Are are asking providers or hobbiest? Are you talking about income, or net worth?
In some cultures, I'd be worth three donkeys and a lamb...This is something I wrote and posted on another site; curious to know how you guys will respond to it...
"The money was never my first priority. Experience was my first priority, insight and freedom followed. When I first started as a sex-worker, I started at the Love Ranch Las Vegas and was working legally for the most socially accepted pimp in our Nation, Dennis Hof. My first booking was for $700 and lasted one hour. I was elated, convinced that my location and association had served me well. Having no prior experience in the industry, I believed everyone (and there were many) who claimed the brothel was the only avenue to money like that.
My peers who had worked on their own or with “managers” would tell stories of how other girls listed on advertising outlets were bringing the industry standard down. Literally every girl told of how much money she used to make, and claimed that the industry was just dropping off; that it just wasn’t as lucrative anymore. It was discouraging, sometimes, to hear those stories…
During our weekly meetings, Dennis would often use Cami Parker and Barbie as examples of how girls who had left the supposed safety of his ranch, were left with no other option than to accept much less than when they were associated with his name and "world famous" BunnyRanch. He degraded girls who worked without him and always implied a tragic end for them, as if without him and Nevada’s prostitution law, she would be too naïve to protect her sexual health and that she would fall victim to some pimp who would inevitably beat the shit out of her and take even more than the ranch's standard 50% plus $25-$50 daily room & board.
Not all that long ago, I had an unfortunate meeting with an old client I had met thru my tenure at the Love Ranch. This was a gentleman with whom I’d spent an extended amount of time, back in Nevada, and he'd been a perfect gentleman. We negotiated our time together, as was customary at the ranch, and he put $5000 into our date. Two years later he made contact with me, by fate – it seemed, after asking a couple of my friends from the ranch for my phone number. We got together and I told him my new rates, which were far more accommodating than when we had previously met, and he tried to negotiate. I was so offended by his mindset that I left and he was left without the option of making me question my worth or myself.
What I've learned for myself is that you get what you expect and/or require from life and from the people you allow in your life. I'm not saying to sit stagnant and wait for everything to fall perfectly into place for you, because it probably won’t work that way… but if you work for what you want and don't take less than you've determined your time or effort is worth, then you'll get it. Only because you expect it and won't settle for less. I'm sure this carries over - whether it’s money or respect or honesty, but only if you demand it without hesitation and without doubt that it’s what you deserve.
It doesn’t matter where you are in life or whom you are with. You are worth what you believe you are worth. And no matter where you are in life, there will always be someone to test you… To see if you’re willing to do more for them than they’re prepared to do for you, to see if you care for them more than they care for you, to see if you’ll go further for them than they would go for you. Don’t let those tests bring you down. Don’t let them make you doubt yourself. And definitely don’t ever let them make you feel like you have to do what everyone else seems to be doing.
I know that not everyone will take this the right way, but just to be clear, its meant to be supportive & encouraging... I hope you see it that way. Xxo"
Are are asking providers or hobbiest? Are you talking about income, or net worth?
In some cultures, I'd be worth three donkeys and a lamb...
overstating your worth. But seriously, I believe the OP's post was rhetorical.
it was customary to negotiate. That was the usual practice between you and him. When you saw him again, why would you get mad when he wants to negotiate? That's what he was used to doing. It doesn't matter if the posted rates were lower, because he knows you're not splitting it with the house anymore. It wasn't a question of him disrespecting you, it was him doing business as usual in the way you did before. I'm baffled why you would take offense at him treating you like he did at the ranch. It makes you look completely unreasonable. Just reading this would put me off of wanting to see you professionally. Just my opinion, Others may disagree.
As you can see, your "uplifting" message at the end is completely lost on me because I can't get past how shabby you treated this guy.
-- Modified on 10/10/2016 9:21:05 PM
...but too often a provider trying to determine her value is like someone trying to sell their home. They have too much sentimentality tied into the house and value it too far above market value, leaving it to languish on the market until eventually they realize that they have to drop their price (& possibly haggle) if they ever want to sell the house. If it were priced properly from the beginning they would have gotten a fair price and not had to deal with the inflated price fall out.
sharing such an insightful post. No person, no matter their profession, should give anyone 50% of what they earn, when the entire business depends upon that person's services.
Being a provider is similar to many other service oriented businesses and is subject to the most basic law of supply and demand. If we provide a service or product, we must know our market. For that market alone will determine how much our services are truly worth. Our ability to accurately price our services/goods will be evidenced by whether or not we are generating the amount of business we need to remain profitable/independent. If we charge more than the market allows, we may go through long dry spells before self-reflecting and trying to decide whether or not our business model needs to be adjusted.
It is during these dry spells when a provider's resolve is challenged the most. During these times, it can be difficult to remain objective and accurately plot the right course of action. Having confidence in oneself, as you so articulately pointed out, and having a high degree of endurance, can be the key to accomplishing the most positive outcome.
Thank you again, for your insightful post.
in this world is not being able to see other people's side of an issue and find compromise. Giving a little is not devaluing yourself. On the other hand, I wasn't there, so who am I to judge whether his negotiations were honorable or not.
Thanks for the food for thought, and the insights to the mindset at the Ranch.
I would suggest you also question if your "worth" is not defined entirely by how many dollars you get. From your profile and P411 pics you seem a tremendously desirable provider, but I'm sure there is much more about you than what you bring to your profession. But within the context of what you are focusing on here, I think that you have arrived at a very valuable insight that many can value from. Thank you for sharing it.
a lot of people aren't ready to accept that this industry.. The "products" the "services" ... Everything thats experienced through this unique lifestyle is in fact very different from any other consumer/provider dynamic. When something isn't clear, we tend to make sense of it by comparing it to something familiar. In a normal consumer/provider interaction, haggling (while crass) isn't necessarily unheard of.
We haven't figured out a universal etiquette that satisfies a hobbiests right as a consumer to question his "purchase" while still maintaining the integrity of the provider and his/her goods.
many hobbiest and providers seem to have developed a mutual understanding of how to interact with one another..for example polite emails and small gift giving (flowers, perfume) ... however, there is still a lot of consumers who relate this transaction as nothing more than buying a power tool from home depot or even writing a review on yelp.
Reviews complaining of loose pussys and saggy tits... or haggling prices during a booking request... even some of the board posts here. Many forget that we're people and the product is us.
Haggling doesn't bother me as much as it used to... Never equate your donation with who you are as a human being. You're priceless. The donation is merely a thank you and a gift. The donation is more of a reflection of a provider's cost of living rather than her flesh. I'm not too expensive..and it doesn't bother me because it matches my lifestyle. If for some reason, something changed in my life that required me to make more money then I'd raise my rate...
Don't think too much about what to expect out of life and others when it comes to donation.
When it comes to the gift, ask yourself ... WHAT ARE THEY BUYING?
What are you as a person worth? should never be a question that you ask yourself. What are your services worth? is a completely different question.
A pimps job is to get in your head, and make you believe that without him you ain't sh*t. 50% plus $25-$50 daily room it's insane.
You say that you negotiated your TIME together with this client, so why do you find it soo offensive that he is trying to negotiate yet again?
I understand your feelings about haggling. Most providers explicitly say that they don't do it. As soon as the client discusses price, conversation is over.
But these are prices in a marketplace. You are competing with other providers. Let's face it. Some are better than others.
If you charge too much, you will lose business. Providers find their niche and then are competing with others in the same price range. Clients will compare experiences and share them in reviews.
I can see how it is hard not to connect price to self worth. Same in the business world, guy can be making great money one year and laid off the next. Hard to deal with. But it's the same guy
In the civilian world, providers are major consumers.. Gym memberships, laser treatments, beauty products, lingerie, outcall apparel, transportation services from cabs to Amtrak to airports, frequent medical visits for STI screening, incall rent, personal home rent, hotels... You name it, we've consumed those services. Not to mention, career providers are essentially entrepreneurs... We advertise, promote, serve, maintain, budget... We run our own business!
Maybe some of us aren't college degree business certified..that's ok. Because we've learned first hand what it's like to be served and what it's like to serve.
The issue is.. Our business isn't regulated in anyway.. The guy u mentioned who might get laid off... Did He get laid off because he was too old? Too fat? Was his dick too small? In the civilian world you could sue for something like that! Why? Because it's unethical. I love the idea of reviews in the sense that John's who are spending hard earned money aren't going to get ripped off... Meaning, is the girl the same in the pics? Did she give good service? Would u repeat? Everything else is ridiculous.
So No. This industry is not like other ones. It requires more finesse and consideration.
Only market can estimate your worth. What you think you worth is a total nonsense. Your thinking is subjective, while the market forces are always real. Take a pill.
That was the most sensible thing you have EVER said. I am impressed.
I still think you are BSC though, but maybe not as stupid as I once thought.
An escort friend of mine went off to Nevada some years ago to find her fame and fortune, but returned just a few weeks later with tales of woe that made the hair on the back of my neck stand on end.
I've warned other gals who had an interest in going to Nevada about it.
I guess it just means that one has to pick and choose carefully, but such is life
Well, put my dear!!! I have been doing this for 21 to 22 years. And from the start I have always been straight forward and honest with the clients. When they ask me if I did a certain sexual act & I did not do it. I would say "The only thing(s) that I do is....." And I would list them what I do and say "If you are seeking more then that then please feel free to keep moving." And Yes most of them keep walking.
As I said before I have been working as an "Escort/Provider" since I was eighteen & half to nineteen years old and I know what things I can do to a "Hobbyist/Client" to make him feel great and cum back again. I have had the "Pepsi Guy" for the last one & a half to three year cum back to me.
This "Pepsi Guy" I have spoken about before and we straightened everything out. And came to an understanding of what we had. He told me that he stuck with me because he felt the hot passion that I gave him. And that is why he keeps coming back.
We assign value to everything (including love.) Value is subjective.
Every guy that didn't contact you has already negotiated in his head and found the value exchange not suitable.
So all transactions are fully negotiated. Just that some are silently so.
Lost time is lost income in the service field. Each hour not in service represents 100% lost of that hour. That's why discounts to fill the time are better than nothing (assuming you cover incidental expenses of performing the service, such as hotel rental.
If I were waiting tables, I would agree with you; because I would be stuck in a restaurant for my entire shift.. Though, as an independent companion; if I don't have an appointment, I invest that time in studying or improving myself as a person.
I'm not looking for "better than nothing". And the goal of this post was really about that, not rates.
I want what's RIGHT for me, and I think everyone else has a right to find what's right for them. That may be about your job, your relationship, your family dynamic... ANYTHING. Not just about my rates and you guys trying to teach us the laws of supply and demand. lol
but please spare me the crap about the indignity of negotiating that virtually every hooker tries to convince us of. If you don't want to negotiate, that's your right. A LOT of professional refuse to negotiate, but they don't get on the internet and whine about their clients or potential clients that try.
I have to negotiate all the time, and sometimes the offers are downright insulting, and when I say insulting, I mean being offered thousands or even hundreds of thousands less than my actual hard costs to do a job. I don't take it personal. I get briefly annoyed and then get on with my day, as should you somewhat "whiny" hookers who are so offended by someone trying to negotiate a multi thousand dollar appointment with you.
Take the offer or don't either way it's no skin off my nose, but I am sick and tired of women who make the same hourly rate as doctors or lawyers constantly whining about "what they are worth" There are women doing the exact same work as you for a tenth of the price, and there are women charging literally thousands per hour, who is to say what a piece of ass is worth?
What I will say is that hookers whining about their clients, or potential clients is a GIANT turn off to me. This is a public board and just like you are free to charge what you want, you are equally free to post what you want, but I am positive that I am not alone in finding this topic a huge turn off and whiny hookers go immediately on my "must miss" list.
"The money was never my first priority. Experience was my first priority, insight and freedom followed. When I first started as a sex-worker, I started at the Love Ranch Las Vegas and was working legally for the most socially accepted pimp in our Nation, Dennis Hof. My first booking was for $700 and lasted one hour. I was elated, convinced that my location and association had served me well. Having no prior experience in the industry, I believed everyone (and there were many) who claimed the brothel was the only avenue to money like that.
My peers who had worked on their own or with “managers” would tell stories of how other girls listed on advertising outlets were bringing the industry standard down. Literally every girl told of how much money she used to make, and claimed that the industry was just dropping off; that it just wasn’t as lucrative anymore. It was discouraging, sometimes, to hear those stories…
During our weekly meetings, Dennis would often use Cami Parker and Barbie as examples of how girls who had left the supposed safety of his ranch, were left with no other option than to accept much less than when they were associated with his name and "world famous" BunnyRanch. He degraded girls who worked without him and always implied a tragic end for them, as if without him and Nevada’s prostitution law, she would be too naïve to protect her sexual health and that she would fall victim to some pimp who would inevitably beat the shit out of her and take even more than the ranch's standard 50% plus $25-$50 daily room & board.
Not all that long ago, I had an unfortunate meeting with an old client I had met thru my tenure at the Love Ranch. This was a gentleman with whom I’d spent an extended amount of time, back in Nevada, and he'd been a perfect gentleman. We negotiated our time together, as was customary at the ranch, and he put $5000 into our date. Two years later he made contact with me, by fate – it seemed, after asking a couple of my friends from the ranch for my phone number. We got together and I told him my new rates, which were far more accommodating than when we had previously met, and he tried to negotiate. I was so offended by his mindset that I left and he was left without the option of making me question my worth or myself.
What I've learned for myself is that you get what you expect and/or require from life and from the people you allow in your life. I'm not saying to sit stagnant and wait for everything to fall perfectly into place for you, because it probably won’t work that way… but if you work for what you want and don't take less than you've determined your time or effort is worth, then you'll get it. Only because you expect it and won't settle for less. I'm sure this carries over - whether it’s money or respect or honesty, but only if you demand it without hesitation and without doubt that it’s what you deserve.
It doesn’t matter where you are in life or whom you are with. You are worth what you believe you are worth. And no matter where you are in life, there will always be someone to test you… To see if you’re willing to do more for them than they’re prepared to do for you, to see if you care for them more than they care for you, to see if you’ll go further for them than they would go for you. Don’t let those tests bring you down. Don’t let them make you doubt yourself. And definitely don’t ever let them make you feel like you have to do what everyone else seems to be doing.
I know that not everyone will take this the right way, but just to be clear, its meant to be supportive & encouraging... I hope you see it that way. Xxo"