I was skimming through some of the threads and was shocked to read where a well-reviewed and esteemed provider mentioned she had been shorted more than once lately with the donation.
I've only been shorted once or twice (by regulars, in an honest mistake), and never been shorted deliberately. You TER guys have been great--always gentlemen and a step above other clients from Eros or other advertising venues. That's why I was so shocked to read the post below.
I'm sure I am preaching to the choir here, but if a guy can't afford a lady's fee, he should either ask politely for a discount, or ask to be notified when she has a special, or (best) save up until he can afford to see her.
Don't be sneaky and shave off $20 or $30 or more from the price. Not only do you show yourself to be cheap and disrespectful, you also burn bridges--do you think you will get to see her again, or will get a reference?
In my city, there was a guy who was shorting providers $20 or $25 per visit. Each time the girl thought it was a simple mistake and was embarrassed to tell him--until one girl got shorted twice in a row, started asking other girls about him, and then they realized his scheme. Needless to say, he was blacklisted and is having a hard time seeing any providers now.
I've shorted providers inadvertently (only twice, to be exact), as recently as last week. I think, as awkward as it is, you ladies should speak up so that any misunderstanding can be cleared on the spot. Business is business.
I discovered my mistake when I put on the same pants the next morning and found a $20 bill which didn't belong there. Called her up that evening and made arrangements to make it up. Had to do it. Personal honor and all that.
I have to agree, if the donation's too high for someone, go elsewhere.
-- Modified on 4/22/2004 3:02:11 PM
-- Modified on 4/22/2004 3:33:18 PM
This must be my week to be naieve -- I don't believe it! They short the provider??
Okay, having calmed down, I have to think that the guy who shorts providers by $20 or $30 or even more is like the rich man or woman who shoplifts. It's NOT about money -- it's all about abuse, control, feeling that you're getting "something" for nothing, and making the other person powerless.
What's sad is that many providers, either for LE reasons or because they're just classy ladies, take the donation and don't even count it while the gent is there.
Nicking somebody for twenty bucks is just cheap, but stealing someone's trust is unforgiveable.
-- Modified on 4/22/2004 3:09:38 PM
suffering from clinical depression.
would feel insulted by a lady checking the "gift" before business was done?
I can't believe that even a provider who is widely recognized as top level would not check her "gift" with a first time client. Maybe it is just me, but I would never feel it was out of line, especially if it was done discreetly and not standing there right in front of the guy. On the second date, then I could see a provider having that comfort level, but I myself would never be offended by checking on the first date.
Am I naive?
to ask the lady to count the donation before I left, just in case. Now so many put on their websites "money is NEVER, EVER to mentioned" that I've gotten out of the habit. Maybe I should go back. I mean, at the end of a session what LE worries could remain?
Especially with a guy she's never dated before. It makes it seem like she's offering her sexual services for the amount given. aka solicitation
I don't know any girls that are savvy that deal with money prior to a date. Even talk of it is usually out of line.
Elise [email protected]
I didn't say they did it the minute they/I walked in the door, or that there was necessarily "discussion" of it, or that they hadn't checked if I was for real in other ways before they even picked up the envelope, or that they did it in sight of me. As always, the "gift" is for time only, but if we talk and enjoy ourselves and decide to do something and don't put $ around it, TFB, LE.
Sheesh.
-- Modified on 4/23/2004 3:05:10 PM
Never did it........Never will
This response to the thread may sound hostile, but under counting a provider's money is completely avoidable.
I actually walked out and drove off forgetting to leave the gift. Nothing had been said by either of us during the session.At least a half hour later,Just at the same time as I was turning my truck arround I got the phone call. She was polite and asked me if I had realized and I told her I was allready on my way back Needless to say I was totally embarassed and worried wether she would belive it was an honest mistake. Well I added a nice tip for a time so good "I forgot it was a service". I felt so embarassed that I was reluctant to call again for almost a year. Then after joining TER and talking to her on the Atl board I recieved an invitation(And a challenge). Well I'm happy to say we are better friends for it.
I'm sure the LADY your refering to will address this if she wishes, but I'll tell you your not talking about $25--$30.
It seems creeps out there that know its against her nature to count money in front of them or even request it be discreetly in view are clearly taking advantage. I'm so pissed I better stop here.
I was leaving the hotel room after seeing my ATF for the umpteenth time, when she kinda emarassedly asked, did you put the, um, you know, donation someplace else? I realized that in my haste to hug and kiss her when I arrived that it was still in my pocket, I felt like an idiot and apologized. But that was one time, more than once and it's NOT an accident.
and it pissed me off. I know the guy was cheap anyway and I was already giving him a great deal, so it made it worse when I was shorted $40. Come on . . . you should count the money twice, then put it in an envelope and set it on the table in clear sight (like my website suggests). That way, you know you're being honest and the provider does not have to ask for the money. Let's have some class, people.
Hugs,
Ciara
But then I always remind myself of the time when I went to buy a pair of shoes, and got into such an indepth conversation with the proprietor of the store to the extent that I started walking out the door with the shoes ... had he not said anything, I would have kept going until I remembered, and then depending on the situation may not have been able to get back right away. Of course, I would have called, but then here is where character comes in.
Unfortunately, there really is no foolproof screening of character, and the worst case scenario is when on two separate occasions, with two different, longterm clients who were having cashflow problems, each decided (on his own, without my input) that because they would no be able to afford to see me anymore, the last visit was on me.
Because of the similarity of circumstances, I pieced this together over time, because in each case, I had gently called each one of them afterwards and asked each of them if had they forgotten about my needs?
THIS IS WHY it's good to get the transaction OUT OF THE WAY, so everyone can relax. Sort of like the final chapter of 'SCREENING'.
-- Modified on 4/22/2004 6:53:27 PM
-- Modified on 4/22/2004 6:44:58 PM
in fact it truly blows me away that 99% of them leave their wallets out while they are off in the showers. Course they might have an empty wallet, but still, I wouldn't know or care. It's their business. And I choose to take the gesture as an outstanding compliment.
-- Modified on 4/22/2004 8:42:58 PM
the shower. I figure it is a sign of trust. Got burned once, but got my wallet back within hours. But that is another story!
The idea that anyone would short a provider is appalling.
I always tell the providers who I see that I have rules, and one of my rules is that the envelope will contain the correct amount and if I somehow made a mistake they ARE to tell me and I WILL correct it. Thankfully, none have told me that I've failed to count correctly!
My other rule is that I follow THEIR rules. LOL.
"In my city, there was a guy who was shorting providers $20 or $25 per visit. Each time the girl thought it was a simple mistake and was embarrassed to tell him--until one girl got shorted twice in a row, started asking other girls about him, and then they realized his scheme. Needless to say, he was blacklisted and is having a hard time seeing any providers now."
A perfect example of "Karma" catching up to someone!.
A most generous-hearted provider I know just recently had a TER member short her "alot". I was really disheartened by this and would like to take this opportunity to remind the community as a whole that 'ye reap what ye sow"
YKSY
We embody what we put out. It's really all so inseparable.
A few months ago I did an overnight with a lady and accidentally short changed her $200. I am not really sure how it happened, I had a mountain of $20's from the ATM and must have mis counted. I was quite upset when I had learned what happend, I felt terrible since intentional shorting is a scumbag move and mine was truly accidental.
Anyway, she never contancted me to about the donation error. When I tried to book with her on her next visit in town and she just blew me off. When I finally got a hold of her she said it was because of the shortage in funds on our first appt. I apologized profusely (I really felt terrible) and offered to immediately send her a check or pay pal transfer, etc. for the $200 plus a tip but she refused. Even though I tried to explain it was an accident she didn't want any part of hearing it, or ever booking with me again.
I was crushed to think that she viewed me as a total scumbag when it wasn't true. I guess she doesn't know me "from Adam" and the expression "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" comes to mind!
Guys...always count your donation. There's nothing worse than having a great lady that had ATF potential wrongly think your a total dirtbag!!
so much pain happens, then decisions are made, and one chooses not to go back.
I sometimes wonder how much value a client puts on these delicately orchestrated encounters, filled to the brim with anticipation and anxiety like whipped creme in a pastry, when one cannot at least prepare the donation such as that type of delicacy would require a cloth napkin and silver.
Even I as a client of my providers, consider this, to elevate myself over my negative experiences from my own clients. Then to have compassion as to what my providers must endure through my lack of neglect towards them at times.
Still, as a provider, I am ALWAYS delighted and very impressed with the creativity and wonderful attention I seem to be showered with most of the time from those on that elevated level.
School is still in session, heheheheh.
And before I forget or neglect to say, KUDOS to you ThomasD
-- Modified on 4/22/2004 8:57:40 PM
to be a mistake, because he was a very fine gentleman, and this would have been out of character for him to do so intentionally.
I did talk with him about it and we figured it out. I was glad I was right about him.
But why didn't you contact her inststead of waiting for her to take the initiative? I'm quite certain that the result of your attempt to see her again would have been very different.
I had no idea the donation was off. I counted my mountain of $20 dollar bills from the ATM on the cab ride to her hotel. I tucked hers in an envelope and stuffed the rest in my wallet (damn ATM's need to be hobby friendly and give us $100's!). I never gave it a second thought until I tried to rebook with her a month or so later and she wouldn't respond to my emails. Finally I got her on her cell phone and she told me to pound sand.
She chose not to contact me when she discovered the shortage which was a shame. I would love to have been able to clear it up without any hard feelings.
-- Modified on 4/22/2004 10:40:47 PM
But still it doesn't sit all that well. And I would NOT bring it up, but I WOULD go inside and discreetly count it next time.
And that IS one of the things I now keep note of. Still depending on the man's response I would not burn the bridge unless I felt he was really not worth seeing again based on other things. Even due to just a very difficult session with no one being at fault. Still it's all very unfortunate. Just like we ladies get rude reviews sometimes based on the same thing...a client having a bad day that we end up being powerless to change.
I am not saying to accept all this, it hurts, and it's sad that it happens, but it does. Things happen to people.
Anyway, Thomasd sounds like you are a winner.
-- Modified on 4/23/2004 10:03:16 AM
I can not tell from your post whether you figured out you shorted her or had no clue until she told you.
BTW, I hired two masons, part time, for 5 years, paying them weekly in cash. Over that time, they came back to me about half a dozen times: Half the time, I'd grossly overpaid; half way under. I was never offended when they came back, just very open to the possiblity someone had erred. They were always right.
-- Modified on 4/23/2004 8:13:03 AM
OK, an honest mistake. She just didn't give you the benefit of the doubt Felicia was talking about...
I once walked out and forgot to pay at all. Since most of tthe ladies I see come from reccomendations I have a habit of paying afterwards. I did realize it about 15 min after I left her and did return to the room and pay her.
I phone op for an agency in PHX (your stomping grounds, Chrissy!) and you would indeed be surprised how often that happens. We have had regulars, men who already receive discounts, short the ladies by $25-$50! Of course, with regulars, the ladies are more trusting, and don't usually check. I now keep a running list, so that if and when they book again, I can politely reiterate the rate (in case they have somehow forgotten) and let the provider know to double check before the session. (Discreetly of course!) It sucks because we hear all the time how clients hate seeing the girls count the money, how rude it is, and how it reminds them too much of the business end. Unfortunately, it is "gentlemen" like these that make it necessary.
It happened to me once -- an accident. Very embarassing. Ususlly, I say something like "I just got some wonderful engravings of ... Why don't you take a look at themt? I think they are very nice." and give her a chance to check the amount. She apparently did not bother to look and only caught it when I was walking out the door.
OK now I get it....at first i thought this was about ladies
five feet tall and less
SERIOUSLY
Anyone who with forethougt short changes a lady is a SCUM BAG, plain and simple, now I know that name calling is not accepted on this board, however this maybe an exception and I am not direction it at a named individual but all who intentionaly do this. It is DISPICABLE and again you are SCUM BAGS
Now I agree that mistakes do happen and as some have stated in their post they have made it right...again shit happens and if am honest mistake is made and is admitted too and taken care of
i would not conside you as the aforementioned scum bag, but rather a man for admitting your mistake and making it right.
As for me I have not made the mistake (not to say I am perfect) the ladies i see request donations 3/hr or 5/2hr so i get 100's and find it esay to count to 3 or 5.
Yes I can count to 5
Ladies if this does happen and you are for sure it was with forethought, well of course you should never see him again and
I think it is good to let others know about him however you see fit to do so.
There is the rip off part of TER...for the guys so we can stay away from the rip off providers/agencies etc...how about something for the ladies to know about the rip off guys!
I know this may be easier said than done ....but how about it staff give it some thought.
Thank you
I say to each his own.
Personally, I prefer TALL & BUSTY.
Tally-Ho!
As a provider, I have had this happen to me also at least 3 occasions, having been shorted as much as $40. Mistakes happen, I guess, but depending on the client, I have either let it go and decided to not see him ever again, or mentioned it in an email or phone call, whereupon there is either "no I didn't" or an apology. The ones who short on purpose to a provider know who they are and are scum. As rude as it may be, counting in front of a client is beginning to look good to me, even though that is the last thing I want to do (kind of spoils the mood, ya know!). My regular clients I have never, ever had to give that a second thought, especially since they usually tip as well. One client in particular accidentally OVERPAID me once by $100 (stuck together bills) and I called him back to give him his money, and he was very grateful (he is one of my favorite regulars). Also, had a client once tell me that he couldn't afford the entire rate AFTER services were rendered, which ticked me off. If you don't have the money, SAY SO up front, or at least before you arrive, and maybe we can work something out, but don't try to be slick by shorting me and telling me later or not at all. Needless to say, that "gentleman" has never been given the opportunity of another appt with me.
Seems a pretty stupid way to save a few bucks. For every idiot like that the rest of us have to suffer the indignity of a provider counting out the wad right in front of us. How gauche! On the other hand, is this minor cheating unexpected in a hobby where many hobbyists are in fact cheating on some SO somewhere? As a favorite novel of mine said, a guy who'll cheat on the lines in tennis will cheat on his taxes.
I'm single, so I'm not cheating on a S.O. at all. But as far as cheating in one area meaning a person might cheat in another, I hope this isn't offensive to folks but...
A business I worked at had the opportunity to sell some stuff to a new abortion clinic. They didn't really want to be seen delivering there, so they got in and out in a hurry. But they wanted the money which was more important than anything, you know. Anyway, guess who didn't pay the (very large) bill? That time the comment was made that one couldn't expect them to be moral in finances if they weren't moral about human life.
That would be such gall! If it ever happened that I shorted a provider, it would have to be totally intentional. I really check it closely. And if it happened, I would certainly want to be told so I could correct it. Actually, I always tip afterward, too - though the amount might vary.
Reminds me of one time I took my credit card into my usual gas station and went out to fill up. Forgot all about going in and signing and so I drove off! Several days later when I went to fill up again, I couldn't find my gas card then it dawned on me - I had left it there the previous time! So I went in and sure enough, he had my card in the drawer awaiting my next fillup! But I was a many-time repeat customer and well known to him so he wasn't worried. Anyone can make a mistake, but this is something we need to check carefully.