What's been your experience holding a relationship with a provider that moves beyond the escort/hobbyist dynamic? If there is a genuine attraction and mutual feelings, can it work? Pros? Cons? Just beginning something and looking for some guidance based on experience both the guys and gals. Thanks!
-- Modified on 3/4/2017 9:33:43 AM
I recently tried it too & crashed & burned... I don't get the jealousy part when he met me in the line of work I did... Good thing it was short lived before emotions were involved!!! Waste of time!!!
DrHunter, is this something where she said yes to OTC time or did she actually say she wanted to date you? Being friendly is different from wanting to date, just so you know.
If you can handle her as is and are not trying to change anything... you know how to trust and have open communication, yes it is possible. Few seem to be able to do that, even when they say they can.
no such thing as a $1500 car, only a $1500 car repair.
I met someone that I liked so much we dated and after almost 10 years we got married.
But obviously it is risky, so don't be blase about it. Take stock of all the pluses and minuses and then be honest with yourself.
There have been more than a few client/escort relationships documented on these boards that crashed and burned over the years.
I started thinking about this subject about a year after getting into hobbying, but as a theoretical. I purposely date women so young that there's no chance of a real relationship forming.
After my introspection, I concluded that I could marry a provider at this point in my life. I think much of the problem in such a relationship would stem from the guy's jealousy. In my case, I know that at this stage of my life, I'm not a good fuck. Just the way it is. I also know I don't have the biggest cock (not even a normal one right now). I think these are the insecurities of younger men, not of older men who are honest with themselves.
So, I think, but can't be certain, that I would accept that there's guys who will be able to give her pleasure. If she came home to me, that would mean something more.
Has your line of thinking gone anything along these lines?
I was three years out of a divorce, and thinking that marriage and committed relationships with women were a suckers' game.
Then I met my wife to be, and was quite smitten after one 24 hour date (and numerous emails over the course of three month.)
I tried to dismiss the whole thing as folly, and spoke to a number of hobby friends of both sexes whom I thought (and sort of hoped) would try to dissuade me from following up on my impulse. To my surprise they each thought that my inner judgement should be my guide.
At around the same time, I heard a line from a song that said that it is better to regret something you have done rather than something you haven't done.
So, I broached my idea to my object of affection and to my surprise, she said: sure.
The rest, as they say, is history.
did you deal with any jealousy? Or was there none?
and she understood my needs also.
We've been straight with each other and have been there for each other when it matters.
If that doesn't make things work, then I don't know what will.
work after the marriage? I think that would be a sticking point for me. I don't have a problem with a girl with a past. It doesn't mean anything unless you want to live there. But I think a girl that still wanted to work after becoming my wife would be a problem, not from a jealousy standpoint as much as the physical toll it takes on their bodies. I wouldn't want a wife that was tired all of the time and just wanted to sleep.
You are one of the most remarkable people I have ever met: rational, open, considerate and (as I learned after having dinner with you and a lady I adore) very attractive to women.
You have succeeded where many others might fail and --while I have never met her-- I am sure your spouse is as remarkable as you.
I would never leave my wife, but if I did I might hope to be able to have the same kind of rich and satisfying relationship with a provider as you have managed, but I am not sure I could.
I have no interest in a romantic relationship with any provider due to my personal circumstances, plus many providers I know are married or have an SO. But I've developed friendships with a couple of providers, and I consider one of them to be a very close friend. We've each told the other we'd like our friendship to continue after she retires.
But such a relationship requires much mutual trust (you're going to learn everything about each other) as well as the ability to keep the professional relationship completely separate from the civvy relationship. If both parties can do that, it can work.
Been there, done that and once was enough. Any relationship requires trust, honesty and open communication. Anything less than that and it's doomed right off the bat. I will not go into all the details, but I learned more about her after it ended. They built a house of cards of lies and deceit that came crashing down quickly when things didn't add up. I learned the ugly truth about a lot of things. Talk about a walking waste of a human life, she was and is it. I'm glad I'm nowhere near her now, cause when life finally catches up to her, she is in for a rough time.
That experience was enough to make me seriously question every lady I've met IRL since.
What's the issue? If she is still seeing other clients.. that may be an issue.. for you.. not her.. and if you see other girls and she knows about it.. the same thing may be true..
I've been in a relationship with a girl that I met when she was a provider.. it's still going strong.. over 3 years later.. there are challenges to all relationships.. why would it be any different.. Once a girl is a provider does not mean that she is incapable of still falling in love.. If your strong enough and secure enough not to judge her or to throw her past in her face.. it can work..
for 2 years.. but got burned big time.
Not sure if I would do it again....
Veronica, I am just thinking when first dipping your toe into this foray you always wondered if it limited you to the type of men and the pool of men that you could date. I say this because there are very few people much less men that could accept what you do and the next question is how would they explain it to family and friends. Then in the event that you do meet someone how long to you wait to reveal what you do and then you are apprehensive as you await his or her response and how he would feel about it. This is a conundrum that you and several other practitioners of the companionship demimonde have to come to grips with when finding happiness for yourselves.
With respect to this, this is where you tend to look for men who have experience with women who have worked in the industry. This is a typical avenue because at least the success rate of a relationship tends to go up because these prospective mates have had experience with the lifestyle and know what to expect and usually tend not to overstep their bounds. They also would realize that you tend not to have traditional hours and that they would anticipate you not being available during traditional time periods during the day. Thus this is a type of person where one would have a viable chance of succeeding within a relationship.
Not sure if I would do it again....
In my experience, it hasn't worked out, not as long as the girl still intends to continue as a provider. And does the guy still intend to continue as a hobbyist? Complicated. Humans are typically intrinsically jealous, and as much as we think we will be okay with having our significant other having sex with others, that usually isn't the reality.
If you keep playing she could be upset you are still seeing girls, or at least that you are paying to see other girls. If you stop you could be resentful that she is still in the game but you aren't. If she stops she could blame you for the major life change, etc.
Based on my experiences, I don't believe that I will be able to have a romantic relationship as long as I am a provider. But for those who are able to find a happy balance and make it work - I am happy for them. I hope things work out for you both. Good luck!
Meaning we would both have to quit "hobbying."
Complicated...
This is why I said what I did above. A strong percentage go into it expecting her to change. Wrong thing to do.
As you said, is he going to outright give her the money she is missing by quitting? Is it her idea alone? Is he a jackass that says he wants to hobby just because she is still doing her job? Your hobbying is not a job. Hers is. If she is fine with it and some are, then good.
It is her choice alone to quit or not. If you chose to date her when she is a provider, then you have nothing to say on it. You chose to date her knowing she is a provider. End of story.
Complicated...
Marriage is ify in any case. Regular civie marriages fail all the time. Like 50% of the time over the long run.
Of course there are economic advantages to a stable marriage. However most of that is lost in the divorce, especially for the guy who was the major breadwinner. He gets, as they say, divorce raped.
Nevertheless I can't recommend avoiding marriage because it does work for many people.
That said, I think these days I would try "living together separately." Not marriage but more than friends with benefits. You can both continue to do your own thing, but otherwise hang out exclusively.
plenty of stories about this topic in the archives but I would assume the arrangements between client/escort that turned in to a real relationships were with people of similar age.
I have had LTR's with many hookers/ex hookers and the one closest to my age was 34 when I was 48, Most of the relationships have had a much greater age difference than that, my longest relationship, lasting several years on and off was with a girl almost exactly 30 years younger than me. Her father is about ten years younger than me and even he grudgingly accepted it after some time. (ok, quite some time. lol)
My latest "real" relationship was with a women right about half my age and while I never did meet her father, we did have a discussion about how to break it to him. This was last year, she was 29, I was 57 and we discussed me lying about my age down to about age 45 so he wouldn't freak out. lol
that what you are thinking is most complicated with the odds overwhelmingly stacked against it working out. Most would advise against it. MrFisher's example is one of hitting the long shot and even then it was 10 years in the making with I am sure an incredible investment of emotions and communication to make it work.
But hey, this involves human emotions and anything is possible. I see it like a rubrics cube. There are a myriad of dynamics on all sides and finding the right combination is the work. So not knowing much of your situation it is hard to say just what thoughts and feelings you may find to deal with. I know one of them is fighting the urge to somehow save or change her, especially if she really loves her work and for the most part makes her happy. And are you considering closing down all your profiles and moving on from your hobby activities or is this going to be an open relationship. Then there is the knowledge of her marketing her business regularly and routinely and all the communication that occurs between her and others. Then there is jealousy, especially on those days when a graphic review is posted on various review sites. These just scratch the surface of what you will encounter.
So I am not saying don't go for it but you certainly need to read more of other threads on this subject as well as some very good reads that have been recommended before on the subject. Good luck.
In my experience, it's been bad news all around. It's easy to fall into emotional hijackery. My assumption is a client is trying to manipulate me somehow when this arises. Occasionally, however, I have been truly dickmatized or had a mutual feeling thing. Too many issues though.
And, of course, the cliched 'the minute there is a problem, your a whore/can't be trusted.'
Listen, it's possible. I've seen it work once. Once. But here is my suggestion: ask yourself (and it's ironic, cuz I ask my clients this occasionally) what are your wants, needs, and desires out of the situation? What are your limits, soft & hard? ie, what is something that would bother you in this dynamic, but you could live with; and what is something that would be a definite line crosser?
How does she feel about the situation? Did she immediately mention a boyfriend when you expressed emotional connection? Rent or bills ? No? Well, then, that may be a good sign. May.
How do you feel about her profession? Because it IS a profession.
How does she feel about your feelings?
It is hard to maintain mutual respect, trust, and emotional honesty at the best of times- throw in this dynamic, and it's even harder. But give it a shot, who knows. At worst you get rejected, find another atf, and fuck the pain away. At best, your insanely happy.
But please keep in mind: many of us sell fantasy and image. Clients want a relationship, so they can access that fantasy fulltime, or because they have developed emotional attachments to the fantasy. Do you truly, really, honestly have a thing for her, or what she represents?
Probably the best advice I've read on this subject in many years. Thank you for your insights.
And, of course, the cliched 'the minute there is a problem, your a whore/can't be trusted.'
Listen, it's possible. I've seen it work once. Once. But here is my suggestion: ask yourself (and it's ironic, cuz I ask my clients this occasionally) what are your wants, needs, and desires out of the situation? What are your limits, soft & hard? ie, what is something that would bother you in this dynamic, but you could live with; and what is something that would be a definite line crosser?
How does she feel about the situation? Did she immediately mention a boyfriend when you expressed emotional connection? Rent or bills ? No? Well, then, that may be a good sign. May.
How do you feel about her profession? Because it IS a profession.
How does she feel about your feelings?
It is hard to maintain mutual respect, trust, and emotional honesty at the best of times- throw in this dynamic, and it's even harder. But give it a shot, who knows. At worst you get rejected, find another atf, and fuck the pain away. At best, your insanely happy.
But please keep in mind: many of us sell fantasy and image. Clients want a relationship, so they can access that fantasy fulltime, or because they have developed emotional attachments to the fantasy. Do you truly, really, honestly have a thing for her, or what she represents?
Unsolicitedly mentioned that she did date a client. She ended up breaking up because she said it was exhausting being a different person around him.
Personally, I've got three dealbreakers on whether I would date a woman. Being a current/past escort is not one of them
Thanks all. Some very sound advice and really appreciate the feedback from those who have attempted and both failed and succeeded.
Tricky for sure, but then what relationship isn't. I'll continue to research as suggested and provide an update.
Most hookers have or have had an SO while working, you are hardly blazing a trail here.
I've dated literally dozens of girls in this business, both active and retired. My success rate has been roughly the same as dating bartenders, nurses or secretaries. All the relationships eventually ended. The one thing I can say for the hookers I have dated, the breakups were rarely as drama filled as when breaking up with women who did something else for a living
Any marriage is hard. You build a life together, so the marriage is hard, but the divorce is even harder. It's very devastating for many. Your whole life gets shaken apart, and you have to start all over. And deal with "did I do the right thing?" for a long time.
Starting a relationship with this kind of a background is hard. But so is everything else, right?
No matter what you do, it's going to take work. I don't think any of us can look ahead into our lives and know 100% if we are making the right choice in relationships. That's why you have to go with your gut and do what you think is best. Think about it. If you date that person and it doesn't work out, does anybody die? No.
Sometimes you have to try and fail, or try and succeed, to know. Most of us are too finite to really know what is the perfect thing to do, because - there really isn't a perfect thing to do in any situation.
But again, we are real people meeting real people.
I haven't dated outside of P4P with an actual client, except once in the beginning. The dude ended up being very manipulative, so that's why I dated him. And he completely was not paying me, nor taking care of me-but wanted me to quit the industry. I dried up real quick, lol. Was not interested in sex lol. I figured out that was unhealthy real quick and got the fuck out. Did I die? Nope. Did he? Nope. Did we both learn? Don't know, but I know I did.
And again, sure. It failed. But it fails on match.com all the time too. But nobody died, and it was a learning experience for me.
So ask yourself. "If I try this, is anybody's life going to be utterly destroyed?" Probably not. Could it be ugly if it didn't work out? Maybe. But that's life. We risk things getting ugly every time we invite someone new into our lives, especially the intimacy of friendship and lovers.
You really have to just try it and see. Of course, let it fall naturally.
If you're married, my answer is - keep paying lol. That's all only if you're single lol
Starting a relationship with this kind of a background is hard. But so is everything else, right?
No matter what you do, it's going to take work. I don't think any of us can look ahead into our lives and know 100% if we are making the right choice in relationships. That's why you have to go with your gut and do what you think is best. Think about it. If you date that person and it doesn't work out, does anybody die? No.
Sometimes you have to try and fail, or try and succeed, to know. Most of us are too finite to really know what is the perfect thing to do, because - there really isn't a perfect thing to do in any situation.
But again, we are real people meeting real people.
I haven't dated outside of P4P with an actual client, except once in the beginning. The dude ended up being very manipulative, so that's why I dated him. And he completely was not paying me, nor taking care of me-but wanted me to quit the industry. I dried up real quick, lol. Was not interested in sex lol. I figured out that was unhealthy real quick and got the fuck out. Did I die? Nope. Did he? Nope. Did we both learn? Don't know, but I know I did.
And again, sure. It failed. But it fails on match.com all the time too. But nobody died, and it was a learning experience for me.
So ask yourself. "If I try this, is anybody's life going to be utterly destroyed?" Probably not. Could it be ugly if it didn't work out? Maybe. But that's life. We risk things getting ugly every time we invite someone new into our lives, especially the intimacy of friendship and lovers.
You really have to just try it and see. Of course, let it fall naturally.
If you're married, my answer is - keep paying lol. That's all only if you're single lol
What makes it great also makes it suck. As a provider, dating normal guys is kinda tough because even if you quit the biz, you'll always have to have a secret from him.
When dating someone who you met as a client, you both know how you met, BUT... even after quitting seeing other clients, working a legitimate job, etc, every time you get in a fight, he will throw the "you used to be an escort" thing at you, accuse you of secretly keeping in touch with clients, and his insecurity of dating a former escort will be the death of the relationship. Long story short, it was a fcking hot mess!
I have dated a lot of providers and former providers and while I have my faults, a LOT of them, I have NEVER thrown the "well you are just a whore" thing at any of the women I have dated.
Not all guys are that insecure where it comes to dating providers or former providers.
Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of reasons why I am not a "keeper" I am shallow, I have the attention span of a gnat and commitment to me is something that I take "one day at a time" The idea of "forever" is a foreign one to me. but I have NEVER called a provider/exprovider I have dated a slut/whore/prostitute in the heat of anger.
BTW, I am sorry to hear things did not work out for you, but it's nice to see you back here posting again. His loss will be our gain.
It's best not to get involved. I've been a provider for just over a year now. One of my first clients and I became closer and I found myself time zapped and not taking care of my business. When I fall, I fall hard. I started with the business as a single and carefree girl looking to make money and find fame in the hobby world. It's best for both parties to keep it professional and allow everyone to win-win.
I'm not a heartless sex robot, I just have a lot of bills.