there is a local lady who charges for references imo...that is tacky.Much rather someone say they are not reference friendly than to charge for a reference.But hey every lady does what she wants when it comes to running her business.
I get used alot for references sometimes I have only seen the guy once in a year I don't mind providing a reference but after 5+ times it gets to be redundant.
Even after I have given many references for one guy he still uses me almost two years later.I never said anything to him but I do tell the references I only saw him once two years ago and she can decide if she wants to take the reference or ask for a more recent one.
-- Modified on 3/29/2017 10:51:39 PM
I know this topic has been visited before but when is it a appropriate amount of time passed when you stop asking the same provider for references? I feel for me is like a month especially if you're one of those hobbyists who is very active & can use the most recent provider they've seen unless you're a regular then I would anytime..
I was called rude for telling a client whom I've haven't seen over 4 months ago (seen once) that I would not verify him... He sent me an email that basically telling me who's gonna contact me, that's it-not hey Gemma do you mind me using you as a reference again, I mean I've already referenced for him many times over since we met. My gripe is I don't mind giving references but 4months has passed & that person has seen many other providers that are/could be more recent references. if that person was someone I see regularly definitely wouldn't mind at all .... But when is enough is enough?
Am I being RUDE for telling him I'm not going to to do? Thoughts?
Happy Hump Day Ter!!!
Xoxo
Gem
Tell him " I do not mind referring you, but since I have already referred you X # of times, would you like to schedule another date with me?
Trust me, if he does not, he will get the message and move on!
I don't know what the "right" amount of time is to use as a cut-off date. I'd say six months. But to use it as a way to press for another date is REALLY bad form. If anyone did that to me I'd not only go elsewhere for a reference but never see them again.
Six months is my cut-off. Like Gemma said, it can seem a bit weird when a client keeps asking for a reference although he has seen other ladies in the interim - but I would never suggest a "refresher" date!
I think this is one of the more serious problems with having to produce a reference from a gal-especially if it is in the same market she works in. It is perceived as taking business from the gal you are asking the referral from so you can spend your money with another gal that you could have spent with her.......Oh well......that's the way it is !
Providers use references as a safety/screening tool. Which means we ask for them, and we give them too.
To say that we perceive incoming reference requests as "another girl taking our business away" is ridiculous. It's just part of the business. No one owns any client. We (providers) know that.
Yeah, if it was an ATF client, there might be a tinge of jealousy, but it wouldn't go further than the fleeting thought of "I wish he was seeing me!"
It's true that smart girls are happy to provide a reference but some do get jealous. I agree it's dumb. But there are a lot of stupid people in this world.
When I ask for references I ask for the most recent providers that person has seen especially if he's an active hobbyists, not someone he's 3-4-5 months passed.. This is the p4p world I would never get jelly cause a client I've seen once go see another provider.. Not even an ATF ... I would rather my ATF reference me then not get any fun out & about!!!
No-No credit-it is what it is.........Believe whatever floats your canoe !!
To say that we perceive incoming reference requests as "another girl taking our business away" is ridiculous. It's just part of the business. No one owns any client. We (providers) know that.
Yeah, if it was an ATF client, there might be a tinge of jealousy, but it wouldn't go further than the fleeting thought of "I wish he was seeing me!"
The next time he asks for a reference, just claim it's been so long since she's seen him, she really can't remember any of the details after this long and that she just doesn't feel comfortable giving out references after the "x month" period.
He'll get the hint, or he won't. If he doesn't get the hint, then sayonara, or in Gemma's case more like a firm ga-seyo
As usual you're on point... Thanks GaGa!!!
But You guys I don't mind giving references but it's not I'm being petty, rude, or even want a revisit... It's the point of he's already seem 5 other providers after me (that's how any references I've given since he's visited me once), and the way go has gone about asking to use me as a reference-basically like he's entitled & Its my duty to refer him (btw the time spent wasn't even memorable ugh)... I didn't even remember him, I had to go back & research whom he was with the first reference request... My point is why isn't he using the 5 providers he's seen that's more recent then me, I mean wouldn't that make more sense? Its not kept we kept in contact after the visit!!
Maybe he has tried using more recent providers as references, and gotten feedback that they won't respond to reference requests. It wouldn't surprise me if the less expensive providers were also less likely to give references.
Would it make more sense? Yes and no. Yes, both because providers you've seen more recently have a fresher memory of you and because they're more likely to view you as a potential repeat customer. Or at least that's my assumption.
No, because if you've given him a good reference before he's banking that you will again. Even if he had a good time with the girls he's seen since you, he doesn't know, for instance, how prompt they'll be in responding to requests. Maybe they won't get back in a day or two, and it'll cost him a date. With references he's used before, there's less risk.
At least that's the thought process. If you've come through before, then you will again.
But You guys I don't mind giving references but it's not I'm being petty, rude, or even want a revisit... It's the point of he's already seem 5 other providers after me (that's how any references I've given since he's visited me once), and the way go has gone about asking to use me as a reference-basically like he's entitled & Its my duty to refer him (btw the time spent wasn't even memorable ugh)... I didn't even remember him, I had to go back & research whom he was with the first reference request... My point is why isn't he using the 5 providers he's seen that's more recent then me, I mean wouldn't that make more sense? Its not kept we kept in contact after the visit!!
I've never been one to beat around the bush (ba dum tshhhh) and I think sometimes a person just has to have the "friend sit down" moment. Now, he could be using you as a reference from "way back when" to attest to his continuing good behavior; however, I'm intrigued as to why he isn't using other providers as a reference. Did something negative happen? I just typed out below something to say... again, I can come off a bit strong. Personally, I will not send an email out until 24 hours later so I can alter the tone if needed.
Use it, tweak it, scrap it. I don't mind. I do hope it helps!
"Thank you for reaching out to me and I"m glad we could start this dialogue. After taking just a moment to think about it, I believe I have found a compromise that works for you and also for me.
I am more than happy to provide a reference and vouch for you one final time. Please know I am not making this decision lightly but I believe in the safety of our community on all fronts. Over the course of the four months since we have seen one another, I have been used as a reference "x amount of times". As a provider, I have been happy to help you safely enjoy this world and the providers in it by vouching for you; however, I am not the most recent provider you have seen. With that, I believe the most recent providers you have spent time with can better attest to your character and demeanor as it has been four months since we have seen one another.
Please let me know professionally, ahead of time, when you will be seeking one last reference request. If you should have any further questions, please feel free to reach out."
LJ, xox
6 months or so is the right cut-off time frame. Especially for an infrequent hobby guy. These days, I do this maybe once a month or so, thus my references tend to be a bit older.
I know I was pissed when a gal I had a wonderful time together with refused to respond to another ladies' reference request 4 months later - claimed she didn't know me after we had been bantering together on a local board here on TER the week before the request!
Anyway, part of this is gals pushing for more references or contacting everyone who ever OK'd a guy on P411. Kind of "reference overkill". Maybe a pain in the ass, but how much effort really to respond with an "He's OK/Not OK" email?
Funny, I've seen some chatter about this exact topic on twitter recently (@MasterZen15).
This is definitely an ongoing topic on Twitter. I know many providers who have their own style of doing references. Some will only serve as a reference "x" amount of times. Others are time based. I will not vouch for someone if it's been over 8 months for sure. Six (6) i pushing it. A few providers charge for references. That's been the hot topic of debate. And some will only use a reference network. Meaning, they only take references from providers they know personally and will only give them to those they know personally.
Gemma, I would say make it clear on your website, if it isn't already, what your preferred style is. That way, if this happens again, you can point a gent in that direction.
LJ (@thelondonjames)
in the "voluntary" reference system we have now. Have a policy clearly stated... good!
However, I fear "paid references" will destroy any integrity and leave some gals potentially in danger. I don't think it's a good idea.
is appreciation. If I meet XYZ client less than 6 months, I give reference for him 2 -3-4times... it would be nice from XYZ client to sent a small token of appreciation for my efforts.
Again, references are not obligation, its a courtesy in our environment. If is past 6 months I wont provide references, and if he already clearly has seen other ladies... he can use them instead.
However, I fear "paid references" will destroy any integrity and leave some gals potentially in danger. I don't think it's a good idea.
-- Modified on 3/29/2017 3:46:30 PM
references are given much more so for YOUR safety than as a "courtesy to the client"
It takes you all of ten seconds to help keep a sister provider safe, No way in hell am I going to pay you for extending a courtesy to your fellow hookers.
I will assure you of one thing, if a provider were ever to ask me for a "small token of appreciation" for giving me a reference after I gave her several hundred dollars an hour for her time, I would not only NEVER see said woman again, I would make sure her behavior became common knowledge to everyone in the community.
Gemma OTOH is completely justified in saying "enough is enough". I would definitely be getting the "So I am good enough to use as a reference, but not good enough to see again" feeling if a guy was constantly using me as a reference but never rebooking with me, but to ask for a "token" from a guy when you are really helping out the other provider just goes beyond the pale IMHO
looking records is out of that period of time.
And.. I do have clients that have sent me a gift as appreciation. Nothing wrong with that.
It takes you all of ten seconds to help keep a sister provider safe, No way in hell am I going to pay you for extending a courtesy to your fellow hookers.
I will assure you of one thing, if a provider were ever to ask me for a "small token of appreciation" for giving me a reference after I gave her several hundred dollars an hour for her time, I would not only NEVER see said woman again, I would make sure her behavior became common knowledge to everyone in the community.
Gemma OTOH is completely justified in saying "enough is enough". I would definitely be getting the "So I am good enough to use as a reference, but not good enough to see again" feeling if a guy was constantly using me as a reference but never rebooking with me, but to ask for a "token" from a guy when you are really helping out the other provider just goes beyond the pale IMHO
Expecting it makes you look like an entitled.......You can feel free to finish my sentence any way you like.
I have noticed, the more you post, the more you sound like it is ALL about the money to you. I understand it's a business not a hobby to you, but of late you are sounding more and more mercenary and that's not going to endear you to many of the guys. Run your business however you like, but expecting a "token" for a simple and common courtesy that mainly benefits the ladies doesn't give me the "warm and fuzzies" about your attitude.
and yes, you are right. Im not in this looking for a husband. It's a job. 
And so far I have no issues with clients and references. But I do know from other ladies that clients abuse it. If he has seeing 5-6 other girls after me... why he keep using me? he can rotate and give newest names.
Many of my regular clients, appreciate the things i do. The way I screen, the way I provide references.. and those are the clients that I prefer to keep.
V~
I have noticed, the more you post, the more you sound like it is ALL about the money to you. I understand it's a business not a hobby to you, but of late you are sounding more and more mercenary and that's not going to endear you to many of the guys. Run your business however you like, but expecting a "token" for a simple and common courtesy that mainly benefits the ladies doesn't give me the "warm and fuzzies" about your attitude.
-- Modified on 3/29/2017 2:29:17 PM
They say "no worries! anytime!"
I cant believe this is really an issue for someone charging $400/hr. We are literally talking about 10-15 seconds of your time.
But feel free to make it "all about the money", as that is your "business" both literally and figuratively, but don't be shocked when that attitude lands you on many DNS lists.
You just made mine.
So ladies cant complaint about being a reference SEVERAL times!?
Exacly, it's about 10-15 seconds... several times.
What about courtesy from the clients?
YOU are the one being PAID. WE are the payer. It isn't exactly a level playing field and nor should it be. You make more than my attorney per hour so sliding someone 15 seconds here and there seems like a no brainer. That doesn't mean we can treat you like dirt, but making a mountain out of something so mole hill-ish doesn't seem to make good business sense. I wouldn't see you either. Arguing this point to death doesn't seem to help your cause but I have to pay for pussy so what do I know?
The issue is being used for references several times, even tho you meet with new ladies that can give you fresh and current references. The question is... why the gentleman would not give current references!? Because they didn't behave in a proper way?! Because the ladies dont have good reputation? Who knows.
Courtesy goes both ways. Again I give references and Im extremely reference friendly. (If you are not a client or meet me, you wouldn't know). and noone Read me NOONE could say I don't respond. As a matter of fact I respond within MINUTES my reference request (and my clients appreciate that and THANK ME FOR IT)... its to help each other. But that... to clients feel entitle is another story.
Just like "a token of appreciation" should not be entitled... neither a reference after SEVERAL timea given already.
It takes more than 10-15 seconds to give a valid reference. Maybe Ms Veronica who's a hot and sassy lady took it to an extreme but I can tell you it can get time consuming.
Now me, I give refs to my gents up to a year+ because I rarely forget someone and I really don't see many guys now but get mostly extended dates so it's all good. When it's been more than a year I do let the lady know long it's been since I saw the guy so she can take it into account. But that's just me. I have a lot of free time but if I were seeing guys like I used to, it would get a little annoying if the same guy kept using me as a ref over and over an over and never booked with me again.
The worst I've ever had was a guy who I hadn't seen in 7-8 YEARS contacting me to see if he could use me as a ref. I said "really"? And then said you'll have to refresh my memory BCD 'cause it's een WAY too long, lol.
Cut Ms hottie Veronica a little slack before throwing down the DNS gauntlet! 
Steph xoxo
-- Modified on 3/29/2017 9:41:07 AM
in this general board guys are quick to judge if the situation is not to their convenience... I had give references with more than 6 months, theres many gentleman that don't see ladies frequently, and I may be the only lady he meet in MONTHS... I have no issue giving a reference and letting the lady I meet him with that period of time....
But when a guy gives my name, over, and over, and over again... and he already meet 5-7 ladies after me... why he keep giving my name? (it happen to me in the past, and when I asked him he said.. because you are the only one that respond within minutes! other ladies take days).
so, he appreciated my fast communication and responses, but some guys are just plain rude, and EXPECT for us to do it... and that's what I do not agree with it.
thanks for the sassy, my good clients seem to like it haha "awesome fiery latina" like one of them mentioned in review LOL
Now me, I give refs to my gents up to a year+ because I rarely forget someone and I really don't see many guys now but get mostly extended dates so it's all good. When it's been more than a year I do let the lady know long it's been since I saw the guy so she can take it into account. But that's just me. I have a lot of free time but if I were seeing guys like I used to, it would get a little annoying if the same guy kept using me as a ref over and over an over and never booked with me again.
The worst I've ever ad was a guy who I hadn't seen in 7-8 YEARS contacting me to see if he could use me as a ref. I said "really"? And ten said you'll have to refresh my memory BCD 'cause it's een WAY too long, lol.
Cut Ms hottie Veronica a little slack before throwing down the DNS gauntlet!
Steph xoxo
-- Modified on 3/29/2017 4:40:01 PM
I got a email from a newbie massage lady asking about a guy. All she had was his (new) cell number and a first name. Later I found out I knew him from over 4 years ago and I had only seen him once. To be fair, I did give the girl a reference but explained that I hadn't seen him in x-time but once. Yes I would see him again. I do not know what he has done in this time frame or if anything changed. This was for an out of state guy.
I really only like giving references for 6 months after last meeting. I have made exceptions but gave disclaimers. I do not allow guys to use me 20 times for references. Should have some new references by then.
I have never had a lady ignore my reference checking request. It may be because I have been on TER so long and been playing when bored on here.
I am also very quick to answer on any provider asking about reference. I could be doing almost anything (well except for YOU KNOW) and I will check my texts.
Alexandra is on her shit! Bwahaha.
If only you all knew how entertaining I was. My twitter would give you a great laugh. I screw around more on that lately than on here.
Now me, I give refs to my gents up to a year+ because I rarely forget someone and I really don't see many guys now but get mostly extended dates so it's all good. When it's been more than a year I do let the lady know long it's been since I saw the guy so she can take it into account. But that's just me. I have a lot of free time but if I were seeing guys like I used to, it would get a little annoying if the same guy kept using me as a ref over and over an over and never booked with me again.
The worst I've ever ad was a guy who I hadn't seen in 7-8 YEARS contacting me to see if he could use me as a ref. I said "really"? And ten said you'll have to refresh my memory BCD 'cause it's een WAY too long, lol.
Cut Ms hottie Veronica a little slack before throwing down the DNS gauntlet!
Steph xoxo
She expects to be compensated for references. How did you miss that part? That is part of the "attitude" I referred to and why she was placed on my DNS.
And you better tell Veronica it doesn't take 15 seconds bc she just agreed it does. LOL
There are 4 guys, including myself, that have said she made their DNS list JUST in this thread. How often do you ever see that?
Odd you would pick this girl to WK for. You would NEVER do what this girl does.
She is self admittedly an "all about the money" girl, as is her choice.
And my choice is to steer clear of those types.
I'm thinking she didn't mean she was going to start literally asking to be compensated for giving references, although I've heard of some that do. I'm *hoping* Veronica was kinda thinking out loud. Who knows what kind of day she had. I can't really speak for her, but I just don't think she made some cardinal sin, more of a uh oh.
And it looks like she stopped responding so can we get back to having fun?
Steph xoxo
-- Modified on 3/29/2017 1:48:30 PM
While it may take more than a 1/4 of minute, it doesn't take that much more. If she loved this occupation and cherished her men, she would overlook a faux pas here or there. To me, attitude carries at least as much importance as looks, for if a lady would act this way here on this board, and make such a fuss about referrals, I would hate to see how she would act with me privately. My money is too valuable to risk it on a woman like her.
regarding the granting of OKs and being responsive when another member checks on an OK. It is definitely NOT voluntary. I haven't checked lately on the status of the rules today but that's the way it used to be.
but if a lady doesn't want to give a ok to the gentleman, we contact p411 and explain the reason why.
And Gina does a good job of making sure clients and escorts get a fair shake.
there is a local lady who charges for references imo...that is tacky.Much rather someone say they are not reference friendly than to charge for a reference.But hey every lady does what she wants when it comes to running her business.
I get used alot for references sometimes I have only seen the guy once in a year I don't mind providing a reference but after 5+ times it gets to be redundant.
Even after I have given many references for one guy he still uses me almost two years later.I never said anything to him but I do tell the references I only saw him once two years ago and she can decide if she wants to take the reference or ask for a more recent one.
-- Modified on 3/29/2017 10:51:39 PM
a good review on Yelp or TripAdvisor? Not identical, but similar to a reference request.
Hobbyists help each other through the PM system and providers help each other by giving references.
This is not complicated.
And getting back to the original question about time frames, start getting out the 4 - 6 months and people can change so is there's not been any repeat by the John how could a provider really give a safe reference? For all she knows the guys wife just found out, filed for divorce and is getting the house, the cars, dog, all the money and now he's living in a shoe box and is blaming the escorts for his current lot in life.
Aren't a "voluntary " thing anymore. It seems that it's a requirement from frequent members in this board.
-- Modified on 3/29/2017 3:17:25 PM
I think some here got their dander up about you saying something about thinking guys who constantly ask for references from you should give you a little something in return. I feel you on this, however as soon as I read that I thought to myself, she's going to catch it for saying that.
Best to maybe amend that or not dig in anymore. I still think you are muy caliente sassy gal!
Steph xoxo
should, it's a nice thing...
Is not like I have a "reference package" like some ladies do.. LOL ... people read what they want to read.
I have awesome clients that have sent me a little something as a thank you, or even a email. Thats nice! With clients like that.. thoughtful.. I am happy to provide references for. I know those that sent me a thank you gift or thank you email, I know they give my name several times bc they KNOW i respond within minutes not 2-3 days later.
but saying " we pay you, its our money" entitlement.. that's another thing. They pay me for an hour of my time, that's rude saying that.... and yes, that's not the type of clients I look forward to meet.. so they are in my DNS list as well.
Best to maybe amend that or not dig in anymore. I still think you are muy caliente sassy gal!
Steph xoxo
-- Modified on 3/29/2017 4:46:37 PM
That would be a marvelous idea (hint).
Steph xoxo
She has already heard that more than just a couple of guys have taken her off of their "to do list" after this.
It's funny, because from a personal standpoint, I haven't asked a provider for a reference directly for years, SEVERAL years. I am a P 411 member, I have dozens of okays, any provider is more than welcome to contact any one of them, but the moment a prospective hooker expects me to start jumping through hoops, expecting me to call the references first, blah, blah, blah, is the moment I lose complete interest in booking with her.
I work hard to get people to spend money with me, You have no idea how many hoops I jump through to attract capital, when it's me spending my money, I am not jumping through even a single hoop, it's just not going to happen.
Glad you finally saw the light. It took you long enough! LOL
what your policy is: Example . . . . .
"I am happy to provide references for my clients for three months (or whatever number you like) after our last meeting."
This tells everyone what to expect. If a guy asks after that, just tell him your policy is on your website and you thought he looked at that when he first booked.
... hit up the same gals several times over the course of many months and they were all cordial and accommodating. I think it depends a lot on the parties involved and the type of relationship that they have and the circumstances involved. In other words - there is no cut off time and each provider can apply her rules on a case by case basis.
I have had some guys use me as a reference that I hadn't seen in 6 months or longer.. I've had one or two use me as a reference and I hadn't seen them in close to a year! I will tell the provider looking for the reference that I've seen them (and that is all some are looking for I guess) BUT I will also let them know it's been a significant amount of time since I've seen them last and that I really can't give them a real reference. Personally, I would never take a reference over a few months old. To each their own though.
-- Modified on 3/29/2017 7:07:28 AM
This way the lady has a better recollection. This was also the primary reason I opted to use a verification site. Makes life much easier for everyone.
I honestly have just given references when asked without thinking about how long ago I saw a guy. But people on here have great points, a lot can change over time and it's probably best to have like a six month cut off.
I am not really sure how germane it is to your argument how many girls he has seen since you, or how that plays into your logic here. If he saw zero or just one, somehow doing him a solid is easier for you?
You have every right to give him, or not give him, a reference. That is your choice.
But I have every right to think this is a thread that makes you look a bit small to penalize him over what amounts to being quite possibly the smallest infraction in p4p.
if someone cut me off for references after 6 months. I almost always have to travel somewhere else to see someone and even then they are "visiting", so based on schedule, travel time, etc., etc., I have a hard time seeing good reputable providers. With that said, many of my references are from "older" encounters due to all of the above.
Now I have a question. Do ladies that use verification sites like p411 look at the "okays" and "white lists" on TER and accept that at face value or do you contact each one?
some contact all of your OK's, some contact a few most recent OK's. Those reference contacts can often happen without your direct knowledge, "behind the scenes". There is no single process that works for every provider.
As far as I'm concerned, it's best to let the gals handle it their own way. I always provide my basic screening info, and if asked for specific references provide them. Like you, I worry that at times my "references" may become a little "dated". The gals always seem to find a way to work it out.
As far as charging for references goes, I think it is a slippery slope into the abyss... ripe for abuse and potentially dangerous to providers.
the request is from a known (to me) and reputable provider.
My answer generally includes the length of time since I last saw the person and either 'Johnny was ok, safe, great' Or if he wasn't any of those, ' please call me'.
Giving the time frame leaves it up to the requesting provider to decide if it has been too long to be a good reference or not.
But after giving a guy references to other providers over and over again with out recently seeing them - I'd just as soon not see the guy again, anyway. (It makes one feel used!)
Apparently, you HAD been his go-to reference. Always reliable and his other dates went through, so why wouldn't he continue to use you as a ref?
Were the refs you responded to of similar experience as you (numerous good reviews) and active or lesser known girls? I prefer to use girls who have a good rep in the business so the new provider knows I seek quality. Bottom line, take it as a compliment.
As far as time frame, I think 6 months is not too much to ask.
This is the world of quid pro quo. I have even been asked to write reviews (though never had pressure on me to write a good one) and I have never denied that request. It would be naive to think that those reviews to not hep promote the provider's business, and for great providers (the ones I have gladly reviewed) I am happy to do it as I want them to have a lot of business, and I want to vouch for them to my fellow hobbyists.
So why, if i have written a nice review for you - which would likely jog your memory if you forgot who I was - would you deny me a reference even if it were longer than 6 months?
Ok so I've gone back and forth on this in my mind during the course of reading this thread... But honestly, it makes no sense to count how long it's been... if you've seen him and he's good just give him a damn reference. No need to worry about any of this other stuff lol. ESPECIALLY if he gave a review.
The OP complained that it had been 4 months, and my response was (even) 6 months wasn't too long. I picked 6 because a lot of providers ask for "recent" references (last 6 months). I agree with you that if the provider remembers you that more than six months shouldn't be a problem, but think about how many client's she sees and how many reviews are written. I'd hate to put a girl in the position of saying "yeah, I think he was ok" based on a fuzzy memory of a 1-hour appointment.
Also much like a lot of mongers won't see a girl without fairly recent reviews (concerned she got fat or developed GPS, or just burned out) I imagine some guys attitudes and habits change over time. Sure they may be safe, but beyond that, would the provider actually "recommend" them to another girl?
Soooo... in summary, the OP is being a bit petty in complaining after only 4 months, but there has to be some logical cut off when the girls says, yeah I saw him but I honestly don't remember xyz details. Besides, all girls destroy your personal information right after you've been verified, so she only has a distant memory and maybe an old review to go on. LOL
I know... somehow this ended up in the wrong place in the thread. My apologies... it had nothing to do with your post.
Reviews are only written once, whereas references can be requested over and over again. And potential clients take older reviews less seriously, so they're not of as much use to a provider as fresh references are to a client.
Finally, there's the little matter of reviews being the property of TER.
yes, but one review take a lot more time than a series of references, so that point is very unconvincing to me.
And yes, TER would not agree to dump a review, but this was more of a hypothetical musing as the same people who are suggesting that they are over worked by writing references and that months between visits is too long to remember someone or at the very least refer them, are likely I bet to enjoy having a great review in their column from the same person they will now not give a reference to.
I used to take an hour to write reviews, but now I'm down to like 20 minutes. Only a few providers have specifically requested reviews. Those that have, yes, I would expect them to reciprocate concerning references. But bear in mind that they don't directly benefit from references like we do reviews, in the form of VIP days.
No idea how long it takes them to respond to review requests. It's probably a lot shorter than 20 minutes, admittedly.
Any given provider should feel free to use whatever policy or judgment with respect to references. I can understand that it would be annoying to keep giving references for a guy who hasn't seen you for a while and maybe only saw you once. I wouldn't blame you if you wanted to stop giving references for someone you haven't seen in months, though maybe it would be better to give the reference but also mention that you haven't seen that guy in months.
But keep in mind that references in general are for the sake of providers. If all of you are reference-friendly, that keeps the business safer for all of you. It may seem like giving a specific reference is like helping another provider take business away from you, but keep in mind the big picture, or at least the concept of karma.
Not every lady has the same standards as far as who they meet. What is safe and comfortable for one lady, its not for another.
Not too long ago I have a communication with a lady about a client, and to find out this person was blacklisted fro unsafe practices, short pay, NCNC and others... not once, not two, not three times... more than that.
This lady stated that she meets with him even tho he is blacklisted because "at the end he pays if he show up", If that's ok with her... that's her business, but I wont meet with the guy knowing that history.
References are becoming less useful many times, not every lady care about their safety and privacy like others. To each their own.
I do recommend my friends (ladies that I know they screen like me), to clients that I've already seeing and I know they do the same. I trust ONLY few ladies with only references....
But keep in mind that references in general are for the sake of providers. If all of you are reference-friendly, that keeps the business safer for all of you. It may seem like giving a specific reference is like helping another provider take business away from you, but keep in mind the big picture, or at least the concept of karma.
Rather than from all the BP,
$40-special, providers they normally see.
Sucks to be famous, huh?
-- Modified on 3/29/2017 12:50:45 PM
$40-special, providers they normally see.
Sucks to be famous, huh?
-- Modified on 3/29/2017 12:50:45 PM
is some truth to that in that a reference from a well-known lady and well respected lady will go further than a new lady or a touring lady to your local area.
don't read too much in what I haven't say.
That is to say, that a reference from a well-known & established provider has more credibility than the word of someone who's been around a short period of time and/or has only a few reviews.
Sometimes I am asked about someone whom I've NEVER MET. They give my name because they assume some ladies won't follow up; they'll just think "oh I know her! She screens the crap out of everyone so he MUST be safe!"
I shudder to think how many guys get away with fake references.
Another thing to keep in mind: just because you gave her a reference doesn't mean he actually SAW her.
One client, whom I've only met twice, gives my name as a reference on an almost-weekly basis. The 2nd time we met, I asked him about it and he replied that he hasn't even met a quarter of the ladies who contacted me. Either the scheduling didn't work out, or they didn't keep their planned tour dates to his small city.
This is the main reason why I went to P411, not that it was a huge problem, but some ladies simply aren't hospitable enough to respond back in a timely manner if at all. From my time hobbying when I used provider references as verification it was like rolling the dice when sending ladies reference information.
When is enough enough? I would say a good time frame is 3 to 6 months, just my personal opinion. I have seen providers who have mentioned at the end of the session not to hesitate to use them as a reference. Possibly just pillow talk. Even then I took a bit of caution as to whom and how many times I used them. You could go the route of charging $10 per reference as one provider stated some time ago, to each their own. One provider specifically told me that she would prefer that I sent her the information of the provider i wanted to see beforehand so that she would feel comfortable speaking with her
P.S. From a clients perspective, did you think he was rude when he forked over your donation fee for a session?
Either give a reference or don't/it is up to the provider.
There can be no absolute date certain when you won't give one.
Certainly as has been eluded to-if you don't remember the guy-tell the gal that-
if you vaguely remember him but don't recall anything bad about him-tell that too-
if he was so awesome that you bought a freakin' wedding dress and are awaiting his call-tell her that as well !
We are dealing in an illegal enterprise and a lot of gals say they don't keep any info on clients-so how would one really know ??!!!
I'd venture to say that unless the client does something totally off-putting such as horrible B/O, rude, overly physical/aggressive, that he will at least be lumped in the category of "he was okay." Anything more that that I am sure would warrant him a spot on the blacklist.
True a lot of gals do say they don't keep any info, but I magically have emails pop up saying that they will be visiting my city on X through X dates, so that's not true.
I agree that unless you are a regular, chances are she probably won't remember you, but if she is reference friendly, she at least has some notes or some way of recalling you, if she'd see you again or how the session went, and if you're going on her email list.
There can be no absolute date certain when you won't give one.
Certainly as has been eluded to-if you don't remember the guy-tell the gal that-
if you vaguely remember him but don't recall anything bad about him-tell that too-
if he was so awesome that you bought a freakin' wedding dress and are awaiting his call-tell her that as well !
We are dealing in an illegal enterprise and a lot of gals say they don't keep any info on clients-so how would one really know ??!!!
When I started I asked providers when I left if I could use as a reference
In most cases the answer was "of course but not continuously without coming back"
I personally feel that if you have given him four or five references in even a moth and he has not returned would be appropriate to send him a " I enjoyed my time with you and would like to see you again and would love to see you again before anymore referrals are given. "
On the other hand if you have seen him and it is under six months and is the first or second time to use you feel that if you can verify that he was OK should verify him.
I recently saw you and if I use you as a reference five months from now I would expect a positive response.
If not would not even consider seeing you again. Again this is one referall not many.
Along with you gifting me VIP credits via ter when I had to go get a gift card to renew... Memorable moments...
I don't expect people to return unless they want to, I don't ask for it nor do I want to use giving out a reference to force him to return.. I just feel like since I do have any reviews, a board presence & active member that he's taken my standing for granted by using me repeatedly especial when I know he's seen other providers which whom I odd give a reference to...
I'm more annoyed he called me rude for exoressed how I felt about the situation of feeling taken advantage of...
he already meet other ladies after you.. so he can use them as references. I am starting to give one or 2 references, bu the third one, I tell them to pick an item from my amazon wishlist first.
Also, I am only giving references for 6 months, after that they can come back and see me again.
Being a reference is courtesy, not an obligation. My time is money. This is my income.... and any time should be compensated.
I was called rude for telling a client whom I've haven't seen over 4 months ago (seen once) that I would not verify him... He sent me an email that basically telling me who's gonna contact me, that's it-not hey Gemma do you mind me using you as a reference again, I mean I've already referenced for him many times over since we met. My gripe is I don't mind giving references but 4months has passed & that person has seen many other providers that are/could be more recent references. if that person was someone I see regularly definitely wouldn't mind at all .... But when is enough is enough?
Am I being RUDE for telling him I'm not going to to do? Thoughts?
Happy Hump Day Ter!!!
Xoxo
Gem
Why did you post this here? This should be on a providers only board so instead of getting roasted every time you attack clients, you would just get good common sense advice, which is:
References are a vital safety tool for providers. It seems like you're doing the client a favor but in fact the person helped most is the other provider. If references weren't important, no one would ask for them, but it's the opposite. Like getting paid and washing your crotch, references are universal.
You're right to suspect something is off when a client who you saw once or twice asks for many references. Yes, it's a good idea to have a policy about the number of references you'll give or the length of time you'll give them, but in this case if you want to pay it forward a little, to help the provider asking for the reference you could reach out to the other providers to whom you referred this client to see if there's a reason he didn't ask them for a reference. Really looking out for others is the best way to ensure safety.
Back to the client point of view:
Now you're going to say that this takes even more of your time and time is money. This is true. Also, money is time. Asking to get paid for references, as long as the requests are not made in an abusive way, is similar to a client asking for a refund for time you spend in the bathroom or checking the time during a session. Would you like to be on the clock like that?
And I can put whatever I want here even if I write EOM And what were your doing reading the body when EOM is in the subject anyhow?
If the tables were turned, and there was a guy who wanted to donate his money to see you and he was a great guy, would you want the providers you called to refuse to give a good reference? You would be the one losing out on the client and his money.
My advice for all the ladies would be this: If a man shows you respect, and you have a good session with him, then show the same respect and give a quick reply in the affirmative to those asking for a reference. And yes, it may be 6-months ago or even a year, but that does not change the fact that he is a verifiable person. Many of the guys partake only a few times a year, and enjoy seeing a few different girls.
Those are my thoughts on this topic.
thank you
mutual respect it's the key.
My advice for all the ladies would be this: If a man shows you respect, and you have a good session with him, then show the same respect and give a quick reply in the affirmative to those asking for a reference. And yes, it may be 6-months ago or even a year, but that does not change the fact that he is a verifiable person. Many of the guys partake only a few times a year, and enjoy seeing a few different girls.
Those are my thoughts on this topic.
...He said give the reference even if it's more than 6 months since you saw the client. He stated a case for clients that don't see providers very often. You have already said you won't go beyond 6 months. He did mention respect and you agreed with that. But that doesn't meet the criteria for completely agreeing with him.
I have to say I agree with the posters above regarding your looking to be compensated for a reference. You clearly said you would direct a client seeking a reference after the 3rd time to your wish list.
It's your business, run it the way you want. Were I ever to have an opportunity to see you I would pass. Paying/Compensating for references is wrong.
and I agree with the mutual respect... and yes, If I meet a client more than 6 months... I have responded in the past to those request (You would not know, or will know)
regardless, letting the lady know that it's been more than 6 months I haven't see him.. or 7 or 8, or a year.
There's many gentleman that are not a "hobbiest" and don't see ladies regularly, monthly, weekly, so, I don't see that an issue. Maybe I am the only provider he has seeing in the last year.
Now... again; if a client see more ladies after me... why he doesn't use the current and fresh ladies as references? Why is my reference SO important for him that he keep using it?
No worries.. I select who I see...
I have to say I agree with the posters above regarding your looking to be compensated for a reference. You clearly said you would direct a client seeking a reference after the 3rd time to your wish list.
It's your business, run it the way you want. Were I ever to have an opportunity to see you I would pass. Paying/Compensating for references is wrong.
-- Modified on 3/29/2017 4:27:52 PM
I would pass as well, and your reasoning is not only sound but very well stated. I don't understand why Veronica has chosen to argue with so many in this thread over something so inane. God gave us two ears and one mouth. Was that due to the possibility he wanted us to listen twice as much as talk?
Basically you can make up your own rules. Just be polite but assertive.
I saw a Chicago fella once and for months and months after he used me as a reference like once or twice a week!! (He was a trust fund baby with a lot of money and time) In the end I had to email and point out politely that if he'd seen these dozens of ladies since seeing me months before, could he please use one of them a special a reference so I could have a break?
😂😂
Hope things are fabulous!!!!
That's why I posted about "is it rude".... I related to him maybe try more recently seen provider & I'm called rude ... Ugh Lol...
It really amazes me the lost in translating that happens on this board.. No ones being petty, no ones looking for a revisit & no ones well not me is looking for compensation for a referral... I just think if your actively seeing providers the most recent one should be the best choice!!!
I didn't read everything, but here is my policy
I usually email my providers to apologize for the number of references they are getting and to thank them because I am always successfully verified. They usually say they aren't getting that many email requests from me (lol) or they say no problem.
However, I move on. I update my list after each visit so that the women I met a while back are no longer getting those emails. I am still a newbie so I have only repeated once with a woman (twice if you count a social lunch date), so I appreciate all the references I have received without a repeat date.
I am currently slowing down a lot so I suppose my strategy in the future will be to find newbie friendly provs all over again. Or better than that I will find providers with a social date verification process. I really enjoy that.
If you guys have been meeting with each other for over 4 months, Why are you still requiring a reference? Not to sound harsh but just wondering. If I continue to see someone for more than 2 months , by then I would imagine I am completely comfortable with them. I would imagine that client more needing of my references versus there's Especially when (from my own experience) most other providers just say " He's ok".
I personally would not see someone I feel I need to still reference after 4 months anyways. But then again, depends on how often I see them.
That happens all the time to me too. My rule now is if I haven't seen you in the past 6 months I won't verify anymore. I have guys that I haven't seen but one time in over two years still trying to use me as a reference. .. sketchy if you ask me...they should use their recently seen girls I agree...
Hey Gemma,
For me, i'm flattered when a client asks me if he can use me as a reference.
And the fact that he asks me first is pretty classy on his part.
I just see it as that my old friend trusts me and knows he can count on me to respond to
his potential provider. I'm good with it- thats just me. .
If a customer hadn't request multiple references I don't see why a few should matter, especially for low hobbiers like myself. My real additional question is why would the person seeking the reference mind if it was even 12 months old or older? Are people worried that the client has changed in that time? Am I being to naive thinking that if someone is safe today they should be safe in a year?
I usually give the reference.
"Hi Ms. So and So! While it's been quite a while, I've seen Joe several times. Our most recent date was in December 2016. He was always a complete gentleman. I never had any issues with him, he is respectful in every way, and I enjoyed his company. Based upon my past experiences, I'd happily see him again." If she won't accept old references, she can ask him to provide a more recent one.
If the guy has repeatedly used me as a reference, and I know he's seen several other women since me... I *may* let the other provider know that. "I've referred him to several other women since we last met, so you may want to ask him for a more recent reference." However, I'll do that only if it feels relevant... i.e. if the guy was sort of an ass and might not HAVE a good recent reference, lol. A lot of guys consistently use me as a reference because they know that I'm not flaky, and will reply in a timely fashion, etc., and there's nothing underhanded about it at all.
From a customer you have seen before. There should be no issues giving a reference regardless when the guy saw you. It seems that some providers like to use giving a reference as candy to get the customer to come back to see them again. Remember it is about your safety and the other providers safety. Let the other provider determine if she will accept it or not (if it is not current enough).
I have seen drama where a provider will say why do you want to pay X more for seeing me after she gave the reference. She made things bad by calling me in the middle of a Sunday afternoon while I was on vacation saying she was going to give me a reference instead of just sending me a email. That caused a lot of drama with my wife.
I was called rude for telling a client whom I've haven't seen over 4 months ago (seen once) that I would not verify him... He sent me an email that basically telling me who's gonna contact me, that's it-not hey Gemma do you mind me using you as a reference again, I mean I've already referenced for him many times over since we met. My gripe is I don't mind giving references but 4months has passed & that person has seen many other providers that are/could be more recent references. if that person was someone I see regularly definitely wouldn't mind at all .... But when is enough is enough?
Am I being RUDE for telling him I'm not going to to do? Thoughts?
Happy Hump Day Ter!!!
Xoxo
Gem
I don't like having my providers getting too many email requests for a reference for me.
I was verified for this morning but then she had to cancel.
Still horny.
Now I have to send out my references again (well don't have to - did email one for a second date - but all last minute requests have a low likelihood of success)
6 months sounds like a good time frame. But it depends. On a side note, I wish that providers did a better job communicating back 1) whether a reference was responsive and/or 2) what she said, if anything more than just verified legitimacy. Every provider seems to do their own thing. I don't think that there is a clear right answer. Just use the golden rule --- what would you want someone to do if the roles were reversed?