I do know that you can't make an omelet without cracking some eggs, but in the meantime, I think the status quo is not such a bit state of affairs, though obviously decriminalization would be much better.
I'm going to touch on this subject in a longer narrative because I haven't heard it discussed like this before. No kid gloves, no pulling punches. Just my .02
Any remediation of the laws that prohibit prostitution will not just surface and make the hobby a hobby. No, it will take years, and will only happen when it gets mainstream coverage. Unfortunately, there will be the requisite incorrect information, fear of the unknown and God-fearing proliferation of what others should do with their lives.
The concept that bad advertising beats no advertising holds some water here. The topic needs to become visible at the state and national level. My concern is who besides us, those within the hobby, really give a fuck. We are such a small segment of the population, will any political powerhouses expect to generate any political capital by championing our cause or a change in perception of the hobby resulting in new legislation? I would doubt that many would see any value in being attached to the cause.
Let's face reality here, what we see as normal, much of the rest of the planet sees as deviant. Shit, if you try to feed the hungry children in this country, there's a better chance of starting a civil war than a discussion of the topic.
Well, I'm for any articles on the subject. Even the lousy ones, because these will continue the dialogue with more logical and practical (certainly in our eyes) rebuttals forthcoming to bring this the attention that we selfishly want.
If I were a betting man, and at one time I was, I'm not sure there are enough people involved or vested to develop the sense of urgency needed for the movers and shakers of legislation to champion OUR cause.
OK ... NOW HERE'S THE RUB ....
That is unless we can increase the political pressure on politicians by broadening our grassroots efforts to include our wives and SOs, our friends and coworkers and others inside our social network to join us in supporting our cause.Uhhhhh .... not happening?
Let's be real, this is in our own most selfish interest to P4P without consequence. I'M ALL FOR IT! But won't most if not all of us want to stay in the closet and let someone else do all the heavy lifting?
There's a good reason to stay below the surface ... would we come out of the closet if prostitution was legal, decriminalized or even RECOMMENDED?
Would we all then give up our handles and aliases and just run down to the local pussy parlor for a qwik fix. I think it was Naomi that said she'd retire if prostitution was legal ... I get her drift.
So while I wholeheartedly am behind anything that'll keep my ass out of jail for getting laid whenever and with whomever I please, I'm going to continue my pursuit of anonymity and hedonism as carefully as possible. And while I just love variety, I also enjoy the safety and intimacy of that one special partner I've been lucky enough to find over the years here in the hobbyland.
Play safe. Have fun. REPEA
and that is, that the reactionary forces will threaten the increasingly shaky status quo that we now have thus leading to some needless pain and suffering without any real guarantee that we'd see success eventually.
I do know that you can't make an omelet without cracking some eggs, but in the meantime, I think the status quo is not such a bit state of affairs, though obviously decriminalization would be much better
I do know that you can't make an omelet without cracking some eggs, but in the meantime, I think the status quo is not such a bit state of affairs, though obviously decriminalization would be much better.
As you say, if the hobby was decriminalized I would still be laying low. At a public meeting I would be very in favor of decriminalization and urge my friends to join me, but if asked, my wife and children sitting next to me, I would finesse the answer in a way to indicate that of course I never indulge but I will not stoop to a denial because I think it is none of anyone else business. (Incidentally, during a brief stint as an elected official --I was roped into it by the promise that I wouldn't win and then I had to serve out a full 4 year term-- I gave that same kind of answer when I was asked it I was gay while testifying at a committee of the state senate in favor of a gay rights bill that still has not fully passed now, 20 years later.)
Here's my thought: This country has more people incarcerated per capita than any other country on the face of the Earth. As an amateur historian I can tell you we also have more people incarcerated (I am not making this up) per capita than were incarcerated in all the jails and prisons and concentration camps in Nazi Germany in 1937!!!! There has got to be something very wrong with many of our criminal laws not only those which criminalize prostitution.
I am not in favor of decriminalization for selfish reasons (What are the chances really that I will be arrested?) but for reasons of justice and respect for all of us. Nothing that does not actively harm our neighbor is the business of the government at any level. Certainly not the profession of a large number of perfectly normal independent women and men and those in transition between. How dare Pennsylvania or New Jersey or any state or city condemn as criminals some of the fine women (including those in transition to womanhood) that I have met and enjoyed and respected for the fine people they are.
All of us should be actively outraged.
-- Modified on 5/8/2016 7:11:31 AM
Outraged, of course. But that and $2 will almost get u a cup of coffee ... the issue is we're all preaching to a very small and openly horny choir.
And please, there can be no mention of anal, TS/TG or doggy ... and Asian cowgirl ... would that be politically incorrect? insensitive? ... my cock doesn't find it at all insensitive .... quite the opposite
o, decriminalization is not going to happen over night.
Yes, I would retire if it becomes decriminalized.
The real work ----is addressing the Old Programming that SEX is DIRTY------
Religious institutions have taught us
that SEX is something Bad.
Civilian ladies have learned to attach Shame and Guilt to the vagina.
They have so many emotional anchors attached to Sex/ Vagina/ Clitoris that they have not learned to totally and completely enjoy their Pure Pleasure organ, their clitoris, without Fear and Judgement.
They, like escorts, use the vagina to CONTROL and get what they want, all the
while appointing themselves better than escorts, and not allowing our Freedom to use our vagina in whatever capacity that we feel is in Our best interest.
SEX WORK is in any kind of demand, because civilian wives/ girlfriends
do not have SEX in Perspective.
It is for Their Pleasure, not to be used as a tool for Control.
They've attached so much more to the act. Guys, for the most part, do not.
(Some) Men learn to demean women for using their femininity to get what they want.
Religion will back them up. And, civilian ladies follow like sheep, enjoying having guidelines to go by.
Religion programs/ CONTROLS people to believe SEX is only for making babies.
Anyone else having Pleasure will be headed to Hell.
The idea of SEX is changing. It is Evolving.
It is not just for making babies anymore.
Ladies are learning that it is for their Pure Pleasure and Health.
When civilian ladies learn to demand their Pleasure and look at their clitoris with new eyes, (yes, look at it),
they will start easing up on their JUDGEMENTS of the porn and escort world and see it for what it is…
Entertainment to facilitate an Orgasm, and, that's Healthy!
When they(civilian ladies) start enjoying Orgasms, without guilt and shame, and as much as guys,
Everyone is going to be Healthier and Happier.
Then--- the escort world will change
...I'm sure that you could help to open them up to their true orgasmic capabilities 
SUPERB post---you are absolutely spot on with everything you said!! Sadly--while I agree that things are slowly changing there is still one HELL of a long road to travel--and the type of societal progress needed to significantly change perspectives on a large scale will not happen in my lifetime!! (As one of my ATF providers once said to me--"Sexual repression is the engine that drives our business." A FRIGGIN MEN!!
Many good points on this topic as it is one we have seen here over and over again. Don't you believe our society represses it's true feelings about sex? Let's face it, our divorce rate is sky high and today, many young people don't even choose to be married. Both must have something to do with our inability to be monogamous.
Yet, our society has forced us to suppress this reality and develop a sort of "underground" presence. In business and family settings, some of us (no, most of us) play along with this societal pressure and create a fascade of monogamy.
Watched a 60 minutes clip a while back about a Scandinavian country where people openly had multiple partners and children from multiple partners. One can see both the up and downside of this kind of arrangement, even without societal pressure.
Another reason could be our biological, although often subconscious drive to protect the propagation of our species which we "perceive" to require a certain social construct.
IMHO, just a couple of reasons why it may take quite a while for our society to coalesce.
I believe that is the main reason we see similar patterns of sexual mores worldwide. Love, possessiveness, jealousy, lust, mate guarding, duplicity, fixation, ... these are the tensions between the individual drive to survive and the social compromise that benefits the individual.
There aren't societies with a wildly promiscuous historical past because such lifestyles didn't produce a robust society.
The degree of social cohesion in a small tribe in the distant past where they were always on the edge of survival, was a determining factor in whether they lived or died.
Today with our technological know-how (including agricultural abundance) the conditions for survival of a society have shifted. But the long term effects of changing sexual mores cannot really be predicted.
Very articulately stated.
Most men, want the wife at home, along with the opportunity to gather as much outside companionship as possible...
This is what I think to be the number one reason for the current legislation against sex work. The law is a benefit to the male perspective. Everyone blames Religion which isn't a false claim, however Religion is also a benefit to the male perspective.
The Oneida Community was an alternative socialist group that existed roughly from 1850-1880. It was a group dedicated to living communally as one family and sharing all property, work and love.
The Oneida community believed strongly in a system of free love known as complex marriage, where any member was free to have sex with any other who consented. Possessiveness and exclusive relationships were frowned upon. Unlike 20th century social movements, the Oneidans did not seek consequence-free sex for pleasure, but believed that, because the natural outcome of intercourse was pregnancy, raising children should be a communal responsibility. Women over the age of 40 were to act as sexual “mentors” to adolescent boys, as these relationships had minimal chance of conceiving. Furthermore, these women became religious role models for the young men. Likewise, older men often introduced young women to sex. John Humphrey Noyes (the founder of the Oneida community) often used his own judgment in determining the partnerships that would form, and would often encourage relationships between the non-devout and the devout in the community, in the hopes that the attitudes and behaviors of the devout would influence the non-devout.
How about the gay, trans, poly, etc lifestyles? Where do they fit into this culture?
if the main goal was procreation. Gay, Trans, ETC isn't traditionally a lifestyle choice that revolves around procreation.
If you want to be Gay, or Transgender you arr going to have to compromise on the whole having children thing. Biologically it isn't in the cards.
-- Modified on 5/8/2016 3:59:38 PM
xcellent point about gay, transgender, etc vis a vis the Oneida Community. (Given the time-frame when this community was in existence--most likely those individuals would encounter prejudice---hate to say it but I have to be realistic.)
Well---I guess I should amend my earlier statement and say that it would be wonderful to have a society more like the Oneidans whereby their utopian vision included everyone regardless of sexual orientation!!
You are all going to hell, just like us hobbyists. We live in a society that condemns all of us equally, at least publicly, anyway. Then behind closed doors, those whose public condemnation is the most vociferous, are normally right in there with all of us. So no problem, they are going to hell too. We will have a lot of company.
ou sound like one of those wacko Bible-pounding evangelists---those people are SERIOUSLY maladjusted!! If participating in an alternative society where people freely express their sexuality without fear of societal repression means going to hell---all I can say is my ticket's punched---and I have no regrets!!
You took my post waaaaaaaaaaay too seriously. There is NO hell. Only the hell that exists inside of each individual that is based upon their own preconceived notions. Furthest thing from a "bible-thumper."
But thank you for helping me shed light on the hypocrites who consider judging others an art form.
Didn't mean to get all-hyper on you---(You have to understand--I grew up in a STRICT Catholic household--so when it comes to religion I've got a bit of a "chip on my shoulder", shall we say LMAO!!)
have a digital subscription to the Times, read it every day...but the feature on sex work/legalization was a dry rehash of old issues. About halfway through, I skimmed heavily. There were a few things that jumped out at me:
1. In the slideshow of sex workers, there's a photo of a 50ish provider: "Maggie McNeill--Courtesan & GFE escort in Seattle". Are they fucking kidding. She's way more than that. Maggie is the brilliant author of the "Honest Courtesan" blog. The Times should've freelanced this article to Maggie--she would've done a much better job than the clueless Emily Bazelon.
2. Gloria Steinem's description of prostitution as "commercial rape". As a liberal, I'm tired of defending idiotic feminist statements like that. The next time your ATF/SB texts you for another round of P4P, just remember that you're committing 'commercial rape'. It's really ridiculous.
3. Kudos to Amnesty International for putting forward a proposal for full decriminalization of consensual sex work. They're a pillar of sanity on the issue. --
Religion must be dealt with. We live in a society where political candidates are expected to believe in "god," or they will be denied office. And most of the prejudice against sexuality comes from the repressions of religion. I know, I lived it. I was sent to sunday school and church, where I was taught that there's nothing wrong with sex...IF you only do it when you're married. Any other form of sex was an ABOMINATION...and people were stoned for that in the old testament days. So, at the end of the day, I learned that sex was something filthy and dirty, and those who enjoyed sex were sick in the head.
Of course, prohibition never works...and that includes religion. Many communist countries attempted to prohibit and stamp out religion, and of course, it backfired. Is there a way we can educate people about religion, so that they can make informed decisions for themselves with all of the data available? Maybe there is a glimmer of hope. More and more people, especially among the millennial population, are rejecting religion. One reason may be the internet. It offers a plethora of information about where our religions came from, and how they evolved. Bible thumping can't stand against the fact that our modern religions are nothing but copies of older religions.
The same applies to the hobby. If John/Sally Q. Public starts reading TER, how long can they remain prejudiced against the hobby? It wouldn't take rocket science to figure out that we're all just regular people from all walks of life, who happen to love having fun. Long live the internet. Information is power. Let's supply the masses with information.
phrase "Politics makes strange bedfellows" is perfectly illustrated by the anti-prostitution coalition in the U.S.: Religious Conservatives + Feminist Liberals. These two groups, who disagree on just about every other issue, are in alignment for the continued prohibition of consensual P4P. Say what you will, that's a powerful coalition.
On the other side: Libertarian Conservatives + Woodstock Liberals (for lack of a better term). Most of us on TER fall into one of these two groups (I'm a Woodstock liberal). The bad news: we don't have the numbers or the passion to match the opposition. I seriously doubt that legalization in the U.S. will happen during my lifetime. I hope I'm wrong. --z
You really nailed it---those two factions working together are one HELL of a tough opponent to fight in the battle for freedom!
The Catholic Church has be coexisting with prostitution for ages, but it's the "soccer moms" trying to make it illegal.
For the record, count me in as a Libertarian Conservative, and former Woodstock Liberal, AND one of the few willing to stand up and be counted as an unabashed whore monger.