I coose to remain single and childless because I love sampling women. I am not a moralist, but I could never put a wife or children in the path my torrid lust for women.
ok ok ok ...now I am really confused! Let's call him - Mr.X.
I have been seeing Mr.X on a bi-weekly basis for quite some time, and consider him a friends with extra benefits.He was my very first official client. He has always treated me like a queen and is one of the best lovers I have ever had the pleasure to know. When we go out it is always something extravigant (shopping, dinner, dancing, hot tub, awesome luvins and way too comfortable sleep nice breakfast and we go our own way). A few months ago I noticed that my paypal account had more money in it than the few dollars I always leave in it. I didn't hear from him again for over a month. 5 days after thatt date...more money in paypal. He always gifts me with way more than my rate as it is, when I asked him why he was sending me extra in paypal his answer was he wanted me to know he was thinking about me and to go buy something special for myself. okay... I accepted it for what it was and didn't think much more on it, until dinner 3 weeks ago.It was, as always, a wonderful evening, right up until he pulls out a ring. I almost choked on my cristal!I begin blundering about with how lovely a jester, and I am so flattered but...as much as I enjoy your friendship I just can't accept this - you know the drill. He had the nerve to laugh at me! He stated he had a jeweler friend and when he saw it he thought of how pretty it would look with my well manicured hand warmin it. He is such a charmer. Again I politely refused as he slid it onto my finger telling me to hold onto it till our next date and then if I wanted to give it back he would not argue. Okay fine...I took it off before I went home cause if the hubby were to see it I'd Have much "splainin to do" it has now been just over 3 weeks and I have not heard from him and he does not return my emails. I worry I may have offended him, but I simply do not feel comfortable accepting such an obviously expensive ring (very engagement looking too boot!)Am I wrong to feel that way, What the hell was he thinking buying me a ring? Have I lost him as a temporary boyfriend? Should I keep the ring and wear it when I am with him if it makes him happy? I have never had this issue before although I maintain a very comfortable relaxed relationship with all of my regular temporary boyfriends, but I have never stepped outside of the boundaries of the hobby. I am at a total loss and have no idea how to handle this situation without possibly offending one of my most favorite friends...HELP!
You are married plain and simple. If you were that good of friends, then why wasn't that at some point mentioned? If it didn't come up prior to the dinner, than why didn't you set the cards straight by not accepting his ring as well as telling him the truth?
Do yourself a favor but most importantly give him the respect he deserves by giving him his ring back along with being honest with him.
Many of us search or dream of finding that someone special and I truly feel it is not only cruel but hurtful to play games.
~CarleeofArizona
She wasn't leading him on (at least as far as she knew)--that's why she is posting--to see what others think about the significance of this ring. I probably would have taken the ring too without saying anything, for fear of embarrassing either of us at the time.
I think a mature man would be upfront at this point and say in so many words that he wants a romantic or exclusive relationship (if indeed that is his wish).
Since he hasn't, I'm thinking the ring and extra money may be innocuous gifts--he's extremely fond of her and is giving her extras because he can afford to...not because he wants to marry her.
The poster could have told the client that she was married if the relationship was as close as she described. Maybe she was not leading him on, but she did not seem to provide him with information that said she was off limits well before he went over the deep end.
Since you have a "hubby" why would he think you could accept or wear a ring? Sound like time to move on and if he's breaking off contact then your home free.
...keep all your regular temporary boyfriends...drink some more Cristal...check money in paypal account...be confused...offend one or more friends...(not necessarily in that order...lol)
and in a few more years, honey... do it all over again...
Life's a bitch!(not really...Life is goood but sometimes you pick out the wrong chocolate from the box)....I think W C Fields had a great line about these types of guys...
Cheers!
modified to change the friend count and adjust my feeling about life...ITS GOOD!
-- Modified on 5/26/2004 5:29:39 AM
-- Modified on 5/26/2004 5:32:25 AM
This is a perfect illustration of the untoward consequences of a "GFE relationship" that has become too intense. If the circumstances you describe are accurate, your client has SERIOUS ROMANTIC AFFECTIONS for you. Shame on you if you exploit this any further. Be decent and cut things off before you send him into a total tailspin.
Accept all the gifts he wants to bestow upon you. he gets much pleasure in giving. Why take that away from him. Just make it plain to him that your relationship it what is and cannot go
further. I'm sure he just happy to be with you when he can. He paying for your time so make him enjoy the moments with you.
When we practice to deceive.
This is what happens when you play around on your S.O. Does this client even know you are married? If so, then he probably thinks your love (not just your body) is for sale and thus all the money and gifts he's been bestowing upon you.
Need to keep this business strictly a business!
Think of it as special lingerie that you share together. You are providing the fantasy, remember? Enjoy the ring as a symbolic link to him. Maybe think of it as a collar that a mistress gives to her slave, something that he wears in her presence, and that he may keep with him to reflect on his feelings for the mistress. It is a link of you and him. It is special for HIM.It brings him pleasure. I would respect that, and continue to do what you do best.
If you can't get your self right about all of this take a long break,or get out. Otherwise you are screwing with your soul and will become depressed. It could cause problems with your marriage. This is all supposed to be fun. Remember?
Both Carlee & NetMichelle make very good points. If you haven't established boundries with him by now you should have. Once those have been understood and accepted then the ring can serve as an intrical part of his fantasy on his dates with you.
There are many roles or fantasies that we hobbyists wish to have entertained. Some require rubber chickens, power tools and steam generators. Others are as simple as just being our "special Gal" for whatever time we arrange for.
FR.
-- Modified on 5/26/2004 9:01:10 AM
Make sure he really knows that you're married and this is only a business arrangement that might be slightly more special because of who he is. Did he not realize you were married? I'm honest with my friends that I do not want to get married right now. You can enjoy each other's company but if it gets too carried away or you start feeling uncomfortable about it, then tell him . . . and/or break it off with him. If he can accept this, then wear the ring while you're with him as a token of appreciation. I don't know how you gals do it. It would be hard for me to be married and still be a provider. I can't imagine the feelings you must have at times.
Hugs,
Ciara
I coose to remain single and childless because I love sampling women. I am not a moralist, but I could never put a wife or children in the path my torrid lust for women.
what exactly are we 'obligated' to tell our clients?
Many of us ladies are married, have an SO, etc. and that is kept guarded and private. In fact, I have seen where it seems BEST to not have the gentlemen know our 'status' with personal relationships.
When does it become our obligation to tell clients that we have a SO in our life?
Comments?
if a client gets too carried away and you don't want him to know about your personal life, then it's time to break it off, don't you think? It sounds like this guy wants more from her from the way her post reads. However, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder," so he may have just given her the ring as a token of friendship. The guy must be loaded with $$$$$$.
For some rich people, an expensive ring means nothing to give away. For others, it's a significant gesture of more romantic feelings. It's best that she defines it and is comfortable with the arrangement.
Hugs,
Ciara
I think you are obligated only as far as you choose.
I know many providers who wish to keep the knowledge of their marriages or live-in SO's private. They want to keep the fantasy alive that they are single and eligiible.
Since the poster doesn't want a romantic relationship, she can honestly tell the client she doesn't want to overstep any boundaries--without having to mention her marital status.
She needs to make sure he knows, though--it would be unfair to lead him on. She takes the chance the client will be hurt and stop seeing her (thus losing income). It has happened to me more than once--it's not fun losing a client (and the income) but you must be honest with him if he falls for you and you don't reciprocate his feelings.
On the other hand, it may be simply a case of an affluent client who is fond of the lady--doesn't want to run off with her--but enjoys bestowing extra gifts and money.
In that case, she should sit back, have fun with her client, and enjoy the bounty!
If you notice your hubby just bought a 12" hunting knife! At least a 10 seconds heads-up just before he kicks the hotel door in.
Providers are in the business of creating a fantasy that begins and ends at the hotel room door, in my opinion, so there is no obligation to share personal information.
What I have found fascinating about a couple of ladies whom I have seen lately is that we "talked about everything", but upon reflection, there was not a single item of personal information shared by the provider. Those were masterful performances!
Good gravy! I don't want to hear about any husbands or steady beaus! Let's add infidelity and whatever that "covet" word means to my long list of "good-boy-list of-midwestern-guilt".
I imagine it could arouse a guy to hear about your S.O. then do the deed... everyone is different. I would think you wouldn't tell any guy about your S.O. until he was a trusted regular otherwise you could put the S.O. in danger, couldn't you?
I think in Paramour's specific situation it sounds like she spends more time with this guy than some husbands spend with their S.O.'s and the fantasy is, maybe, blurred for him. Maybe he's in love with her and maybe he's not...I'd have to look in his eyes when she's around...and a ring means big things for some folk and nothing to others. If this guy is harmless it may help him to know about the hubby... Keeping the "temporary boyfriend" status in tact.
I, personally, think it does not have to be divulged. It certainly should not be the typical part of discussion. However, in this case, if the lady feels uncomfortable, then maybe she should, but it's up to her. I think whatever works for the individual is the right thing to do -- end of story.
Hugs,
Ciara
so what I'm saying is, what is right? Keep it to ourselves because it's really our business, or tell them, or tell them only if it became 'necessary'?
Also, I venture that most ladies have some sort of SO in their lives. What do you think?
Sedona,
It is pretty simple. It is none of our fucking business how you live your personal life. Are you tested? Do you like certain things we want? The cost of your services? Yes we are entitled to that information, but beyond that....
If you and I were married or SO's there would be expectations hopefully set prior to us getting together, but the best a hobbiest can expect is that you provide the best service for the dollar.
If they want the fantasy that you are 21, never married, no kids etc, well give them what they want, but make sure they understand it is part of the package they are buying. If they want you to be 55 , married and have six kids tell them it is so. LoL, but the truth is your choice in this matter.
I am not paying for your personal life I'm paying for your time or (ehemmmm). You give personal stuff to me because you want to, freely, not because I am a client.
So do or don't, but there should never be an expectation of the truth about who you really are during a paid for fantasy.
If the ladies here all have SOs I hope that they are loved and love freely. I hope that they are able to be honest and safe in their relationships. I hope that their life is being defined by who they are, not what they do for a living.
every relationship is different, including Provider/Hobbiest. After a "getting to know you" period these two people can click...still strictly business...and talk about each other's kids and S.O.'s and pets and schools. It would simply be another kind of nurturing relationship like going to therapy (with added physical features I wish the counseling profession would consider embracing.) You can be honest friends and still conduct business. So the fascinating appeal of this thread is the human factor...that friendship, sex, fantasy, carnal lust, whatever, can overlap in unique ways. They don't essentially overlap, but can, depending on the unique individuals involved.
Again, on the bottom line, I'm with The Bear on this...no one has an obligation to reveal anything they don't want to. Both folks need to know going in what is private and what isn't for each of them... and then expect to adapt when those unexpected things called emotions pop up.
love,
Jockeypants,
founder of:
"Sleep with your Patients" Counseling Services.
Almost never. Nor your real name, nor your personal (as distinct from business) phone number, your street address, etc. Only in exceptional circumstances might it become necessary or desirable to reveal any of these things.
But I think you'll agree that we have an exceptional circumstance on our hands here. She's come pretty close to painting herself into a 'whatever I do now is wrong' corner. If she can tell him without undue risk to her safety it might be the best thing.
Yeah, I know there are some guys who think because they've bought an hour or two of your time this information is their's by right. Too friggin' bad for them. They need to be taught better, and sooner better than later. My own view is that you can't blame a guy for being curious, but a gentleman always knows how to take no for an answer.
For more context, please see my post to the main thread. Now you of course are far too wise to ever get yourself into such a pickle in the first place.
...or anything else about her life.
But there's not hard, fast rule about this, I'd say. Providers have to use their best judgment. If the client is stepping outside the boundaries, it may be best for him to know then. However, in some cases, it might just make things worse. Jealous guys are bound to get bugged about the SO having favored status.
I'm finding it better to just assume that the provider is taken, that she has an SO even if he/she is never seen, or might as well have one. It doesn't diminish my time with her to remind myself of this. I'm not out to wreck her marriage or SO relationship. In fact, I hope my donations contribute to its success.
/Zin
However, choosing to disclose that information is a decision only you can make.
I like to ask about SO's, boyfriends with my ladies because it allows me a little better insite to them. They know I'm married, and it wouldn't make any difference to me, whether they were or not.
I have to confess that if a lady I had seen was not willing to "share" information with me, I probably not see her again. I am very particular who I see for that reason. I am not a "notches in the belt" kind of guy. A few good close "friends is what I look for.
The ladies I have known I have formed very nice friendships with, so we do know some personel things about each others lives. Not everything, of course, but enought to allow us to talk to each other as friends about things going on in our lives.
Just my opinion...
B
But, if she has a SO, how does she do overnighters every other week without arrousing (no pun intended) suspicion?
I have to say these threads I see about people having feelings either way are a somewhat refreshing. When I first came here I didn't expect it, especially after the way the VIP reviews really spell things out. It's just not my style to want to know specifically what other folks are up to.
I've been participating for several years to take care of physical needs after what felt like dry spells. It was physical, and that was it. A month ago I see someone's visiting who's ad I had seen in the past and liked. We hook up A LOT and I find this woman a very refreshing change from other providers I had seen as well as civilian gals. The way she led her life was very inspiring.
So anyway, I kept how I was feeling regarding the business her and the real her inside, and now I need to wait til whenever she returns. I hate when I do that.
She said I could contact her while she was travelling, so I did to say hi how are ya. Haven't heard back yet, but it's ok. I mean, she at least knows I'm reliable, and who knows what she's up to now? For all I know she could be in Haiti digging people out. So I can still risk everything, which on one hand sounds nutty, but on the other hand, when I'm talking human connection, 'tis better to have etc.
By declining to accept the ring, you HAVE set boundaries and made your position clear. Actions speak louder than words. No need to explain yourself any further. If he sees you again, as it were, fine. If not, then it was a great ride.
then are compelled to get you even bigger diamond rings (preferably set in platinum). With the precious metal and diamond market currently doing well, you could sell this entire treasure of wealth and purchase some very hot Southern California real estate. Then you can turn that property over into a much larger home which you can eventually sell and retire most comfortably. You and your husband then can just drink, smoke and relax together while watching the sunset everyday. If you ever get bored with such a relaxed lifestyle, you and your husband can open a jewelry store so you can sell diamond rings to guys so they can give them to their temporary girlfriends.
Hopefully this may serve as some sort of solution to your dilemma.
-- Modified on 5/26/2004 2:42:54 PM
is when a client takes the first step over them, not wait until he's deep in the heartland of your private territory. This is a lesson for the future, it's obviously too late to do that in the present situation.
You don't say explicitly, but I get the idea he doesn't know that you have a SO. Maybe it looks like an egagement ring because that's exactly what he means it to be. Does he know you're married, or even have a steady boyfriend?
Does hubby know what you do? Is the explaining just because he doesn't want it going beyond the physical or is he completely in the dark. I hope for your sake it's the former. Not just because it'll make this incident easier to handle. The client can't very well hurt you by outing you to hubby if hubby already knows. Gives you more options. You could tell the client if you think it would help. With nothing to lose I think you should.
If hubby doesn't know, you're headed for trouble down the line no matter what. Unless you've already decided that the marraige is going nowhere and it's only a matter of when.
You sound like a caring enough person that you're not trying to take the guy and the hell with the consequences to him. In the future, I'd say cut this kind of thing off at the pass. Don't accept that first extravagent gift. You can make it very clear that you meant it when you first explained your limits, and you can do it without giving offense.
He began to believe you weren't really a provider after all, or that he might upgrade you to an "honorable woman" with just some charm, generosity and love. Emotionally, he had reached the point where he was no longer satisfied with you being just a provider for him, or perhaps wanted more good to come from his sexual adventures with you. Whatever fantasy he had surrounding this, he had forgotten, or disregarded the boundaries of a client/provider relationship.
Unfortunately, I think it's likely you've lost him as a client, now, no fault of your own. The relationship has perhaps run its course. Maybe after he regains his footing and recovers he'll contact you again, but I doubt this. I think the whole episode probably has him rocking and reeling. I just hope his response to shame is not to take it out on you.
The only way to have *not* to have offended him in that circumstance would have been to take him for all he's worth, and of course, that would have offended him and shamed him later, over a longer time, and have done much more damage to him. His guard had dropped. You did the right thing.
On behalf of my beleagured sex, I thank you for having mercy and showing honor here, and, as a newbie, I feel a personal sense of relief. Providers again show that they are better than the reputation made up for them.
/Zin
Mr.X knows that I am married. I have always been very honest about that with everyone! The only one in my life who doesn't know about my discreet rendevous is my hubby. Had My SO actually attempted to satisfy my sexual desires I would never have decided to look elsewhere for that attention. I love my SO but refuse to live a celibate lifestyle just because he is a dud. Mr.X is completely aware of my personal life and says he's fine with it, but I have never ever had anyone bestow upon me the grandious amount of unsolicited gifts that he does so regularly. I see him almost biweekly and it is always a wonderous evening (shopping, dinner, theater-opera or ballet, he read plato to me after we are too exhausted to move and he is a mind blowing lover!) I had lunch with him today and he mentioned this post. He made it clear that he does not want to marry me, he just like to take care of me and would like to make it possible for me not have to be a provider unless I want to spend time with someone else....that is all very sweet but I feel like I am damned if I do and damned if I don't! I really do love his company and would hate to lose him as a special friend. When I try to give his expensive gifts back, he makes me feel somewhat ungrateful as If I do not like them, but I feel guilty keeping such fine things. this ring is unbelievable 1.11 carat marquise solitare platimun band....I have never seen anything like it before. I just got it back from the jewelers for resizing and they estimated it's value at 4200.00 I immediately insured it out of fear of losing it, and then him asking for it's return. I think all of you made several valid points...I guess my main question is....Is this behavior normal for wealthy hobbyists? I am used to extravigant gifts when I am on a date with a gentleman...but I think his out of pocket cost extremely exceeds the amount of time that I spend with him. I am new to all this and confused as to how I should react to such lavish attentions and gifts. Please do not look badly upon me...I honestly tried to return the ring, but he said he would only take it back if I decided not to see him again...he is just too awesme a lover to let go over a gift or two.
Mr.X.- you know I always look forward to seeing you and although I love your gifts I began this post in hopes of gaining some insight upon what is proper and acceptable within the realm of this hobby. You are by far one of the most talented lovers I have ever known and have no desire to end our friendship, but I must admit you always keep me guessing! I am elated that you find me so alluring when there are so many beautiful ladies at your disposal who are by far much more experienced in how graciously accept or deny gifts of your caliber. BTW...hope you liked your home cooked meal. Took your suits to the dry cleaners on my way out they should be ready to be picked up Thursday afternoon...they close at 6pm so don't be late. See you next Month!
Kisses!
KAty
I really don't like to speak for others, but I can understand why he does it.
He does it because he can and he wants to for you. To him you are worth it. So accept it.
Don't read so much into things. Do like NM says and wear it like a fine set of lingiere.
There is a children's book by Jon Muth called "the three questions". It is an adaptation of a tolstoy story. The last paragraph says:
"Remember then that there is always one important time, and that time is now. The most important one is always the one you are with. And the most important thing is to do good for the one who is standing at your side. For these, my dear, are the answers to what is most important in the world."
Just be yourself and all will be well.
Now let me answer a few questions...yes I am married. Hubby is a wonderful man who has forgotten he has a dick, unfortunately. I think this will be one of those marriages that dies a very slow painful death and is very likely in it's last gasp stage as we speak.I was the faithfull churchgoing housemouse for over 8 years until I just couldn't take anymore sexual neglect and decided to satiafy my needs elsewhere. When I found this hobby I found a little slice of heaven on a silver platter!What a wonderous adventure to have all the sex I want- no strings attached- along with some extra funds to make life much more livable! I do not do this full time, and I have 2 jobs in real life, and most often my regulars take excellent care of me. Most of them are really good friends. I spend 98% of my free time alone and it is nice to have their company and attention. Maybe I do go over the boundaries a bit. I have mended their clothing, made trips to the dry cleaners, housesit for them while they are on trips so their kitties and puupies don't go without vittles, listen to the marital woes and work issues, even shopped for and wrapped anniversary and birthday gifts for their SO...but I like all that stuff & we both benefit from it. The fact that they trust me enough to confide their deepest thoughts and feelings in me is an awesome feeling. But they all know where I stand. I don't want the strings and baggage that sucks the life out of a good love life. I care for my special friends but even if I do get divorced I DO NOT want another commitment....I am very content in the lifestyle that this hobby allows me. I am not one of those providers who try to get one over on the hobbyist. I tend to be a very personable lady. I am open about my life with everyone in all aspects of it.
I love TER! I love the fact that we can throw our questions, feelings and delimmas on the board and actually get some really good advice. My lil TER family has helped me in learning this hobby and guided me in my growth as a provider...most of my temporary boyfriends are members here and I always look forward to checking the board each day. I want to say Thank you to all of you...even the ones who sent me the mean emails about how truely immoral they think I am....lol. I value and respect all of your opinions and thoughts and appreciate you taking time out of your busy day to lend me your ear and advice. Take Care, Have Fun, and Stay Safe!
Happy Hobbying to All!
Katy
You're the first lady I've heard of whose husband doesn't know what she does (unless her husband was stationed in Siberia, LOL). How do you pull it off?
I'm single, live alone, and I have trouble juggling this biz with my casual boyfriends. ("sorry, sweetie, I can't see you this Friday night--umm, have to go shopping.")
There's no way I could pull this off secretly if I lived with someone. Phone calls...emails....accidentally leaving the website on the computer screen on for a second when you run to the bathroom...
And, since you think a divorce is on the way, you'd better be extremely careful not to be found out now. An irate husband with an aggressive lawyer---a moralistic judge sitting in chambers---neither bodes well for you in the settlement.
You sound like a very sweet lady, but boy, you are tempting the fates at this time. Good luck!
No, I am sure he suspects that I am having sex with someone but I don't believe he has a clue as to the extent of secret sex life. I sing with a band on a regular basis and in Hotel management my hours have always been awkward. It was nothing for me to be on stage with the band and not come home timme the next day because I do not drink and drive. I remember how I used to beg him to go with me....some of my friends even thought for a time that I had made him up to hide the fact that I was secretly a lesbian...lol. We have been together over 8 years and have only been on 2 dates that whole time lol...he is a hermit. I realized I was living the life of a single woman with all the restrictions of a married one...that just isn't fair. Men would ask me out and bring me gifts all the time and they actually wanted to spend time with me! For years I had thought it must be my fault because my SO ignored me all the time. But the more men that asked me out and the more attention I found outside of my home I finally realized there isn't anything wrong with me, something is wrong with my SO. I honestly could not imagine not having him in my life, but do not plan on leaving this hobby anytime soon. I am trying hard to save enough money to buy my own home, and if he chooses to come with me I would love that, but if not ...so mote it be. I figure I am not giving away anything he actually wants so even if he does find out I would have a hard time mustering feelings of guilt about it. My only fear actually is STD's, but I am careful and get tested quarterly just in case.
It is hard leading a secret life but when the SO doesn't ask where you are then you don't have to lie or volunteer any information. My phone is only on when I traveling or on my way to meet a client, I Never leave a window open on my computer if I am not sitting right therein front of it. And I don't write anything down period. I pay for everything in cash and never leave a paper trail! My best Friends and my parents are the only peopl who know about my secret life. Unfortunately it tends to be a bit lonely from time to time...I can't come home from a bad day "at the office" and vent my frustrations, this is not socially acceptable by any means and even the few that know are vey uncomfortable if I mention anything like that. They know where I am at all times and check in on my regularly for safety but other than that mum is the word. I guess that is why I love this board so much...here we can vent our frustrations, ask questions and gain perspective. You all are too cool!
Best Wishes!
Katy
You are saying that you believe he suspects that you are having sex with somebody - and he is not asking any questions where you are? Do you know where he is and what he is doing when you are gone?
I envy the relationship you must be having with your parents! Telling them what you do must have been hard and hard for them to accept it...
Good luck in the future - hope you find what you are looking for
lmao...I always know where my SO is 24/7 cause he never goes anywhere but to work....sad isn't it. I honestly wonderif he is a enuch or gay one of the two...but man when he finally does put out it is beyond mindblowing and he can eat a peach for days! Gene Simmons has nothing on my SO.
I thank God everyday for the relationship that I have with my parents...they took it much better than I expected them to. Considering when I was 18 I was a dancer and my dad found out next thing I knew he was draggin my damn near naked ass off the stage wrapping me up in his coat and carted me home for the beating of a lifetime! It wasn't pretty..lol. But I sat them both down and explained my reasoning behind my decision to begin this hobby and the benefits my children would have from it as well. Both my parents are disabled and my dad is terminal. I guess they can deal with it knowing that I will be financially capable of taking care of Mom and my older sister who is handicapped as well. I figured I had to tell someone just in case something happened like LE or worse. I didn't want my parents to find out from some other source...the newspaper or the coroner. I am glad I told them first, it makes this triple life I lead much easier to maintain.