if you don't like the reference that a potential client gives you it sounds like you have a decision to make. You can accept the appointment even though you are not comfortable, tell the hobbyist that you are not comfortable with his reference and request another reference or just not respond back to the hobbyist and ignore any additional emails from him. The last option may make the hobbyist think that his reference told you he was a creep or that you are an incredible flake.
The decisions are all yours but since you have set up contact requirements that probably included screening and references with the knowledge that you will eliminate some gentlemen along with the undesirables why are you so concerned about what this gentleman thinks about your motives for rejecting his reference?
If your screening is already excluding a number of hobbyists what is one or two more?
After reading the post below regarding verification, or lack thereof, I started thinking about it from a provider's perspective...
Ladies who rely mainly on references as a means of verification, how do you feel accepting a reference from a provider who doesn't screen at all? Do you accept and see the gentleman? Do you assume because he has seen one provider he will be a safe bet? Do you tell the gentleman you cannot accept her as a reference and ask him for another provider reference or additional information? How would you go about explaining this to him? Gentlemen, how would you feel if a provider would not accept your reference and asked you for additional information?
Any thoughts on this would be appreciated as it is a topic that hits close to home for me. Thanks!
~Michelle
I have assumed that all ladies do screen! I guess not. If I knew that a particular provider was not screening, HELL NOOO..I would never accept her as a reference. Also, I would tell the gentleman who was seeking time with me, my reasonings (no holds barr, either), and would require an additional reference, other than the one he had suggested.
What is really scarey, one gentleman posted below that he has seen providers who have never screened him, other than a name/cell phone (?). I hope it's not any of the providers he may have reviewed, for if I ever received a reference by any of those ladies, I would have red flags up all the way, and would not use them as a reference. EVER.
-- Modified on 3/24/2004 3:02:24 PM
Even if the first provider never asked for any information, by default, since she survived the encounter, did not get arrested, and says the guy is nice, then after the fact, what does it matter how well she screened?
I would only refuse a reference if it was from an unknown provider without a website or other means to verify her.
And, yes, I do assume that if a hobbyist has seen one "known" provider (and she says he's fine), he is a pretty safe bet.
But, I would rather be that way, than not have a care in the world. There have been some recent busts out where I am at, and I am not taking chances for no one. I will admit that I really feel comfortable with using another provider as a reference, who is into being safe, rather just out here and not really caring.
-- Modified on 3/24/2004 5:38:10 PM
us guys waiting for someone else to "take one for the team" with an unreviewed provider. Why care what risks the first provider took if the outcome was positive?
I have no quarrel with a lady's right to demand as much information as she wants (in some cases this seems to include social security number, bith certificate of his firstborn, you name it). I do, however, reserve my own right to question her judgement. And to just move on if I feel her demands are urnreasonable.
Besides, I don't have any kids so I'd be unable to deliver my firstborn's birth certificate.
the provider concerns are basiclly 2 first that a hobbyist is not harmful the other we all know about. it should be well known that screening only covers the first and this should not even be a issue to discuss just ask anyone that screened yet still got in trouble or someone that knows a freind or two. so getting a refer from someone that doesn't screen is not the issue. it's how well does she know the person. i for one would say i only seen him once or twice and give any other info i could remember concerning safety and suggest to still be careful. if he was a regular only then would i give the "ok refer" as i know for sure he is a good gent. so the matter of importance is how well do you know the person to give a positive refer.
networking is a good thing but there are very few if any resources available for providers. in contrast there is an abundance of sources for hobbyist. just look at where we are at (here). this brings a question i've been seeking i found a few sites that check/verify but not sure if they are good or safe for all concerned. i won't give the addresses as it might conflict with this site but you can email me if interested in looking into it. as another said here it comes down to some of us willing to take the risk of "taking one for the team". but there are those that might think why should i give my hard efforts for others to benifit from it. to that hobbyist should aswner the best as just look at the success and praise this place gets. i'm sure more that a few are thankful they didn't fall into that ROB situation because this place/system was created.
now the hobbyist has 3 concerns the first we all know about then it's the ROB and finally quailty vs. value. the last is not a safety concern so basiclly both have the same concerns. and it's more a problem for providers. so it's brings a question for the hobbyist. how would you feel about being reviewed/listed as a provider is but of course with privacy being respected and thougth about. maybe now a providers privacy will be respected and thought about. i know i know the whole thing about who is who in respect to the econm point. but the current times demand a major change.
if you enjoy this hobby why not be respectful and considerate in making it safe for all concerned. it will make everyone happy and issues like this and others (providers stress/stabilty, hobbyist complaints, etc.) will not even be a topic of discussion. if not providers can push the issue with the supply and demand theory. it's foolish to think one day there will not be a demand as the saying about the oldest profess. but then the hobbyist could try to reverse the theory but that will not happen as people just don't think that way if they did we could force the price of gas to come down. that industry does not fear it neither should providers. i think econm wise it would cause quailty vs. value to be reasonable. someone who knows more about econm than me could correct me. but i think no need to be excessive when you can be sucessful and safe at the same time. the $$$$ type might not like the idea of networking but would be interested in their input. i for one would love to corresp with only good people in relation to being reasonable but find it a difficult and trick task.
the bottom line is that hobbyist and provider concerns are one and the same and up until now only hobbyist had a real need to network so the reverse was never considered as a part of the hobby but if accepted impoves the hobby in light of current times and makes things better for all. hobbyist should never consider using someone you only seen once or twice when a provider is extreamly causious and a provider should let it be known what is an exceptable refer in terms of how well the person knows you. kind of pointless if you require a reference but don't specify to what degree the person should know you. thats when you run into those "what to do" when it's not to your standards. making it an akward and time wasting function for all involved. it's all good in the sisterhood really needs to be taken to heart not just spoken without meaning. we all have different opinions and standards but our everyday concern remains the same: safety.
AnonymousP.
[email protected]
I'd probably do anything within reason...if I was
sure that she was on the level.
I suppose that's their right if that's what it takes to make you feel comfortable or an excuse to be low volume. No matter the reason everyone is an individual and entitled to their own methods. It's all good in the sisterhood.
-- Modified on 3/24/2004 7:08:54 PM
"Its all good in the sisterhood!"
Lmao!
You got an Applebee's in there?
"Eatin' Good in the sisterhood!?"
I might have likened you to that as you were eatin good in my neighbourhood a few weeks ago... (He stares wistfully out at the Pacific from his office recalling his tool submerged in NetM's...)
I have seen another provider and used her for a reference. Now you realize that she did not 'screen me', although she did give me the reference.
What exactly is your concern here? So she didn't 'screen me'; obviously I did not arrest her or she wouldn't have given me the reference, would she?
Or do you suppose providers would give referrals for someone that they haven't seen?
If a provider is only asking for a first name and a cell phone number, I find it hard to believe she may be able to recall the gentleman offhand. If she had a full name and maybe saw his e-mail, that may be easier to remember than just a first name and cell phone with the area code in her area. But how many Mike's, Dave's, and John's (no pun intended) are out there? Plenty. If the gent knows she does not screen, he may be able to use her as a reference and she could get him confused with another Mike and give the go ahead.
I am rather uneasy when I get a response to a reference request from someone who does not screen. Who knows if she even saw the person in question? Fake name? Throw away cell phone? What if he was fine with her (possibly because he knows there is no screening involved and he can now use her as reference), but ripped me off or even harmed me? What recourse would I have? I couldn't warn other ladies about someone whose identity I wasn't positive of.
How about when you e-mail the provider in question for a reference request from someone you know she hasn't seen, kind of a test, and she sends you back an e-mail giving you the go ahead to see this person. How would you feel? Would you still accept references from her because she is a well known provider???
I understand there are risks in the hobby, and a need for discretion, but I like to minimize that risk while valuing privacy. If I tell the gent I can't see him because I don't trust the other provider as a reference, that will make me look like I am asking for too much information, or maybe I am just a bitch who has it out for the other provider.
I wish there were no risks, and a first name and cell number were sufficient, but unfortunately in the current climate it is not sufficient. I want to minimize my risk of getting hurt or busted by LE. Flame away...
if you don't like the reference that a potential client gives you it sounds like you have a decision to make. You can accept the appointment even though you are not comfortable, tell the hobbyist that you are not comfortable with his reference and request another reference or just not respond back to the hobbyist and ignore any additional emails from him. The last option may make the hobbyist think that his reference told you he was a creep or that you are an incredible flake.
The decisions are all yours but since you have set up contact requirements that probably included screening and references with the knowledge that you will eliminate some gentlemen along with the undesirables why are you so concerned about what this gentleman thinks about your motives for rejecting his reference?
If your screening is already excluding a number of hobbyists what is one or two more?
Your post was very well done, and it also expressed my concerns. As per someone who had mentioned above, that some of us take our screening to the extreme, well I look at it this way. I would rather screen, screen, screen, then let my guard down, not screen one day OR, not just taking one small part of his info, and think that he is okay. Sorry, but when it comes down to my safey, I come first. Yes, ladies may be eliminating some really nice men out there, who really may be okay, but there is no amount of money in the world, that is worth it, than to take a chance on meeting someone, who could be LE. I wish that some hobbyists would put on our shoes one day, and walk around in it, and meet the very few men, who are wackos, stalkers, just dangerous men who don't care about a woman's feelings, or if he is hurting her or not, as long as he gets himself off on his pleasure of hurting a woman, then maybe the "fuss factor" from some of the same hobbyists who complain, complain, complain (and you know who you are), would be at all time low.
-- Modified on 3/25/2004 6:34:58 AM