without paying, I don't think he should expect to get laid, a bit childish for him to be upset at her IMHO.
-- Modified on 6/5/2004 10:23:13 AM
On one of the regional boards, a hobbyist posted his version of a disappointing trip to Vegas with a provider. I had heard her version a few months ago.
His side: He had a session with a beautiful young provider and had a blast. When a business trip came up for Vegas, he really wanted to invite her but he couldn't afford to pay her fee.
She agreed to be his companion if he paid for all expenses (including a show), and no extra money had to change hands. He strongly hinted that he wanted to get some action (get laid) and she said that shouldn't be a problem because she got horny too.
While in Vegas, he bought her some clothes and accessories. After shopping, he wanted some bedroom fun but she was too tired--she rested instead. Then they went out to an expensive dinner, saw a show, and went dancing at some clubs. By 2:00 am he was ready to go back to the hotel (expecting action, of course).
But she disappeared in the club bathroom, and wouldn't answer her cell phone. He gave up and went to the hotel alone. She then contacted him and said she wasn't ready to go to back yet; she wanted to party with some people she'd met. At 6:00 am she came back and went straight to sleep in the other bed. They flew home after a tense breakfast. She never apologized for ditching him or for not having sex on the trip.
Her side: The hobbyist was a very nice, but average-looking middle aged man. She said he apologized in advance for not being able to afford to pay her, but said it would really make his trip if he had a beautiful woman on his arm out in public.
She says he did hint about having sex--something like he knew he couldn't pay her what she deserved but he hoped they would have some fun anyway. She says because he was not paying her (except travel costs and meals), she didn't think she had to promise him sex--only be a sexy companion in public. She did joke that he just might catch her at a horny moment, though. (She was thinking she very well might sleep sleep with him if the right moment came, but she didn't want to promise him that 100%.)
At 2:00 am, she was still in the party mood and did not want to go back to the hotel. She had met some cute guys her own age at the club and wanted to hang out with them. She felt she had fulfilled her part of the bargain by being a fun and sexy companion the whole trip while out in public. Now she wanted to have her own fun for the next few hours.
She says she did feel bad about ditching him in the bathroom, but didn't want to confront him directly in case he got angry in public.
When she got back at 6:00 am, it was obvious he was quite upset and she just kept quiet until the trip was over.
So, does anyone have any thoughts?
If a hobbyist pays only for travel expenses and meals/activities, is he entitled to only having "eye candy" on his arms, or is he entitled to sex too? If so, should he expect repeated wild sessions, or should he hold back a bit since he is getting such a discounted visit?
On a trip, should the hobbyist expect the lady to be with him 24/7, or should she have some personal time to herself? Is it OK if that personal time includes going to a party for a couple of hours without him?
Do most ladies who accept overnight trips clearly spell out the expectations so there are no disappointments like this one?
She wasn't there in her role as a provider; no contract for serices was entered into, no money changed hands (excepting the normal dating type guy pays for the trip situation). If anything, it was an extended date that didn't work out. She didn't act in the most mature way, but that's only human. They shouldn't "date" again, but she was under no obligation to provide him with sex.
Well .. if she agreed to accompany him in exchange for plane fare and hotel to see Vegas ... then why did she disappear and left him cold? Even if there was no sex expected, at least she should not just disappear, not asnwer the cellphone, and leave him hanging. I donno, but if I were the guy I would feel bad too if the person I was with suddenly disappeared and I didn't know where she went.
they both should have worked out all details upfront. there should have not been anything left to question. they both are at fault.
That is why, when someone is procuring a lady for a long business trip, he should outline what he is expecting, and ask about her expectations. I am not sure why she accepted the trip knowing, that he was only paying for her meals and airfare? What was she really getting out of the trip, nothing really. She should have been upfront about her intentions. Most of the ladies that I know would demand some sort of fee for other "activities", regardless of a free trip/hotel room/free meals, for they can always take treat their ownselves lol
"What was she really getting out of the trip, nothing really."
From what I have read here and on other boards, she got an all expenses paid mini vacation inclusive of air fare, room accomodations, meals, shows and personal shopping, among other things. I would say that was something.
I agree that both parties should have been clearer about their requisite intentions and expectations before the trip. Of course, if one of the parties is looking to take advantage of the other, such honesty is not in their best interest. You are also probably correct in suggesting that this lady was capable of treating herself to this kind of trip. So why then, did she really consent to this trip? You would have to be a complete "air head" not to know that this guy was expecting some action in return for his picking up the tab. Let's not be stupid here folks, this guy got "tooled"!
I had to chuckle at Two-Sides representation of part of her story. "He was a nice, but an average looking, middle aged man...". Well, for those who take the time to discover who the provider in question is,.... she is NO PRIZE herself.
-- Modified on 6/5/2004 9:23:29 AM
-- Modified on 6/5/2004 10:11:44 AM
To me (just my opinion) she wasn't getting anything out of her trip , and that is the reason why she wasn't "doing the nasty" with the Mister. I bet you anything, if he was paying her a flat fee along with the free trip, her chances of pulling up her skirt are more than likely. Why do you think she preferred to be away from him for? Because she was probably thinking that she was just there for show. Now mind you, you and I both do know, that she knew he wanted more out of the free trip, but it seems like to me, that she that would use this as just an excuse to get out of it. I am only voicing my opinion, and this is not to reflect on how ALL females think. For, we All don't. But, that is what happens sometimes, when those who are seeking companionship are just "hooked on looks", other than her less than great reviews/services. Sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...LOL I just happen to know of some "eye candy" ladies who do think this way. But, I am glad that you agreed with me on one point. Thanks! 
-- Modified on 6/5/2004 11:43:47 AM
-- Modified on 6/5/2004 11:24:42 AM
without paying, I don't think he should expect to get laid, a bit childish for him to be upset at her IMHO.
-- Modified on 6/5/2004 10:23:13 AM
See, he only brought the "eye candy", he didn't buy the complete package 
He should have been upfront and said: " well for this free trip, I do have expectations of you doing X,Y,X". Then, she would have no choice really, but to either comply or just leave the offer alone.
communicate. There is no doubt he expected to get her time without paying her rate. Most providers are explicit about all travel expenses being paid by the client, in addition to their agreed-upon fee. There is also no doubt that she knew he expected something in exchange for his paying for an all expenses paid mini vacationn. She should have said up front that this arrangement only included "eye candy" services, nothing more. She knew what he expected, she knew she pissed him off, and she avoided him and dissed him. They both screwed up, end of story!
say that I view this as a client business arrangement and not as a friend friend arrangement. As such he is the purchaser of the services and she the supplier. He negotiated for what he wanted. I think the onus is on her as the business owner to accept or reject the offer and counter with the details to the agreement.
They probably should not have gone on this outing together. But she should have set the rules. It is she who does this for a living and deals with the selling of the service on a daily basis. This is implied contract and she needed to spell out what was not covered.
Why can't he speak up about his expectations? Don't he have a voice? It was his failure to do so from the beginning, that brought on his own misery.
This episode is a sad tale. It should have ended up win/win for both but, unfortunately, probably resulted in a complete loss, with bitter feelings on both sides. The hobbyist ended up losing a favorite provider and the provider has likely lost a good client.
From a overall financial standpoint I blame the provider. Based on the circumstances as presented, the client appeared to be a solid, long-term client of the provider (she did travel to LV with him). I am almost positive that if she had thown him some "freebies" he would have rewarded her in spades down the road. I cannot believe that a more mature and experienced provider would not have assessed the situation better and either not gone on the trip or provided on the trip.
like you are as cold hearted, insensitive, self centered, mercinary and as much of a manipulator as the provider described in this post. If you read the opening thread -
His reported story: "She agreed to be his companion if he paid for all expenses (including a show), and no extra money had to change hands. He strongly hinted that he wanted to get some action (get laid) and she said that shouldn't be a problem because she got horny too."
Her reported story: "She says he did hint about having sex--something like he knew he couldn't pay her what she deserved but he hoped they would have some fun anyway. She says because he was not paying her (except travel costs and meals), she didn't think she had to promise him sex--only be a sexy companion in public. She did joke that he just might catch her at a horny moment, though. (She was thinking she very well might sleep sleep with him if the right moment came, but she didn't want to promise him that 100%.)"
As the stories go, there is no doubt that she KNEW of his interest and expectations as it related to sex and his inability to pay anything further and she acknowledges such. Alternatively, IMHO, she clearly "led" him on by suggesting that he might "just catch her at a horny moment" as contrasted to being very clear and honest that she wasn't offering sex without additional payment. You can play all the lawyer games you want about splitting semantic hairs here but the information provided so far would suggest a less than honest provider.
-- Modified on 6/5/2004 1:42:22 PM
Since she never promised anything, and he still took her for the trip, why should he expect to get laid? I don't understand that reasoning at all.
The over rationalation about failure to negotiate up front is a weak excuse. She knew what he expected. Anyone can figure that out. She ditched him plain and simple. And I think she even had some prior experience in leading him on to thinking a real friendship existed beyond a very strict pay per hour relationship. But he fell for it and still has the lure with hooks imbedded in him to prove it.
Take it as a lesson and move on.
-- Modified on 6/5/2004 7:03:27 PM
I am just playing devil's advocate like every other person, who is posting here. So don't make me out like to be the devil's own here (well okay, maybe the devil's mistress LOL). I wasn't the one that decided to bring Miss "Eye Candy" on the trip, was I? Hell no. I would have spent that money on some materialistic things on myself, I must admit
As soon as he said he could not pay her fee, the provider should have said there would be no you-know-whattin'. By saying "that should be no problem" she clearly indicated that he would get what he desired without a fee. If this were jus a case of misunderstanding, why did she feel it necessary to hide from him and otherwise avoid him? If she really believed she had not promised anything, she would have simply said so and recounted the conversation. The "I didn't want a scene" excuse sounds like unadulterated crap. This guy is really going to have a shouting match over whether he's going to get laid because he's paid a provider to accompany him to Vegas? She hoodwinked him and she knew it. That he fell for it may be poor judgment on his part but as for who misrepresented, it is clear she did.
You and JDRocks have pretty well covered the ground. Although I must disassociate myself from his opening paragraph.
Sounds like she's trying to use caveat emptor as a defense. Sorry. While it's good advice to be wary of scams, it's never been accepted as a defense for the scam artist in our society (I'm not responsible, he should have been more careful dealing with someone like me).
Well, now I understand why some ladies in the business want to keep the status quo. If it were legal these two would be in civil court (maybe small claims) by now and she'd have to come with a much better story than this.
And CentrumSilver, when you wrote "Why can't he speak up about his expectations?" you were joking, right? If I did that trying to set up a local appointment the lady would hang up on me, and rightly so.
Of course I'm drawing conclusions based on the statements presented. Facts of which I'm unaware could alter those conclusions. We all know there are at least three sides to every story: his side, her side, and what acutally happened (thank you H.H. Munro).
There is a difference between speaking with a provider you haven't met yet, and speaking with someone that you have Get it??? Apparently, they HAVE been together before, and he COULD HAVE spoken up about it, from the get go.
-- Modified on 6/5/2004 3:28:59 PM
CentrumSilver and what she said...He should have said SOMETHING...at least when they met before going to the airport.
-- Modified on 6/5/2004 4:27:41 PM
he even found a girl that was willing to go away with him without compensation. There are countless guys that shell out thousands of dollars to providers to accompany them on business and personal trips for the soul purpose of having arm candy. Frankly I don't agree with paying for arm candy, but lots of guys do it none the less.
Expecting sex from her is like wanting to have his cake and eat it too. The stage was set that maybe it could happen, but it wasn't a definate, and that's how it played out. He has no reason what so ever to be upset.
He got what he paid for, no more, no less.
It was a poor decision for her to go to LV with him but downright stupid once she decided to go to withhold sex. She lost him as a client and probably some others. All a provider has is her reputation and she's taking a battering.
As for the countless men who shell out thousands of dollars for business trip eye candy, that seems a total myth to me. What do you base this claim on? The days of Dennis Kozlowski and Enron are long gone.
I use to think it was a myth to. I base the statement on my conversations with providers. I had been entertaining the idea of doing a vacation with a provider so I'd bring up the topic now and then to see how they felt (in general) about extended trips with clients. I heard some interesting feedback/stories from them.
The majority of the ladies I've discussed this with do quite a few extended trips each year, only a few said they don't do them. All the ladies that do them said more than half of their trips are platonic (arm candy, company for an older/lonely guy, etc..) These were usualy in a business setting.
One girl goes away twice a year for a week long medical convention in the Bahamas to the tune of $10K each time. The guy is gay and afraid to come out to his business associates. Her days are free since he's in meetings all day, she just accompanies him at night. She has a few clients that she does this week long business trip thing with, only one is non platonic.
I was shocked to hear that guys would pay money like that for a platonic arraingment, but it's apparently very common from what the ladies say.
-- Modified on 6/5/2004 10:53:06 PM
I agree with a lot of what was said below. I agree that if he said he couldn't pay her fee then she should of said Thanks but No thanks and ended the discussion. I also agree that she led him on by saying he MIGHT catch her at a horny moment. Maybe if he had been a younger better looking guy who was more her age then she might have done something with him. But I also think the guy was dumb for even thinking that she would laid down with him w/o a fee involved.
Both are at fault. Her for not clearly saying "I will go but I will not provide any other service besides than to act as 'eye candy' unless you pay the required fee while on the trip"
And him for not clearly stating that "He expected sex in exchange for a free trip/meals/whatever other expenses may come up."
she was being a real bitch as far as I'm concerned, but he was naive in not getting things straight ahead of time.
It never ceases to amaze me how some guys forget why these ladies are in the business they are in. They get strung along after hearing the provider say what a wonderful friend and person the client is and how much they enjoy their time together. Especially how they are among their favorite clients and how they wish so many more clients could be just like they are. The client naturally thinks there is truth in those words and invites her on a trip like this.
Wake up dudes!!! What you hear is marketing 101 and a move for repeat business. Simple terms, more of your money. The only interest as a friend you are is how thick is your wallet and how liberal freely you part with the contents.
-- Modified on 6/5/2004 7:16:00 PM
My personal feeling is that she could have at least given him *some* action. C'mon, she does it for a living right? How hard is it?
I could understand her POV if she wasn't a provider, but I think she dropped the ball here. It always pisses me off when people pretend they are stupid and the bitch about it. Please, this is whore mechanics 101, its called sex for money people! Unless you really get all philosophic about the disclaimer on the main page of this site, don't play if you don't like the game. Its an excellent game, and the players are getting better. Stay in shape and get a healthy dose of daily TER. It does wonders.
Ask this of the client.... if he knew in advance that she was going to pull the stunt she did, would he have taken her on the trip? I think not.
whenever someone posts on the boards saying to the effect of:
"looking for a provider to join me on a very nice upscale vacation. I'm not a rich man and can only afford to pay your travel expenses".........
Everyone jumps all over him saying ladies time is money, he's crazy if he thinks anyone will accept his offer, etc..
In this case it seems that many people, some providers included, are saying he should be entitled to some nookie in exchange for paying her travel expenses.
I'm confused...
He got used!What she did was disrespectful!He must be a nice guy,because i would have left her ass at the airport!!!!!SHE CAN FUCKING WALK HOME!!!
This was a recipe for disaster. Neither one of them thought it through very well. No way they would have come out of it friendly.
She agreed to do him a service for free. It would have been a miracle if he was satisfied with what he got. His wanting sex from her shows that he couldn't stand the bargain made himself. Just as her wandering off later shows that she couldn't stand it.
/Zin
Not exactly the first time it has ever happened.
Certainly won't be the last.