Just because something isn't off the clock doesn't mean it isn't real.
I have become friends to some degree with a lot of people I do business with. Friends is a word that has many levels of meaning.
The woman at the coffee hut in the airport is the same one I have been doing business with for years. She saves my favorite pastry if they are running out before I get there. She fixes my coffee just the way I like it where as normally the customers and sugar & cream on their own. I know the names of her two daughters and have a picture of them. But I always pay for my coffee and pastry.
Providers are no different. There are some with whom I have had off the clock meetings and some whith whom I have had a connection to one degree or another yet have paid for every meeting.
I don't think the business is as black & white as you make it seem.
This was the 3rd time I've been back to see this provider. And while she was non-attached in our first two meetings, we really began to know more about each other on the 3rd meeting and emotions came to play. I noticed that she had a great "O" on the third meeting because even though I was wearing a condom, I could feel a very warm and wet gush from her as she moaned with eyes closed. I'm very skeptical about providers having a real "O", but I believe this was real. But what was different about this meeting when we parted was that she said it was going to be her birthday next week and told me empathically "you're so sweet .. please don't forget me " and gave me a sensual DFK. My response was "You might be surprise, I might be around next week". But, I could tell there was this emotion coming out of her which I never saw the first 2 meetings. Now, my skeptical mind is saying, naww .. she just wants me to come back to spend money on her. But on the other hand, we're starting to really get to know each other's life. Aw shit, when these feelings come to play ... you feel mushy. Anyone with the same experience.
Absolutely. I know for myself I don’t think I can see a Lady several times without some degree of emotional connection. The form and level varies, but I will take it a step farther: I am not sure I would see a lady three or more times without the seeds for some level of emotional connection already beginning to sprout. This doesn’t mean “fall in love with” each of them, there are many connections well below that level.
My opinion, shared by some of the posters here and disagreed with by others, is that things often get much better once that happens (so long as you stay within reasonable bounds).
I have several Ladies I have stayed friends with long after I stopped seeing them professionally, including one who just invited me to her wedding. Life, and this world we play in on these boards, have so much more to offer when you do start to care about someone. Though it also opens you up to more hurt when things go wrong.
I agree that what you can say does happen on occasion and have also been to the wedding of one of my ATF's.
Assuming the nuptials were between a provider and hobbyist, correct? Going to that wedding was a great way to find out that the love you seek can be found in the most curious of circumstances, but only time, tells. WIsh them luck. In this day in age, they will need it.
With 50% or so of marriages not lasting, it isn't just providers & clients who need a little luck to go with the good intentions.
In the case of the Lady I know: no, she didn't marry a client.
You're not the first, nor the last.
Enjoy the fantasy if you want, but the reality will bite you in the ass.
If it is not off the clock, it isn't real.
Just because something isn't off the clock doesn't mean it isn't real.
I have become friends to some degree with a lot of people I do business with. Friends is a word that has many levels of meaning.
The woman at the coffee hut in the airport is the same one I have been doing business with for years. She saves my favorite pastry if they are running out before I get there. She fixes my coffee just the way I like it where as normally the customers and sugar & cream on their own. I know the names of her two daughters and have a picture of them. But I always pay for my coffee and pastry.
Providers are no different. There are some with whom I have had off the clock meetings and some whith whom I have had a connection to one degree or another yet have paid for every meeting.
I don't think the business is as black & white as you make it seem.
I'm sorry you have obviously had a bad experience or two, but you can be taken by anyone. Providers are not at all unique in this reguard, nor do I believe they are more or less likely to do so than anyone else. There are good & bad anywhere.
If you take some reasonable precautions then all you are likely to get stung for is the cost of the evening. And only once has that happened to me.
Personally I've been burned far more often, and far more seriously, but "legitimate" businessmen. And with identity thefts, double billed invoices, shoddy wormanship in every aspect of the construction world (NOT every construction company), billions lost to graft, corruption, and incompetence in government, etc., I see the providers as a whole to be a relative shining light.
I have found that, again in my case, if I treat the Ladies with courtesy and respect and I get back far, far more than I give.
I know not all stories are the same, and I'm sorry you ran into a bad situation. But don't taint all with you experience.
-- Modified on 6/13/2004 4:09:54 PM
you can't take anything at face value.
Even off the clock lends itself to being taken advantage of.
Many of these ladies are great, but they all think in terms of dollar signs.
It's the nature of the business.
I expect all business people think in terms of dollar signs. That’s what most of them are in business for. I also think of the appropriate dollar signs when I see them. But the $$$ doesn’t mean that emotions (not necessarily love) don’t often evolve as well.
The original poster seemed to be asking is a Lady might actually have grown to like him. All I’m saying is that yes, you can like your provider and she can like you. That’s allowed and not all that rare.
I agree with you, you should never let it cloud your eyes to reality in its many forms.
Peace.
I am so afraid of falling for a provider. One of the providers I visited was exactly my type.... We chatted most of the hour, and I was satisfied. I felt my emotional barrier come down. I told myself to never see her again because I would be the fool. I don't know why, but love and sex are not completely separate for me yet...
Guys, grow up. This is first and foremost a business and while you may have genuine feelings for her, she feels only the size of your contribution. If you think she's got a thing for you, set up a date and when you get there, tell her that you left your wallet in at home, office etc... If she flinches, you'll know that what she's really thinking and this is this guy is trying to stiff me twice (no pun intented). She may decide to give you credit because you are such a "great" guy, but don't pay her and watch your usual time become a past time... for someone else. Unless you plan to take her down the road of retirement and riches, find yourself a homely country girl who will fulfill your fantasies and wash your dirty drawers. Leave the working girl in circulation, because until they have had enough, you'll be pissing up a rope wondering whether she loves you for you or for you dough.
Been with a couple men who on the 2nd, 3rd meeting, etc, have hinted at maybe not having enough $ on hand -- they'd have to check. Even after granting them FAR more time for the same initial rate! Very bad taste and form, and utterly tacky! Men whose company I have enjoyed and given generous discounts to in the form of more time. This kind of guy I never want to see again!!!! (If you must know, the best way to ask for a 'discount', is express your ideas for a longer session, or travel together, and gauge her rates.)
If she's in love with you or close to it, and you are single, she perhaps will not accept the $. Otherwise, you know where you stand (ie she's not in love with you, and/or you're married). You're then just a client, but one whom she perhaps really loves and eagerly awaits to see and from whom you can get more time and a lower extended-session/ travel rate!!
Why do so many of the posts on this topic see only one piece of a complex problem?
Yes, this IS a business, but why do you acknowledge that the man can have emotional feelings for the woman but not the other way around?
Why can a man mix business with careing for the lady, but for her it's always all or nothing?
Why is it that "she only likes me for real if she doesn't take any money"? Do you propose a 100% tip if a guy actually likes a lady, since a lot of posters think she should give him a 100% discount to prove she has ANY feelings for him?
But the bottom line is: Why do people think emotional feelings for someone come in only one size: either she sees me as an object or she's in love with me? There are LOTS of stops along the way on the journey from stranger to "in love". Stop and enjoy (and acknowledge) the ride even if it never gets all the way there.
I truly feel sorry for a lot of the posters on this & similar topics, mostly the men.
In a selfish way I should probably say, "Keep it up, guys, you're right!". It's amazing to me how much I have benefitted for so little just because I followed a string of guys who feel that way.
Sorry fot the rant, I haven't posted like this for a while, but it irks me to see lots of guys smear a whole group of women based upon one or two bad experiences they have had. This just follows a specifc post, it is not really directed to you specifically, but to what is an air of "you can't trust them lieing, cheating women" that I find upsetting. Especially on a day where the post shortly above this one again carries the sad story of a Lady murdered.
I've lost too many friends that way, though I never knew this Lady. I have never known a guy murdered by a provider. (Though I assume it has occasionally happened I expect it is MUCH rarer).
OK, enough venting and ranting for now.
-- Modified on 6/13/2004 3:55:26 PM
YOU are right, but this kind of situation is rare. I love the sporting life as much as the next guy, but frankly, I am not looking for love and guys that do, scare me and drive the rates up. If you are the type that wants that level of affection, then so be it... but the perponderence of the evidence suggests that most of the women in the sport do it for dough. As I have said in many posts, finding true love at the end of the last man's condom is an event I am not looking to see. If you want to be the emotional clean up man, then more for you. I am not a hater...
I understand your comments, I don't take them as being angry or any such thing. Maybe I'm not expressing myself very well (certainly a distince possibility). I am NOT (repeat, NOT) saying every guy should "Fall in Love With" one or more of the Ladies. I am basicly saying that there is a lot inbetween "No Emotional Connection" and "Falling in Love". I have seen quite a few Ladies. I have come close to falling for one. Only one. But I can honestly say I have developed a friendship, careing, interest in almost all of the women I have seen more than once. I know they are pimarilly in it for the money; it's a business. I just think it's very possible to be friends with someone I'm conducting business with. That's really all I was trying to say. I don't fall in love every friend I have outside this business, and don't expect to fall in love with all the friends I make in this business either.
The start of this message chain didn't talk about falling in love, but just emotion between a Lady & client. I didn't (and don't) understand the tendency to discount Ladies feeling emotions towards a client they have seen multiple times. Hopefully I may have explained my thoughts a little better this time. I'm sorry for the previous confusion.
Okay, I get it now. What I have seen is a bunch of guys that get caught up in getting some really good looking woman a few times that is well beyond what they might contact as a civilian and think that somehow there is a chance of finding happiness. I've had a couple of providers who got along with me very well and I am sure that on at least a couple of occasions, I hit their pleasure zone. And yes, it was awkward because you could see that they were not faking it. In the glow fo great sex however, I ran home with my tail between my legs because I was not emotionally available to this woman. Anything else would have been tantamount to a tacky affair.
You pay for service, you get service, you got your money's worth. If she gives you this kind of a feeling, you're the one who got a 'tip' for the session. What could be bad? Just remember that the chances of it going beyond certain limits are, well, really, really small. But there is great joy to be had within those limits.
I had the same thing happen and it just ended with hurt feelings on both sides. I had seen this one particular provider for over 2 years and we became very close friends, Then about two months ago she mentioned she saw that I had written a review on another and questioned my friedship. One accusation lead to another on both sides and we ended our friendship with "goodbyes, wish you the best" this past week. My advice is let her go, you're headed trouble.