TER General Board

These documentaries are ridiculous
maxwell44 23 Reviews 256 reads
posted

If someone works a job, they are selling themselves in a different way.  Does that make them a victim?

If it is young girls, that is different, but I am talking about adults who have free will.  To say that an adult escort with free will is a victim of anything is the same thing as saying someone who works in any other job is a victim of something too.  As if they would be much better off not working, and being homeless instead.

Just curious  

I watched a documentary on tv not too long ago ,  
And they show these poor girls that are all victims  
Of the sex trade etc .  

It made me wonder is it true ?  
I have seen so many providers and all very happy friendly  
And willing . If someone told me they are doing this against  
Their free will i would not believe them .  
In the matter of fact , i spoke to few providers  
In the past and they said its bunch of bs . I tend to believe them.  

Now , i am not talking about a global sex trade just  
In the US . I know there are countries where they still  
Have sex slaves etc , thats very sad .  

But here in US ?  
What is your guys's take on this ?

through out history and across the world, large numbers of people have been forced into jobs that  they don't want to do.
 
That said, what does it mean?

It means that there is a lot of gray area and nuance to consider.

Given the standards of living in many of the counties these gals come from, getting a chance to come  to the US or western Europe beats the alternative "good" jobs in their countries involving backbreaking and dangerous work in factories where sexual abuse is often part of the game.  Might as well get paid for it.

Given a choice, I would steer clear of gals offered by traffickers, but there are times when you never know for sure, not unlike buying mass produced merchandise.

I am in no position to judge just like I can't really judge say prison conditions in Louisiana. I actually and by accident got myself elected to a local political position a few decades ago and, while I served my term, got to know the local police. I could have, at that time absolutely said our local police were fair, reasonable, honest etc, but if you asked me then (or now) about the Chicago police, I would have no idea.  
It is the same with this question.  I have had providers as patients (also decades ago) who were absolutely in the business because they wanted to be. The providers I have met more recently (except for one) seem happier with their careers so far than most of the younger lawyers or older physicians I know, but I have no idea what goes on in other places in businesses I would never know about.  
At the least, those of us who hobby should be sure we never participate in any act that involves lack of consent on he  part of any of the people we see. (The one lady i saw who was unhappy, was independent and not forced, but unhappy because her career was not doing well and she was not making the money she used to.)

souls_harbor379 reads

I wouldn't knowingly frequent trafficked providers.  But sex itself isn't evil.  To me it is a mix of indentured servant and out and out slavery.  From something like a contract for service to physical threats and punishment.  So a continuum from okay to evil.    

I would say independents are in it because it is a better way of earning an income than other options open to them.  

I think the proof that some enjoy the profession (more than other lines of work) are those that leave and then come back

I have seen and still see girls from agencys  
And most maybe all seem very happy  
Some of them are students that just try to make  
A quick buck , some married on " vacation "
But the few I spoke about this subject that worked for  
Agency were also doing this out of choice

Posted By: statson1234
Just curious  
   
 I watched a documentary on tv not too long ago ,  
 And they show these poor girls that are all victims  
 Of the sex trade etc .  
   
 It made me wonder is it true ?  
 I have seen so many providers and all very happy friendly  
 And willing . If someone told me they are doing this against  
 Their free will i would not believe them .  
 In the matter of fact , i spoke to few providers  
 In the past and they said its bunch of bs . I tend to believe them.  
   
 Now , i am not talking about a global sex trade just  
 In the US . I know there are countries where they still  
 Have sex slaves etc , thats very sad .  
   
 But here in US ?  
 What is your guys's take on this ?
-- Modified on 5/1/2016 1:22:26 PM

I don't have a clue about what is going on throughout the country but I am certain none of the providers I have and am seeing  or have are have seen are not forced. Why do know this?  To start with, I don't see any providers under the age of 28. They are independent and have no pimp.I have come to know them very well, where they live, their real names, their families and they know that about me. I am a widower, retired, I live alone and my family members who matter to me know what I am doing.  I do know one provider who is trying to get out of this profession and is getting qualifications so that she can. I help her as much as I can. There is only one provider I have seen only once and I don't know much about her and she knows less about me. What I do know, she claims to be 40 (really looks 50) and has been that for 4 years. I doubt she is being forced but I don't know for sure.

The Asian ones I know that worked through some local agencies were most likely here without a choice.

There was a big bust last week in the Phx area that took down one of these agencies. "Mama san" had connections in Thailand and was bringing in several girls at a time and withholding their passports/documents until they "earned enough". I never partook though I was tempted as I love Asian women. 4 girls holed up in a nice apt. The other person arrested, his job was to get food and supplies for the ladies. Looks like they didnt have much choice.  

Im not much of  a MP guy but I also notice many random "new girls" coming and going within a few weeks. They are being rotated in from somewhere. Most don't speak English.  

Someones point was good that if they came from a true hellhole type place maybe being in the industry in the US is a better way of life. If they are doing it without choice...bad news for all. I stay away if theres even a question as I dont want to be part of the problem. Freedom is the one thing I couldnt live without.

I've always assumed -- and we all know what "assume" means -- that the younger the girl/woman the more likely that she's giving her money to a pimp.  Of course I can't know for sure just my assumption, so I avoid the young ones.

Would be worth knowing the source/documentary you're referencing.

The other things I'd say are:
1) A news story a year or so back was about a couple of women from Illinois that kidnapped a younger woman and forced her into prostitution. There are just as bad people in the USA as anywhere else.
2) Sometimes it's hard to make some cross cultural comparisons. I've heard that some of the Asian girls are working off the gambling debts of their fathers but we don't know if it's the father/family obligations that are pushing the girl into the situation or the organization that owns the father's debt just taking the girl. In the later case it's clearly trafficing. In the former....?

1). Do these women have personal freedom for an alternative employment? (can they find a Walmart type of jobs?)
2). Are these women capable of securing a marriage in marriage market? (are they attractive enough to find a marriage partner?)
3). Do these women independently own all resources to be in the business? (do they need a someone else to be in the business?)
4). Are these women better paid in the business comparing to other alternatives? ($$$ is also relevant for testing)  

If you think the answers are all "yes", there are good reasons for believing it is a voluntary choice. "Against will" is a strong concept, there must be strong evidences for it in order to be true.

So far I feel safe that the escorts I was with were doing so out of their own free will. One no longer is working in the hobby, and has moved on. Besides the over inflated pricing, one reason I will never go to a legal brothel again is those are more than likely places where sex trafficking does take place. If you do not have enough women for customers, you have to find them somehow. I am just guessing most women working as independent escorts are doing so of their own free will. After all, where can you find a job that pays $250-$1000 per hour? Even if you got four clients a week who hired you for two hours, the money adds up quickly.

If someone works a job, they are selling themselves in a different way.  Does that make them a victim?

If it is young girls, that is different, but I am talking about adults who have free will.  To say that an adult escort with free will is a victim of anything is the same thing as saying someone who works in any other job is a victim of something too.  As if they would be much better off not working, and being homeless instead.

rollaxroll285 reads

I am not sure what is your definition of "against their will".  I do believe that majority of providers doing this is for the money rather than for the pleasure.  They always say and make you feel that they are happy, god knows if they are telling the truth or not, because they need to behave that they are happy for the returning clients, for the good money.  I am sure there are providers who are truly happy for doing this job, and there might be some providers who are not very happy doing this except for the money.  I believe that most of them doing this with their own choice, that meaning nobody forced them to do so.  However, if they have other choices that can also make decent money, even less than what they are making as a provider, they might just left this field.   This might explain, or partially explain why most of the providers only provides in a few years and leave or retire.    I just don't know how many, or what percentage are truly enjoy what they are doing.

Yeah, but how many of us are happy to drag our asses out of bed in the morning and head off to work.  I can think of a million other things I would rather enjoy doing.

Sex isn't evil.  It can be physical work.  Just like shoveling shit out of the barn is physical work.  As long as it isn't coerced all is fair.

Posted By: rollaxroll
I do believe that majority of providers doing this is for the money rather than for the pleasure.  

On what circles you roam. I've read about this with woman from other countries in the US, but I doubt you're going to find those on TER. Unfortunately, LE lumps all P4P together. They don't care. It's illegal to them all the same. Younger providers have learned to say, "trafficked" to avoid getting busted, but that only works one time. The unfortunate "john's" are really screwed tho.  


-- Modified on 5/2/2016 2:16:34 AM

99+% confident.  Then again, I know this is not true with everyone, especially at the lower end of the spectrum.   The best thing you can do as a hobbyist is to avoid situations that don't feel right to you.  

Yes, it's sad and tragic that there are ladies (probably a lot of them) that are either here against their will, or would prefer not to be.  For those being forced to involuntarily, they should be rescued, and the criminals and pimps controlling them should be sent up the river.  Those ladies who are here on their own volition but want out should leave ASAP when they decide to.  

Personally, I only want to associate with ladies that are here because they want to be.  There are some that do, and that's the bright side of this game...

And I am highly suspect of the ones that lump all sex workers into the "exploited" category.  Does it happen in the U.S.?  Certainly, but usually with illegal immigrant women or women who grew up in the ghetto.  A college educated escort on a well-respected review site is very unlikely to be trafficked.  So, we can be smarter than the media and smarter than the clueless "johns" who don't think about what they're doing.

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