Politics and Religion

you don't buy the human shield claims? A picture is worth 1000 Arab lies...
DoctorGonzo 106 Reviews 1491 reads
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toondin3439 reads


A regular story from Gaza was Israeli's taking fire from Hamas and Islamic Jihad troops near or in the midst of civilians, making sure the civilians were in the crossfire. In one NY Times story, a teenager with Islamic Jihad bragged of firing on Israeli troops and then ducking into civilian homes. When he was criticized for this, he said that those who'd lost family members should be delighted, because their dead loved ones were now martyrs. I was always under the confused impression that to be a martyr, one had to chose to die, but apparently, Islamic Jihad and Hamas consider that requirement to be moot. This is called "martyrdom by statistic."

When Egypt and Israel discussed a truce, nobody from Gaza showed up. Why? Because Hamas and Islamic Jihad thought that they were winning. Hamas was elected in the last Palestinian elections promising that they would defeat Israel and then kill every Jew in the Middle East. And hell, the Palestinians voted for them by a large majority. Hamas is following through with its plan, hardly a secret, which is to provoke Israel into war through attacks on Israeli civilians or through kidnapping of soldiers. Then when Israel attacks back, use helpless Arab civilians, preferably children, women or elderly, as human shields. Israeli soldiers then have the choice of either  killing 100 civilians for every 1 enemy soldier killed, or hunker down until they are completely surrounded and have no choice but to surrender. Except that Hamas showed in the first few hours of the battle that they aren't going to let any Israeli soldiers surrender, thinking that torturing and murdering Israeli soldiers would escalate Israel's response even more.

So, the IDF had two choices, kill thousands of civilians or lose. The current ceasefire will be temporary, with war and civilian deaths to start up again soon.

Dead Arab civilians are central to Hamas' plan, the more dead the better. It has created situations where the media would thoughtlessly report where civilians were hiding from the fighting, and Hamas would then set up a mortar emplacement there to draw counter-fire into those civilians.

Hamas thinks that if it can show Israeli killing enough innocent Arabs, then Arab citizens will rise up and push their governments into annihilating Israel. This plan is defective, as Hamas should know, because Israel has a large nuclear arsenal and a willingness to use it. If the Arab states invaded Israel, every Arab capital (including the holy sites in Mecca) would become heaps of glassy, radioactive slag. Those states would use their armies to attack their own people before they attacked Israel. Hamas overlooks this, showing that there a no strategy has holes so large that fanaticism can't hide them. Until Hamas is convinced totally that they have a losing strategy, they will keep on provoking Israel and will bring "statistical" martyrdom on their people. This war won't end until the moment that happens, not before.

Israel, meanwhile, knows that it can win; it's just that they'd rather not govern Gaza.  

No voters have ever screwed themselves like the people of Gaza have. They voted by a very large margin for a political party that promised to get thousands of their children killed by Israel. If there was ever a campaign promise that should have been broken, it was that one.

Even so, what's happening to the Gazans is not exactly justice, but what would be is bringing the leaders of Hamas, Hezbollah, and Islamic Jihad up on Crimes Against Humanity for engaging in combat wearing civilian clothes and using civilians as human shields. That's the cause of all that suffering, and Israel did not do it.

Many_Aliases1885 reads

I just do not buy the human shield smokescreen. That has always been the excuse for killing children.
Do you expect the militants to round themselves up, and put targets on their backs and say "here we are, kill us all"?
Look, what if Mexico was a powerful military machine and occupied South Texas, cutting off water supplies, electricity, and food at will. They would bulldoze houses, and kill our children.
What would a Texan do? Think about that! Try to put yourself in the Palistinian's shoes.
There needs to be a balance here. Israel is not an innocent peace loving country.

Hamas rounds up women and children like cattle and have them surround a home Israel has announced it intends to bomb... so rather than get its civilians to safety, Hamas cowardly  hides behind the skirts of women and the smiles of children.

These are the animals you would make peace with. Barbarians and thugs with no conscience or goal other than destruction murder and annihilation.

Be joyful you have the Jews and Israel to take the brunt of their evil. If Israel and the Jews fall, you and your family are next.

One-sided indeed.

-- Modified on 1/27/2009 9:35:40 AM

more civilians used as human shields by the evil barbarian animals of Hamas.

-- Modified on 1/27/2009 9:42:05 AM

toondin1690 reads


They'll lose after they do a huge amount of damage.

Many_Aliases3795 reads

That versus several hundred dead children recently who were cowering in their homes, in ambulances, in UN compounds, etc. They were not shields, they were TARGETS.

they were not cowering in their homes because the Israeli's targeted them, they were cowering because Hamas ORDERED them there as shields to protect the bomb factory underneath after Israel announced they were bombing in 7 minutes.

هل الجمال القضيب\ lie through your teeth some more. Ambulances used to ferry bombs and homicide bombers into Israel under the guize of medical aid... setting up mobile rocket launchers inside UN compounds firing and then moving like scum cowards forcibly leaving the innocent to become pawns in their evil propaganda campaign, you هل يجهل asswipe

Many_Aliases1174 reads

First of all, what is this asswipe crap? You always seem to resort to name calling when someone disagrees with you. So let me give you a resounding fuck you!
Secondly, no one needs to see the FOREIGN languages written out on the board. Speak English!
You are so blinded by your rage, you are pathetic.
When the UN compound was bombed, it was not being used as a rocket launch area. Even Hamas would not be stupid enough to launch rockets when there are citizens of other countries there. There was not a single witness to back up your claim. Not one!
You know it, and I know it. At least try to be honest with yourself.

well ok, asswipe was supposed to be in Arabic script as well. My bad.

Funny how there are no witnesses to back up my claim, but there were certainly many witnesses to back up Hamas claims of Israeli massacres.
Why, in the Jenin massacre alone, over 150 corpses photographed by the media for dissemination inb the United States showing the brutality of the Israeli's were interviewed several days later as eyewitnesses to the slaughter on al-Arabiyah television.

Allah Be Praised!!! They came back to life!!

The idea they may have posed as corpses to perpetuate the lies and propaganda of Hamas and their Arab masters simply is not possible, is it? Naw, why would they do that? got an answer for me, Sweetpea?

toondin2067 reads


and put targets on their backs, signaling that they are there, but what they have been doing is deliberately putting civilians in the crossfire. Of that, I am convinced.

I never said that Israel is an innocent, peace-loving country, and no, I don't believe it is. And whether the Palestinians in Gaza are justified in fighting Israel is another matter, but desperation and despair do give rise to some very perverse strategies, and that's illustrated here.

The point I was making was that creating large civilian casualties was central to Hamas' strategy against Israel, and this isn't any huge secret. The main barrier to knowing this is that people, including in the press, can't believe it. The many cases of it happening are then treated as isolated examples.

RightwingUnderground1687 reads

theatrically stage a deliberate Israeli attack on a Red Cross Ambulance.

I do not defend Hamas is any way.  They have been provoking Israel and will not stop as long as Israel exist.  

But Israels is not completely free of blame.  Israel continues to build settlements and encroach on Palestinian villages.

Both sides need back off and realize they have to share the land.  Israel needs to pull its settlers out of the West Bank and Gaza, and the Palestinian Authority needs to prevent the rocket attacks and suicide bombings on Israel.  

"Israel needs to pull its settlers out of the West Bank and Gaza,"

They did a complete withdrawl from Gaza a few years ago. The result? Hamas and the like were able to move closer to the border so their rockets would land deeper inside Israel.

"the Palestinian Authority needs to prevent the rocket attacks and suicide bombings on Israel."

Terrific. Problem is they've shown they are unable and/or unwilling to do so.

So what is a more realistic plan?

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