Recently, there was a thread on this board that started with Veronica of Philly suggesting she was contemplating a trip to CHI. For my part - as a hobbyist from neither CHI nor Philly, but planning a return trip to CHI shortly - I was surprised by the attitude of the handful of TER members (?) who suggested quite rudely that she not make the effort to go to the Windy City of she required pre-payment. I note her post like that on another board was NOT met with such negative and counterproductive posting. The apparent "logic" of the opposition to her coming appears to have been that we can't trust providers and so no one in his right mind would pre-pay for services. This is a short sighted and truly baseless position in this case, in this hobby in light of TER. There are a number of very good reasons a well established, well regarded and highly sought after provider like Veronica might require prepayment and may of those have already been listed on other posts in that original thread so I think it would be unnecessary for me to repeat them here.
What I think bears saying; however, is that the "we can't trust providers" attitude those posts suggested runs counter to the very reason we have and use TER. Think about it a minute, why do we search for providers by characteristics we like? Why do we write reviews? I would hope that it's for better reasons than simply to get "VIP" status and that it's in an effort to share meaningful and current information so we KNOW MORE about a given provider. For example, her timeliness, her attitude, the "vibe" she gives off. Unless you're LE trying to find a way to snag a lady, you're searching thru TER to become an informed consumer. As it relates to Veronica in the previous thread, for example, one has to simply scroll thru her reviews to find the many positive reviews describing her timeliness and trustworthiness and, if we trust the reviews relative to her activities, why not relative to her trustworthiness as it relates to pre-payment?
We do ourselves and TER a disservice when we post that a provider can't be trusted out of hand rather than doing the research we'd do in any other context. We search reviews for performance and attitude and trust those reviews when making decisions on who to see, so then why would one not trust information clearly suggesting trustworthiness time and again?
Let's not loose sight of the value of TER in all it's different ways and let me suggest we temper our posts with a little more common sense. In the interest of full disclosure, yes, I saw Veronica once when she and I were both in San Diego. Yes, I prepaid her for her time having never seen her before BASED ON THE REVIEWS OF OTHER TER members and yes my review was positive.
There is no question that Veronica is legit and is probably a marvelous provider. There are marvelous providers here in Chicago and that also visit Chicago that don't require prepayment. I have prepaid once, only because I made arrangements with the provider for an extended stay.
We have marvelous restaurants here in Chicago. Even Charlie Trotter's wouldn't ask one to prepay for a meal.
I'm sure if she simply came, her time would be filled by the many hobbyists that providers come back to Chicago for time and time again. TER is a great tool, but it is only a tool.
Ok, Trotter's may not, but United Airlines surely asks you to pay in advance - on line even - for a ticket to fly to wherever. TER asks you to pay for your VIP membership for X days in advance. Priceline asks you to pay for your fight, or hotel or whatever in advance. Payment in advance for a service is not so unusual. If you don't want to fly, you don't pay for your ticket in advance. If you don't want to see Veronica, you don't pay in advance. We make choices. United wants payment in advance for a list of reasons. Veronica has her list of reasons. In both cases - whether United or Veronica - they'll make concessions or there are consequences if you're unwilling to make that advance payment. United flight attendants could go on strike and your flight would be cancelled, you're left with a largely worthless ticket at the ticket counter. Someone suggested Veronica might not make it to Chicago and so your "flight" with her might be cancelled. In both cases, it's a matter of trust that you'll get your money back if the service provider cancels. We trust United because we know their reputation. THAT was the point I was trying to make with respect to Veronica and TER.
My whole point was that this shouldn't be about payment in advance if we're using TER as it would seem to be intended: for our research and establish a level of trust. We establish a level of trust that Veronica - or whoever we're interested in seeing - will treat us as we'd like to be treated and we establish that they're not ROBs or LE because we research them on TER. Without it, we're back to calling agencies and dealing with ROBs or service that turns out to be less than expected.
As one that replied to that thread in the negative I will chime in, and I am from the Chicago area. Do I pay inadvance when i go out to dinner? "No". Do I pay in advance when I want to by a car? "No". Do I pay in advance when I take my car in for service? "No". Sure you can come up with more situations, Like I do pay in advance for Cable TV and trust me that ticks me off cause their service sucks (And not in the good way.)
The jist of this is, why would I want to give this provider that came off with a bit of an attitude advanced payment. That gives her no incentive to perform her best service. Just like when I go into a resteraunt and they comp the TIPS. TIPS is an Acronym. (To Insure Prompt Service) When you already have the cash guarenteed why perform.
Besides there are better hotter providers here in Chicago, that don't require pre payment. If that happens then I am out of the hobby.
First of all, perhaps those who posted negatively towards the issue of prepayment were simply conveying their personal opinions and trying to use an excuse to back up their opinion.
Now you may argue that the info supplied by TER refutes those excuses, but that can only hold true if all the info on TER were completely accurate. There are plenty of false reviews on this site. Also, TER's stance on advertisement, provider requests and other issues prevent many informative reviews from ever making the database.
Then there is the issue that the reviews which are here, may be more subjective than objective.
My last arguement is with regards to your analogy of prepaying the various public services... Airlines, web services etc. etc. If a customer prepays any of these companies and are not satisfied with their service, do they have some recourse available to them? Most definitely. But what about prepaying for a service deemed illegal by law? Do you have legal recourse if stiffed by a provider?? Hardly... show me a cop who'll listen to your complaint of fraud under those circumstances.
If a provider wants a deposit... fine... but I think the majority of the Windy City clientele is not going to pay it and she will find business here may not be worth her efforts.
Similarly, I am not from Philly or Chicago. I first saw Veronica two years and have made almost a dozen subsequent visits. All of which were extremely fullfilling, physically and mentally!
Old-times here will/do recall Diana of Dallas who has a simlar policy of prepayment prior to arriving and never accepting "walk-in" clients once in town. A good safety precaution. Both Diana and Veronica have spotless track records concerning their integrity. Otherwise, they'd be long gone from bad reviews.
Generally, I do NOT pre-pay but the two women I mentioned are indeed exceptions to MY rule. I understand the oppostion's arguement and agree in principle BUT I would *never* actively engage in steering potential clients away from these women just because of the prepayment issue.
That is a choice to be made by each hobbyist. It's not a criteria, in and of itself, to determine if you'd see that woman.
From my personal experience, Veronica is the sweetest woman you'll ever meet. I have no doubt she'll book solid in Chicago, as she does in NYC, Boston, SD, and elsewhere.
Furthermore, I doubt a handful of skeptics can speak for all of Chicago's hobbyists.
Have Fun!
And money is control, once they give up the money, they give up the control. Guys don't what to give up the power to cancel on a provider in a moments notice, Veronica's policy takes away that power and reduces her no-shows which if you read on many boards is a real problem for touring providers. Now some may say "that no-shows are just part of the biz", it doesn't have to be and Veronica found her own way of dealing with it. To quote Shakespere "Thou protest to much", The more people yell the wronger they are, if you can't deal with Veronica's policy just shut up, don't tell others not to see this amazing provider, I seen her several times and has always been the perfect "date". You don't want to prepay, your loss. I will continue to see her and prepay.
Respectfully, everyone is entitled to their opinions on deposits. I just dont see how when a TER member says they don't like them and suggests a provider not require them, that is somehow not using the board properly. No one is attacking Veronica. She wanted to know what we thought about her coming. Some said that they do not see ladies who demand prepayment.
Thats what this board is for, primarily I believe, for people to share their opinions on providers practices? We can disagree without being accused of not using the board properly, I would think.
For my part , I believe a vast majority of clients in Chicago will not begin to prepay for appts... if I am wrong I am wrong. No harm done. The ladies are free to ask for them if they wish.
I posted on the last thread. I gave my opinion and response to her original post/advertisement. I am sick today. If I had an appointment with her that was pre-paid I am SOL! I am sure she would not want to see me with the big time cold I have. If I show up she gets sick and that ruins her stay here. I normally book for 2 hours so, through no fault of my own, I am out $$$ because I am a gentleman who would not share this wonderfull (LOL) big time cold with her. That is not right either!
-- Modified on 3/2/2004 3:11:56 PM
I'm thinking my point's been lost in the translation here. The underlying concept we need to remember in this hobby is that it's largely about trust. From the guy's side of it, we're interested in avoiding LE and ROBs. We do that one of two ways: 1) by seeing only ladies we know and have developed trust with or 2) researching the reviews (not the board, I've NEVER said we're misusing the "board" but the individual reviews) to evaluate whether or not we can trust and would like to see a given provider. The original thread relative to Veronica went on and on in a vein something like this: "stay away, no one can trust a provider, we're not sending you money in advance, you charge too much." While that was unnecessarily mean spirited, I'm not addressing her published rates (which are very comparable to another provider who recently listed here on the Chicago board about visiting soon!), what I was writing about had to do with whether or not we can trust anyone at any time to send them money in advance.
In the context of this hobby and with TER in mind, my position was and is that BEFORE anyone should jump on the "we're not sending a provider anything in advance" bandwagon, we need to think of why we subscribe to TER in the first place. Sure, there are fake reviews and reviewers - some no doubt LE - but after many dozens of them for a given provider, I don't believe that is at issue here. The question is, does any one individual provider interest you enough for you to abide by HER rules? If not, go elsewhere. Give an agency your credit card over the phone sight unseen for a provider who may or may not show up at your door......or, research here on TER.
My point was that it's not unusual for a travelling provider to ask for money in advance and that we SHOULD make a "go-no-go" choice about seeing someone based on what we see in the TOTALITY of their reviews on TER. I still contend that was the reason we subscribe to TER and the way we should be using our memberships. Otherwise, why not just call some agency from the yellow pages, spin that wheel and, while you're at it, give them your credit card number over the phone.
This is a discussion board. To have a good discussion people need to give their honest opinions on a subject. I posted on the last thread and was never "mean spirted". People gave their opinions and conclusions. She asked our opinion in her original post. Don't ask for someones opinion unless you can handle it! I have seen many traveling providers and never been asked for money up front!
I am a Roomservice member and the provider is given that information. I had one visiting provider post a "no show" report on me. We had a "tentative" appointment before her posted hours. She never checked her voice mail. I had left a message at the time I told her I would call and confirm. We were trying to squeeze in an appointment before her posted hours. She did not have her phone on and I left 2 voice messages cancelling and apologizing. I called later in the day and she was mad as hell that I no showed and didn't call. I told her to check her voice mail and call me back. She apologized but never called Roomservice to correct her no show report. I called Roomservice and got things straightened out!
She can check my Roomservice reference and make her own informed decision! After all you have written here I still would never pre-pay! Iowa Hotty is in town and her reviews are fantastic. I will see her and she does not require "pre-payment". She looks fantastic and her reviews are fantastic! She even charges a bit less!
This thread is off track.. Let me sum it up...
1) a provider has the right to ask for prepayment
2) a provider has the right not to provide service to someone that doesnt meet her prepayment requirement
3) a consumer has the right not to prepay
4) a consumer has the right choose any other provider that doesnt require prepayment
5) This business is fairly shady and your analogies legitimate business are baseless because those disputes can be settled in court where these disputes cannot
6) Typically the consumer prepays at the scene anyway, before the quality, nature and extent of the service is determined.
7) Without being "mean-spirited" I think it would be foolish to prepay one provider when there are other ones that do not have such a requirement.
8) As for the armchair shrink with the "control issue" theory.. You are clearly a female no matter what you claim to be.. Guys should have one control issue....they should ultimately have control over their own wallet....if you are ok with sending money out of town, I will be the first one to say that you certainly have the right to do so