TER General Board

Re: I'd suggest you start by looking at it as a activity, then play to up your game.
mrjoesmalls 3 Reviews 440 reads
posted

What do you mean talk to anyone in a non-functional way on a daily basis? I don't have social media. I've tried the online dating apps like OKCupid, Tinder, etc, but that's about it. I interact with coworkers. I get together with friends after work on Fridays or meetup on weekends every now and then. I think meeting new people has been really hard. That's why I've been trying to develop interests. Unfortunately, I'm exhausting my list of things I'd be interested in learning/trying and nothing is sticking. That is I'll sign up for a class to learn something or a skill, but I find I don't really enjoy it to the point where I'd want to continue doing it on my spare time. And I was hoping those classes would allow me to meet or talk to people but it hasn't led to that so far.

Posted By: Jensen36363
You were just given a bit of the game plan for getting the date -- ASK and present the structured outing for her consideration.  
   
 Now, you'll have to be some place where a woman you might be interested is and put yourself in a position for a conversation to start. If you really have not such situations that are just part of your daily life you'll need the training wheels and really small baby steps it seem.  
   
 Do you talk to anyone in a non-functional way on a daily basis or are you entirely a social network/app type person -- only social interaction online? If so fucking cut that crutch out fast. Don't even worry or think about getting a date -- start working on just making a new acquaintance then you can work up to friend (of any sex) and then work on relationship. You can use the prior advice to help you get this started -- just make the structure about getting some personal information about someone you don't know. For instance, when your standing in line at the check-out set a goal to see if you can start a conversation and learn if the other person thinks/does/lives/works as X.  
   
 Once you start getting comfortable starting a meaningless conversation to pass the time waiting in a line you can move on from there and I suspect find each additional step easier and easier to take. One thing this will mean -- you probably need to spend some time being interested in all kinds of things in the big world around you so you might start with what you know and then look at what's connected to that that you don't know or search for things you had no idea were related (everything is connected via some path). If you like gaming, may look into how graphics developed and then maybe how the same technology is related to remote medical assistance, or type of color theory or matched with the sound track, how it was influenced by film or has influenced film or how gaming grew out of real world games and maybe trivia about the origins of the game and any social meaning it had. Try to keep it on the entertaining non-serious side (most of us appreciate a reason to smile or laugh and I think most forget to look for that in their day so don't mind the intrusion in such cases).

Let me just throw this out. I have never been in a relationship and only on one date. By my mid 20s, I decided perhaps it would help if I saw an escort to put me at ease with women. All my experiences have been with strippers/escorts. I just really wanted to feel loved and wanted (and reciprocate it). Unfortunately, seeing escorts does not do that although its easy to get lost and think it does sometimes.

If anything, it's probably made it worse since all my interactions up to this point have been in exchange for money. The absurdity of the situation is that I feel completely at ease and comfortable talking to a naked woman in bed who I've never met before, but struggle talking to them in non-monetary scenarios fully clothed. For me it seems to give me this high. I'm completely anxious before meeting, but then during the meeting things get better. And like any high, the drop from it is absolutely emotionally crippling hours later.

It's gotten worse over the years even though it's only been 5 years. I tried to stop for a bit, but that didn't last long. The only thought that runs through my head now is how I can make more money just so that I can see more escorts. Logically, I know this won't get me what I really want, but the alternative just seems like loneliness.

I've been told to just put myself out there and pick up hobbies and interests. I've tried taking classes to pick up interests and meet people, but nothing has come of it. I've been seeing a therapist for many years as well, but it hasn't really helped with this particular issue.

I can't imagine I'm the only one to have struggled with this in this hobby. How is it that hobbyists separate what happens with providers from reality? How do providers do this on their end when they see so many clients? I've read many times here from both sides that sometimes connections do form, but how do you know when it's genuine? And if it is genuine, why is there still an exchange of money?

Has anyone here managed to develop skills to better separate their emotions when partaking in this hobby?

Maybe I'm asking all the wrong questions here, but I'm just rather frustrated and lonely. Thanks for reading. Any advice welcomed.

souls_harbor827 reads

I'm not a big fan of "therapy."  

Your interaction with paid women proves there is no actual issue with women.   But you are stuck in an anxiety loop, and you reinforce the loop each time you go through the situation.

I used to have a milder issue with guitar recitals -- I guess you would call it stage fright.  I asked a doctor to prescribe me a beta blocker Inderal (Propranolol) (which are prescribed for heart issues.)   It had the effect of suppressing a great deal of the bodily response to the flight/fight sensation.  So the feedback loop was reduced.  Doing that a few times helped "learn" a new response loop that didn't involve so much anxiety.
 
I'm not saying that is the only way to break the loop, but it does work for some people.

Prescription drugs?  He's not weak-minded, he just has some social issues with women who aren't naked, and you want him to be a drug user. Geez.

souls_harbor591 reads

You should step away from this one since you don't have a clue about it.

I've read about this and discussed it with a doctor who authored the prescription.  I've actually tried it and it helped.

All you have is your flapping gums

In your mind that practically makes you an expert. See what I mean by the more you say, the more you make yourself look like a bigger idiot. The OP, who you don't know, should consider taking prescription drugs because YOU discussed it with a doctor?  You're setting a new standard for asinine.

GaGambler564 reads

To some people this seems to be the answer to everything, just "take a pill" and everything will be just fine. Yeah, great fucking advice. What a maroon.

Maybe SH will just share his "script" with the OP and he can just skip ever seeing a doctor, what could possibly go wrong?

Thanks for the link. Interesting read. I wouldn't take anything recommended by a doctor and understanding what it does, but it certainly provides a different approach/perspective. What's kind of strange is that I've done public speaking. I've played sports although I never performed well due to skill. So in those scenarios I guess I'd be dealing with anxiety but it's not manifesting itself in the same manner as it does when it comes to approaching a lady I might find attractive in public.

Posted By: souls_harbor
can-you-treat-stage-fright

JakeFromStateFarm856 reads

This game attracts lots of maladjusted people who end up doing plenty of self-destructive things.  The examples are too numerous to mention.
I don't say this to tell you that you don't have a problem.  You do, but I'm not a shrink and don't have a solution.  But at least you recognize the problem and can articulate it, so there's hope.
Look at it this way, at least you're not a stalker or an abuser or a thief.  We've got plenty of those, too. And despite being vulnerable to the syndrome, you've managed not to fall for a hooker and not get up.
All I can tell you is you sound like a decent, self-aware guy so just hang in there and it may work out.

Give the civie broads a white envelope so you'll feel normal with them.  

Just make sure you don't review them. ;)

And imagine they are naked when talking to them. :) Okay, maybe that won't help.

Posted By: JackDunphy
Give the civie broads a white envelope so you'll feel normal with them.  
   
 Just make sure you don't review them. ;)

...who doesn't take a back seat to anyone when it comes to being an asshole, gave the guy a straight answer.

His post had a strange vein of morality to it. It's almost like he actually cared.

NoYellowEnvelope571 reads

The key is to understand what kind if reality it is, and isn't. It isn't a reality in which she's your girlfriend. It's a reality in which you're her client and you're paying her for having a good time in each other's company for a period of time.  

I've found a certain approach has helped me deal with situations like this during my life.  It's based on the premise that if a certain action isn't possible, you can't take that action.  My approach is to decide up front that certain actions are simply not possible. For example, I decided when I got married that I would under no circumstances have an affair. And I decided when I started seeing providers that I'd never allow a relationship with a provider to become a romantic relationship.  I've found it's easier to stay out of trouble when troublesome paths have been eliminated from my consideration.

I know this sounds simplistic, but it's worked for me.  I've developed platonic friendships with a couple of providers, but have absolutely no interest in a romantic relationship with them.  Nor they with me.  There was a provider who started hinting she wanted a romantic relationship, so I had to stop seeing her.

Try to enjoy this hobby for what it is: a great way to meet some wonderful ladies, have lots of fun and learn some things (I have, anyway), without the complications of civvy relationships. You may find a "connection" with one or more of these ladies, but take that for what it is also: recognition that you've found someone with whom you greatly enjoy spending time, and she may feel the same way about you because you're an exemplary client.  If you can't stop there, then it's time to focus more on those other hobbies and interests.

That sounds like a great approach. My hang up is on the last part: on the provider's end, how is it possible for them to say they enjoy spending time with me when they otherwise wouldn't if it weren't for the money? It really makes it hard to believe anything a provider ever says.

Posted By: NoYellowEnvelope
The key is to understand what kind if reality it is, and isn't. It isn't a reality in which she's your girlfriend. It's a reality in which you're her client and you're paying her for having a good time in each other's company for a period of time.  
   
 I've found a certain approach has helped me deal with situations like this during my life.  It's based on the premise that if a certain action isn't possible, you can't take that action.  My approach is to decide up front that certain actions are simply not possible. For example, I decided when I got married that I would under no circumstances have an affair. And I decided when I started seeing providers that I'd never allow a relationship with a provider to become a romantic relationship.  I've found it's easier to stay out of trouble when troublesome paths have been eliminated from my consideration.  
   
 I know this sounds simplistic, but it's worked for me.  I've developed platonic friendships with a couple of providers, but have absolutely no interest in a romantic relationship with them.  Nor they with me.  There was a provider who started hinting she wanted a romantic relationship, so I had to stop seeing her.  
   
 Try to enjoy this hobby for what it is: a great way to meet some wonderful ladies, have lots of fun and learn some things (I have, anyway), without the complications of civvy relationships. You may find a "connection" with one or more of these ladies, but take that for what it is also: recognition that you've found someone with whom you greatly enjoy spending time, and she may feel the same way about you because you're an exemplary client.  If you can't stop there, then it's time to focus more on those other hobbies and interests.

NoYellowEnvelope604 reads

... that they say they enjoy spending time with you?

In my years in this hobby, I had the feeling only once that the provider wasn't enjoying spending the time with me.  That was a few years ago and was my worst experience with a provider.  And it's possible some of these ladies were just great actresses. ;)  It doesn't mean they were in love with me, but that they weren't hoping the clock would speed up so I could be out the door sooner.

I think if you go into a date with a provider with a positive attitude and with the goal of both of you having an enjoyable time, and do all the other basic things you should do when seeing a provider, it will turn out that way almost all the time.  It also helps to do your research--read reviews, read web sites, read discussion threads (for providers who post here) etc to get a sense for the provider's personality. Does she seem to enjoy her work?  Does she have a fun attitude about it?

Posted By: mrjoesmalls
My hang up is on the last part: on the provider's end, how is it possible for them to say they enjoy spending time with me when they otherwise wouldn't if it weren't for the money? It really makes it hard to believe anything a provider ever says.  
Because you're not the only guy that treats them well. It feels good to be treated well and they're getting payed to boot. If they gave you free sex they would be giving at least half their clients free sex. Why would they do that when they can get paid?  

They've probably also had civie relationships that started the way you treat them, but once the guy "has her" the treatment changes, or it was sexual from the start and he never treated her that well. He wanted to fuck her and then do something else, or take her to dinner then fuck her then do something else, or fuck her, get something to eat and go to sleep. And he's not showering her with adoration any more because he doesn't need to. He worked his way into her life. He can do it to someone else. She tolerated it because she had feelings for him or thought he would change or thought she couldn't do any better because it wasn't the first time it had happened. They've probably also have the exact opposite civie relationship where the guy adores her and quickly get's clingy when the relationship starts because nothing she can do is enough to keep his heart from constantly breaking even though he has everything he thought he wanted. In either case there can be jealousy and controlling behavior.  

So even if an escort has feelings for you, which isn't required to enjoy your company, the idea of switching to a civie relationship might not be that appealing because you might not continue to treat her the same. You treating them well and them enjoying it isn't much of an indicator of anything to them. Keeping you as a client is safe because you don't "have them" yet and as a bonus they get sex and money in addition to their independence and the adoration that comes most often in civie life when a guy is trying to swoon them into sex.

Even if there's a reciprocated relationship and it's good, 2-3 years and the love chemicals wear off and then it gets real. You may not have had that experience but they may have, and they look at you and see someone who is under the influence.

That's why I suggested non-sexual intimacy. I think it would be a good experiment. I think a lot of issues when trying to get closer is a sense of guilt. The guy, being a nice guy, may feel guilty because the sexual urge complicates the idea that he might enjoy her company for the sake of enjoying her company and truth be told without the prospect of sex he might not have the same interest. The shy guy is not much different than the jerk except he feels bad about his desires. That statement is general but good food for thought and makes it easy to understand why it's more comfortable to pay for it directly.

My experience is that some girls will use their words to manipulate but the good ones mean what they say, and they'll take it personally upon noticing they are doubted when they've given nothing to doubt. Understanding them is a gift they have to give. Not that it will hurt their feelings much when they are doubted but it will injure their view of the person who is doubting them. Now they can only offer pussy because you won't accept what they're telling you. It might seem dubious, but if the paragraph before this one makes sense, the inability to believe someone who hasn't been proven guilty of being deceptive could be a projection of how a person feels about themselves. I'm not saying you're not a good guy but maybe you don't believe it. I think all of the suggestions you've gotten are good but if you stay in the hobby you need to start appreciating their candor and seeing them as teachers, directly and indirectly, rather than relationship material. The woman I'm infatuated with is my greatest teacher but I learn something from everyone I meet (even the BP girls who acted like they didn't want to touch me and had me out the door after 15 minutes when I payed for an hour). All of this stuff can translate into real life one way or another.

VOO-doo380 reads

I don't spend time with clients, gratis. However, it's not because I don't like them - at least, not in most cases). But it's simply what I do for a living.

I had a dinner date the other night with a totally cool, funny guy. Great time! Would I see him again? Enthusiastically. Would I accept an offer for a free date? No, he is a client, and I have a rate. *That is what I do for a living.*

He wants to have dinner with a woman, who treats him a certain way, and makes him feel a certain way. That's *exactly why people hire me*. It’s a service. It takes up energy, and also, the time I'm devoting to his needs, is time I could be using for work, study, family, rest, pets, etc.  

It doesn't mean that I don't enjoy the company, or the experience. But I'm catering to him... answering to his schedule, his needs...  as a CLIENT. Because his money will buy food and pay for sh**.  

It's not that I'd be totally repulsed at the idea of spending time with him, either way. But there not been an envelope, I would not have really been inclined to drive all the way to NYC, sit for 2+ hours over dinner/drinks, and spend an entire evening out w/a date (I have other things to do). Plus, I got behind on sleep, lol. But none of that is necessarily bad, or unenjoyable. I had fun!  

Most people do enjoy some aspects of their jobs (I would hope!). For instance, a teacher can genuinely care about her students and feel deeply invested in their success. A bartender can enjoy banter with the people she meets. However, it's kind of ridiculous to suggest that they devote their time and lives to those activities without being compensated, just because they might find the work enjoyable.  

If she appears to enjoy spending time with you, and happily will see you again... then she likes you, enough... *in this particular context.*  

Obviously, a relationship is a lot different because there is more of a balance of needs. And, romantic attraction etc. But that's not what hobbying is really about

I have an unusual suggestion. Obviously it would be easier if you could just make yourself relax when dating regular women, but you've tried that already. Some escorts offer a social rate, where you would pay a much lower hourly rate to go on a date in public. Maybe you could find an escort in your area that you haven't seen yet that charges a social rate, and you could practice dating with her. Maybe even do a mixed date after the first time or two, where you pay for a couple of hours at the social rate, followed by an hour of sex. Some providers who don't offer a social rate may at least offer a discounted dinner date option that assumes a mixture of public dining and private sex. This could help you adjust to more normal dating, which you could try again after doing some of these social rate situations

I understand the suggestion, but how would I know whether the provider is being genuine in what she says during the dinner date? She'd still be getting paid. I feel like once money is involved it's hard to believe anything a provider might say.

Posted By: VincenzoG91
I have an unusual suggestion. Obviously it would be easier if you could just make yourself relax when dating regular women, but you've tried that already. Some escorts offer a social rate, where you would pay a much lower hourly rate to go on a date in public. Maybe you could find an escort in your area that you haven't seen yet that charges a social rate, and you could practice dating with her. Maybe even do a mixed date after the first time or two, where you pay for a couple of hours at the social rate, followed by an hour of sex. Some providers who don't offer a social rate may at least offer a discounted dinner date option that assumes a mixture of public dining and private sex. This could help you adjust to more normal dating, which you could try again after doing some of these social rate situations.  
   
 

When you are with providers, you have structured time, and you know when you leave it is"over." When you are getting to know a woman outside of the hobby, the time you are with her is less structured (what do you share about yourself and what do you want to learn about her while at dinner, for example), AND you aren't sure where the "date" is going. So try to structure the time in the ways that a session's time is structured.

Before starting, have a list of at least 3 prospects.

1) Only ask for a date after you know what you're going to do. If you find yourself saying something like, "I thought maybe we could get together and go somewhere tomorrow," you're setting up an unstructured situation. If you say, "I've been wanting to try that new XYZ Restaurant that opened last summer, but haven't had a chance. Would you like to go for dinner there Friday evening at 7:00? I could meet you and make sure you get home safe by 11:00." This sounds overly structured, yes, but I'm trying to illustrate the point.

Don't worry if she says no. Getting rejected is part of what we do in the dating game. Maybe think about how you could have done better. Then try the next one on your list.

When you get a date, you know what you are doing. You are going to the XYZ for dinner at 7:00 and you are obligated to get her home by 11:00. In that time, you get to know each other, and see if you like each other.  

It doesn't have to be dinner. A concert or a movie or whatever, but a dinner that is in some way a special event gives you an opportunity to talk and focus on each other rather than on the entertainment.

2) If you don't feel a connection that you want to pursue, don't bullshit her. Say goodnight at 11:00 and leave with no expectations of a sand date. If you like each other, set up another "date." A specific activity starting at a specific time and ending at a set time. In other words, a structured evening together.

3) If you follow these steps, you won't be at a loss when with the woman. At some point your time together will be unstructured, but by then you'll be comfortable with each other and you can proceed off book.

Do this with several women in a row, assuming that you aren't going to knock the ball out of the park every time, but concentrate on getting better at the game. It won't take long. The point is you'll feel the same ease of being with a woman who may or may not want to take the relationship to anther level as you feel with a provider during a session.

This is really helpful when laid out in that manner for dates. But I'd first need to get dates before following this advice. How do you go about getting dates and approaching women?

Posted By: WickedBrut
When you are with providers, you have structured time, and you know when you leave it is"over." When you are getting to know a woman outside of the hobby, the time you are with her is less structured (what do you share about yourself and what do you want to learn about her while at dinner, for example), AND you aren't sure where the "date" is going. So try to structure the time in the ways that a session's time is structured.  
   
 Before starting, have a list of at least 3 prospects.  
   
 1) Only ask for a date after you know what you're going to do. If you find yourself saying something like, "I thought maybe we could get together and go somewhere tomorrow," you're setting up an unstructured situation. If you say, "I've been wanting to try that new XYZ Restaurant that opened last summer, but haven't had a chance. Would you like to go for dinner there Friday evening at 7:00? I could meet you and make sure you get home safe by 11:00." This sounds overly structured, yes, but I'm trying to illustrate the point.  
   
 Don't worry if she says no. Getting rejected is part of what we do in the dating game. Maybe think about how you could have done better. Then try the next one on your list.  
   
 When you get a date, you know what you are doing. You are going to the XYZ for dinner at 7:00 and you are obligated to get her home by 11:00. In that time, you get to know each other, and see if you like each other.  
   
 It doesn't have to be dinner. A concert or a movie or whatever, but a dinner that is in some way a special event gives you an opportunity to talk and focus on each other rather than on the entertainment.  
   
 2) If you don't feel a connection that you want to pursue, don't bullshit her. Say goodnight at 11:00 and leave with no expectations of a sand date. If you like each other, set up another "date." A specific activity starting at a specific time and ending at a set time. In other words, a structured evening together.  
   
 3) If you follow these steps, you won't be at a loss when with the woman. At some point your time together will be unstructured, but by then you'll be comfortable with each other and you can proceed off book.  
   
 Do this with several women in a row, assuming that you aren't going to knock the ball out of the park every time, but concentrate on getting better at the game. It won't take long. The point is you'll feel the same ease of being with a woman who may or may not want to take the relationship to anther level as you feel with a provider during a session.

You were just given a bit of the game plan for getting the date -- ASK and present the structured outing for her consideration.

Now, you'll have to be some place where a woman you might be interested is and put yourself in a position for a conversation to start. If you really have not such situations that are just part of your daily life you'll need the training wheels and really small baby steps it seem.  

Do you talk to anyone in a non-functional way on a daily basis or are you entirely a social network/app type person -- only social interaction online? If so fucking cut that crutch out fast. Don't even worry or think about getting a date -- start working on just making a new acquaintance then you can work up to friend (of any sex) and then work on relationship. You can use the prior advice to help you get this started -- just make the structure about getting some personal information about someone you don't know. For instance, when your standing in line at the check-out set a goal to see if you can start a conversation and learn if the other person thinks/does/lives/works as X.

Once you start getting comfortable starting a meaningless conversation to pass the time waiting in a line you can move on from there and I suspect find each additional step easier and easier to take. One thing this will mean -- you probably need to spend some time being interested in all kinds of things in the big world around you so you might start with what you know and then look at what's connected to that that you don't know or search for things you had no idea were related (everything is connected via some path). If you like gaming, may look into how graphics developed and then maybe how the same technology is related to remote medical assistance, or type of color theory or matched with the sound track, how it was influenced by film or has influenced film or how gaming grew out of real world games and maybe trivia about the origins of the game and any social meaning it had. Try to keep it on the entertaining non-serious side (most of us appreciate a reason to smile or laugh and I think most forget to look for that in their day so don't mind the intrusion in such cases).

What do you mean talk to anyone in a non-functional way on a daily basis? I don't have social media. I've tried the online dating apps like OKCupid, Tinder, etc, but that's about it. I interact with coworkers. I get together with friends after work on Fridays or meetup on weekends every now and then. I think meeting new people has been really hard. That's why I've been trying to develop interests. Unfortunately, I'm exhausting my list of things I'd be interested in learning/trying and nothing is sticking. That is I'll sign up for a class to learn something or a skill, but I find I don't really enjoy it to the point where I'd want to continue doing it on my spare time. And I was hoping those classes would allow me to meet or talk to people but it hasn't led to that so far.

Posted By: Jensen36363
You were just given a bit of the game plan for getting the date -- ASK and present the structured outing for her consideration.  
   
 Now, you'll have to be some place where a woman you might be interested is and put yourself in a position for a conversation to start. If you really have not such situations that are just part of your daily life you'll need the training wheels and really small baby steps it seem.  
   
 Do you talk to anyone in a non-functional way on a daily basis or are you entirely a social network/app type person -- only social interaction online? If so fucking cut that crutch out fast. Don't even worry or think about getting a date -- start working on just making a new acquaintance then you can work up to friend (of any sex) and then work on relationship. You can use the prior advice to help you get this started -- just make the structure about getting some personal information about someone you don't know. For instance, when your standing in line at the check-out set a goal to see if you can start a conversation and learn if the other person thinks/does/lives/works as X.  
   
 Once you start getting comfortable starting a meaningless conversation to pass the time waiting in a line you can move on from there and I suspect find each additional step easier and easier to take. One thing this will mean -- you probably need to spend some time being interested in all kinds of things in the big world around you so you might start with what you know and then look at what's connected to that that you don't know or search for things you had no idea were related (everything is connected via some path). If you like gaming, may look into how graphics developed and then maybe how the same technology is related to remote medical assistance, or type of color theory or matched with the sound track, how it was influenced by film or has influenced film or how gaming grew out of real world games and maybe trivia about the origins of the game and any social meaning it had. Try to keep it on the entertaining non-serious side (most of us appreciate a reason to smile or laugh and I think most forget to look for that in their day so don't mind the intrusion in such cases).

anything. You've answered your own question but you're rather rigid.  
We're not gonna have the conversation for ya, right?

The looking for "interests" idea is a good one ... wtf is so hard. Your problem is that you don't even seem to know what YOU like ... smh

Do you like to drink? Eat? There's lots of Meetup groups where people wanna meet people outside of the dating/bar scene. You gotta like eating right? Even if you don't drink. There's even Fun without Alcohol groups. I'd join and go if there was a woman there I found atrractive and wanted to meet.  

There is actually a group called Meetup. You know this?  

But keep trying. And if it sucks, find someone who looks like they could care less about being there. A clone! I'm sure you're not alone. There's your icebreaker! If your wrong, no harm no foul. Just admit why you're there, to meet someone, and take that conversation to wherever it leads  

MOST IMPORTANT .... bring a sense of humor along even if you have to rent one for the evening. People like someone that has one. BTW ... women are people too.

-- Modified on 1/12/2017 11:29:46 AM

I guess if you're not in contact with anyone, start hanging out at Starbucks or some such coffeehouse where people make small talk with strangers all the time.

By the way, when seeking the woman of your dreams don't shun the women who appear to be something other than your dream. They all have friends and maybe they'll introduce you.

That last part is ridiculously hard for me. Perhaps it's that this hobby had led to me objectifying women, but it just seems like if I'm not attracted to them or it can't lead to a relationship, what point is there in getting to know them? I'm aware it's a rather disgusting attitude to have. God that sounds so awful. But I've tried recently just hanging out with ladies who I was either not attracted to or there was no chance of anything getting past friends. Just frustrating all around.

Posted By: WickedBrut
I guess if you're not in contact with anyone, start hanging out at Starbucks or some such coffeehouse where people make small talk with strangers all the time.  
   
 By the way, when seeking the woman of your dreams don't shun the women who appear to be something other than your dream. They all have friends and maybe they'll introduce you.

I saw that video the other day. You're too funny. If only things were that simple.

Posted By: CorbinCandor
(The attached example is similar to many anxiety levels)

You need to stop seeing escorts and start seeing women with an eye towards establishing a real relationship.  Try a dating service, a professional match maker, hobbies, churches - whatever.  Keep at it.  Practice makes perfect.  Join a gym and USE it - get your body in shape.  If nothing else, it will give you something to do to keep your mind off it...

You are missing a very important part of life - and this scene is just going to fuck you up if you keep on with it instead of developing the skills to have a normal, committed relationship.   Almost NOTHING translates from P4P to civvy relationships - so what you are learning is not going to help you find a life partner which seems to be what you want.  As an example - you do not end up naked with her within 5 minutes of meeting her for the first time.

P4P is good as an option - it absolutely sucks if it's not an option.   So make it an option.  Then come back if you feel the urge - or if you have sexual needs that are not getting met in your "real life" relationship.  But for the love of pete - don't skip the real life relationship for this.  That way lies madness.

-- Modified on 1/10/2017 12:01:04 AM

-- Modified on 1/10/2017 12:01:55 AM

I've tried some dating apps and sites but haven't had any luck with the them. No messages returned or matches. I've tried speed dating as well. Same story. I haven't tried a Pro match maker though. Any ideas of what they're like? Unfortunately, I don't really have hobbies that I'm passionate about. That's why I've taken classes to see if I could develop these interests. But nothing sticks there. I do work out at home to stay in shape with weights.

Posted By: mongo19621954
You need to stop seeing escorts and start seeing women with an eye towards establishing a real relationship.  Try a dating service, a professional match maker, hobbies, churches - whatever.  Keep at it.  Practice makes perfect.  Join a gym and USE it - get your body in shape.  If nothing else, it will give you something to do to keep your mind off it...  
   
 You are missing a very important part of life - and this scene is just going to fuck you up if you keep on with it instead of developing the skills to have a normal, committed relationship.   Almost NOTHING translates from P4P to civvy relationships - so what you are learning is not going to help you find a life partner which seems to be what you want.  As an example - you do not end up naked with her within 5 minutes of meeting her for the first time.  
   
 P4P is good as an option - it absolutely sucks if it's not an option.   So make it an option.  Then come back if you feel the urge - or if you have sexual needs that are not getting met in your "real life" relationship.  But for the love of pete - don't skip the real life relationship for this.  That way lies madness.  
   
 -- Modified on 1/10/2017 12:01:04 AM

-- Modified on 1/10/2017 12:01:55 AM

GaGambler629 reads

I think you need something that will give you the confidence to deal with women as more than just a sexual object that you can "rent" for a while.

Why not try a sugar baby? Like hookers, most SB's will see you no matter how socially awkward you are, and unlike hookers you can spend a lot of non BCD time with them to get to know them as people. Think of it as learning to date with "training wheels" Yes, you will still technically be paying them to be nice to you, but it might help you learn the social skills you seem to lack to meet women without paying them.

If you like this idea you can learn more about it by checking out The Erotic Highway board right here on TER, There are several of us who see both hookers and SB's and we can give you some tips and offers some suggestions on how to get started.

FatVern457 reads

I doubt if any paid relationship is going to help anyone with their real relationships.

GaGambler478 reads

The very fact that you don't like it makes me believe it's most likely the PERFECT solution for him as he will get used to interacting with women with his clothes on and hopefully this will force him out of his comfort zone.

FatVern590 reads

Haven't you called Sugar babes, hookers who just can't admit they are hookers?

How is paying a hooker to spend time with him in social setting going to help him interact with women who he didn't pay to spend time with?

Agree with the fat man on this one.

Lots of reasons to pay a sex worker...but learning how to interact with the opposite sex in a civvie setting, is not one of them.

MfS

GaGambler571 reads

and meeting various SB's, most of which will NOT respond to simply giving them a wad of cash.

In the sugar world, there is a bit of "seduction" necessary, but most of the hard work has been done, thus it's great segue into Civvie dating, it's sort of like dating with training wheels.  

I don't know if you have spent anytime in the Sugar World, but sex is not guaranteed when a girl agrees to meet with you, with the exception of the "quasi hookers" over 90% of the first dates in a public setting and unlike the hooker world your success rate will to a certain extent depend on how much game you have. Believe it or not, there are SB's that won't fuck anyone, no matter how much you offer them, but they are in the minority of course. For a guy with little social skills, this will be a way to get women to actually meet with him, which he seems to be unable to do in the civvie world, but not all of them will fuck him, which will force him to develop at least some game.

In the civvie world he is batting .000. in the hooker world he is batting 1.000, in the Sugar World he will probably probably bat somewhere between .200-.300 which will increase as he gets better at it.  

As usual the "fat man" doesn't have a clue as to what he is talking about.

The best way to interact in the real world (not the sugar, or any other made up world) is to actually participate in it.

You want to yell, scream, drop F bombs..have at it. I just happen to think the fat guy is right on this one.

MfSD>>>>

GaGambler363 reads

I gave you a very civil, reasoned and rational reply.

I mean if you WANT me to go all GaGambler on you, I can do that too. lol

Some guys need training wheels, The OP appears to be one of those people. You seem to disagree, that's your right, wrong as it is.

You clearly derive some out sized sense of individual worth, by your rather voluminous contributions here. Ignore......

MfSD>>>>

-- Modified on 1/11/2017 3:08:35 PM

-- Modified on 1/11/2017 3:20:29 PM

At a high level, the idea doesn't seem like it would help. I'd still be paying someone to be with me and that's the only reason they'd be with me. But I wasn't aware that SBs won't necessarily have sex with you. That would certainly change things to some extent I suppose. I'd imagine approaching SBs is still very similar to approaching providers, no? I haven't really ever looked into it, but I do see where you're coming from with your advice.

One of the problems I have is approaching girls. And as a result, it doesn't seem I catch their attention or interest when I do try doing things online or through speed dating. I wish I understood how my friend was so successful with the online dating apps like Tinder, etc. I've been told there are no such things as leagues, but it just seems like the girls I'm attracted to aren't attracted to me. Too many years of watching porn and dealing with providers probably has contributed to the warped taste I have in a woman's physical attributes.

Posted By: GaGambler
and meeting various SB's, most of which will NOT respond to simply giving them a wad of cash.  
   
 In the sugar world, there is a bit of "seduction" necessary, but most of the hard work has been done, thus it's great segue into Civvie dating, it's sort of like dating with training wheels.  
   
 I don't know if you have spent anytime in the Sugar World, but sex is not guaranteed when a girl agrees to meet with you, with the exception of the "quasi hookers" over 90% of the first dates in a public setting and unlike the hooker world your success rate will to a certain extent depend on how much game you have. Believe it or not, there are SB's that won't fuck anyone, no matter how much you offer them, but they are in the minority of course. For a guy with little social skills, this will be a way to get women to actually meet with him, which he seems to be unable to do in the civvie world, but not all of them will fuck him, which will force him to develop at least some game.  
   
 In the civvie world he is batting .000. in the hooker world he is batting 1.000, in the Sugar World he will probably probably bat somewhere between .200-.300 which will increase as he gets better at it.  
   
 As usual the "fat man" doesn't have a clue as to what he is talking about.

GaGambler590 reads

The sugar world is not like the hooker world and if you approach a POT SB like you do a hooker you will spend a LOT of time striking out. OTOH, the Sugar World allows you to get a lot of "potential SB's" hence the reference to POT SB's, Many women will respond to you, but only a small percentage will actually fuck you if you treat them like a hooker.  

The reason I recommend the Sugar World is that unless you have a noticeable hump growing out of your back you will almost certainly get at least "some" dates. That is something you can't be guaranteed of with traditional dating sites. Now what happens once you get them one on one is up to you. The beauty of this for someone like you is that unlike hookers, you won't score with every single POT SB that meets you for lunch, dinner or coffee. You say your biggest problem is getting women to notice you enough to go out with you in the first place. Well Seeking Arrangement takes care of that issue. You WILL get dates, and some will fuck you while others will not. As you get better with SB's you can take those skills and apply them to civvie women. Just remember to be honest with yourself and learn from your failures and you WILL have failures. You will have women that you just knew for certain were going to fuck you, but don't and you are going to have women you think you have no chance with who will. Yes, this is like dating with training wheels, but it sounds like you could use those training wheels.

Is Seeking Arrangement the only place for this? Sounds interesting to say the least.

Posted By: GaGambler
The sugar world is not like the hooker world and if you approach a POT SB like you do a hooker you will spend a LOT of time striking out. OTOH, the Sugar World allows you to get a lot of "potential SB's" hence the reference to POT SB's, Many women will respond to you, but only a small percentage will actually fuck you if you treat them like a hooker.  
   
 The reason I recommend the Sugar World is that unless you have a noticeable hump growing out of your back you will almost certainly get at least "some" dates. That is something you can't be guaranteed of with traditional dating sites. Now what happens once you get them one on one is up to you. The beauty of this for someone like you is that unlike hookers, you won't score with every single POT SB that meets you for lunch, dinner or coffee. You say your biggest problem is getting women to notice you enough to go out with you in the first place. Well Seeking Arrangement takes care of that issue. You WILL get dates, and some will fuck you while others will not. As you get better with SB's you can take those skills and apply them to civvie women. Just remember to be honest with yourself and learn from your failures and you WILL have failures. You will have women that you just knew for certain were going to fuck you, but don't and you are going to have women you think you have no chance with who will. Yes, this is like dating with training wheels, but it sounds like you could use those training wheels.

cuppajoe583 reads

Something no one has mentioned is that you're going to have to decide how open you want to be about your extracurricular activities with your civvy date.  I think most of us in the hobby have basically created a lock box that's not open to any one, whether girlfriend, spouse, relative or friends.  That's just a part of you that no one is going to know, a secret you're taking to the grave. Once you've consciously made that mental arrangement, its one thing less to worry about on a date.  

Dr. Joe's advice on having no expectations is great.  Going out to dinner, expect to check out the restaurant, have a good meal and talk with another person.  Don't worry about the future, don't worry about getting laid, since you already got that covered.  

A lot of people meet others at work, its where I met my wife. Coffee, drink after work before going home are traditional social activities, often partaken in groups.  My office is in a little town outside of Philly.  I've gotten to know all the bank tellers, coffee shop girls, bartenders, post office clerks by just saying hi and striking up conversations.  Its not the depth of conversation, its the repeated exposure that get you known and makes yourself comfortable.  

You sound like a smart guy, and this is not rocket science.  Break it down into small steps, practice, give it time, don't pressure yourself and give yourself enough time for reflection.

 

Posted By: mrjoesmalls
I've tried some dating apps and sites but haven't had any luck with the them. No messages returned or matches. I've tried speed dating as well. Same story. I haven't tried a Pro match maker though. Any ideas of what they're like? Unfortunately, I don't really have hobbies that I'm passionate about. That's why I've taken classes to see if I could develop these interests. But nothing sticks there. I do work out at home to stay in shape with weights.  
   
 

I'm going to follow up on your:
"Unfortunately, I don't really have hobbies that I'm passionate about. That's why I've taken classes to see if I could develop these interests. But nothing sticks there. I do work out at home to stay in shape with weights. "

Starting with the last first, if you're working out at home start working out at a gym and with the intention of spending more time talking with others. It sounds like you're isolating your self.

While I agree and fully identify with your statement you really need to a way to get your self interest in life -- doing things. Have passion about things. That might require getting into the habit of having a passion for things. That might also mean having a willingness to do something bad or struggle a bit refusing to give into that difficulty. At the end of the day, if you're not interested in anything you're not going to be able to share any sense of passion about anything with someone and they are not going to have any interest -- before you can get someone else to love you (or be able to love them) you need to be able to love your self and have some passion about your own life

How does one develop passion? Sounds like such a rudimentary question, but clearly taking classes on anything that might potentially seem interesting just hasn't worked for me. And I agree, it is rather dull.

The reason I work out at home is due to time. It's about a 25 minute walk one way. It's easier to do it at home on my own time. It's a struggle as it is to workout already. When I've tried doing the gym, it's led to me stopping after a month or two :( I've been working out now since last June which is probably the longest amount of time ever for me.

Posted By: Jensen36363
I'm going to follow up on your:  
 "Unfortunately, I don't really have hobbies that I'm passionate about. That's why I've taken classes to see if I could develop these interests. But nothing sticks there. I do work out at home to stay in shape with weights. "  
   
 Starting with the last first, if you're working out at home start working out at a gym and with the intention of spending more time talking with others. It sounds like you're isolating your self.  
   
 While I agree and fully identify with your statement you really need to a way to get your self interest in life -- doing things. Have passion about things. That might require getting into the habit of having a passion for things. That might also mean having a willingness to do something bad or struggle a bit refusing to give into that difficulty. At the end of the day, if you're not interested in anything you're not going to be able to share any sense of passion about anything with someone and they are not going to have any interest -- before you can get someone else to love you (or be able to love them) you need to be able to love your self and have some passion about your own life.  
   
 

I would suggest that you stop seeing escorts, as doing so is complicating your problem. It would be easier to sort out your problems with dealing with civvie women if you're not complicating things by having male/female relationships that are fantasy.

I'm not your best friend, though; I only know what you've posted and can only comment on that.  It's also strange to suggest to a guy on a P4p forum that a guy not see escorts.

First of all, the issue might be something entirely different than the hobby. For example, after the high of seeing an atf, it's never emotionally crippling for me. Rather, I have a deep sense of euphoria for a week. And then I start planning my next session with her, so the anticipation takes over. If you have two atfs, it doubles (don't get too many). It's one endless series of highs. And trust me, even though it's p4p, it's real. When I'm at my tedious job, thinking about these lovely ladies gets me through the many rough patches.  

It’s hard to explain, but this is the greatest place in the world. The realness we have here, you cannot find anywhere else. Nevertheless, the reality is that it has one fallacy. The vast majority of the time, when you see great ladies, especially atfs, the time spent together is perfect. You’re both on your better than best behavior. That's why we all feel so comfortable. But that gives us a false sense of hope of what we wish the SO world would be like. That perfection just doesn’t happen out there. Out there we’re all on our best behavior only part of the time. I wish I could have this perfection all the time, but the SO world always degenerates into something else. When it does, we long for the easy atf life. It’s almost a Catch-22, but don’t let it drive you too crazy. Just go with what feels right. For me, I go with what feels perfect, and euphoric.

And, I bet if one of these "perfect" ladies actually was your SO, she wouldn't be "perfect" anymore. The reason we can have a perfect fantasy experience for an hour or two every so often is because we pay for it. No one is actually perfect, and if you live with someone you will eventually take them for granted (at least a little, and it's not an entirely bad thing to have someone you can rely on), you will discover their idiosyncrasies, and the novelty will wear off. At least for me anyway, partly why I need to do this is that I crave variety.  

Posted By: mojojo
First of all, the issue might be something entirely different than the hobby. For example, after the high of seeing an atf, it's never emotionally crippling for me. Rather, I have a deep sense of euphoria for a week. And then I start planning my next session with her, so the anticipation takes over. If you have two atfs, it doubles (don't get too many). It's one endless series of highs. And trust me, even though it's p4p, it's real. When I'm at my tedious job, thinking about these lovely ladies gets me through the many rough patches.  
   
 It’s hard to explain, but this is the greatest place in the world. The realness we have here, you cannot find anywhere else. Nevertheless, the reality is that it has one fallacy. The vast majority of the time, when you see great ladies, especially atfs, the time spent together is perfect. You’re both on your better than best behavior. That's why we all feel so comfortable. But that gives us a false sense of hope of what we wish the SO world would be like. That perfection just doesn’t happen out there. Out there we’re all on our best behavior only part of the time. I wish I could have this perfection all the time, but the SO world always degenerates into something else. When it does, we long for the easy atf life. It’s almost a Catch-22, but don’t let it drive you too crazy. Just go with what feels right. For me, I go with what feels perfect, and euphoric.

To some degree I can relate. I don't really have any favorites. Well there are some who I'd go call favorites but I just can't afford to see them with such frequency or over the years they are no longer available due to different circumstances. In those cases, yes, I just can't wait to see them again. But then it hits me that they only want to see me because I'm paying and I want something more than that as evidenced by this discussion. I also would not be able to continue this hobby if I were doing this regularly like that. Too expensive!

Posted By: mojojo
First of all, the issue might be something entirely different than the hobby. For example, after the high of seeing an atf, it's never emotionally crippling for me. Rather, I have a deep sense of euphoria for a week. And then I start planning my next session with her, so the anticipation takes over. If you have two atfs, it doubles (don't get too many). It's one endless series of highs. And trust me, even though it's p4p, it's real. When I'm at my tedious job, thinking about these lovely ladies gets me through the many rough patches.  
   
 It’s hard to explain, but this is the greatest place in the world. The realness we have here, you cannot find anywhere else. Nevertheless, the reality is that it has one fallacy. The vast majority of the time, when you see great ladies, especially atfs, the time spent together is perfect. You’re both on your better than best behavior. That's why we all feel so comfortable. But that gives us a false sense of hope of what we wish the SO world would be like. That perfection just doesn’t happen out there. Out there we’re all on our best behavior only part of the time. I wish I could have this perfection all the time, but the SO world always degenerates into something else. When it does, we long for the easy atf life. It’s almost a Catch-22, but don’t let it drive you too crazy. Just go with what feels right. For me, I go with what feels perfect, and euphoric.

ROGM627 reads

Posted By: mrjoesmalls
Let me just throw this out. I have never been in a relationship and only on one date. By my mid 20s, I decided perhaps it would help if I saw an escort to put me at ease with women. All my experiences have been with strippers/escorts. I just really wanted to feel loved and wanted (and reciprocate it). Unfortunately, seeing escorts does not do that although its easy to get lost and think it does sometimes.  
   
 If anything, it's probably made it worse since all my interactions up to this point have been in exchange for money. The absurdity of the situation is that I feel completely at ease and comfortable talking to a naked woman in bed who I've never met before, but struggle talking to them in non-monetary scenarios fully clothed. For me it seems to give me this high. I'm completely anxious before meeting, but then during the meeting things get better. And like any high, the drop from it is absolutely emotionally crippling hours later.  
   
 It's gotten worse over the years even though it's only been 5 years. I tried to stop for a bit, but that didn't last long. The only thought that runs through my head now is how I can make more money just so that I can see more escorts. Logically, I know this won't get me what I really want, but the alternative just seems like loneliness.  
   
 I've been told to just put myself out there and pick up hobbies and interests. I've tried taking classes to pick up interests and meet people, but nothing has come of it. I've been seeing a therapist for many years as well, but it hasn't really helped with this particular issue.  
   
 I can't imagine I'm the only one to have struggled with this in this hobby. How is it that hobbyists separate what happens with providers from reality? How do providers do this on their end when they see so many clients? I've read many times here from both sides that sometimes connections do form, but how do you know when it's genuine? And if it is genuine, why is there still an exchange of money?  
   
 Has anyone here managed to develop skills to better separate their emotions when partaking in this hobby?  
   
 Maybe I'm asking all the wrong questions here, but I'm just rather frustrated and lonely. Thanks for reading. Any advice welcomed.
Just like you I've always had bad luck dating the traditional way. When I found out that paying for sex was a way to meet girls I said why not. Seeing girls that pay to play is reality for me. It would be very difficult for me to try dating the traditional way like going to social clubs or group sporting events. Once you pay to play this is the only way you know to meet girls. Traditional dating is dead for me. Just my opinion.

FatVern420 reads

This is not the place for emotions.

If you want an emotional conection, adopt a puppy.

RockyBobby539 reads

I have been in the same situation as you.  When I was younger I was fine with civies but 10 years ago I was diagnosed with cancer and it set me back emotionally like I was in high school starting over.   When I came out the other end I was terrified to talk to women so I started seeing providers.  

I knew this can't last forever but Last year one provider said she didn't know why more men don't do yoga.  What man wouldn't like being in a room with beautiful women in yoga pants.  So I started yoga.  I even hired the same provider to give me private naked yoga instruction to get me started so I didn't feel like a newbie in the class, she was naked as well.  She is a yoga instructor.  Had a fun time with her.     I explained to her what my intention was and she completly supported me as a way to get back to normal with women.  

When I started in the class I did it daily for a month, it really helped to get my mind off seeing providers as frequently.   I'm  Not completely fixed but when I get the urge i go to a class.   A few weeks ago I got the courage to ask a lady from the yoga class out on a real date.  It went well and I went the entire time without seeing her naked, and we are going on another.   I can see light at the end of the tunnel.

Any ways, this seems to be helping me.  Hope it gives you ideas.

Obviously, you need more that a few words from untrained (tho probably well experienced) people here like me.
All I can say is that when I was free and dating I was not really hobbying so there were no internal mix ups. But I approached every attempt at a date with no expectations and no emotional investment with the outcome. I would ask anyone out and if she said "fuck off pig" I didn't take it personally.  I only needed one "yes" a week out of however many tries to end up with one date more than none.
The suggestion above to have activities in mind is a very good one.  (Nothing is worse on a first data than "I donno what d'you want to do.")
One other thing that may seem strange but I think could be very helpful: you could try to date a provider for her full fee but with the understanding there would be no sex. Pick her up, take her to dinner, enjoy the conversation and company and end perhaps with a cheek peck.  You could do this with one or two or three ladies and ask them later for tips. Also you could use the dates to get used to talking to women you find sexually attractive while exploring the other pleasures that can be had with attractive women. Focus on asking open ended not too personal questions and really listening to the answers. I have found providers to be generally intelligent and savvy women.
You have a personal not

it is with some trepidation that I offer mine, but your situation sound so similar to mine when I was your age, that I feel I must offer my own experience to you, given how well things turned out for me.

Like you, I had hardly had any dates, and started to see escorts just to try and feel like a normal person and have some kind of sexual release.  Eventually a friend who had seen a therapist and felt helped by them suggested that I also see this person, and that was the start of my journey upwards.  The therapist was a man with an unusual background.  A soldier stationed in Japan after Korea, he became interested in Zen Buddhism and eventually practiced full time under a well know master there and received permission to teach.   He returned to the US and practiced as an unlicensed therapist.  His method was to listen closely and give feedback.  He also suggested that I adopt some Zen practices especially sitting meditation which would become the core of my therapy.  Later on as he saw me make practice, he invited me to a weekly group session with about a half dozen other clients of his.

The process took about 5 years, so don't expect immediate miracles.  Over time I found that women started to come on to me, and I had confidence in how to handle them.  (One of my therapist's favorite aphorisms was "If you want women to stand in line for you, get out of the line you're standing in for them.")  

When I was about 30, I met one woman I clicked well with and we were married for 20 years, and raised two great kids.  Now I've married another gal whom I met in the hobby, and the journey continues.  I continue to do the sitting practice to this day.  It works.

Here's hoping for success for you

What's real is what you're doing in your life AFTER the session and the door closes behind you.

That's one aspect to keep in mind -- but in the end it's really about emotional discipline.

The other thing to think about is the concept of a professional or business relationship. Don't know if you're a regular are some restaurant/bar/cafe or perhaps other places. Or perhaps you have a lot of client interaction in your job. You'll form a type of friendship and relationship with these people but it's contextual for the most part. In some cases it might become something more than the initial context but for the most part if you cross that line you'll  start losing the business/professional side as well.

As for finding what you want; for me it's about knowing what it is that I want and need, finding those that want to share their life with me in those areas and understanding what they need in return and knowing if I can give that to them without it being something I feel is a burden. The big mistake is having a bunch of unstated expectations that are unreasonable to those involved -- you'll either never get out of the gate or end up wanting to kill one another. It about being honest with your self as much as with others and not worrying about what others think -- I'm guessing here but suspect you probably have a negative judgement about yourself and what you want and then assume everyone else is thinking the same about you. For the most part we all just think about ourselves and don't spend a lot of time judging what others want.


-- Modified on 1/10/2017 7:36:07 AM

The greatest skill in dating is "be yourself". Otherwise genuinity in regular dating is just as "fake" as seeing escorts - only the sex isn't guaranteed right away.

Really. Be yourself and you've got dating down to a T.

xoxo

Courtney

There are some people for whom the advice "Be yourself" would be ill advised.

But in general, I go for it.  After all, who else would you be?

Posted By: mrjoesmalls
Let me just throw this out. I have never been in a relationship and only on one date. By my mid 20s, I decided perhaps it would help if I saw an escort to put me at ease with women. All my experiences have been with strippers/escorts. I just really wanted to feel loved and wanted (and reciprocate it). Unfortunately, seeing escorts does not do that although its easy to get lost and think it does sometimes.  
   
 If anything, it's probably made it worse since all my interactions up to this point have been in exchange for money. The absurdity of the situation is that I feel completely at ease and comfortable talking to a naked woman in bed who I've never met before, but struggle talking to them in non-monetary scenarios fully clothed. For me it seems to give me this high. I'm completely anxious before meeting, but then during the meeting things get better. And like any high, the drop from it is absolutely emotionally crippling hours later.  
   
 It's gotten worse over the years even though it's only been 5 years. I tried to stop for a bit, but that didn't last long. The only thought that runs through my head now is how I can make more money just so that I can see more escorts. Logically, I know this won't get me what I really want, but the alternative just seems like loneliness.  
   
 I've been told to just put myself out there and pick up hobbies and interests. I've tried taking classes to pick up interests and meet people, but nothing has come of it. I've been seeing a therapist for many years as well, but it hasn't really helped with this particular issue.  
   
 I can't imagine I'm the only one to have struggled with this in this hobby. How is it that hobbyists separate what happens with providers from reality? How do providers do this on their end when they see so many clients? I've read many times here from both sides that sometimes connections do form, but how do you know when it's genuine? And if it is genuine, why is there still an exchange of money?  
   
 Has anyone here managed to develop skills to better separate their emotions when partaking in this hobby?  
   
 Maybe I'm asking all the wrong questions here, but I'm just rather frustrated and lonely. Thanks for reading. Any advice welcomed.
-- Modified on 1/10/2017 12:50:21 PM

I agree with others--if you are having problems with developing feelings for some of the escorts you see and you have no other meaningful female relationships in your personal life, you should probably try to stay away from the hobby for a while.  Although asking your escort ladies who know you for honest feedback on what you can do to make yourself more appealing is a good idea. i too am not really great with women. There are no real "easy" solutions--you will have to remain committed to putting yourself out there in uncomfortable social situations and trying to talk to people. I don't know if you have friends or a social life, but regularly talking to people and developing a rapport should help (even platonic guy friends).  I do think you should try to find things that interest you and become more knowledgeable about that, whether it's a skill or a subject. If you're an expert in something, anything really, that should give you some general confidence about yourself, give you something to talk about, make you more interesting, and another way to meet other people with a similar skill/passion. Meetup.com is a good place to meet all kinds of people with similar interests. I think you need to continue with the dating sites, there are tips to make that more successful, but you need practice just going on dates--don't worry if you're not attracted to her or she's not the one.  While it's good to be honest, most people probably do embellish themselves a bit, you need to work on selling yourself. If you're more comfortable talking online, that's fine too, as long as there is a route to meeting in person. I met my wife on yahoo messenger, then found out we didn't live too far away.  

As far as knowing if feelings for a provider are "real" you need to accept that this is a fantasy they are providing for you.  The good ones really are one in a million, and some of the most giving, nonjudgmental people I have known. But don't confuse their genuine good time with you with anything more than that. Not that a mutual relationship could not happen, but if she felt that way too, she would most likely make it more obvious to you, such as asking to see you off the clock.

Research the word "limerence". You might find some support in that community. Limerents usually have a single limerent object but it's not beyond the scope to suggest you experience it with every girl you have sex with.

I have an infatuation for one of the girls I see. I allow myself to see her once every two months. The sex is nice, but she's so awesome in other ways that I couldn't help but fall madly in love with her. If I felt the pain of separation anxiety with every girl I saw I'm not sure what I would do.  

One idea is to quit as mentioned or at least take an extended break. You might be surprised to find that after getting over the withdraw you don't feel as bad as you think you will. Make the decision to not return to the hobby until you're okay not returning to it. Forget about it for a while. If you do come back it could be with a different perspective.

I will throw this out as an alternative, if there are a couple providers you have a connection with, intentionally deprive yourself of the act and learn to be with them without fucking them. Cuddle them with clothes on. Talk to them and be their friend then walk away. If you can get used to that maybe take a step to sensual massage with clear boundaries. If you can get used to that you might put sex back on the table but maybe not with the same girls.  

If that sounds interesting you might save some money by looking outside the provider industry for cuddle buddies. It's a thing.

Whatever you do, I think after 5 years some kind of change is in order.

>>>>And if it is genuine, why is there still an exchange of money?  

Because they love you but they're not in love with you. I think you can understand that if you put your feelings aside. Anyway, I wish you the best.

Never heard of the word, but the results are interesting. How do you restrict yourself from seeing your favorite lady?

I read about cuddle buddies a month ago in some newspaper. Just seems way too tempting to go from cuddling to sex. Sounds like torture.

Posted By: HandsomeDevil
Research the word "limerence". You might find some support in that community. Limerents usually have a single limerent object but it's not beyond the scope to suggest you experience it with every girl you have sex with.  
   
 I have an infatuation for one of the girls I see. I allow myself to see her once every two months. The sex is nice, but she's so awesome in other ways that I couldn't help but fall madly in love with her. If I felt the pain of separation anxiety with every girl I saw I'm not sure what I would do.    
   
 One idea is to quit as mentioned or at least take an extended break. You might be surprised to find that after getting over the withdraw you don't feel as bad as you think you will. Make the decision to not return to the hobby until you're okay not returning to it. Forget about it for a while. If you do come back it could be with a different perspective.  
   
 I will throw this out as an alternative, if there are a couple providers you have a connection with, intentionally deprive yourself of the act and learn to be with them without fucking them. Cuddle them with clothes on. Talk to them and be their friend then walk away. If you can get used to that maybe take a step to sensual massage with clear boundaries. If you can get used to that you might put sex back on the table but maybe not with the same girls.  
   
 If that sounds interesting you might save some money by looking outside the provider industry for cuddle buddies. It's a thing.  
   
 Whatever you do, I think after 5 years some kind of change is in order.  
   
 >>>>And if it is genuine, why is there still an exchange of money?  
   
 Because they love you but they're not in love with you. I think you can understand that if you put your feelings aside. Anyway, I wish you the best.

Posted By: mrjoesmalls
Never heard of the word, but the results are interesting. How do you restrict yourself from seeing your favorite lady?  
I value my independence more than my desire to have my feelings reciprocated which is what I would be wanting if I saw her all the time. She loves me but she's not in love with me. If I was essentially asking her for more she wouldn't love me, at least not in the same way. I tell myself it would be better if I didn't have feelings for her because I would adore her either way. How much truth there is to that I can't say for sure because I am infatuated, but she is pretty great. If I notice a flower is beautiful I don't expect the flower to tell me I am too. Keeping my distance is part of that.

I think if you want a full fledged relationship with a women you should seek outword towards social events or hobbies you like. At times being with a provider can feel very comfortable being with us but I am not quite sure were looking for true feelings of a boyfriend but as a relationship to a client and building trust and a great relationship with someone. So with that being said, me myself I do care for the people I do spend my time with and enjoy it so much but to me this is what it is and is heloing me build a wonderful carrer and get me through my college. I think you may have to put your feelings aside if your wanting to be with some of the providers unless there looking for the same thing to not do this anymore. My suggestion is you stop and really try to find a nice women who appreciates you for you are and not for what you can offer her. Good luck to you honey. I am sure there is a Mrs. Right out there for you. Xo

VOO-doo651 reads

You're definitely not the only one to struggle with this... in the hobby, and in life. In fact, I've met a fair amount of escorts (myself included) who were actually in the same boat. Personally, I was one of those girls who didn't go to prom (I wasn't asked... I was socially awkward, and also went through a heavy-set, surly, buzzcut'ed period of life just after puberty), and I became sexually active very late... I always considered that humiliating, and thought that I was abnormal, and unlovable, etc, etc. But now, I see that it's kind of normal. I had to become comfortable with myself. I also had to stop wanting a relationship just for the sake of having a relationship... and start getting to know people because I liked them, and liked spending time with them. Not because it might 'go someplace.'  

I know how irritating it can seem when people just say, 'Relax, already! Just be yourself!"

All I can tell you is that it WILL get easier, so long as you have a positive attitude, and keep making the effort :) In addition to the other advice, I'd advise getting to know all sorts of people - not just girls. Sometimes, the best interactions just happen when you're not looking for anything other than a random conversation with the person sitting next to you. But, that's how you meet girls, too. And the more you get used to having sincere, enjoyable interactions... the more you become used to the fact that people like you, for you... and, the more likely you are to feel open and comfortable with all types of relationships, including romantic ones.  

I really like GaGambler's advice about finding a SB. Make sure she'll hang out with you in social environments. Just view it as a FWB thing, and don't feel like she needs to be THE ONE just because she gives you that feeling. Enjoy it for what it is.

There are A LOT of girls out there, and they WILL find you once they sense that you're happy, comfortable, and secure. And to me, you actually do sound pretty cool :)

GaGambler669 reads

My mind was made up for me after seeing so much bad advice that he received and like you, I think he's probably an all right guy, maybe just a "late bloomer" where it comes to women.

One other thing he might also consider, especially if I am doing my math correctly which would make him barely thirty. One of the things that young horny guys go through when they are on a date and haven't been laid for a while is that they start reeking of "DESPERATION" which is the most unsexy smell in the world, well the worst right after not washing your ass. lol Getting laid on a regular basis is the best cure for that syndrome, but lets put a band aid on the problem first. Seeing a provider earlier on the same day as you see a civvie date will take care of a lot of that desperation, and at thirty it's highly unlikely that he will be able to perform if he does get "lucky" on his civvie date.

Of course that doesn't address the issue of "getting" said civvie date in the first place, but one problem at a time, right? and of course that's where my earlier advice kicks in. The Seeking Arrangement site is not like TER where virtually EVERY woman is going to see you, but his batting average is going to be a LOT higher than on a dating site. This way he can get a mix of rejection and success and learn how to handle each in stride. and there still isn't anything wrong with seeing  a hooker before a date with an SB. I do it all the time, but for very different reasons, I do it not because I am nervous, but because I am a pig. oink oink. lol

ReadyCurious338 reads

If you are finding life to get crippling and the hobby is in the way of you living a life that is worth living, check out a 12 step program like: https://slaafws.org/ - the solutions there do offer a way out.

Sex addiction can really be a bummer - and you are missing out on real intimacy you could have in your life.

It's a slippery slope from having a fun night of escape to 'needing' to feel OK.

At the risk of asking a silly question since you're still on the site, have you gone through it yourself? Has it helped? I'm going to look into this. I was recently told I need to see a sex therapist by a doctor because what I have is an addiction. Sounds rather weird to me because biologically we're here to reproduce, but I guess the way it's been happening has been rather destructive. And something has to give in order to get better.

Posted By: ReadyCurious
If you are finding life to get crippling and the hobby is in the way of you living a life that is worth living, check out a 12 step program like: https://slaafws.org/ - the solutions there do offer a way out.  
   
 Sex addiction can really be a bummer - and you are missing out on real intimacy you could have in your life.  
   
 It's a slippery slope from having a fun night of escape to 'needing' to feel OK.

GaGambler451 reads

We all feel like we "need" to get laid. As you said, we are hard wired to reproduce and it's one of the strongest urges we feel and that urge is perfectly natural and healthy.  

What you have is a perfectly normal desire to get laid, but none of the skills to do so without hiring hookers. It is true that there is a huge difference between enjoying the company of hookers and "needing" them. What you need is help with your social skills and to deal with your hang ups about the opposite sex, not some limp dick shrink who is going to tell you that you need "intimacy" and not sex and who is likely to tell you that depriving yourself of sex is the answer. Fuck Tha

what I think "user post is ignored" is probably trying to say is ...

you gotta be kidding dude. you don't need a sex therapist... you need a SHRINK! The poor dude is busting a gut trying to help you but must have picked the wrong time to get timeout. You need all the help you can get.

I'm sorry if I'm being cruel, but frankly, you find every suggestion an insurmountable challenge to digest before you say you can't. stop answering and re-read everything everyone (but you) wrote. Just so you know, a therapist isn't gonna give you the game plan for life in the first visit. No, they're gonna help YOU figure out for yourself how awkward things are for you.  

Either that or you're just stringing everyone along with your sob story. ... end of another's possible reply.  

My advice, only approach the most beautiful women at any venue or event you attend. Most guys are intimidated by them because they feel like "why me" ... and for that reason alone, many appreciate a guy willing to just talk to them. Also approach women with wedding bands on. Less threatening because they're taken ... but lookout, the I met hottest babe I've ever been at a club. She wore one and wasn't married. She did it to ward off those she wasn't interested in. Call me lucky. She liked me and gave me her number before she left ... on the back of my boss' business card. He forced it on her. I never pressured her and got the biggest rush when I saw that. Sidebar ... the next day my jerk boss was bragging about how he gave her his card and that she'd probably call him that night. I JUST HAD TO.  
 I pulled his card from my pocket with her phone number on the back and asked him in front of everyone at our morning meeting . . "do you mean this card" ... let's just say that he wasn't real happy with me at that moment... so I made him take me out to dinner that night instead of her.  

LESSON ... some women LIKE the less aggressive quiet type ... in public. Like my friend ... but she wanted a tiger in bed   .. grrrr?

Register Now!