for the massage and emotional therapy you provided.
- Been seeing my ATF 0ne to two times a month for nearly three years. I've only seen her and nobody else for the last two years.
- we set up a two hour session late Monday night - she was headed out of town for 10 days the following evening and I wanted to see her before she left.
- we communicated earlier in the day and we were both looking forward to it.
- when she arrived I could tell something was wrong, she wasn't her normal self. She said she had just come from another session (first time with the guy) and it didn't go well. She said he had made some degrading comments about what her childhood must have been and she said no that wasn't the case but that when they were having sex he started making the comments again over and over. I asked her why she didn't just get up and leave and she said because she didn't know how he would react and it was an outcall to his private residence and she was afraid how he might react. She also said she had met him online and was afraid he would give her a bad review. I told her he was a fool and he would never get to know what a wonderful person she was.
- she said she needed a little time to get over it so we had something to eat (some fruit I had gotten for her from our earlier conversation that morning). After that she asked if we could just lay down for a little bit. I was fine with that and we just lay together with me holding her. After about an hour she asked if I could massage her back and feet which I did. We then continued to lay together occasionally talking but mostly she just lay with her eyes closed and me holding her, much of the time she actually feel asleep for periods of time.
- After nearly four hours she told me she wasn't going to be able to get in the mood and asked if I just wanted a hand job. I told her no because it wouldn't have been right given how she was feeling and I could tell she really didn't want to. Shortly after that she said she should just go home. I said I understood and we could rescheduled when she got back from her trip.
- As I began to walk her out to her car she turns to me and asks were her money is. Needless to say I'm a little taken aback by this given how the evening went and I tell her that's night right that I shouldn't have to pay because some other asshole made her feel this way and ruined our evening. She got more upset and left.
- a few minutes after leaving she called me and said for me not to contact her again because of the way I made her feel. Then 10 minutes later she called again saying I've told her over and over how much I cared about her (which I have because I do) but it was obviously just about the sex for me and "getting my nut". I responded that it was apparently only about the money for her, that she should look at it from my perspective, that I was perfectly fine not having sex that night given the circumstances but I shouldn't have to pay. We talked for a little longer but she still maintained that I should have paid her and ended the call by telling me to have a good life.
- other background - while we have spent some OTC time together over the last three years it has only been occasionally and never initiated by me. I've always paid without question (in fact I figured that I have paid her nearly $40k over the course of our time together and I'm not a wealthy man just comfortable). I just didn't feel she should have asked to be paid in this circumstance and in fact in made me feel that I was nothing more to her than an easy source of cash.
- with all that said I am going to miss her terribly and would probably try to repair the relationship if she would call me and ask to (although that is unlikely given that she is very stubborn).
Sorry about the length I just needed to get that off my chest. Was I wrong in some way ( I don't think so)? Should I have done something different?
As an aside I really wish I knew who that other hobbyist was because I would like to find him and beat the shit out of him for ruining a really good thing for me.
This is partially a vent and partially looking for feedback if others would have handled differently or if I'm missing something. I'll try to give the readers digest version:
- Been seeing my ATF 0ne to two times a month for nearly three years. I've only seen her and nobody else for the last two years.
- we set up a two hour session late Monday night - she was headed out of town for 10 days the following evening and I wanted to see her before she left.
- we communicated earlier in the day and we were both looking forward to it.
- when she arrived I could tell something was wrong, she wasn't her normal self. She said she had just come from another session (first time with the guy) and it didn't go well. She said he had made some degrading comments about what her childhood must have been and she said no that wasn't the case but that when they were having sex he started making the comments again over and over. I asked her why she didn't just get up and leave and she said because she didn't know how he would react and it was an outcall to his private residence and she was afraid how he might react. She also said she had met him online and was afraid he would give her a bad review. I told her he was a fool and he would never get to know what a wonderful person she was.
- she said she needed a little time to get over it so we had something to eat (some fruit I had gotten for her from our earlier conversation that morning). After that she asked if we could just lay down for a little bit. I was fine with that and we just lay together with me holding her. After about an hour she asked if I could massage her back and feet which I did. We then continued to lay together occasionally talking but mostly she just lay with her eyes closed and me holding her, much of the time she actually feel asleep for periods of time.
- After nearly four hours she told me she wasn't going to be able to get in the mood and asked if I just wanted a hand job. I told her no because it wouldn't have been right given how she was feeling and I could tell she really didn't want to. Shortly after that she said she should just go home. I said I understood and we could rescheduled when she got back from her trip.
- As I began to walk her out to her car she turns to me and asks were her money is. Needless to say I'm a little taken aback by this given how the evening went and I tell her that's night right that I shouldn't have to pay because some other asshole made her feel this way and ruined our evening. She got more upset and left.
- a few minutes after leaving she called me and said for me not to contact her again because of the way I made her feel. Then 10 minutes later she called again saying I've told her over and over how much I cared about her (which I have because I do) but it was obviously just about the sex for me and "getting my nut". I responded that it was apparently only about the money for her, that she should look at it from my perspective, that I was perfectly fine not having sex that night given the circumstances but I shouldn't have to pay. We talked for a little longer but she still maintained that I should have paid her and ended the call by telling me to have a good life.
- other background - while we have spent some OTC time together over the last three years it has only been occasionally and never initiated by me. I've always paid without question (in fact I figured that I have paid her nearly $40k over the course of our time together and I'm not a wealthy man just comfortable). I just didn't feel she should have asked to be paid in this circumstance and in fact in made me feel that I was nothing more to her than an easy source of cash.
- with all that said I am going to miss her terribly and would probably try to repair the relationship if she would call me and ask to (although that is unlikely given that she is very stubborn).
Sorry about the length I just needed to get that off my chest. Was I wrong in some way ( I don't think so)? Should I have done something different?
As an aside I really wish I knew who that other hobbyist was because I would like to find him and beat the shit out of him for ruining a really good thing for me
and sent her home after a little reassurance and some kind words.
It seems like you tried to do the right thing ... but this is p4p. In the future, you might want to clear the money thing up front, since you assumed just being a nice guy was enough.
Perhaps you could have offered a lesser rate due to circumstances?
In situations like this, I'm guessing she wasn't trying to take advantage of you but honestly don't think she should get her "normal fee" for 4+ hours. When money comes up, expect the worst if you say no. I'm not saying you shouldn't say no, but there are usually repercussions when money is discussed or disagreed on AFTER the date. Regardless of the outcum
Sorry this happened to you. You can always reach out to her and see if you can reconcile the issue, but if she didn't pick up, I'd politely let her know the ball is in her court but you won't be calling her again unless she ask you to do so because you don't want her to feel like you're harassing her.
-- Modified on 8/26/2016 1:25:31 PM
you flipped from caring about her to yourself in that one sentence.
He did nothing to you. You did. Now if you want to kick his ass for hurting a friend ... I might even hold his arms for you. Lol
Turns out Expected, your lady-friend was on a different page than you were. She only wanted your money and let you think for two years that it was more than money.
Actually, she shoulda paid you for your massage and coouseling. She has "balls" so to speak for expecting to get paid for her sleeping etc.
Relationships between providers and clients Can be tough when you have known each other for a long time and care about each other and I experience this as well sometimes it can be hard to know where that line is. I see a couple mistakes on both sides though... For instance if I was her I would have either said sorry but I can't go through with this appointment immediately or toughed it out and did what I have to do. I've had days that clients have rubbed me the wrong way and reminded me of certain things that I don't want to think about and was not in a good mind state to work yet I kept my promise and still went through with my appointment..... but honestly it's really hard to say what you both could have done differently... It's a shame that you all ended up spending that many hours together and it sounds like she trusts you and knows that you care about her so she was comfortable with spending time and letting you know that she just couldn't go through with it.
As much as I want to say that you should have paid because after all I am a provider and it is our time in all honestly it's kind of hard to justify that because she was not able to make the decision whether she was going to be able to go through with the appointment or not and quite frankly needed your emotional support and she did get something out of that. I think reasonably I might have maybe paid her for a half an hour appointment just because you all did spend time together and because she was emotional it was just going to add fuel to the fire to also not be getting paid... but because you didn't even do anything I can't see paying for hours and hours.....
Normally I would always say that we should get paid no matter what happens in the appointment because we are charging for time but in the case of two people that have been knowing each other for years and have formed a relationship and one person was giving the other person emotional support and there was no other activity is going on I feel like there are certain exceptions and it is a fine and tricky line... Just some thoughts I know I didn't really answer anything here LOL
- Been seeing my ATF 0ne to two times a month for nearly three years. I've only seen her and nobody else for the last two years.
- we set up a two hour session late Monday night - she was headed out of town for 10 days the following evening and I wanted to see her before she left.
- we communicated earlier in the day and we were both looking forward to it.
- when she arrived I could tell something was wrong, she wasn't her normal self. She said she had just come from another session (first time with the guy) and it didn't go well. She said he had made some degrading comments about what her childhood must have been and she said no that wasn't the case but that when they were having sex he started making the comments again over and over. I asked her why she didn't just get up and leave and she said because she didn't know how he would react and it was an outcall to his private residence and she was afraid how he might react. She also said she had met him online and was afraid he would give her a bad review. I told her he was a fool and he would never get to know what a wonderful person she was.
- she said she needed a little time to get over it so we had something to eat (some fruit I had gotten for her from our earlier conversation that morning). After that she asked if we could just lay down for a little bit. I was fine with that and we just lay together with me holding her. After about an hour she asked if I could massage her back and feet which I did. We then continued to lay together occasionally talking but mostly she just lay with her eyes closed and me holding her, much of the time she actually feel asleep for periods of time.
- After nearly four hours she told me she wasn't going to be able to get in the mood and asked if I just wanted a hand job. I told her no because it wouldn't have been right given how she was feeling and I could tell she really didn't want to. Shortly after that she said she should just go home. I said I understood and we could rescheduled when she got back from her trip.
- As I began to walk her out to her car she turns to me and asks were her money is. Needless to say I'm a little taken aback by this given how the evening went and I tell her that's night right that I shouldn't have to pay because some other asshole made her feel this way and ruined our evening. She got more upset and left.
- a few minutes after leaving she called me and said for me not to contact her again because of the way I made her feel. Then 10 minutes later she called again saying I've told her over and over how much I cared about her (which I have because I do) but it was obviously just about the sex for me and "getting my nut". I responded that it was apparently only about the money for her, that she should look at it from my perspective, that I was perfectly fine not having sex that night given the circumstances but I shouldn't have to pay. We talked for a little longer but she still maintained that I should have paid her and ended the call by telling me to have a good life.
- other background - while we have spent some OTC time together over the last three years it has only been occasionally and never initiated by me. I've always paid without question (in fact I figured that I have paid her nearly $40k over the course of our time together and I'm not a wealthy man just comfortable). I just didn't feel she should have asked to be paid in this circumstance and in fact in made me feel that I was nothing more to her than an easy source of cash.
- with all that said I am going to miss her terribly and would probably try to repair the relationship if she would call me and ask to (although that is unlikely given that she is very stubborn).
Sorry about the length I just needed to get that off my chest. Was I wrong in some way ( I don't think so)? Should I have done something different?
As an aside I really wish I knew who that other hobbyist was because I would like to find him and beat the shit out of him for ruining a really good thing for me.
Very insightful post! Bravo. Agree completely. Clearly there is a line between what we consider "business" and what sometimes turns out to be some form of common ground, depending upon the two parties involved. Clearly the service exchanged here can be of an intimate nature, so that brings with it a dynamic of its own. Having said that, depending upon the two people involved, that common ground can turn into, mutual attraction, some degree of friendship, an exchange of affection, or.........
IMHO whenever a provider and hobbyist come near that line, just like in any business or personal relationship, communications can make a big difference.
As stated by many replies to the OP a degree of self-centeredness by both the hobbyist and provider is evident. She expected to get paid for being consoled. He was more concerned about the other hobbyist "ruining things for him" than the provider's feelings/state of mind.
As fancy would say; "crossing line by provider/hobbyist, making money, complications."
-- Modified on 8/26/2016 12:39:35 PM
I've become friends with a couple of regular clients over the years and it does throw up all kinds of dilemmas that don't appear out in the 'real' world. Personally in this situation I would have put my feelings about a previous client to one side and focused on this booking to the best of my ability, or if I felt completely terrible I would have pulled out and asked to reschedule.
I certainly can't see a situation where I'd expect consolation and comforting from a client for a few hours and then turn around and demand my fee from him. As someone said above, the bottom line is that this is business - it's P4P and a lot of people on both sides seem to forget that when it suits them to do so.
I'm not sure you can repair this now, as both people seem hurt and have lost trust and respect for the other because of this evening. You may have to accept that this 'relationship' may never be the same now.
1, you could have offered her half or 1/4 or a fraction of her usual rate. tbh you actually did spend time with her and providers charge for their time. it's kind of your fault for letting it go on as far as it did w/o establish parameters.
and 2, you let yourself get too attatched to a provider. in this endeavor it's best if you are willing to never see a girl again, because that's always possible. anything more will only lead to trouble as you are just finding out.
Xpcted, it sounds like she was upset and needed someone to hold her and offer some emotional support and you tried to do what you thought was right and be there for her in that way. Maybe she realized all that, didn't like the idea of crossing that line with a client, and "sabotaged" it? Just a wild speculation on my part. Whether she knows it or not you probably helped her and she is better of than if she had gone home alone after she left the jerk ass.
Maybe in her head care and concern are too closely linked to cash and she cant believe that anyone who doesn't give her money really cares about her.
Maybe she just really needed some fucking money.
Whatever. As was said, contact her one time and tell her you're willing to move past it and continue the relationship (if you are) but don't harass her.
When we send a consultant to a Client to provide services and our consultant isn't able to accomplish his mission we don't charge for our consultant's time
Expected, your lady-friend didn't provide the expected services, so, she shoulda left without money and apologized for not being able to do her job
Well I certainly don't think she needs to apologize for not being able to "perform" given the circumstances. For those that believe I should have said or done something about setting parameters earlier on in the date - how could I have gone about doing that with out coming off as a cold hart-ed bastard? It seems to me if I had said in the first 30 minutes or so something to the effect of it doesn't look like it is going to happen you should probably just go I come across as not caring about her at all when it was clear she need some emotional support. just trying to understand how I could have done that under the circumstances.
challenge. When faced with similar situations, how do we find a tactful/diplomatic way of turning this into a win-win situation for all. If both parties are above board and relatively open-minded, there must be a way. We live and we learn. This is especially important because you still wanted to maintain a professional (?) relationship with her.
In hindsight (being 20/20 and all) maybe I should have just given her the money and told her that I thought it would be fair that we rescheduled when she got back from her trip for our original plans at no cost. I just don't know. Also, I don't know that it matters but the fee was laying in the bathroom were I always put it for our dates so after thinking about it some more she could have just walked in the bathroom and taken it but made a point in asking for it instead. Of course if she would have done that I still would have felt it was wrong but I wouldn't have physically stopped her from doing so (just not who I am). I don't know I have a lot to think about after reading these comments.
so a transaction is on the table. what you needed to do what (tactfully) mention something about it.
20/20 hindsight, but you could have said something 30 min or so into the melt down, very gently, like "gee, it looks like you're no kind of space for a session, do you just want to skip it today and reschedule?"
ball would have been in her court to decide or announce if she thought she was in the middle of a session or not. then take it from there.
but i thnik you let your emotions get the better of you.
And she doesn't want to have anything to do with you.
You insight to the situation is spot on. My only comment is Expected could have prefaced the stay with a comment like "I understand how you feel. Tonight will be friends, not business". and proceed from there.
Playing the "all about the sex" card is a cheap shot! I can understand she was having a bad day, but I've been on the other end of this (in short, a longtime regular complaining that I was "all about the money" when he wanted a free visit) and I was livid. Now, I have also been in a situation where I showed up to visit a regular and was unable to follow through with the sex. I told him that I expected no money and apologized profusely. He gave me the full amount anyway (knowing at the time I could definitely use it) and you bet your ass I made it up to him.
I don't know if this can be salvaged, but I do think the onus is on her to make things right. We all fuck up sometimes.
- Been seeing my ATF 0ne to two times a month for nearly three years. I've only seen her and nobody else for the last two years.
- we set up a two hour session late Monday night - she was headed out of town for 10 days the following evening and I wanted to see her before she left.
- we communicated earlier in the day and we were both looking forward to it.
- when she arrived I could tell something was wrong, she wasn't her normal self. She said she had just come from another session (first time with the guy) and it didn't go well. She said he had made some degrading comments about what her childhood must have been and she said no that wasn't the case but that when they were having sex he started making the comments again over and over. I asked her why she didn't just get up and leave and she said because she didn't know how he would react and it was an outcall to his private residence and she was afraid how he might react. She also said she had met him online and was afraid he would give her a bad review. I told her he was a fool and he would never get to know what a wonderful person she was.
- she said she needed a little time to get over it so we had something to eat (some fruit I had gotten for her from our earlier conversation that morning). After that she asked if we could just lay down for a little bit. I was fine with that and we just lay together with me holding her. After about an hour she asked if I could massage her back and feet which I did. We then continued to lay together occasionally talking but mostly she just lay with her eyes closed and me holding her, much of the time she actually feel asleep for periods of time.
- After nearly four hours she told me she wasn't going to be able to get in the mood and asked if I just wanted a hand job. I told her no because it wouldn't have been right given how she was feeling and I could tell she really didn't want to. Shortly after that she said she should just go home. I said I understood and we could rescheduled when she got back from her trip.
- As I began to walk her out to her car she turns to me and asks were her money is. Needless to say I'm a little taken aback by this given how the evening went and I tell her that's night right that I shouldn't have to pay because some other asshole made her feel this way and ruined our evening. She got more upset and left.
- a few minutes after leaving she called me and said for me not to contact her again because of the way I made her feel. Then 10 minutes later she called again saying I've told her over and over how much I cared about her (which I have because I do) but it was obviously just about the sex for me and "getting my nut". I responded that it was apparently only about the money for her, that she should look at it from my perspective, that I was perfectly fine not having sex that night given the circumstances but I shouldn't have to pay. We talked for a little longer but she still maintained that I should have paid her and ended the call by telling me to have a good life.
- other background - while we have spent some OTC time together over the last three years it has only been occasionally and never initiated by me. I've always paid without question (in fact I figured that I have paid her nearly $40k over the course of our time together and I'm not a wealthy man just comfortable). I just didn't feel she should have asked to be paid in this circumstance and in fact in made me feel that I was nothing more to her than an easy source of cash.
- with all that said I am going to miss her terribly and would probably try to repair the relationship if she would call me and ask to (although that is unlikely given that she is very stubborn).
Sorry about the length I just needed to get that off my chest. Was I wrong in some way ( I don't think so)? Should I have done something different?
As an aside I really wish I knew who that other hobbyist was because I would like to find him and beat the shit out of him for ruining a really good thing for me.
Once she gets herself settled, the loss of that twice a month paycheck will start to sting. If she was crass enough to ask for the money, she cares only about the money.
If I ask a plumber to come fix the sink, and he talks four hours about problems at home. I'm not paying him when he leaves for not doing his job. For all those siding with the provider, yeah no. If it was clear to her it was all about the money, SHE should have said after the first hour that any extra hours are going to cost you. That would have made it clear its purely business. When the hour is up with providers, they let you know its time to go. If they go over, its on them because they should have said its going to cost more.
As far as asking for the first hour, thats tricky. I would have been taken back, but would have paid and that would have been the END of that, but thats just the way I'm built - even after two years.
IMHO she'll be back.
Words to live by......lol
...and sooner rather than later.
-- Modified on 8/26/2016 4:25:18 PM
A year or so ago, a provider i'd seen before showed up in the throes of a full-blown panic attack. This is a dicey situation to find yourself in. Im convinced that she was utterly willing to go through with a "normal" session, but recognized that even attempting to do so could put her in a worse condition that could turn out very badly for me (this was my self-interested thought at the time). I also recognized that what a person experiencing a panic attack needs is a sense that she's alright, and the situation is alright, and that everything is going to turn out alright (my non-professional asessment at the time of how I'd like to be dealt with, if i was feeling that distressed).
Like you, I chose the "treat her good" option (which is *such* a TER cliche as to be devoid of meaning, but there are times when it actually makes sense). We talked. Gave her a full body massage (completely non-sexual). Got under the covers, spooned, and took a nap for the balance of the 3 hours (again, no poking her in the back, or anything of the sort). She awoke a new woman.
Unlike you, i paid her without raising any questions & she left. It didn't take long for her to contact me that I'd get a do-over at no charge. Told her I appreciated that, and she's vastly exceeded those terms in the year since then. I knew it was a risk, that there was a decent chance that the payment would be sunk cost. If it was somebody I'd only seen once before, I could be pretty sure of it. And I would never call her back. This was your leverage - and you blew it. I could just as easily have made the same mistake, but took the chance that she enjoyed the time she'd spent with me previously & would like that to continue. You had even more reason than I did to take the same chance. Alas...
We actually *are* paying for their time. TER just helps us sort out how they like to spend their time. But there are times when their time is not like their usual time. Ya pays your money & ya takes your chances.
What if she had taken the money and run, moved to another state. You'd be posting a different story.
His leverage? She had all the leverage and decision making, same as in your case. You gave up your leverage (cash), I don't see how you had any leverage other than MAYBE she would feel guilty.
Did your girl ASK for the money, or did you just give it to her?
The phrase a fool and his money are soon parted comes to mind. In OPs case, she'll be back, without the risk of him having paid her.
He had been seeing her for a few years, and had spent tens of thousands with her. You're correct that if she was planning to leave town, her motivation could have been to scam him - unconcerned with future income considerations. I suspect the likelihood of this is exceptionally low. You forgot the possibility that she was simply tired of seeing him - a fair number of providers appreciate the variety in sex partners that the hobby inherently provides. Based on how much he'd spent with her, they've seen each other 50 to 100 (or more) times. Again, a low probability that that put her in a mood to "take" him, but a better probability that she found his response particularly hurtful in the situation due to it. Most likely she found it hurtful because they were in a trusting & productive professional relationship, and as a consequence, well, you fill in the blanks.
"Felt guilty" should have nothing to do with anything.
And, yeah, it turned out in my favor - and in favor of the provider in my story. That misses my point, or points. First off, I had a much shorter relationship in play than the OP, and therefore had much more reason to believe that paying her without comment would end up burning me. It is only the subtlest of graces that prevented me from "going there" at the time. I certainly thought about it. I guess (one always bends hindsight to put oneself in the best possible light, mind you) I just figured if I got burned that I would have more money again, but if I hurt her feelings no amount of acting or faking could make that seem right going forward. But I really wasn't trying to make any kind of point, just telling a tale. Why do I read the discussion boards? To learn from the experiences of others. The OP told his tale, and I feel for him. I came THIS close (my thumb & index finger are almost touching) to doing the same thing. I didn't. Maybe somebody else will benefit from our discussion of it.
I just paid her. Enough trust existed between us that I knew that if she didn't NEED the money our appointment represented, she'd have rescheduled. She not only needed the money, but much more importantly needed something completely other than my original intent in setting the appointment. Call it the Boyfriend Experience. Hell, call it the Gay Boyfriend Experience - that's probably closer to the mark, considering that I recognized that trying to extract sexy time from the situation was going to be a bad idea.
As for "a fool and his money are soon parted", didn't I already say something like that? In my case it was stated "ya pays your money & ya takes your chances". Not literally the same thing, but versions of the same idea. And here's the distinction: we're dealing with human relationships here. You do what you think is situationally right, and sometimes it turns out you were wrong. In his situation, I'd have definitely done what I did. In my situation, he should probably have done what he did. He'd have definitely lost out, and I'd have probably (almost certainly) benefitted the same way as I have in mine. Life is funny that way - defaulting to cynicism isn't always the way to win.
Just providing a different perspective and scenario. I think you did the right thing, and I get in those modes where I've been taken advantage of a number of times because of my good nature. I get tired of it, and go into the FU mode. Then I read stories like yours and yellow envelope and think its better to take the high road. Its difficult as i get older.
That being said, in the LONG run, its better to take the higher road. At the end of the day you have to look at the guy in the mirror.
On another forum a girl catfished a ton of guys, of 'epic' proportion and that I'm not kidding. She pretended she had cancer. In hindsight it was clear she was lying, but she never asked for anything, demanded anything, just guys jumped in to help. People were making of other people for being duped, and were doing some serious name calling and "I knew, you're stupid you didn't know". One poster in general noted he had no regrets. He acted in good faith, and you just never know. She needed attention for whatever reason, and he had no regrets for being nice - in the face of a lot of guys giving hi crap. He held his head high, and I totally respected it.
Difficult hobby sometimes. My first inclination was kick her to the curb, which I would have done. In retrospect, have to think about it. Appreciate your posts.
Good for you for recognizing the long term benefits of being so understanding and frankly a smart man!
Steph xoxo
I walked into the session, and the lady was in tears. It seems that her client real life boyfriend had just stiffed her, in the wrong way. Didn't keep all those promises, and she was a mess. We spent hours talking. Making love wasn't even a thought.
Another time I walked into a session, the lady started talking, and wouldn't stop for a solid hour. I literally couldn't get a word in. When there was a lull, I finally blurted out that I was pressed for time, and had to go. We didn't have time to make love.
In both instances I set the money down when I walked in the door. The best rule of thumb in this hobby is that the money goes down first. Then if something happens, it's up to the lady's professionalism to make restitution for the lost session. In my case, the first lady sent an email thanking me, saying that my next session was a on the house at my earliest convenience. I never heard back from the second lady again. That sucks, but that's the hobby. Anything, and everything can happen.
And then sometimes you get exceedingly lucky strictly based on timing. The lady just got her cancer test results from her doctor, and they were negative. A few minutes later I walked in her room. Do you think she was wildly happy?
That's what a gentleman does. Nice to know they still exist.
When I was new to the 'monde, I traveled by plane to see a gent who I'd seen a couple times before and of whom I was very fond. We met in a very busy and trafficky EC city- it ended up taking an hour and a half to get to our dinner from the airport, two hours at dinner, and an hour back to the airport. It was a 4 hour dinner date ($2K), and he was to also cover my flight. Neither of us expected the traffic to be that bad, but I was really shocked that he gave me an envelope with just my flight money in it. And he said something along the lines of, "at least you should get the flight money". I was so shocked that I didn't say anything- I didn't know what to say. This was completely not like I expected him to be. But I was gracious and kissed him goodbye at the airport (although less warmly than I might have. I was still in shock). He arranged to see me again soon after, and that next time he gave me two envelopes without saying a word: one with the current amount and one with the $2K from the rushed dinner engagement. He also gave me a sapphire necklace. We've been seeing each other about twice a year ever since. He's never, ever done that again, and has been nothing but generous and wonderful. We never spoke about that moment, but clearly his desire to continue our relationship was worth making things right with me. And believe me, he has reaped many, many special rewards for his being so wonderful.
You're right: you are paying for time. Nothing is guaranteed to happen during that time. But people make decisions about with whom to meet again based on a mutually enjoyable time.
between Expected and his lady-friend. He was offering money for certain expected services, not just hours. She didn't provide said services and she shouldn't expect to be paid.
She sounded like her mind was not in the right place from the previous appt and she needed a friend. You were her next appt and became that friend. You were a gentleman in that aspect. I've had an appt before with a regular where it turned out he just needed a friend and talked with me the whole session. Yes I did charge him. That was my time. But in this you listened and were charged ? I don't think that's right. It's not your responsibility. It is p4p. You are still a client. So it was either she charge you to play or not to be a friend.
... with a 3-year ATF relationship: You recognize she needed someone to console her. You do that, because she's more to you than just a body you pay for sex. You spend 4 hours together--twice the agreed time. When she leaves, you give her the donation for the 2 hours you agreed to. She thanks you but tells you to keep it, because you were a big help to her and you didn't have anything close to a normal session. But you insist she take it, because otherwise she has no income for that evening and you did get something out of the 4 hours you spent with her. She's very appreciative, gives you a big hug and kiss, and tells you she'll make it up to you somehow when she returns from her triip.
I've never regretted showing kindness to someone in need.
You know you did right by someone. I think he had the right not to pay, and she shouldn't have asked. But taking care of a person in need is always the right thing to do. I likely would have paid.
You both are very kind hearted guys 
Most people do have really down days as it sounds like this woman did. I think she would have tried to make it up to you but now you've probably lost that chance. She absolutely should have offered something if you had paid her
Sometimes, some people just need some understanding. I've had somewhat situation happen to me ( I had lost my father) and the guy was so sweet and still payed me. I ended up grandfathering him in for 4 hours at my 2hr rate I was so appreciative of him being there for me good deeds do come back around ya know. We are all only human honey.
Maybe you could reach out to her and offer a make up appointment if you value her like you said?
Honestly, this is really such a complicated situation and hope you both can work it out.
XOXO
TL
For the op, you have/had what civvies would call a relationship whether you acknowledge it or not. At that point p4p with her does not mean independence; it means interdependence. Interdependence is great but it's important to know what the other person needs and be there in whatever way you have to if you want to stay in it.
And seriously, we all like sex, and I've been in the same place as you where someone I still see regularly was once (and in fact other times too) just too tired and the first time that happened I was like 'huh?' and then after we talked, and some soul searching, I did actually pay and I'm glad I did.
I then realized when you swim past the shallow end of p4p - whether you mean to or if it just happens - you recognize that having a good woman in your life is a great thing, and if all it takes to keep us sane is to help pay her bills so she can stay sane then -- well, it just feels good if you have the means to do it.
But we all pay different prices when we become intertwined in another human being's life; and it's great when we get back way more than we pay, and in fact it's really great when paying stops feeling like paying. And I tell you what - money is the easy thing to pay. What a woman like this gives to me doesn't come from pushing four numbers at an atm.
she now sees you more as a boyfriend than as a client, and this is understandable. It's one of the downfalls of seeing a provider exclusively for such a long period. I very much doubt she would have given you this attitude if you were someone she was meeting for the first time.
What she should have done is cancelled the session on account of her (very understandable) head space, but she was looking towards you to be the boyfriend to comfort her (Which you did to your credit.) but also supporting her (Which you didn't so, likewise to your credit.)
I would bet that she will come around and make things right with you, but you never know. Shit happens in this world and in this hobby especially. You might have to shrug it off and start over.
I had a few similar experiences and sometimes they come around and sometimes they don't. One gal took nearly 2 years to come back
sorry to say that,just be honest,she don't love you,and you should pay.end of story
I would have paid her for the original amount of time scheduled. Take the high road and then move on. Prostitution and feelings don't mix well.
But the rightness or wrongness escapes me. I don't think there is a right or wrong, Lisa Lang and NoYellowEnvelope gave you a way to look at it. She "shouldn't" have asked and you "should" have offered. But shouldn't or should've to what end? I don't think anything went "wrong," but the experience you had was not what you had hoped or planned for, but you had a meaningful experience. That's not a very smart way of summing it up, but it's the best I can do.
Why do want to know whether or not you did the right thing? Are you thinking of what'd be the appropriate way of dealing with what happened? Or do you mean what would have been the right gesture in terms of harmonious human interaction? And do you see why I have trouble seeing how right or wrong applies in this situation?
You did nothing dishonorable. You did nothing foolish. I don't see how you will ever come to regret your actions. Likewise she did nothing right and nothing wrong. It just happened. You could not have been anyone else and neither could she, so something a little awkward and a little sweet and beautiful went down.
So all I can say is it's all right.
Assuming your past history with her revealed no signs of mental illness, given that she was your ATF, you should have no problem having a frank discussion with her about the substandard session. Let her suggest a remedy, and if she doesn't then you suggest one. Since that window of opportunity has passed, I would recommend staying away for awhile and when she contacts you and tells you she misses you, take the moment to tell her that because she wasn't all there for your last session of four hours, it seemed like only two hours for you. This will lead her to the suggestion that she will reimburse you by comping two hours on your next four-hour session, a reasonable outcome.
The provider didn't want to perform. The OP didn't get any sex out of the deal, even though that's why they met.
No play, but pay?
It sounds like any misunderstanding of the relationship that's developed land squarely on the shoulders of the client. In her mind, she showed. She stayed. She offered a hand job that was turned down. Regardless of anything else, she's looking to get paid. No blurred lines or misunderstanding of the relationship in her eyes. Sounds like a reality check of the relationship just got served.
and she should be paid for 4 hours??? - seriously?!?!
Let's please remember who the customer is - it ain't her.
Everyone wants to feel sorry for her because she had a bad day, but, Expected-Better bent over backwards to help her, and she's pissed she didn't get paid.
If my consultant worked for 4 hours, didn't accomplish anything and complained to my Client guess what - consultant is fired
Hell no she shouldn't be paid for four hours! I said "In her mind". In other words the relationship he thought they had...probably never was
She should have offered a reach-around.
...
which I believe it was... and he acted as a gentleman... he should not have to pay for the privledge of doing so.
If she did this on purpose, we'd universally condemn it as a SCAM. (Promising higher services but reluctantly offering only a HJ.)
She is a provider you are a stack of $100's to her. She could give a damn about you.
...have crossed the line by being exclusive with her and developing feelings for her but she demonstrated that she doesn't give a damn about you. Her being upset at the other guy is no excuse for asking you for her donation.
You should have paid her for the two hours you booked and then not contacted her anymore. If she would have called you after a while when she had calmed down, you could have expressed your disappointment with her for asking for the money and learn her reaction and what she's really made of.
If she didn't call you afterwards, you could have written the money off as tuition for a life lesson. There's a German word for it: "lerngeld."
in the end, this is what many call it, p4p?, all provider on here mention on their website that you paid for their time, no money is exchange for sex.
I'm sorry that she had a bad session before she came to see you, and you said she stayed for 4 hours even though you scheduled with her for 2 hours. if I were in your position, i would just paid her the money regardless what she said, and if she truly think of you as a friends, you'll get more back in the future.
I hope you can patch things up between the two of you, a true good friendship between a hobbyist and a provider is a rare thing. Best of luck to yo
1. dozen years ago: On a few occasions, a regular I was seeing and I finished and I paid her after which I asked if she wanted to join me for dinner. In each case it was after the close of business. She said yes, we had dinner, no additional money changed hands.
2. Dozen years ago: On a few occasions, a regular would visit NYC for a few days. I had a great apartment a short taxi rise from the airport. The first time she asked if she could arrive at my place late her last night, sleep over, and get a ride early the next AM to the airport. A pleasure. Peck on the cheek, tea when she arrived, slept in separate rooms, coffee waiting in the am, ride to the airport. She did this twice more. Favor by me, no service, no money.
3, Decades ago: Traveling in Europe on a lecture tour with a provider; of course paid all expenses and her fee for the week. Supposed to leave from Paris for home early Friday am. She asked if we could extend the trip for a week end in London. She made it clear she would expect no added fee. I paid all added expenses. I did also pay for some shopping in London.
Any other time: her time, my money no matter what we did.
I have never had a relationship like that where I saw only one provider. Hard to put myself in that place. I am not sure what I would have done in this circumstance.
Too bad an apparently good relationship may be ended over a misunderstand about money.
you did nothing wrong in my opinion. I realize this is P4P but her behavior is inappropriate and although you are hurting it is best to stay away from her given her true colors. I feel for you. Take solace that there are plenty of women who will treat you better.
For all that drama you may as well have dated a civilian.
Don't get emotionally drawn in a and try and act like her boyfriend in this situation.
Hookers and johns. You wanted something and she wanted your money. Don't get it so twisted.
She was all about the money....
1. She is not an ATF...when the rest of us providers who live in the real world have a not so cool session. We either
Pull up our big girl panties and do our next sessions, without bitching,to good regular paying client. The fuck, guys don't pay us to bitch about the next guy.
2.,We cancel our next appt....until we can get back in the right head space.
-- Modified on 8/27/2016 8:46:41 AM
Over the 6 years I saw her... a lot of drama would pop up when I was with her. Many times we took time to talk & make her feel better... she wasn't otherwise able. Often her sessions were off, due to her emotional state. She NEVER suggested I pay her & skip the agreed session.
On one such occasion, we were just getting nekid when her sister calls... apparently her sister was subleasing an appartment & just stopped paying... the landlord was after the Fav. I got up, to give her some privacy & she shouted after me "Where do you think you are going?" I lied & just said "bathroom" but it was very uncomfortable & I was wishing I could slip away. An hour later, we got back into bed...
Our time might have been interrupted but I always got the contracted total play time & paid for it.
This was only one of several such occasions... either I had crappy timing or she had way too much drama in her life...
It is P 4 P. Pay for Play.
Thank you for all the responses.
At this point I am going to simply try to learn from the experience and take the attitude that "one door closing in life opens up other doors and other possibilities." Whether those other possibilities are for a chance to meet other wonderful women to connect with or possibly for a better relationship with her (based on a better understanding and clear articulation of each of our needs and wants) should she choose to reach out and want to try to move forward - who knows.
Regardless, I appreciate the ability to be able to discuss things like this hear. After all were else can we?
if she was there longer it's on her.
for the massage and emotional therapy you provided.
- Been seeing my ATF 0ne to two times a month for nearly three years. I've only seen her and nobody else for the last two years.
- we set up a two hour session late Monday night - she was headed out of town for 10 days the following evening and I wanted to see her before she left.
- we communicated earlier in the day and we were both looking forward to it.
- when she arrived I could tell something was wrong, she wasn't her normal self. She said she had just come from another session (first time with the guy) and it didn't go well. She said he had made some degrading comments about what her childhood must have been and she said no that wasn't the case but that when they were having sex he started making the comments again over and over. I asked her why she didn't just get up and leave and she said because she didn't know how he would react and it was an outcall to his private residence and she was afraid how he might react. She also said she had met him online and was afraid he would give her a bad review. I told her he was a fool and he would never get to know what a wonderful person she was.
- she said she needed a little time to get over it so we had something to eat (some fruit I had gotten for her from our earlier conversation that morning). After that she asked if we could just lay down for a little bit. I was fine with that and we just lay together with me holding her. After about an hour she asked if I could massage her back and feet which I did. We then continued to lay together occasionally talking but mostly she just lay with her eyes closed and me holding her, much of the time she actually feel asleep for periods of time.
- After nearly four hours she told me she wasn't going to be able to get in the mood and asked if I just wanted a hand job. I told her no because it wouldn't have been right given how she was feeling and I could tell she really didn't want to. Shortly after that she said she should just go home. I said I understood and we could rescheduled when she got back from her trip.
- As I began to walk her out to her car she turns to me and asks were her money is. Needless to say I'm a little taken aback by this given how the evening went and I tell her that's night right that I shouldn't have to pay because some other asshole made her feel this way and ruined our evening. She got more upset and left.
- a few minutes after leaving she called me and said for me not to contact her again because of the way I made her feel. Then 10 minutes later she called again saying I've told her over and over how much I cared about her (which I have because I do) but it was obviously just about the sex for me and "getting my nut". I responded that it was apparently only about the money for her, that she should look at it from my perspective, that I was perfectly fine not having sex that night given the circumstances but I shouldn't have to pay. We talked for a little longer but she still maintained that I should have paid her and ended the call by telling me to have a good life.
- other background - while we have spent some OTC time together over the last three years it has only been occasionally and never initiated by me. I've always paid without question (in fact I figured that I have paid her nearly $40k over the course of our time together and I'm not a wealthy man just comfortable). I just didn't feel she should have asked to be paid in this circumstance and in fact in made me feel that I was nothing more to her than an easy source of cash.
- with all that said I am going to miss her terribly and would probably try to repair the relationship if she would call me and ask to (although that is unlikely given that she is very stubborn).
Sorry about the length I just needed to get that off my chest. Was I wrong in some way ( I don't think so)? Should I have done something different?
As an aside I really wish I knew who that other hobbyist was because I would like to find him and beat the shit out of him for ruining a really good thing for me.