Of course it's about the fresh meat for him, and it should be just about the money for you. All of that extra otc time and tlc is time you could be spending figuring how to attract clients that don't need all of that to see you consistently and to pay you well.

These guys want to sleep with lots of random women, that's why they're here. Being his 'ATF' only benefits one of you two, and that person isn't you. Give the refrence, be a professional, and treat him like a client. He's a client, that's it, and there's nothing wrongn with that.

Would you want your favorite client to recommend you to other potential clients via the back channel?

I do it all the time for my ATF

In fact, I would wager that I have probably brought her roughly five new clients over the past 2 years, simply by recommending her to others who either directly inquired after reading one of my reviews of her ... or whom I went out of my way to recommend to guys that I have gotten to know on the boards.

It is for this reason that I EXPECT her to return the courtesy. She has made thousands of dollars from me in referral business -- with very nice and respectful guys I might add. I wouldn't recommend her to someone who came across as flaky or douchy, or who had a history of giving scathing reviews to other providers they've seen.

THIS is the "unwritten understanding" that my ATF and I have.

Octavia,  

I've had great clients come and go. I've lost a SD or two due to marital problems and/or health issues.  Of course, I'm pretty sure that the same gentlemen who have supported me have lost their share and/or cut ties with their ATF's and SB's.  

Alas, I'm not married to them and we are not in a relationship. Even though we had wonderful times together, at the end of the day, it was business. Good business at that. Although, it's a bit disheartening to lose clients, and even more disheartening for clients to see another providers. However, don't take it too personal. No one belongs to anyone.  

I always say a prayer for the wonderful clients that I have at the moment. I am thankful for them, and I just continue to do the best that I can do for them. At the same time, I am always looking into the future, because I realize that I may never see them again.  

Sweetest Regards,
Adrienn

....sure friendships (and occasionally love) can form, especially from long term arrangements. We are all only human, after all. But in the long run it has to stay business. Having a thick skin and trying not to take things personally is the only way to survive.  

Unrequited love in the real world is hard enough, but in the sex trade I imagine that it would be absolutely devastating

...my lady friends for references. That's why I belong to Date-check.  

And I do think it breaks the GF "vibe", even if that is somewhat of an illusion. (I still like to think I am friends with my regulars.)

I will ask them for a reference to attend a Meet & Greet.

Men and by this I mean  ALL MEN  love strange pussy.  They don't like pain in the ass pussy blockers though.  So I  concur with the alias.  Be a good girl and give him a reference.  

Please, take care of yourself and your business.  From this side of the country, it appears that you are young, eager, gorgeous, and delight in a broad range of activities.  And you are underpriced.  Look at Boston's top ten; you are underpriced.  Look at the Los Angeles top ten, their donations are at least double what yours are.  You can make more money in less time and enjoy life more.  Btw, I would ask my ATF for a reference.  Hey, I didn't meet her while fondling a rosary and taking vows of chastity and I will be back to see her.  She hasn't lost my business.  She has sex with other people and I have sex with other women; that's the hobby.  Be safe and consider a tour to sunny, warm San Diego.  Sign me up for an extended date with you.  I can't get anything done in 1 hour.  Yum!

I understand that you want to get closer to your clients, but at the end of the day they move on and see whoever they want. We may have regulars, but yes, the ugly truth is they see us as fresh meat they want to experience.  
Please, value your time more. Giving away OTC time doesn't make them stay forever, and only disadvantages you. Whoever tells you to do anything for them for free is manipulating you.  
Being a companion is a profession, you don't have to be cold and "business-like" to properly run a business. Good clients know these boundaries; if a man wants affection for free, there's always Tinder and OkCupid.

I use my regular as a reference. It's business and everything is above board, which is why he's doing that. It sounds like you are going beyond the usual client/provider relationship and you need to speak up. As clients we are so bombarded with rules that we will never speak up first even if we really like a provider so you have to. I have met providers who were ok with their BF's seeing other providers, but I've also met providers who were not ok with it at all. Speak up if it bothers you. I'm sure he's just trying to be a good client and isn't trying to upset you. Good luck.

Few like to admit that something from this industry has caused pain (even to ourselves), but it's far better than being delusional.  We all know it's a business arrangement and we say it constantly, yet contradict that daily with things like OTC, GFE, steamy/flirty/friendly emails, image obsession, jealousy, vindictiveness, and talking in this GD board. We may not act on impulses, but anyone claiming they've never had any emotional investment in the hobby is full of shit.  

Your mind knows what's right. You've learned how to avoid feeling like this in the future.

-- Modified on 2/11/2016 2:56:58 PM

There is no place for jealously in this endeavor - on either end. That being said, just because a client wants to see another provider does not devalue the experience you and he had. Anyone who goes comparing each experience to the last just isn't doing this right, and, whether you are a client or provider, comparing is only going to limit your pleasure and feel good in the moment.

A second note about the "ATF" dynamic - clients who I click with in particular have always insisted on honoring my consideration, often above and beyond what was required. And none of them would accept OTC if offered. An ATF relationship is not a pseudo-romantic one, au contraire, the boundaries are even more clear and the form of special affection that feels so good about ATF is the deliberate, careful and enthusiastic respect of the nature of the relationship. At least, this has been my experience.

-- Modified on 2/11/2016 4:13:16 PM

What are you looking for?  

If you're making a living as a hooker then your profession dictates not getting so attached to your client that your professionalism suffers...if you require background info and references from your clients then you owe them the same courtesy...

As a client I'm not looking for a relationship, I'm looking for an experience...once that moment is over so is our relationship...I don't owe you any loyalty beyond the time I paid for nor do I expect yours...I know you're seeing other clients, why is it a problem if I see other providers?

If you're looking for more than that then maybe you need to re-evaluate your career choice...

Octavia It is your business and your life run it and live it the way it makes you happy. If you like this guy as a friend, and you like being with him then do it. If you ever feel that he is taking advantage of you on the otc time then kick him to the side.

I posted a question on here a while back to see if it is possible for a provider to like spending time with me, or was it all about the money. From what I can tell you do enjoy your time with him for what ever reason you may. I find it refreshing that a girl like you can find a mutually satisfying relationship with somebody. If your otc time with him does not hurt your business and you do enjoy the time with him then go for it.  I do know that I pay for my atf to come and see me but does not mean she can not truly enjoy my company also. That is one of the reason I will keep seeing her until it runs it course. Until then I will enjoy every encounter with her as if it our last one.

Thank you

One of the very first ladies I met in this hobby is still a regular for me, and she will be forever.   Part of the reason is due to her attitude and behavior re references and beyond.  This lady is a pro and a very smart business person.  

She consistently provides references even though my visits can be spaced out in time.  But she goes well beyond just providing references.  When our schedules don't work, she does intros for me.  Including some who are UTR.  One of these ladies has turned out to be another favorite.  I am seeing amazing providers that I would never have found any other way.

She also has friends in other cities, so if she knows I am traveling she will recommend and intro me to her friends in these cities.  Ladies who she thinks will appreciate my “style" as she calls it.

She is hard core bi, so in most cases these women are more than just friends.   So we sometimes end up talking about how amazing they are and comparing notes.  This is a turn on for me.  

So overall, she has taken an interest in my overall well-being in the hobby, even if it could mean more competition.  Her enlightened self interest means she has a special place for me.  As mentioned above, this means she will keep me as a client for as long as she is in the business.  I will miss her when she hangs em up.

but he keeps coming back to me at the end of the day. No hard feelings I sleep around I would expect nothing less from him its called the hobby after all.

OTC is the curse of all curses, especially if you really like and admire a client. As far as I'm concerned, if someone likes me THAT much to spend more time with me, he will take care of me even more, without me even having to ask. Why should you, who are "so special" to this guy, be the "cheap date"? Why not be the one he dumps the most investment into if he likes you so much? Kind of like "Want to know if a hooker really likes you? Stop paying her."  

How about, "Want to know if a Customer really likes you? Charge him." Why be second financially when he calls you first emotionally? The emotional support is by far THE most challenging part of this business, in my opinion. WHY is that part free for so many of us?

Then there's security vs dollars. If someone is supporting me on a monthly basis with XXX amount, guaranteed ($5 grand at the first of the month, where I can take the month off if I really wanted to) I'd still even put a cap on the amount of time. After all, I'm still building my future.

I have a few clients that I just drool over. But that boundary I call the "green fence" (Financial support, and not seeing me as a cheap date) - this is your rate for this long or that long - and that's our agreement for this allotted amount of time. Rates I choose that I will be happy with when they go back home to their wives, kids, or ask for references from other women in the industry, while I'm preparing my heart to not see them for a while, and re-focusing/compartmentalizing to guard my heart.

Hell, if he's supporting my future, fuck it - I'll handle the pain while I live my comfortable life, and have a safety net, partially provided by him.

OTC with this guy is money lost with other opportunities. Arrangements are security, (def don't do arrangements cheap - I've done that - ouch. Very bad idea.) Money is him investing in you, your business, and your future, and it's his contribution or his inheritance that he is giving to you, so when he ups and leaves, he left you something.

And that's why I hate OTC. God I was miserable when I did that shit all the time back in the day. Felt so used, it sucked.

 
**edited**  I forgot to mention, the girl has nothing to do with it obviously, and I'd definitely be happy to give her a good referral. I'm glad other ladies support me in that, and feel good doing the same. But I can see where that would kind of jab you a bit. I never tell guys not to see other girls. In fact, I encourage it.  

Been there, done that sister. If you didn't have feelings, you wouldn't be as great at what you do. And that's one huge reason I don't give out OTC.

-- Modified on 2/11/2016 7:43:07 PM

I'm sure he asks you to recommend him so that you communicate with the provider, getting enough of a feel for who she is so you can imagine what the two of them will be doing. It's a way of stimulating you. It'll be even more exciting the next time he sees you.

I think really, before you can enforce policies with how you want to deal with extras and time, validating your gut feeling, and your feelings in general, really helps you explain it to yourself, so you can communicate it properly to others.

i swear this green fence analogy is one of the best things I've used to explain exactly what you're talking about. It really helps.

By the way, you are gorgeous. That hair, wow! (Not being creepy, but don't fret - you can replace him easy if you need to lol!)

xoxo

what your point is? or what are you trying to get to? while there's some exception like anything else in life you already said the OBVIOUS about the hobby: $ for providers and fresh meat for mongers.

To answer your question: by "my defintion" my ATF got that precise designation because she exceeds my expectation, she is giving me a fantastic deal for a generous menu and most excellent service.

I would not risk alienating or in anyway upsetting her in the slightest way by giving her proof that I see other women. Sure most providers would not be as naive to think that they're the only one their clients see but I'm sure they'd rather suspect that's the case than having unequivocal proof.  

It's called "guarding the golden goose that lays the golden eggs" (LOL

I rarely stray from my ATF, but yes I use her as a reference. Who would know me better? I know she is fucking more men than I want think about but I still crave her company. Why should she get butt hurt if I see another hooker?

establish a real rapport with your clients.  The difficulty lies in being able to know when that rapport is real.  Just as many providers do a rather convincing job of leading some of their clients into believing they enjoyed a session.........when in fact they might not have.........some hobbyists may be equally skillful in this area.

Again IMHO........the important thing is.........YOU get everything that makes sense to YOU out of an appointment with your clients.  After all, that is what they are doing.

many dangers on our end of getting too attached, being too trusting.  I think it's wise for us as hobbyists to be able to maintain enough emotional distance that we don't run the risk of getting rinsed.

Heck, my ATF came down with the flu once, so called a friends, recommended me, and set up the date as our date just wasn't going to happen.  She chose well by the way.

Maybe I'm the exception to the rule, but I don't view the providers I see as a piece of meat or a cum receptacle.  I understand very well that in this business, the providers are going to develop a certain emotional attachment to at least some of their clients, and I don't take that lightly.  Also, because I am recently divorced, and have no girlfriends IRL at the moment, my ATF and the other providers I see are my girlfriends...and I don't care if you're an ATF, a FWB, a girlfriend, or a wife; I treat the women in my life like princesses.  I tell my ATF that I love her all the time, and she says the same...and proves it with my grandfathered rates and OTC time.  It's very minimal OTC, mostly running an hour and a half on one-hour dates and the occasional lovey-dovey phone call, but it's there.  She knows that I don't have a lot of money, and she also knows that if I did have a lot of money, I'd spend a hell of a lot on her.  So she does what she can for me, without screwing herself in the process.

Fresh meat my ass.

Octavia, I think you should listen to the ladies and protect yourself, but I also think you’re right that it’s not unreasonable to expect a guy to understand that once you reach a certain level it’s not business as usual.

OTC implies things are kind of personal. I’m not saying it means you’re walking down the aisle or even that things are romantic, but it does mean things have probably gone beyond a performance. The guy's not just a transaction and the she's not just the flavor of the month. Or week. Or day.

So for me, if things progressed to off the clock time or a woman told me her real real name (not one of her three fake real names [funny, Julia]), a whole new set of rules kicked in. One was to think beyond the per session model. Another was no reference requests. Not because I was dancing around anybody’s insecurities but as a sign of respect. Respect for her feelings, respect for the chance she’s taking, stuff like that. If a woman who charges for her time starts giving you time for free, odds are pretty high some feelings are involved. Might not be love, but it’s something.

I’m no model citizen, though. I’ve screwed up plenty and hurt plenty of feelings, so I’ve learned some things the hard way.  

(Speaking of screwing up, if any lady I ever did ask for a reference stumbles across this and you’re wondering “So what was I, chopped liver,” just keep in mind I asked you for a reference early on. Or later after it was painfully clear you’d fired me. Depending on who reads this.