As far as I know, I've never been with a post-op trans person. If I have I don't care. But some people have hang-ups about it and I don't look down on them for it, unlike you. How anyone can look at a simple belief in truth in advertising as homophobia is unbelievable. In your case, however, since you are one of the board's biggest suck-ups, it's hardly surprising you'd rather suck up to a dishonest hooker than expect simple honesty from someone
I was having lunch today with a bud of mine. We discussed the various types of deception in P4P and most of which is really not harmful (eg. age discrepancy or heavily photoshopped pics). We concurred that most guys get that and account for this when selecting a lady to see.
Is someone advertising as a real woman who has had surgery to transform them into a woman and not letting guys know that s/he was a man deceptive? I've chatted with some TS who truly believe that postOp they are women. And I don't have a doubt they believe that. My question is should they, when in a P4P world make sure that a guy knows that they were not born a woman?
No matter what the post-op TS may believe, genetically she's still a male. More important, since she once had a cock and balls, many guys will not want to see her and would feel violated if they were deceived by not being told.
There's no way to sugar-coat this. A post-op TS provider has an obligation not to mis-represent herself. My guess is, for financial reasons, there's a major incentive to not reveal her true states. But it's wrong.
I wonder how many post-op TS girls there are deceiving their customers.
It's a potentially dangerous game.
define "genetic male" -- I have Klinefelter's (47-XXY) and had hips during my first puberty. Many others also have partial androgen insensitivity syndrome, or other intersex conditions.
The Y-chromosome's only major gene is gene SRY -- a hormone switch that turns certain masculine genes on the other 22 pairs of chromosomes on. It's just a switch, and switches get faulty, and if I spliced a copy of the SRY gene into an autosomal chromosome in an 46,XX zygote, that zygote would grow up a boy most likely, despite having the karyotypy of a female. If the androgen receptor acquires mutations or gets repressed, a 46,XY embryo can grow up female.
-- Modified on 6/23/2016 7:00:51 PM
The question is: did she start life with a cock and balls, and, if so, is she obligated to disclose? I say yes.
PS: I'm all for her using the Ladies Room.
With the majority of the customer base here being males (no offense, lopaw), and from the mindset of a majority of males, if an individual has or has had "male genitals", then that person is regarded as male in the eyes of that hobbyist. Plain and simple. No need to splice genes and do gene mapping to understand gender from a male's sexual perspective.
Do some straight males also explore further and find the experience of being with a TS or perhaps another male potentially attractive? Sure. But they know what they want and seek it out intentionally
and 99% of the "non curious" guys out there are going to agree about that fact.
To represent yourself otherwise is a deception, I would love to sugar coat and allow for some gray area, but not only is it dishonest, it's highly dangerous to the provider doing so as well. I am a rather open minded guy, not prone to violence (running my mouth here is a quite different matter of course), but there are many guys, some of them right here on TER who would react VERY badly upon learning that they had had sex with someone who once had a penis.. VERY BADLY.
Is the money you (the generic you, not you specifically) make by claiming to be a "genetic girl" (God I hate that fucking term, but it fits here) really worth risking life and limb?
For example, what if the person was born hermaphrodite and a choice had to be made for sexual assignment when they were very young? I doubt it happens much, but you get my point. In that case I'd say if she was made a girl there's no requirement to disclose, unless she's getting married but can't have kids.
Perhaps there are other such grey areas?
" I doubt it happens much, but you get my point. "
I know many intersex people and intersex people (all conditions combined) constitute almost 1% of the population. this is why the community uses the term "assigned [male/female] at birth," because society made a judgment about our gender even before we were able to voluntarily express it.
-- Modified on 6/23/2016 7:11:46 PM
I disagree. First of all the term intersex is very subjective and highly politicized so that's by definition rids the term of any substantial meaning.
However a quick scanning of statistics from the attached link shows that most common birth ratio for humans that could be considered intersex as is 1 in 1,000.
So that means that we're talking about 0.001% of the population which is a huge distance from 1%.
Moreover at the onset of this stats and on the front page they talk about how difficult it is to define intersex. They talk about the length of the penis as a benchmark. If it's shorter then that much then you maybe intersex by somebody's definition or maybe not by the other's.
Such a gray concept can't by definition be taken seriously as definition for any type of gender variance.
Just my two cents
1 in 100 is 1% . 1 in 1000 is 0.1% not 0.001%.
or maybe zip had one too may... wtf was that lol
-- Modified on 6/24/2016 12:53:02 AM
I had androgen insensitivity syndrome even before hormones so my friends would often remark how much of a girl I looked (and acted). What is the essential feature of the Y chromosome? The SRY gene. What good is that SRY gene if it fails to activate downstream transcriptional sites because they are repressed?
-- Modified on 6/23/2016 7:04:57 PM
I had a GF who's best friend was a TG person saving up for the surgery. He thought like a girl, acted like a girl, when dressed like a girl he looked like a girl, but the fact was, he had a penis, just like you. I also was born in SF and was raised in the Bay Area so it's not like this is all new to me.
Your y chromosome must have had some effect on you as you still have a penis, despite your mind telling you that you are a woman. The only problem I have with most TG people is that they want the world to change to accommodate them, they want us to change the English language to suit them, they want us to treat them exactly as they "believe" that they are, but just believing something doesn't make it true and while YOU might believe you are a woman, that y chromosome is proof positive that you aren't. I will however give you the courtesy of calling you "she" as that is what I am sure you prefer, but that doesn't mean that I believe for a minute that you are actually a woman.
Actually, out of the seven times I have taken my clothes off with someone who didn't know I was trans -- purely by accident as I often assumed they knew -- only one time did someone back off. Three of these experiences were in a non-escorting context. One time I met with someone I thought had seen my ad online, but in fact had seen my photography listing on a photography site but messaged me in a client like way. I used to have a problem with people calling me and not realising I was trans and still kind of do actually, so sometimes I still have to confirm with people that before the clothes come off.
Why is it important to convert anyone????? Simply tell a person prior to getting that far and let them make the choice for themselves.
I support your sexual identity or orientation 100%. But I don't want to be converted to anything, I like me just the way I am. You be you, and let me be me, tolerance darlin, tolerance.
I am as offended by your desire to convert some unsuspecting person as I am a religious person trying to convert me or anyone else that there is an all knowing, unseen entity which supposedly loves his subjects, but will eternally damn them for violating one of his 10 rules.
We can all coexist on this earth just fine, if we don't impose ourselves on each other, wars start because of impositions, and war sucks.
OMG, they were done by accident. It wasn't my intention to convert anyone. I thought they already knew. Like, seeing my ad in the transsexuals category. But some people don't read all the text before calling...
you said it was purely by accident and you thought they knew you were trans. it's russ's own mental block that got him stuck on "converted" (which you also put in quotes, indicating you weren't actually out to convert someone, it just happened that way) instead of his being able to read and accurately comprehend what you wrote.
imo it's old school homophobia that is driving this insistence that post-op trans people identify their pre-op conditions to men. i don't see any women saying "damn that hunky guy i just did used to be a woman! he should told me before i orgasmed!!!"
if you are attracted to someone and you engage in and enjoy intimate relations, what does it matter? seriously, that's like demanding to know how many clients a provider saw before you that day. a person's past is their own, should have no bearing on the here and now.
i guess guys are afraid they will become gay through time-travel, or that the "phantom penis" like a phantom limb will still have power to make them want cock retroactively. or something. i don't know, it makes no sense to me.
"if i put my cock where a cock used to be, will that make me gay in the past?" derp derp derp!
As far as I know, I've never been with a post-op trans person. If I have I don't care. But some people have hang-ups about it and I don't look down on them for it, unlike you. How anyone can look at a simple belief in truth in advertising as homophobia is unbelievable. In your case, however, since you are one of the board's biggest suck-ups, it's hardly surprising you'd rather suck up to a dishonest hooker than expect simple honesty from someone
We are talking about trans people. not gay people.
I was responding to BigSuckupJohnson and used that word because he used it.
We are talking about deceiving clients. She worked as a pre op, "retired" and came back after her surgery with a new name, and different hair color and her new profile did not say post op until a few days ago. That's pure deception and can't be glossed over. IMO this was about her ability to make $$$ pretending to be a GG. She even told a provider friend of mine, that she was born with a vagina when this whole thing began to unravel. That was a complete lie.
Honestly she should get some therapy to deal with this. She could get hurt for this kind of deception by an angry client who feels violated. When you are in this biz, it's how the CLIENT feels about who he has been intimate with, not how I feel or you feel. It was a dangerous thing to do and just not good business. We deal with emotions in our biz.
Steph xoxo
-- Modified on 6/24/2016 6:33:00 AM
they have no clue as to the nuance... they think if they screw a person that used to have balls that might mean they are secretly gay and it terrifies them.
they don't want to find out their junk has been someplace that some other junk pointing the other way had once been.
don't know why.
I expect TER would need more than just one guy saying something didn't feel the same to make that serious of a change on a lady's profile. Just because you claim it wouldn't bother you doesn't make someone "less sophisticate if they feel betrayed by not knowing beforehand.
Steph xoxo
-- Modified on 6/24/2016 6:30:11 AM
i was replying to the idea that the guys are "trans phobic" rather than "homo phobic."
not about being disturbed or not by being with a former male now female. i'm not sure if sophistication has anything to do with that.
what i meant to communicate was that these guys who are upset at the idea are afraid of the now-non-existent penis. homophobia.
So you totally missed the points and you must be doing this on purpose for yourself.
I don't know this provider that committed fraud, but you clearly don't mind her deception.
This is just as bad and your comments, is way off base.
not about being disturbed or not by being with a former male now female. i'm not sure if sophistication has anything to do with that.
what i meant to communicate was that these guys who are upset at the idea are afraid of the now-non-existent penis. homophobia.
Don't impose yourself on others, it really is just that damn simple.
I'll try to draw you a picture if you need one skippy.
I had an experience of meeting a post-op TS, and she was very open about it in her marketing, etc.
She had had an operation in Thailand, and spared no expense. She was gorgeous and even had her adam's apple shaved.
We had been exchanging emails for weeks before we met, and had an excellent rapport. I was bursting to meet her.
Yet, when I met her, I felt no sexual attraction at all, in fact, quite the opposite. I felt awful about it but made up an excuse about not feeling well, and let her keep the donation.
My unscientific and uneducated guess is that is has to do with what we call chemistry, or pheromones, or whatever.
How else to explain not only this, but in fact how I have had intense sexual attraction to certain women who could only kindly be called attractive in a visual sense.
Bottom line: It would be best if all person truthfully represented themselves to what ever extent they feel is relevant. In the long run, we'll all do better
You probably have been sexually attracted to women on the street who are trans and didn't know it. This is statistically likely.
But again, it isn't about the initial attraction. Even a wax apple can look might appetizing, but it's no substitute for the real thing.
Believe me, I would have been happier than ever if my sexual functioning were just a factor of physical attractiveness and emotional compatibility, but I learned the hard way that it isn't.
Would another post-op experience turn out differently? Perhaps, but one burned, twice shy as the saying goes. It can be expensive to experiment. In any case, it is not the case that having "been" with a TS I somehow have doubts about my own sexuality. My regrets mostly stem from feeling like I might have hurt the feelings of the gal, whom I considered a wonderful and intelligent person, and someone I could have had a wonderful relationship with.
I am glad that we now have a micro-biologist on our board to complement our doctor Joe. Now if we can get a cosmologist and a nano-physicist on board, we'll be able to start offering graduate degrees in science
You should meet a new ts so u can tell new story to the boards 
ahhahahaha. Jack Dunphy can attest to my cuddling skills.
xoxo
...if you found out a few weeks later that this 'she' used to be a 'he'?
http://www.cosmopolitan.com/entertainment/news/a42434/caroline-tula-cossey/
Since some other providers on here are being deceptive in their profiles and businesses.
http://www.cosmopolitan.com/entertainment/news/a42434/caroline-tula-cossey/
i'd go back and do her again, just to make sure! and boy i would be griping the whole time she was bouncing those tits in my face!!
Who has the biggest hands?
You know the old saying--the most important sex organ is the brain. My *mind* has to be engaged for me to respond well physically.
All this talk about hormone switches and continuums is all well and good, but I promise you that if you used to have a cock and balls, my brain is going to associate you with being a guy, and I'm not going to share intimacy with someone who has or used to have male genitalia. We might have a great conversation, and we could be friends or esteemed colleagues, or whatever. But I have no interest in sleeping with you. You could be the hottest thing around but my brain would shut down all arousal.
And if I was the victim of a non-disclosure situation (yes, I said "victim" -- I would consider it a deception), I would react...very badly. Not by being violent, but by being repulsed.
But there are also cases of guys who harm themselves when they have been deceived this way. Suicide, successful or unsuccessful; other forms of self-harm or self-mutilation. "I can't believe I was so dumb to have been fooled!!" and such feelings lead to bad outcomes for the guy. Even if his family and friends never find out, he feels, "Oh no! They'll think I'm gay!" And so on.
Further down the thread, someone asked about what else should be disclosed and not having to disclose "secrets". No Provider needs to know all secrets but one topic has come up a couple of times. Those are the stories about guys showing up at an incall packing heat (a handgun). There were strong opinions that the guy MUST disclose is he's carrying so that the Provider can decline to see him.
For me, TS/TG is something that needs to be disclosed ahead of time. Not to do so is deceptive.
There's no way to sugar-coat this. A post-op TS provider has an obligation not to mis-represent herself. My guess is, for financial reasons, there's a major incentive to not reveal her true states. But it's wrong.
I wonder how many post-op TS girls there are deceiving their customers.
It's a potentially dangerous game.
I would thoroughly enjoy chatting with our Sasha, like at a M&G or such. But I'm not interested in a session with her, cool people are cool people, no matter their sexual orientation or sexual identity.
I feel it's the responsible thing for a TS to ensure a potential client is aware, there are plenty of hobbyists who seek for TS. To each their own.
100% with you on that.
That is a great question and one certain to raise impassioned responses, and there are some such already.
I wonder what is our collective answer to a related question: If we are having great sessions with a provider, believe she is 100% woman without even the hint of the thought that she is a TS crossing our minds, do we want to know whether she is a post-op TS or not?
I think it is incumbent on a provider to find out if I'm okay with sexual activity with someone who used to be a man and give me the opportunity to opt out based on that information if its not my thing.
I prefer having the ability to make an informed decision. Seems like all the hobbyists in this thread want that too. Both parties should disclose information that she or he should believe the other would find material.
So has anyone here been in that position of the scenario I posed, where you have a great session with someone you believe to be a woman, then later find out she used to be a man?
Well, what you don't know or don't realize obviously won't bother you. But the experience shows that ignorance here is far from bliss.
Because chances are high that sometime later you'd find out about what really transpired and reaction to such news most likely be absolute disgust with yourself, with situation you've been put in, and post factum with the whole experience but especially in regards to deception. The consequences of that is hard to predict and vary from individual to individual (do we still have a luxury to think and feel as individuals or "we are Borg. You will be assimilated"? 
) Some may not think much of it but hefty majority would react with varied degrees of hostility, the consequences of which is hard to predict.
Don't forget that SRS is a choice. It's nothing more then a personal choice and has little to do with the way you were born or not born. It could be a consequence of the way you were born but it still is a choice.
If I impose my life choices on you I guarantee you you'd feel very antagonistic towards me, if you do the same to me you can count on the same reaction, whether as it takes place as it happens or post factum.
-- Modified on 6/23/2016 6:12:57 PM
To assume that surgery is somehow a "choice" is basically flawed .. It's not a life choice.. it's the way the person is wired.. If a person is wired as a heterosexual and is attracted to a very attractive post surgery TS.. does that make them gay? of course not.. if they believe the woman is a woman.. to them it's a woman.. there are not rules somewhere that exact a specific course of action.. it's not as though you suddenly go for guys if you happen upon a post surgery TS..
I guess the point is.. it's not that big a deal (to me)one way or another.. obviously some really get into it and should bring some sort of genetic testing kit with them on all dates..
that deception on this issue is okay. If a customer "believes" it is a woman, to them it may "look" like a woman, but it doesn't "make" it a woman. Dishonesty is still dishonesty. Not to tell is a sort of fraud by omission because the perpetrator of the fraud knows or should know that the customer may not buy if he were aware of the withheld facts. Applies to most any commercial transaction.
You say "it's not as though you suddenly go for guys if you happen upon a post surgery TS"? You may not. For others it may end up being a life changing experience which could really do a number on their head. People are different. This is not in the league with "bait & switch" or "take your money and run". This is so much more serious. This is the type of thing that can forever change you especially if you're young and prone to soul searching.
On some level I equate this with rape. Oh no, not the violent type. But I don't see much difference between what we're talking about here and f-ing a college chick who just drunk herself into drunken stupor and is totally unresponsive.
-- Modified on 6/23/2016 11:33:05 PM
You get on board an airplane, and unbeknownst to you, a person on the plane has a bomb with them, but luckily it never went off and no one was the wiser.
Would you have wanted to know about this prior to boarding the plane? I think the answer is unreservedly yes, unless you were feeling suicidal, in any case.
Would you want to learn of this after the flight? I'd have to say no. If I had learned of it, I doubt I'd ever fly again, and that is not something I'd be happy with.
Now, I know that comparing flying in a plane to sex is a bit like apples and oranges, but it does put the matter in another perspective to look at.
To tell the truth, I'm scratching my head over this one
I don't believe she should have to disclose. You're not marrying her, or even going to be in a committed relationship with her. Why should she have to disclose this information to a stranger she might only see once? Are you, in turn, going to offer up your secrets to her? If you're only having sex with her, especially once or twice, it doesn't and shouldn't matter what she used to be.
Then we as hobbyists have the right to know that information upfront.
Since any type of business, would get call out or sued for false advertising.
So stop with the bullshit and don't bring up the marriage example.
We are taking about providers being honest, in their businesses with clients.
It's not false advertisement. They currently are women. Why is it important for you to know what someone used to be if you're only there for a one and done? I disagree with plenty comments on here, but you don't see me telling them or you to "stop with the bullshit" or be comfortable enough in their sexuality not to think having sex with someone who used to be a man makes them gay or not manly enough anymore. Again, are you going to disclose to her your secrets? Some of you barely want to part with a name. The OP asked a question, and I answered with MY opinion. Simple.
-- Modified on 6/23/2016 8:43:06 PM
Just like if you purchased jewelry, shoes or car and find out it fake or a counterfeit later.
I bet anything you would be pissed.
So it's false advertisement and a lie.
If you changed from a man, then acting like a woman and don't say anything.
Since you don't want questions asked, then don't lie in your business.
We all know, this is a money making business for providers.
This is why some of you are lying on here now and are afraid of losing business or clients being upset with your scam.
I will say you and the others doing this, is making it worse for the honest providers.
If your business is based on deception, then really you have the problem and not the hobbyists!
-- Modified on 6/23/2016 8:43:06 PM
If it were jewelry, shoes, or a car I would be keeping them longer than one night.
"I will say you and the others doing this, is making it worse for the honest providers." - What exactly am I doing? What exactly am I lying about? Please do tell. Don't mistake me defending something as me partaking in it.
So you think it's okay, if clients don't know the truth?
Just seeing your response comments, clearly you agree with doing that to your clients.
You need to ask yourself, why do I agree with business fraud?
The product you are selling is not real!
It's that simple and no excuse for it.
"I will say you and the others doing this, is making it worse for the honest providers." - What exactly am I doing? What exactly am I lying about? Please do tell. Don't mistake me defending something as me partaking in it.
Ha! You're more than welcome to come see for yourself.
I don't know you, and you don't know me. Don't go throwing around accusations. I can very well defend something and not partake in it. I'm a big defender of the LBGTQ community in general. So, yes, I believe trans women are women inside and outside of this profession.
You're expecting information irrelevant to your health and well being, but only relevant to your masculinity. Okay, how about we start asking each other important questions. Like when's the last time you got tested, do you have an sti or have you had an sti? I would think those more pertinent than knowing if someone used to be a different gender.
It makes sense, why you deceived some of your clients too.
Also not interested in anything, you have to offer.
Just real woman, born female and not into pretenders.
I don't know you, and you don't know me. Don't go throwing around accusations. I can very well defend something and not partake in it. I'm a big defender of the LBGTQ community in general. So, yes, I believe trans women are women inside and outside of this profession.
You're expecting information irrelevant to your health and well being, but only relevant to your masculinity. Okay, how about we start asking each other important questions. Like when's the last time you got tested, do you have an sti or have you had an sti? I would think those more pertinent than knowing if someone used to be a different gender.
I'd never want to see someone who couldn't even truly own up to their opinion (you're hiding behind an alias), and who goes around accusing people he doesn't know as being trans. What a winner.
So no one is accusing anybody, but you must be scared the truth is coming out.
Just remember you are pushing for business fraud on this site and that is my problem.
how is it false advertising? she's a woman now. she likes guys. you are attracted enough to her to pay money to "spend time" with her.
you both enjoy it.
end of story. so what?
the homophobia in this thread is laughable, esp. because everyone qualifies it with a "i commend your lifestyle, i just don't want to be subjected to it." yeah and some of my best friends are negros!
you afraid her chopped off penis will rise from the grave and crawl into your room at night and butt fuck you or something? like the crawling hand?
YEEEEEES!!!!
TRANSPHOBIA disguised as self righteousness. I love you dude. it was awesome
Thank you Sir from the bottom of my heart ...I cannot express how much I appreciate your post with the real handle...it mean the world to me in the moment where everybody is making me a liar and a public enemy just for being myself...
I glad this is not a issue for me and never had this experience.
So those of you providers hiding on here, just remember the pictures don't always lie either. Lol
The issue is, you don't mind deceiving your clients for money.
This is your issue and you need to look, in the mirror at yourself.
you both enjoy it.
end of story. so what?
the homophobia in this thread is laughable, esp. because everyone qualifies it with a "i commend your lifestyle, i just don't want to be subjected to it." yeah and some of my best friends are negros!
you afraid her chopped off penis will rise from the grave and crawl into your room at night and butt fuck you or something? like the crawling hand?
the provider had SRS or not is important to some of us, and not important to others.
The same argument can be made for any number of consumer items we come into contact with. Some people don't care if a handbag is a knock-off as they can't tell the difference, others can spot a fake at 20 paces.
There is no right or wrong on this, just the tastes of the individuals involved,a and we all know there's no disputing taste
You cannot justify this provider actions either.
The same argument can be made for any number of consumer items we come into contact with. Some people don't care if a handbag is a knock-off as they can't tell the difference, others can spot a fake at 20 paces.
There is no right or wrong on this, just the tastes of the individuals involved,a and we all know there's no disputing taste.
what if she used to be amish and you hate amish people but now she's presbyterian?
what if she used to support hillary and you hate hillary but now she loves trump?
what if she used to eat eggplant and you hate eggplant but now she likes broccoli?
what the f difference does it make what USED to be, when now it's a vagina and you liked it and you paid for time with her and her vagina and you thought she was attractive?
other than fear of invisible balls, in what way is it deception? how is she deceiving you?
this industry above all others is about the here and now, an hour of fantasy and pleasure. who cares about the past?
dude you're the one who lost the argument, because it was a pointless self-refuting argument in the first place!
LOL!!!
A surgeon does not make a woman no matter how hard you try to justify your
argument.
Truth in advertising goes a long way in ones reputation in TER community and will be
better for the providers long term business by far then being deceitful.
Just as it came out here
Even a name change does not fully restore a rep. because the former name comes out
in time and always does.
argument.
Truth in advertising goes a long way in ones reputation in TER community and will be
better for the providers long term business by far then being deceitful.
Just as it came out here
Even a name change does not fully restore a rep. because the former name comes out
in time and always does.
In comparison, when the HIV epidemic broke out some time ago in the porn industry, there was great outrage. Others such as Mr. Marcus, knowingly falsified his results that stated he had syphilis. So to compare the point being made by Ivy, what is all the fuss about, it's porn right?? It's not like the performers are marrying each other, or going to be in a committed relationship. Why do they need to disclose such information as a life altering/threatening STD? I mean they are only having sex once or twice right? You're wrong on this one my friend. State what you are, let the client make the decision. As I stated before, there is a market out there for everyone.
That's definitely not the same thing at all, lol, unless you're worried about catching wanting to become trans. Having sex with a trans person is not life threatening solely on the basis that they are trans.
-- Modified on 6/23/2016 10:47:41 PM
life threatening.
What if a former client finds out he had sex with a TS, and goes crazy? It's not out of the question, and has already been mentioned in this thread. One could freak out and then show up back at her door with a baseball bat or a Glock. One might
Use the Glock on himself. There is definitely danger involved in this deception, and the danger could escalate to "life threatening."
-- Modified on 6/23/2016 10:47:41 PM
this post was not only ignorant. your post was; pardon my french, plain stupid.
you are not very intelligent...it is clear....it is altogether a separate issue and cannot be compared to current issue...just stop writing,since you are making yourself a class clown
Re-read the post, I'm not comparing HIV to this issue. I am comparing the fact that when people fail to disclose specific information it can have an adverse affect on others even if the person withholding the information did not intend it to be that way. In accordance with the OP, former TS fails to disclose that she was formerly a he, sees client, client is distraught after finding out, client can not deal with the fact that he has been deceived and does something harmful to himself or her.
There is more than one side of a story. Yes there is sympathy and empathy for the provider, but there is also the side of the client. The point of my post wasn't to compare HIV to what the OP said. I could have used a number of scenarios, the point was that being deceitful can have a negative aftermath.
Now, I think just saying that opens the door to another dialogue about what honesty is about in this case. As I understand the TS question, the individual has always been a woman "by nature."
We're assuming here that we're just talking about M-to-F surgery.
But the individual who has always known they were a woman, were assigned a male agenda at birth. Doctors have reported some cases where physically it could have gone either way and it was left to the medical staff to make the decision. Other times it was obvious--the baby has a penis so it's a boy.
At any rate, this little girl, compelled to grow up DISHONESTLY trying to dutifully play the part of a little boy, now feels she is finally free to face the the world as who/what she HONESTLY has always been.
But, as I see it, this is a pretty momentous life event, indeed one that defines and identifies an person as much as gender. So, in P4p, where everyone knows that some will have issues about this history of the provider. So, to my mind it ought to be stated up front.
Trying to compare it to other deceptions, say age, is kind of difficult. If a woman can honestly portray a 28 year old even though her chronological age is 33, there's "no harm done." It's like a 33-year-old actress playing a 28-year-old woman in a theatrical production or film. But the history of a TS surgical change that allowed the woman to become herself is not quite the same.
So in that sense, we're asking the TS provider to be both dishonest and honest at the same time. She is honestly presenting herself as a woman, and we are requesting that she volunteers the history of the operation and treatment that allowed her to be herself before we decide if we (clients) want to involve our own emotional reaction to a woman who has gone through that.
There are other aspects that I would feel completely the opposite about. If a person of mixed race was generally identified as of Asian descent, European descent, African descent, whatever, I would not feel deceived if they passed as what they looked like and made no mention of beforehand. Oddly though, if I visit a "blonde" provider and see dark roots, I feel somewhat taken in. These are comparably minor deceptions and only affects the whims of what I was in the mood for on any given night. I know I would react more strongly to discovering the woman was TS, and maybe that is a failure of acceptance that I ought to be ashamed of, but it is HONESTLY how I would react during the session (if I stayed and went through with it) and it probably would affect me for a long time after.
Sorry for the length of this response.
Is someone advertising as a real woman who has had surgery to transform them into a woman and not letting guys know that s/he was a man deceptive? I've chatted with some TS who truly believe that postOp they are women. And I don't have a doubt they believe that. My question is should they, when in a P4P world make sure that a guy knows that they were not born a woman?
"Remember, genes are NOT blueprints. This means you can't, for example, insert "the genes for an elephant's trunk" into a giraffe and get a giraffe with a trunk. There are no genes for trunks. What you CAN do with genes is chemistry, since DNA codes for chemicals. For instance, we can in theory splice the native plants' talent for nitrogen fixation into a terran plant."
Academician Prokhor Zakharov, "Nonlinear Genetics"
****
[geeking out on Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri here]
There is no gene for a vagina. There is no gene for a penis. Penises and clitorises come from the same tissue, and so do the labia minora versus scrotal tissue. Certain genes and signallers (which are expressed in continuous, rather than all or nothing levels) simply tell that tissue to form collagen networks in different ways In the gestating embryo, testosterone tells the proto-clit/penis to either take on the development pattern more characteristic of a penis, or a clitoris. It's very much a continuum.
Simply having a gene associated with certain physical features won't give you those physical features if isn't turned on. Alternatively, another chemical or gene product expressed elsewhere in the genome could suppress the RNA or protein products of that gene.
Still, you're right. Sometimes Aphrodite swims with Hermes, and sometimes she don't. She's just a wild unpredictable girl!
Yes, but the SRY gene activates the transcription of genes on the other 22 chromosome pairs plus the X chromosome. The SRY gene does nothing by itself without downstream genes on other chromosomes to activate, chromosomes *all* of us have.
shouldn't we know the same about other alterations?
The point that every hobbyist on this thread is getting at is that it's not about who or what said provider was or is now. It is the fact that it is very deceitful to not disclose such information to a client before he has made it to the appointment. It is P4P, clients are required to disclose specific information in order to see said provider and for her safety, some men are not comfortable seeing a female provider that was formally a TS, no matter how she may look or how good of a job the surgeon did.
There is a market out there for everyone, S&M, TS, Big boobs, Big ass, Post Op etc. Some clients do not care and would still see the provider anyway, that is their choice, but at the end of the day it is their choice. Key phrase being "it is their choice." You can't pick and choose what information should be disclosed, it is dishonest.
So...if she doesn't mention it in her ads, profile, and website, then...not good. She needs to be "up front" about it.
Good 2 cents worth their.
some men might feel very uncomfortable and would not choose this avenue of P4P.
There is a market out there for everyone, S&M, TS, Big boobs, Big ass, Post Op etc. Some clients do not care and would still see the provider anyway, that is their choice, but at the end of the day it is their choice. Key phrase being "it is their choice." You can't pick and choose what information should be disclosed, it is dishonest.
Ye men of honesty and integrity...I salute you. By dint of your fine qualities you strive
to fabricate a just sexual arena in which to enact your just and honest fantasies. As for you scoundrels
who have no need for such organization and are content to be met by creatures sizzling with passion
and blessed with beauty I say, along with the g.o.t. crowd...shame...shame...shame.
Quite an accomplishment.
Thanks for playing.
and I was hoping you could translate for me, because it sounded like just so much "blah blah blah" to me. and I too am pretty fluent in most dialects of moron. I think this is just a rather obscure dialect that neither of us have heard before.
1) LeMat has only 2 reviews, both of TS providers. I'm not judging that except to say it most likely means he believes he's more "enlightened" than you and I in judging this issue.
2) Ergo, we are knuckle-dragging Neanderthals simply for believing in truth in advertising.
So, yes, he's a moron.
Or maybe he's just a "moran."
Either way, he needs to take his GED English Composition 101.
"speak" moron, but I know it when I see it. I agree Le Mat is fluent.
...The Renaissance Pleasure Fair
Wow! I can't believe some of the things I'm reading ...
This is TER. Not some faculty forum from a decent university lol. Just a bunch of Horny guys and girls who may or may not know much about anything. I'm at peace with that. What I am surprised is the amount of acceptance I was able to get from most of you guys. for that I am grateful ☺️
but then again, as Russ so aptly just said. You haven't tried to convert me.
I have no desire to sleep with you, or even spoon with you like Jack lol, but if we ever find each other in the same town at the same time, I would be more than happy to buy you a couple of dozen drinks, and the same thing goes for our mutual friend in Boston although I can't condone her dishonesty in the way she advertised herself. Just because I can't condone her behavior doesn't mean I no longer like her as a person.
Sasha is a class act and great friend to her friends. I just hope that those friends appreciate what they got and do everything possible to hold on to her.
you are a snake indeed... you would not know what trust or friendship is
don;t even preach honesty
you are the dishonest person....who wants to spoon with you unless u pay them?shove the drinks up your...
you a rotten person
I have a short fuse when it comes to members hiding behind their alias and attacking other members. If you don't have the balls (no pun intended) to show yourself, then you should STFU. I have a low tolerance for cowards, and that is what you are.
It's pretty fucking obvious who you are, why do you continue to deceive?
Any chance of getting people to listen to your side just evaporated as it's plain you have no courage of your own convictions.
I am trying very hard not to make this ugly, but if you insist I think I have several hundred people who will attest that I have no problems with saying it like it is, no matter how ugly the outcome. Do you REALLY want to go there?
You should have posted under your handle or not post at all on this thread.
Props to Sasha for keeping it real and not getting bent out of shape.
There's a HUGE difference between a post-op TS selling herself as a (gag) Genetic Girl, and Sasha, who's a pre-op TS for guys who like "chicks with dicks." All the difference in the world.
Never tried to convert anyone, and were yourself. This is why you were so accepted in the community.
Regardless of color of skin, race, gender, sexual orientation or identity, religion or lack thereof.
Content of character is what is important, all of the rest is unimportant. We don't accept you for any other reasons than you are real, honest, respectful, accepting, tolerant... In a word, cool
... after some mind bending sex that night, she opened up and "came out" to me. Having no history with TSTG, I was very comfortable in that moment. I didn't need a explanation or chromosomal reassurance to feel ok about the situation, but I was surprisingly at peace with myself and her.
I saw her several times after and quite liked her personally and sexaully. Frankly, she was all woman. For me. I've had no interest in pursuing other TGs even if they were as attractive/beautiful/hottt. But I'd see her again without hesitation.
Sometime we just don't have an answer for things. I'm OK with that. And while I do my share of ball busting on this Board, I'm not here to create any drama or rain on what works for you ... and you and you.
Interesting topic that touches one of us. We each have our own reasons for being here and individual preferences. I've had the pleasure to explore more with the women here than in my prior life.
I've had great IRL sex partners but not until I'd met the diversity of personalities, talents and kink of many of my partners, have my own
limits been stretched. It's been a fun ride, and a wild one at times. And while I'm still not open for anything ... the essence of this post is aligned with how I've grown as a partner, a monger and a friend.
I enjoy this life and will continue while I can afford it or someone steals my heart away
I agree with full disclosure to clients. That is the obligation of the provider in my opinion.
honestly shocking indeed , i thought u had some kind of standards
Is someone advertising as a real woman who has had surgery to transform them into a woman and not letting guys know that s/he was a man deceptive? I've chatted with some TS who truly believe that postOp they are women. And I don't have a doubt they believe that. My question is should they, when in a P4P world make sure that a guy knows that they were not born a woman?
And it is totally obvious who you really are. You have behaved badly. The last thing you need to do is throw out bogus charges like this. Shame on you. Twice.
use your real handle and your alias on the same thread. I'm sure GaG knows this, so impossible for him to be Disney unless he likes 30-day suspensions.
and haven't had one since I stopped being a moderator, actually I never even had one UNTIL I became a moderator and admin insisted that I use an alias for any "provocative" posts I might make, that's when GaGamblerssmarterbrother was born.
BTW, it's quite easy to prove I don't post under an alias, or to see just how many alias posts anyone one on the top ten poster list makes. All you need to do is see how many posts they are credited with in the last 30,90 or 180 days, then do a message search under their handle for the same time frame and the difference between the two will show you how many alias posts they have made. If the numbers are the same, they have made ALL of their posts under their real handle. This isn't rocket science, it's pretty basic stuff, unless you are BSC and have lost all perspective after having being busted for all to see.
Then you are the one, that should look at your own standards.
You should have been upfront and let hobbyists, make up their own minds.
I am not a big fan of GaGambler, but he did the right thing.
If it's true, what you are saying about him.
Is someone advertising as a real woman who has had surgery to transform them into a woman and not letting guys know that s/he was a man deceptive? I've chatted with some TS who truly believe that postOp they are women. And I don't have a doubt they believe that. My question is should they, when in a P4P world make sure that a guy knows that they were not born a woman?
you only support Sasha because you are afraid to sound transphobic, and given this thread it is very convenient ...she could not possibly hide that beautiful dick of hers lol
using "she" is as ignorant and transphobic as it gets
your words don't count cause you have never met me and making a judgement
I could careless, what you think and can see why, you do not care about your deception.
You have to live with yourself and your business fraud.
The problem for you is pretending and taken advantage of certain clients in the past.
So don't play the victim now.
Also I enjoy, only real woman born female and don't waste my time with anything fake.
using "she" is as ignorant and transphobic as it gets
your words don't count cause you have never met me and making a judgement
-- Modified on 6/23/2016 10:26:44 PM
So these women have no recourse against there honor here. So I am ofeering my personal services here on this and any other subject on this board. Whether I am sitting next to Mr Walt Disney in a coffee shop or another gentleman in his place of work, or maybe a home depot or restaurant. I am good at what I do ladies. So PM me and let me know. I did notice Lamont didn't add to this thread. So stop bad mouthing women because deserve has nothing too do with it. Sincerely Taras Bolba
Is someone advertising as a real woman who has had surgery to transform them into a woman and not letting guys know that s/he was a man deceptive? I've chatted with some TS who truly believe that postOp they are women. And I don't have a doubt they believe that. My question is should they, when in a P4P world make sure that a guy knows that they were not born a woman?
Hh haaaaaa
"Be who you are Client pay for your time"
people using to believe that Earth is flat....people were burnt for claiming the Earth was actually round....
of course it is guys worst night mare to have a good time with a "man" without knowing it...everybody who is trolling and preaching honesty is insecure ...or don't have slightest clue about the issue , but they feel like they have pretty good idea so they type away....
i am gonna post only one post and i will not responding to negative comments as they are all the same: "oh she is dishonest" "she is tricked us into "gay" sex" "she is a man with no dick and a pair of tits" It all not true. If everybody says I am a chair, it does not make me a chair, does it?
especially i love when guys post shit like "i am ok with her sexuality/life style as long as she does not impose it on us" sexuality and gender is two separate issues, my gender is female and sexuality is pansexual....my life style is a lot of outdoorsy stuff and sit at home sometimes lol .that is my final answer
first of all, Nnoway, Gagambler and some others all betrayed my trust and turned the story around the way they see fit...they claim they are secure in themselves and their masculinity but their posts suggest otherwise
Nnoway has super high voice and super feminine, it is a not a surprise a guy like him would be the head of the pack of haters...he reads books all day and still is ignorant....he also kisses up to people, gains their trust and then stabs them...like he is doing with Sasha right now ...like he did with me...very dangerous person i made a mistake seeing in the beginning...
i am taking courses on positive thinking, so i am not going to let ignorant nasty people to bring me down
i am a woman, always been a woman, always will be a woman.....others think they know the truth better than me...
I never was a man, i do not see myself as ts, post op ts or anything like that. I am legally and anatomically female. It makes me uncomfortable if my sexual partner know ahead of the time as they get in their head and start looking for masculine feature i do not have, cannot get hard, overthing the situation (mrfisher story that he cannot stop talking about, i have heard it 20 times by now as he posts it in every relevant and irrelevant thread, maybe it had to be an older TS since he likes mature providers lol)....i want to be treated no different than any other woman...that is how it should be ...
i do not believe i was dishonest in any way, i am a woman and that is all there is to it... i refuse to live in what others see the truth...., my reviews are testament to that...guys booked me as a female, got service from a female and reviewed me as a female...the very few that were not happy decided to troll and bring me down, as well as providers who were jealous of my success trolled on the board and during meet and greet. The whole reason why i am in this mess right now is because i dared to defend myself against a female provider that thought she can trash me all she wants and i won't defend myself because she knows the rumor. But i cannot keep quite when a close friend is being attack or i am getting attacked on the board.
"honesty" does not pay off. i have realized in my situation was "loose loose" for all parties. Some people i trusted enough to open up to u , betrayed my trust. Moreover, I tried to experiment in my dating life and told people ahead of the time i got responses " i am not into men" " i am not into it" i got unmatched without explanations....i am not "it", i am a human being, i am a woman...i am not a man....NOBODY WANTED ME!!! NOBODY!! One even said if i still had a different part he would be interested as it is a fantasy, otherwise he does not want me cause if we get serious, i cannot make children for him....makes a lot of sense...right?
people pre-judged me and do not want me before even knowing me....that is more hurtful than living my life in fear of being killed in rage of some extremely "straight" guy...even if i make to 5 o'clock news, a lot of people will be happy because they think i am disgusting and dishonest person and should be punished , but i believe i was part of change...change needs to happen...it should be up to the provider how she wants to present herself and take risks accordingly...if people would not challenge society norms we would have a separate TER for AA providers and hobbyists right now and gagambler would not even be allowed on this board lol
i went trough my own self-discovery. I used to be prejudice against ethnic guys mostly because i was afraid they are more likely to overreact or not understand me if they ever found out...., but then i opened up my mind and met a lot of nice people...even dated indian guy for a short while, and my best friend is asian and left me a review...i realized i cannot be a hypocrite....they treated me better than some white guys...i changed...i used to think i only like guys till i tried TS and female providers and their genitalia tasted just like clean human skin...
i am typing this with tear in my eyes....i put on a strong persona on board, but i am still very vulnerable and sensitive person...
i had a good run, met some amazing people...and very few douche bags who managed to make my life living hell through this board...and people who won't see me because of what other people think are missing out on a beautiful WOMAN who is nice inside and hot in bedroom...
i am a fuckin legend and trolls cannot take it away from me...i pray for them and hope they realize they are wrong....they think they have the right to know, but there is nothing to know...the truth is i am a WOMAN...present is what counts...
to the person who PMed every person who left me a nice review and told them shit about me....what was the point? they had a good time and did not think much of anything other than beautiful woman...
it felt good for 8 months to be "normal" and treated like a normal woman, making love as a normal woman...it is coming to an end thanks to the trolls, but i have new beginning ahead of me that is more positive i hope...thankfully i have a lot of people in my real life and in the hobby who still only see me as a woman and that won't change. and i bow to them because they have emotional intelligence that some here will never achieve...
i do hope that 100 years into the future people will read this and laugh that this was even an issue to discuss....it will be like discussing if black people should have a right to use restroom with white people..
It must have been hard to share this. I am sorry some decided to harass you. It was not right to do. Please know I wish you well. Somehow I do not find it surprising GaGambler is harassing you. You are not the only one he has harassed. People have the right to their secrets unless they are harming someone why out them? Not being born what you are now is not harming anyone. As I said, I don't think hiding your birth status was the best choice, in part because of this and the possibility someone could turn violent, but you have the right to protect yourself and live your life as you see fit. In the ideal world this would not be an issue, but this isn't that world.
Give me a link to a post where he is harrasing her!
I did speak to her in private, and I told her in private EXACTLY what I said here in public. The only promise I made was to not reveal anything told to me in confidence. Can someone, anyone PLEASE point out a single thing I have said that isn't already out in the public domain. Now she is blowing up my inbox insisting I am Walt Disney. BSC and a liar, I think retirement is definitely the best choice she can make at this point.
Droopydog is just still butthurt over me ragging on him for being a humorless fuck who makes every room he is in happier simply by leaving.
But this is hardly the first time he has been accused of harassment. I have seen him harass others. He even went around telling others I was dangerous minus any facts. He has a history. So when I have heard the accusation before, and seen such minor case of it myself, it really does not make the claim unbelievable. So no I can't prove shit, but this isn't a legal verdict, just a feeling of whom I believe based on past behavior and others making the exact same claim. History matters.
I do most of my talking in public, I don't feel the need to take things back channel and "harass" people away from the public eye. I dare you to find a single person I have harassed that way, and then I dare you to find a single harassing post of mine in this thread.
I was the harassed, not the harasser. I can't help it if OL chose to deceive her clients and I also can't help the fact that she asked me not to comment here and I refused, to remain silent would have been tacit approval of what she had done and I told her privately and publicly that I would not condone deception of her clients just because she knew damn well that guys wouldn't be beating a path to her door if they knew she was once a man. The one thing I did honor was to not disclose any of the facts about her that she told me in confidence. I did agree to that and I plan on honoring my word, even if she has gone BSC in the meantime.
I don't harass, I do bust balls, even the balls of the ball less, her by her own decision, you by simply never having any.
You are totally wrong about GaG's role in this (as is "Beautiful Person," who has only proven herself to be ugly). I can't reveal how I know this but if perfectstorm says you're wrong, please bear in mind he has more credibility than just about anyone on this site.
Your post above is a false accusation and an embarrassment. You should withdraw it and skulk off for a while.
I can understand why she has latched onto this fantasy. It's a convenient smokescreen for her. Why did you do it? Obviously, you have a history with GaG and have been nursing a grudge, so perhaps this is payback time? As I said, it's beneath you.
He has admitted to saying backchannel to multiple people that I was dangerous. Something he claims he doesn't do by the way. He has used my rape as a weapon repeatedly even going on about it after I left the boards for a while. So I believed BP because he harassed me.
I know you and perfectstorm to be decent people with credibility. I will accept in this case he might not be guilty of harassment. I will not withdraw the claim that GaGambler has harassed people in the past including me. I will admit this may not be the case this time. But GaGambler is not innocent of the crime of harassment and unlike him with his going on about me being dangerous behind my back, I am saying it to the whole damn world, GaGambler does in fact harass people. He claims he doesn't, but it isn't true.
Is this payback? I don't know, is telling it as it is payback? Regardless I am not retracting the truth he harassed me. I am not taking back multiple people has accused him of harassment as it is true. Multiple people has accused him of such. I will accept it may be reversed in this case. That is as far as I go. To go farther would require me to lie.
Maybe I will skulk off for a while.
Which is not to say he's a fan of yours, LOL. And, to my knowledge, he has never truly harassed anyone either. Perhaps we have different definitions of harassment?
In any case, he's more victim here than anything else.
Oh, well....
Here is the link. Had to edit do to link error.
-- Modified on 6/24/2016 9:52:16 AM
Gagambler screwed me up big time...now he is a feeling like a big masculine man out here
I do have a trusting nature and I pay the price of often
..but in the shit show like this you can really tell who is actually super nice and who are really bullies...I am gonna block gambler don't care for his stupid posts ...he is a phony and a show off...
Thank you. You are amazing.
-- Modified on 6/24/2016 6:49:37 AM
by posting with his handle and his alias on the same thread. Were that the case, by now TER would have long since flipped his alias and probably suspended his posting privileges.
The fact that it hasn't happened means GaG and W.D are NOT the same.
Einstein.
Walter.Disney, and GaGambler are both handles, not a handle and an alias. Still that is a serious TER violation and as a former moderator and long time TER member, GaG is well aware of that, and while he has sometimes been a critic of TER, he certainly is not looking to get banned! Not to mention that I believe there are some people here who know exactly who Walter is, and many who know GaGambler personally.
Another point: Not only is GaG not harassing her, neither is Disney! He had one short post in this thread. (The OP) All he did was start a thread with an honest question. Many folks shared their opinions. Isn't that what a discussion board is?
It wouldn't matter to me. I understand why a person would conceal such a thing. I think it is personal. There is also a lot of hate out their for people outside of the norms, sad to say. I know a person who is trans-gendered and she has been assaulted for not fitting in the more typical male/female norms.
In my opinion it is not wise to conceal it. Some people will react badly if they find out they bedded someone who once had a cock. And it is dishonest to not be upfront about this knowing many wouldn't chose to see you knowing the truth.
At the same time this hobby has tons of dishonesty. Guys lying to their wives. Ladies using photoshoped/old photos, lies about age. Fact is this really isn't different. Of course I would walk if the Photos aren't accurate. It is dishonest, but it is far from the only lie told in this game. If I found out after no harm after, no harm no foul. Is like if I found out after I left happy her photos are ten years old, if I can't tell does it matter? No, it does not, at least to me. While genetically she might not be a woman, in her soul she likely is. And She should be treated as such.
Funny thing I will admit to being curious about post op trans women. If one came to town I might see one. Likely not because it is more of a curiosity then a desire and wouldn't want to offend if the desire never came. That would be awkward for the both of us.
Trans-gendered people have a rough road not quite fitting social norms. I certainly understand why a woman born with male parts or the other way around would chose to be less than honest. I would not overly condemn such a choice. I don't feel it is the right choice but it is a tough one. It isn't that much different then hiding being a sex worker or lying to ones wife while bedding those same sex workers. There is real life negative consequences for being honest beyond losing a few clients.
-- Modified on 6/24/2016 12:30:38 AM
The first time I was in the presence of a transgender woman I found her extremely attractive and exciting to be near, but it raises questions. She was a beautiful woman, but she had a cock and balls and standing next to her hearing her talk dirty to me smelling her perfume gave you a hard on, It raises questions about your own sexuality.
Never is this more clear than in the case of post op transgender women. Imagine a beautiful woman fully equipped as a female, she is soft and feminine and graceful and seductive and she smells great and she gives you the blow job of a lifetime and you climax in her mouth, Then she lies against you and offers you greek (your favorite) and she wiggles and squirms and you have s second climax and then with a skillful hand job and deep kissing a third. You leave very satisfied.
THEN you find out she is transgender with an X and Y chromosome. If you are like many men, you could get very upset. You have just climaxed three time with a "guy". Are you gay? Are you really the manly man you always thought you were, for heavens sakes?
This is what makes this question so BIG. You can have for all the world a great sexual experience with a demonstrably talented and beautiful woman, but that Y chromosome turns the experience into a new problem for you as you question yourself.
I don't have an answer but I understand the problem for many men. Standing next to my first tall blond beautiful transgender woman, my excitement did not bother me, but I respect those who might be upset or turned off by it. Our image of ourselves is very tied to our sexuality (Sex is about everything but sex, said Freud)
Also I am starting to see why some providers think it's okay, to deceive and hide information.
The last couple of comments endorses deceiving in this hobby.
If you have confusion or questions about your own sexuality, that is your personal business.
It's a lot of other men, that don't don't deal with that and know exactly what they want real females not pretenders with dicks.
This is about deceptive business practices of certain providers and not being upfront with the hobby site.
So to make it in to something else is, helping them with their business fraud.
Never is this more clear than in the case of post op transgender women. Imagine a beautiful woman fully equipped as a female, she is soft and feminine and graceful and seductive and she smells great and she gives you the blow job of a lifetime and you climax in her mouth, Then she lies against you and offers you greek (your favorite) and she wiggles and squirms and you have s second climax and then with a skillful hand job and deep kissing a third. You leave very satisfied.
THEN you find out she is transgender with an X and Y chromosome. If you are like many men, you could get very upset. You have just climaxed three time with a "guy". Are you gay? Are you really the manly man you always thought you were, for heavens sakes?
This is what makes this question so BIG. You can have for all the world a great sexual experience with a demonstrably talented and beautiful woman, but that Y chromosome turns the experience into a new problem for you as you question yourself.
I don't have an answer but I understand the problem for many men. Standing next to my first tall blond beautiful transgender woman, my excitement did not bother me, but I respect those who might be upset or turned off by it. Our image of ourselves is very tied to our sexuality (Sex is about everything but sex, said Freud)
To me it's not about gender bashing, it's about a client's right to know and then making the decision to see the person. Over the last few days I've asked some of my clients how they would feel if they found out afterwards and all of them said it would make them angry, and they would feel betrayed and upset. Some said worse than that.
This is a service biz of sorts and on the matter of GG or post op trans, Honesty is key or and disaster is eminent. I'd hate to see a lady get physically hurt because some guy found out afterwards then he was with a post op trans. This kind of thing can still happen in 2016 if you deceive the wrong guy.
I know a post op with a man made vag feels she is a woman in every way. That's not the issue here IMO. It's about how the client will feel if this kind of deception happens and it's discovered. This is about the ability to make money in this biz, and I truly believe a certain lady was putting her income making potential ahead of how her clients would feel they knew they were being deceived on this VERY personal intimate subject.
This could have dire consequences for the lady in question.
Steph xoxo
This is a service biz of sorts and on the matter of GG or post op trans, Honesty is key or and disaster is eminent. I'd hate to see a lady get physically hurt because some guy found out afterwards then he was with a post op trans. This kind of thing can still happen in 2016 if you deceive the wrong guy.
I know a post op with a man made vag feels she is a woman in every way. That's not the issue here IMO. It's about how the client will feel if this kind of deception happens and it's discovered. This is about the ability to make money in this biz, and I truly believe a certain lady was putting her income making potential ahead of how her clients would feel they knew they were being deceived on this VERY personal intimate subject.
This could have dire consequences for the lady in question.
Steph xoxo
No one has any right to deceive another person, especially under these circumstances! We all have right to sleep with what we are comfortable with, be it P4P, or in the civey world!
She mocked my triple D's the other day, on the Boston board, literally attacked and put me down! I may have big fake boobs but I have I integrity, which goes a long way in this business! She is a beautiful lady, I just don't understand the need to lie!
Not to mention her personal safety, if some guy loses it, after finding out!! Just be honest, in whatever world you play!
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Anyway, here's my 666 cents: I understand why a post-op trans woman would want to enjoy just being a "regular" woman. I also understand why some straight men might have a problem going there. For safety's sake, I fall on the side of truth in advertising. I also think that the truth in advertising (honesty) will create more respect for the trans community. Respect and trust make people more open-minded. Open-minded straight men could conceivably experiment and "cross the line," much like I did. In the end, that will be much more of a help for the whole LGBTQ community than deception.
I heard the rumor awhile back and not a single guy, reviewed her on this, until recently. Was it because of fear of retaliation, embarrassment, or whatever the reason. They allowed her to carry the deception for as long as she did.
I see reviews where a guy points out a pimple on a ladies tush, yet you guys kept quiet...honesty and integrity starts at the top.
So, while everyone is bashing her, keep that in mind.
-- Modified on 6/24/2016 7:33:00 AM
From what I've heard TER wouldn't allow reviews that mention OL's real TS status through.
you should be honest about your bad breath before bookings the sessions
i still feel violated many months later and cannot take enough showers when i think of you
stop preaching "honesty"
the funny thing, i have people in my life that really love and appreciate me, you only have this board,where others like yourself support you, but they won't be seeing your UTR providers after what you did....
You big mouth and your vivid imagination got you into so much unnecessary trouble already and you still keep on!
-- Modified on 6/24/2016 2:39:35 PM
To compare her deceitfulness to someone having bad breath (if it's even true, which I doubt) is stupid beyond belief. Besides, if she really didn't like your breath why didn't she offer you some mouthwash or a mint. Most provides have some in their bathroom
This poor creature is a train wreck and is perhaps suffering from some post-op mental strain. I, too, strongly suggest she seek help or someone close to her have an intervention.
you should also warn providers that you are not a man despite possibly having balls, which i do not remember seein
You just don't know how to stop lying.
This is what you said earlier in this very thread:
i am gonna post only one post and i will not responding to negative comments as they are all the same: "oh she is dishonest" "she is tricked us into "gay" sex" "she is a man with no dick and a pair of tits"
Yet you continue to attack. We are trying to help you - find your closest friend and tell him or her you need them.
Someone rescue this poor soul.
I tried to submit a review that said (s)he was a post op TS but TER would not allow it so I had to modify it. This, despite the fact that TER has a category for post op TER. They said the provider was advertising as a female so I had to change to a female and remove any mention of post op TS.
So, while I appreciate your thought, reviewers do not share any responsibility.
And if her friends are reading this; she needs some help. She is a very angry person who viciously attacks anyone who even slightly disagrees with her (or sometimes she perceives is a disagreement) - I know, she did it to me. If you're her friend, gather other friends for an intervention before she hurts herself.
it is just words coming from people 95% i have not met...5% that met and did not have a good time ,tough luck, it is part of being in the hobby.......i am a legend...who cares? the reason why i attacked all the hater and brought the whole thing down is because i do not care...i am a chess player and MBA...all these was planned out...i am beautiful, smart and a nice person...i can please men, women and ts......you guys are nasty on the inside, i feel bad for providers who will sleep with you without know who you really...you are the dishonest ones not me...i have an amazing people who think i am an awesome woman)bunch of alias fobbills, erin's alias...you guys keep on saying same things over and over, i get it, i do not agree....you are boring people..
Because of your blinded anger you totally miss the point. We are trying to help you because we see a person who is unstable and screaming for help. Please, find someone you trust and seek the help you need.
I'm telling the truth - I won't say it again. Over and out.
-- Modified on 6/24/2016 6:49:08 PM
You forgot that she's "a legend" Wtf...
She is attacking the wrong people though!!! I have been following this thread today and I'm damned near speechless. People that are trying to be understanding and nice, she's rude and attacks.
To keep on being so vile....well it makes it all that more disturbing. She's dogged out ladies for their boobs, their age, breath, and even no balls to one of the guys??? Really? These ladies are not deceiving their clients! I think the conceit and deceit have both gone to the poor girls head!
I seriously think OL should really listen to the ones on here that say to get some help. This is really sad 
OL there is absolutely nothing wrong with you being YOURSELF but from reading your post, it seems you are really lost honey. I can see the need to vent but this is beyond sad
I just started a new thread with this so if you have something to say on this you may want to respond there.
Maybe you guys should allow for an option of "TS woman" or something like that or even "TS Woman Pre-op" and "TS Woman Post-op"? I have little doubt that TS Sasha would also prefer to be referred to as a "woman".
Look even in TS slang there is such a thing as GG, which like most of you know stands for "Genetic Girl" and refers to women who are not Transgender. That means that even Transgender community recognizes that there is a difference between women who were biologically born as women and those who became women post-op ....or stayed as women pre-op for that matter.
If it is so important for Transgender community to be seen as women (or men for that matter) why not grant it to them but specify that they're TS (or TG) type of women and by implication not GGs?
If somebody gets confused under such definitions then we probably have an extraterrestrial in our fold.
With this OL will have a chance not only to feel as a woman but also to still be seen as a woman by others and those of us who prefer GGs would have a way not to be confused.
Right now Transgender issues are front and center in the country. I understand why TER would try to appear sensitive to them. But by misrepresenting or grouping all women whether GGs or TS under one roof TER not only opens itself up to possible civil and even criminal litigation but it also facilitates situations like this which I'm sure TER would rather avoid.
So TER: if you incorporate a word "Woman" into your dropdown choices under Transsexual you would achieve both objections and as we say in the country of my origin: the wolves would be fed and the sheep remains whole.
What do you guys all think?
If people generally agree with what I just said here maybe we should start a separate thread on this and flush the topic out without members going bananas at each other?
Maybe Sasha could also post it on the TS board and get TS community's input too?
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I'll be charitable here and grant there MAY be an aspect of OL wanting to identify as a woman. But I'll guarantee you the main part of her motivation was money and the guarantee that masquerading as a "GG" would get her lots more dates than identifying herself as a post-op TS girl. Your suggesting does nothing to solve that problem.
wow, what a shit storm my one review created.
Never expected it. Didnt want it.
wont go public, as privacy can be and will be respected
pm me if i can answer any questions
i may get into the weeds on my responses
-- Modified on 6/25/2016 12:30:13 AM
Just because you did not have courage to transition even though you look feel sound and have female demeanor it does not mean you have to take it out on others
You admitted to me that you wish you were a woman but you are afraid of the society
Pretty sad that you are so unhappy with yourself that you bring others down...
i forgive you for torment, i do hope one day you finally come to terms with yourself ...
this thread is not about me, it is about you really
for now you have this board to give your purpose in life it seems
i am moving to new beginnings, and i have a lot of opportunities ahead of me because i am a nice person actually, i cannot say the same about you
But there is a time and place for everything. TER and the hobby in general aren't it for that. We can't forget that what we gentlemen and ladies do is at its essence a business transaction. It is probably one of the very first contracts ever entered into since folks were living in caves. Contracts entered into under false pretenses are void. If I was on a date with a person who advertises as a woman and turns out isn't, they shouldn't expect to get paid. Of course I may not find out until long after wards, so then I would just feel ripped off by the deception.
I have always supported the LGBT community and have friends, colleagues and co workers who are openly so. The key word here is openly. It also means honest. Anything less is demeaning to all involved. I get that there are huge self image issues with those that decide to go transgender. But this is business and is not the appropriate venue for self therapy. As always, honesty is always the best policy.
Is someone advertising as a real woman who has had surgery to transform them into a woman and not letting guys know that s/he was a man deceptive? I've chatted with some TS who truly believe that postOp they are women. And I don't have a doubt they believe that. My question is should they, when in a P4P world make sure that a guy knows that they were not born a woman?
Of the lengths some will go to deceive other members in the TER community all for the own greed
and the power all almighty Benjamin has on them and what they will do to others to get it.
I am glad you posted this it needed to be told so providers know the backlash they will face for
trying to deceive everyone here. Let this be a lesson to others it is much better for the longevity of
your business to never attempt this kind of deception again because it always comes out in the end.
...and pretend as if they don't or lie about being bisexual...ect (shrugs) I guess at the end of the day a Hotdog is Hotdog to the ladies right? and a Fish Sandwich is a Fish Sandwich to the guys right
One would think any kind of deception is not cool on anybody's part, however why is it acceptable when Men do it, but not when Real Women or TS Women when it comes to p4p (or anything else for that matter)?
Your comparison is bogus. Lying to oneself is one thing. Lying to other people is quite another. Especially when it's business.
Just be aware that guys will "pretend" they didn't know "The Tea" I guess just to have a reason to hurt a TGirl. Plenty of men in this lifestyle or in just dealing with Ts's have flat out lied about not knowing what was up. Going to meet up, get down both ways and for whatever reason deny they even knew. Its tricky business for either side, but don't always believe every guy "claiming" he didn't know. A man made V-Jay-jay looks TOTALLY differently than a Natural one and if the look is not as obvious, the smell or there lack of is a dead give away.
I'm just saying
The sad part is you just can't see how truly dangerous this kind of deception can be. I mean would
it take a guy going completely crazy and beating the deceiver to death to open your eyes.
Would it really take a tragedy ? Lying and physically changing ones male genitalia to female genitalia
through surgery are two completely different things. And in this case the said person did both of these things. The person had a choice to be honest and chose not to be.
The ultimate lie and deception inflicted on the TER community
Nobody wants to see any type of tragedy on any member in the TER community but the said
person here really increased the odds of such a thing happening. All by reasons and a choice only
known to them. But yet still does not seem to feel what they did was this wrong.