said is don't write bad reviews,because then you won't get a better hookup from an org or mms when there is someone good. I always viewed it as disgusting practice, and I rightfully laughed at these dudes faces. Hell, even cdl said himself that you need to "pay your dues" as a newbie, ie see subpar girls before seeing better girls.  

 

But that's just the truth. Best way to be a vip monger is to not write bad reviews, suck up to agencies, make sure to visit their girls often (the most important part) and not be a visible pest online or in monger circles, one that can hurt their business. Well, obviously not be an asshole to girls, but that's pretty clear.

 
I get that you've been having great experiences with korgs and have been vip member because you valued their offerings, and they value your business. I really do get that. Good for you and good for them. I'm happy for you - no, really, I am. I want my bros to fuck as much good pussy as possible. And I want korgs that offer good product and don't lie and don't threaten, to do well. I really do.  

I do apologize in advance if I inadvertently misinterpreted something again.

GaGambler 175 reads
posted
48 / 84

but your last paragraph does prove you actually read what I had to say.

 
Here is the thing, I was never one of those guys who would ever give any of the advice you were given, and that most definitely includes the advice given by my friend CDL.  I don't believe at all about having to "pay your dues" in the way of putting up with bad service, sub par girls, I most certainly did NOT "pay my dues" that way. Yes I am probably more of a known quantity than a lot of the newer guys but I NEVER put up with homely women or bad service, not now, not EVER and I completely agree with you that "sucking up" to curry favor is indeed a disgusting practice when it's me spending MY FUCKING MONEY.  

 
My point all along is that the agency has to EARN the right to call me a VIP client not the other way around. I become a VIP client not by sucking up to the agency, I become what some would call a VIP client because they treated me right, and in return I spend/t a lot of money with them. If the quality of the girls  or the quality of the service goes down I move on to another agency, if I run out of agencies, K-Girl agencies that is, I would simply move on from fucking K-Girls to fucking who ever looked good and gave good service regardless of race. I "like" K-girls, I tend to get a very consistent balance of good looks and quality service from most of the K Agencies I have dealt with, but when the girls are homely or the service sucks they only get a couple of bites at the apple with me before it's me moving on, well before they even think about Black listing me.

team_rocket_qwerty 35 Reviews 182 reads
posted
49 / 84

Again, I'm happy that it worked this way for you. But it doesn't work that way for many. Happy families are all alike, every unhappy familiy is unhappy in their own way.  

 

The alternatives in many cases are worse. My soup nazi analogy was perfect in that regard. Im willing to put up with bs the orgs pull as long as service, on average, is still good.

This is the same reason I don't see corgs who peddle younger girls and prefer corgs with milf/gilfs. Service.  
And those older tw orgs don't ps as much. Their girls are already listed at 45+ lol.  

 
If you get my soup nazi analogy, then I'm not sure why you're asking why we still go to korgs. Korgs also provide best value for service, and for many, that is important. 220 for bbfs,bbbj msog, possible rim, dfk with a mid to late 30s Asian woman is good value no matter what you think about orgs. That doesn't mean we shouldnt call out bs when we see it.  

 
Newbies and even regs are then afraid to say something negative about a girl, or several girls, because they don't want a good thing to end. They may generally still like the org, but dislike the girl. They have no outlet elsewhere to say it besides forum. They are scared to tell it like it is because they feel like they will be cut off because of it.  

 
Should they be scared ? Debatable. But threat of BL is no myth. Keeping your feedback to po only removes all the mongers knowing about subpar product, so they prefer it to you just writing a review, but that just fucks over other fellow mongers. But keep bitching to PO often enough or walk often enough, they will not be happy. It's common sense too. And just because I get why they aren't happy, doesn't mean I think that's fair. Because if you choose to mislead often enough, then you should be prepared for customer to walk often enough.  

 

And GaG, I always read everything ;)

useyrhead 4 Reviews 149 reads
posted
50 / 84

That’s the reason I think the whole VIP monger moniker is misleading.  

 
I got what these guys are calling “VIP” status by booking one 2 hour appointment.  

 
I never “paid my dues” either. And I’ve never been anything but frank in my reviews. And I used to write almost every week. More often if I was in my mode of checking out new girls. Though, clearly, that was before this last time I became active on TER again. I’m sure there are at least a few people around here who remember me from that time.  

 
The closest I ever came to paying my dues was when an org that I hadn’t seen yet put me on a waiting list to see their top girl. I asked who was available the next day and booked 2 hours because two people whose backgrounds I knew pretty well thought she was great. And she was. When I called back the next day to see who long the waiting list was for that top girl they said she had an opening the next day. So I booked 2 hours and I was in.

 
That was it.  

 
Nobody ever rolled out a red carpet or gave me anything I would call VIP treatment. I’ve been VIP at a couple of hotel chains and airlines. There you get the ability to bump a client of lower status, free upgrades to the best seats or hotel suites, the hotel manager insisting on coming down and personally greeting you and letting you know his personal mobile number, and some other perks. Except with my ATF, I’ve never gotten treatment like that and all she did was bump another client every now and then. And that was the decision of the girl, not the org. Booking a single two hour appointment was all it took to become an established client at an org.  

 
A Korean doctor friend of mine only booked single hour appointments. Then he helped a k-girl give a shot to her dog. After that, he got treated like gold. But that was a pretty unusual circumstance.  

 
Still, I’d love to see what a k-org would do if they decided to create an actual VIP program. That might be fun.

36363jensen 4 Reviews 203 reads
posted
51 / 84

CDL's bit about paying one's dues by seeing the lower tier girls rather than the top tier girls was not quite what seems to be the claim. His point was newbies that were working hard to get into the K-agencies should not make their request for the number one girl at the agencies and expect and easy entry. However, if they ask to see the less popular, second tier girls they will find that they do pass screening more easily and can then prove they are not assholes so get appointments with the top girls much more easily.

 
I don't believe he was claiming anyone should expect some type of bait-and-switch which seems to be the implication in this sub-thread.

team_rocket_qwerty 35 Reviews 157 reads
posted
52 / 84

Yes, but I believe it wasnt about first appointment - - first appointment, I agreed with him. It was about going with what booker recommends until you "graduate" or climb the proverbial ladder.  

 
And we all agreed the booker generally will recommend simply the girls who are least busy to a guy who is a relative newbie.

 
This does being up a good topic though. If you're a faced with a bait and switch on your first appointment, it's extremely hard for me to not feel sympathetic to the monger, even if I try to be very very, extremely objective. I myself have seen monherd say their first few kgirl experiences weren't good, and they quit until later. Those were guys who could've contributed to the business and would've been clients, if not for first bad impression.  

And no, I don't think they are the ones responsible for setting their own expectations high.

Admittedly, the kgirl service and in particular BB, usually is enough to have most newbies hooked. So these bad experiences are certainly more of outliers for newbies. But they do happen. It is in every one's interest to minimize them, too.

GaGambler 265 reads
posted
53 / 84

YOU might be willing to put up with a certain amount of bullshit, but I am not.

 
Yes, the threat of BL is no myth, but it simply doesn't apply to me. Maybe it's the amount of pussy I have had over the years, or maybe it's just my general attitude about "authority" but threats of BL mean NOTHING to me personally. The moment someone threatens me with a BL is the moment I tell them to "GO FUCK YOURSELF!!!"  

Once again you are at least insinuating that I said something I NEVER said. Please show me where I ever said I kept "My feedback to the PO" and PLEASE show me where I ever mentioned anything about "bitching to the PO often enough"  

 
I have ZERO worries about being blacklisted, and even this discussion about reminds me about how spineless most "hobbyists" are. I fully subscribe to the philosophy that "You can't fire me, I QUIT!!!" I know you mean well, but you continue to confuse me with someone afraid to walk. I work hard to get people to spend their money with me, I expect people wanting me to spend MY money with them to work at least as hard to get it.

useyrhead 4 Reviews 177 reads
posted
54 / 84

Jensen, that is both my understanding and my experience as well.  

 
We keep getting a lot of hearsay on this blacklist thing. I won’t deny blacklisting is real. But I still have only rarely seen it happen without the monger doing something, intentionally or otherwise, to deserve it. What makes this a somewhat questionable problem is that those who claim that it’s this big problem all talk about “trusted friends” having told them about it.  

 
Yet if they are challenged by someone saying that they have talked to mongers who have been through the experience and those mongers have admitted culpability they are told they can’t possibly know the truth because it is hearsay. So, hearsay is a trusted source for the existence, the scope and the unfairness of the problem. But it is not trusted in counter arguments. Hmm.

 
To actually put this discussion to rest we need some recent first hand experience from someone who is willing to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but. Otherwise, all we can get is speculation on this topic. Perfect for a conspiracy theory.  

 
At this point all anyone can say with any certainty is that blacklisting has happened on some unknown and apparently unverifiable number of occasions. And that sometimes the monger knows what caused it and other times he doesn’t. But this is starting to sound like those Covid conspiracy discussions where everyone has an unverifiable story that explains everything.

useyrhead 4 Reviews 326 reads
posted
55 / 84

It seems to not apply to other people, too. Does anyone know for sure who it actually *does* apply to? Other than somebody’s idea of an inexperienced k-monger?

Black--Panther 164 reads
posted
57 / 84

I recently wrote a review, and OP was part of that discussion, on Cutely; now you know how I feel.

 
I don't know how I can be black listed since the booker doesn't know me via TER. I did get a PM from the agency via TER saying they aren't "robbery" and not trying to rip-off people. I politely replied that they are a good agency, and I was just disappointed with this one provider. If I get black-listed (I haven't tried to book another appointment with this agency since that debacle), will let folks know.  As an aside, I'll have a pretty good idea who gave me up on this board if I am blacklisted.

 
 I am considered a good client. I am asked the majority of the time, how was my session If its a new girl, the vast majority of times I'll get a note asking how was it and for my feedback. Per previous comments, in those instances it is bad feedback, I am specific on what went wrong, and give a solution of how it could be better. Just like going to your boss, don't just bitch, have at least two options for solutions. I also add that I like the agency, just not a fit or disappointment in looks of the provider

 
Agree with others, there is no data out there on 'black-listed' and a reason why. I know a couple of folks who were no longer able to book appointments with K-agencies in the Washington, DC area. They have no idea what happened or why, just that they are now getting radio silence. There is speculation but no actual data.

useyrhead 4 Reviews 147 reads
posted
58 / 84

Yup. Nobody except the monger, the girl and the booker know the real story. That is how it usually works.

 
Generally, the best advice you can give these guys, after reviewing the basic monger behavioral guidelines, is just to use a burner phone and start over. We used to have sticky threads on behavioral guidelines to help guys like that out.  It seems odd that there isn’t anything like that here on such an established monger site. Or maybe I just don’t know where to look.

 
If it happens to a monger again after changing his number, it’s time for him to deeply review his behavior and perhaps consult with a few monger friends what he might be doing wrong.

 
Of course, simplifying it like this does not serve the narcissists who intentionally create chaos and controversy so they can feel powerful. Fortunately, we don’t have any of those around here, right?

-- Modified on 1/1/2021 9:43:13 AM

-- Modified on 1/1/2021 10:53:21 AM

GaGambler 138 reads
posted
59 / 84

Deserves every bad appointment he gets from that point on.

 
If any booker were to even hint that I might be blacklisted for "complaining" about a valid issue  that would be the last time they ever heard from me.

 
Correction, it would be the "second to last" time they ever heard from me, a hearty GO FUCK YOURSELF!!! would be the last thing they ever heard from me. lol

 
Personally I think Rocket takes this issue and himself just a little bit too seriously. Although I will concede that "hobbyists" as a group are a bunch of gutless whiners who quite often are too scared about EVERYTHING to stand up for themselves so they come on these boards to whine about the bad treatment they get.

team_rocket_qwerty 35 Reviews 292 reads
posted
60 / 84

Err, I never claimed you are afraid to walk... I also never claimed that you kept "your feedback to the PO" and "bitching to the PO often enough", I'm afraid you're on the side of misinterpreting things now my dude.

I was talking about in general. Like I've said, I get it - you never or almost never (can't remember) had a reason to walk. That's great. That's not true for many mongers.

team_rocket_qwerty 35 Reviews 120 reads
posted
61 / 84

Sorry, I'm here to stay and discuss relevant issues about kgirls and business of kgirls. I believe I haven't violated a single rule of this board.

 
Saying what some people don't want to hear about the bookers/orgs and their treatment of johns, as well as newbies, is not grounds for eviction. Sorry.

team_rocket_qwerty 35 Reviews 160 reads
posted
62 / 84

Do you write a public review after such bad experience ? Generally, I feel like if you write a review soon about such experience after talking with a booker, they might connect the dots together.

 
Also, did the agency start asking you feedback right away, after you were a newbie ?

Floorhump422 25 Reviews 140 reads
posted
63 / 84

I would just add that, as Panther mentioned, even the monger may not know why they were BL'd. Look no further than Sunny's recent experience, for example. And in NoVA, the agencies still ask for PII even with references, so just getting a new number wouldn't cut it. I've heard stories of people getting in solely with references, but those instances seem to be uncommon.

Kgirlsfan 133 reads
posted
64 / 84

There’s no real recourse. We take the hit.  

Your recourse is hobbying with orgs you find reputable, and therefore entering into a transaction where you feel comfortable that you will get your moneys worth.  

No matter what, you’re not gonna get your money back. I’ve been in the hobby long enough to know how to minimize the possibility of having a bad session. With a little research into the girl or org (reviews, forum) you can all but eliminate chances of having a bad or regrettable session. I can tell you for me, it’s a non issue.  

And if there was any perceived issue with services received, I’m more than happy to pay up and then move onto other girls where I know the experience will match what I am looking for.

JustLayingLow 169 reads
posted
65 / 84

but prefer more succinct, relevant & informed posts.

team_rocket_qwerty 35 Reviews 170 reads
posted
66 / 84

A succinct post such as one where I speak for others and not just for myself, as well as telling another poster to get voted off the island and leave ? Or a one liner where I say "one day youll get it [member name here]" ?

 
You're right, you won't read such "relevant and informed" posts from me.

What you will hear from me is the truth. Raw and uncut. Truth always comes out in the end. ALWAYS. I'm not concerned with making orgs money or making girls and orgs and pos better than they really are. If they blacklist for walking, I will voice that they do, in fact, do that. If they don't like people writing reviews below a certain range, I will voice that. After all, if this is the truth, what are they afraid of ?

-- Modified on 1/2/2021 6:31:02 PM

coeur-de-lion 400 Reviews 125 reads
posted
67 / 84

I  must say, Rocket, that you have a gift for not letting facts impede a good argument.  That's where the "informed" point kicks in.  Lol

team_rocket_qwerty 35 Reviews 131 reads
posted
68 / 84

You are welcome to cite any "facts" brought up by JustSttayingLow here.  

 
This thread, for most part, is devoid of actual facts. There are opinions, including mine, on the topic.  

Calling my opinion uninformed without even trying to explain why it is so, is extremely lazy.

coeur-de-lion 400 Reviews 160 reads
posted
69 / 84

my prior posts on this subject ACCURATELY and succinctly.  

 
You can go to Kgirl boards across multiple sites and find newbies complaining that a booker hasn't responded to them for six or eight weeks when they are trying to get screened to see a top-tier girl AT A NEW ORG.  If they take the booker recommendation for the second-tier girl, and the girl reports to the booker that you're a clean gentleman who treated them well (including a tip), you will not have to wait anywhere near six to eight weeks to see those top girls you wanted to see in the first place.  

 
Now, some like Rocket can call this "paying your dues" which makes it sound ominous and tedious, but I call it "taking a short cut."  Mongers need to stay focused on the ultimate prize, which is to see the top-tier, most in-demand girls by the quickest route possible.  Accepting a booker recommendation when you make your initial appointment request with a NEW booker is a way to accomplish this quickly and easily.  I don't know why some think this is an evil conspiracy on the part of the bookers and orgs to fuck them over.

team_rocket_qwerty 35 Reviews 133 reads
posted
70 / 84

The first appointment you never make with a top girl. However, you don't have to listen to the booker's recommendation, which is always the least busy girl.

 
But "paying dues" goes a bit further, CDL.

Let's say you've been waiting to get in, etc. you had someone vouch for you, etc etc. And a newbie monger arrives on the scene only to find a girl he'd walk in any agency he's a regular of.  

So what is your advice here to the newbie ? Suck it up and take it on the chin, and even if the session is not good, not write a bad review, OR text booker you're leaving, like GaG says, and if he threatens BL tell him to fuck himself ?

Yes, I get that beggars cant be choosers yada yada, but in such situation where integrity clashes with future prospect of perhaps better girls, what is your advice ? It ties well with the whole "paying dues" thing.

36363jensen 4 Reviews 141 reads
posted
71 / 84

I was thinking about other situations that might be equivalent. One might be moving to a new location or traveling and going to one of the top/hot restaurants or bars. The regulars that have been going there will generally get better seating (regardless of the place taking reservations or not). If you show up and start demanding the best spot in the house you're both unlikely to get it. Moreover, you've likely set expectations with the management and staff that you're a PITA customer so will likely not get the best service and certainly not the best table or corner with the view.

useyrhead 4 Reviews 187 reads
posted
72 / 84

Great comparison.

 
For example, the first time I actually had time to go out while I was on a work trip to Houston, for example. I used yelp and did some other searching. Finally found a steak place that sounded perfect. Then I read review after review. A few of those reviews told me what people had to do to get a good table and which tables were the best.

 
So, I called the restaurant, made my reservation and asked my table options. Picked one that was recommended and that was it.  

 
Had I not read various reviews and comments I wouldn’t have known to ask and I wouldn’t have known which tables were best.

 
Same principle applies to mongering. Read the effing reviews. See which girls work for the org. Have a few backup options of non-first tier girls. If you’re planning well enough in advance, ask a few questions on the forum. CDL and others have answered the same question multiple times in the past. I’m sure many of us will continue to answer those questions in the future.

 
That same advice has been what we’ve been giving to  new guys since back in the old days when most of these new mongers were still children. Most new guys follow it. Some people think they don’t need to do their homework. And then they complain when they have a less than ideal experience? Nobody can fix that. The problem is theirs. They’re grownups. The answers are available. People to help clarify are available. Everybody should do their homework first. Period.

-- Modified on 1/3/2021 9:41:52 AM

team_rocket_qwerty 35 Reviews 121 reads
posted
73 / 84

I'll pose the same question I posed to CDL using your analogy, if I may.

 

You come to this prestigious restaurant that it takes a while to get in, you wait for reservations, some guy gets you in and vouches for you, etc. You are then recommended a dish and the dish is really of subpar quality.

 

Do you then walk, risking your vouching reference and risking the restaurant owner saying he will never serve you again ?
Or do you just take the loss and hope that the next time it will be better (and it might be ?) Including not giving it a review on yelp (where your vouches might know your handle)

 
For the record, I don't think there is a clear choice for an average monger who isnt a regular in many agencies. You risk many things here, on one side there is your integrity, on other side is losing your connections/vouches

To me, the choice is clear, but I do realize why people choose the other one.

useyrhead 4 Reviews 168 reads
posted
74 / 84

It looks like your questions have been pretty thoroughly answered, Sunny. Or have we missed something?

 
Judging by responses, it seems this thread is morphing into something else entirely. That kind of thing forces mongers actually looking for answers to the OPs questions (and I suspect there are quite a few others who have or will have the same q’s) to have to sift through a lot of off topic responses in order to find them. Let’s help everyone out and start another thread if we want to discuss another topic or entirely different scenario.

-- Modified on 1/3/2021 3:36:34 PM

sunnyday1 169 Reviews 174 reads
posted
75 / 84

Agreed, UYH, a new topic would be nice because this one totally exploded on itself!!

And YES, you guys answered my question, many thanks.

HAPPY NEW YEARS

team_rocket_qwerty 35 Reviews 192 reads
posted
76 / 84

It gets awfully quiet.

 
Let's try this again - you try hard to get into the secret kgirl society-like org, you finally get in, via some vouches, maybe even a forum handle vouch.  

 
Then you take a bookers recommendation, and it turns out to be a dud because his rec is the least busy girl at the bottom of the roster.

Do you then walk risking BL, or proceed and "pay your dues" having a session with someone you don't really feel like having a session?

-- Modified on 1/4/2021 6:54:52 AM

useyrhead 4 Reviews 182 reads
posted
77 / 84

Though, obviously, I can’t speak for those who don’t want to make things easier on other mongers.

coeur-de-lion 400 Reviews 161 reads
posted
78 / 84

on full display for all to laugh at.  You make false assumptions when you say the booker rec will always be the "least busy girl."  The least busy girl can vary from day to day, and will not always be the same girl.  In addition, booker rec's will often consist of newly-arrived girls.  These girls may be superstars in their home city, but are unknown at the new org.  Some of the girls who went on to be LA legends, like Megan, I first saw as a booker recommendation.   So your assumption that all booker recommendations turn out to be disappointing is only in YOUR OWN experience, not universally across the board. That's why  basing your whole anti-org campaign on a false narrative is  reckless and has damaged your cred with a lot of veterans here that know better than you how these things work, and that risks and rewards are often related.  

 
With that said, there is always a chance when seeing a new girl that you will get one that does not live up to your expectations, and as you have ADMITTED many times from your own experience, it matters little whether YOU chose her or that you saw her as a booker rec.  Regardless of whether the booker rec was a dud or not, if it gets a newbie into an org six or eight weeks earlier than otherwise, I would argue that guys who aren't cheap would gladly accept that risk to speed up the timetable.

team_rocket_qwerty 35 Reviews 156 reads
posted
79 / 84

I did not assume that all new booker recommendations will be disappointing.  

I asked what do you advise IF they are indeed disappointing.

 
Thank you for answering... your answer differs from GaG's. He says if he doesn't like what's there, he will walk. You say, pay your dues and suck it up. And that's fine, your approaches differ. All that I wanted to know. Thanks.

coeur-de-lion 400 Reviews 140 reads
posted
80 / 84

you have successfully gotten into the subject org rather than wait six or either weeks to get a response from the booker.  So what you do next is ask for one of the better girls that you can select by reading their reviews, IF you have VIP.  You're already in, so its downhill after that first one.  

team_rocket_qwerty 35 Reviews 111 reads
posted
81 / 84

Right, even if she was a fat mess and looked like nothing the pic and in any other situation you would've walked, your advice is to suck it up in order to get to the top tier and get perks. I got your sentiment, thanks again for answering.

 
That's exactly what I called "paying dues".

coeur-de-lion 400 Reviews 124 reads
posted
82 / 84

get approved to be on the customer list so you can see any girl on the roster in the future. If you don't think its worth it, then go ahead and keep texting and getting ghosted for eight weeks or longer.  In your area, its only $220-250, I believe, and I don't know about you, but I have yet to meet a Kgirl that could not make me cum.  You're making yourself look cheap and its eroding the image you created that you are a risk-taker when the situation calls for it.  Trying to get approved at a new org is one of those situations.  Don't hold the pennies so close to your eyes that  you can't see the dollars.

team_rocket_qwerty 35 Reviews 148 reads
posted
83 / 84

This is more about the principle. We talked about how walking away is discouraged and how a newbie might be scared to do so. Has nothing to do with being cheap.  

 
Contrary to what useyrhead thinks, my question isnt really to catch you or anyone else and say they're liars or anything - it's just to initiate discussion and to mainly point out there are situations where, like you say, newbies can be bustified in not walking and sucking it up. Some can consider it spineless, some may consider it pragmatic. Like you say, it can be considered an investment of a sort.  

 
Now, personally I wouldn't do it out of principle if I cared about looks, but I don't so it doesn't even apply to me. I, unless looks are completely egregious and stark in contrast to what was advertised, don't judge a book by its cover.

 
I hope I articulated this well enough. While I don't agree with the concept, I certainly cannot fault a newbie for "paying dues" and not walking.

mufftime 270 Reviews 129 reads
posted
84 / 84

Gotta know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em.

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