it is important too remember that he does it because "He LOVES Us"
When reading the bible there are references to hell and the lake of Fire. What do you think the difference between both of them is ?
Being somewhat of a Biblical scholar, I can tell you that the main difference is that they have water skiing at the Lake of Fire, although the refreshment stand does not have cold drinks.
I hope this clarifies that difference. Next week -the answer to how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
Let's start with "Hell"... Original Hebrew word "SHEOL", which is the resting place of the dead (Specifically the dead Israelites) This later was confused when it was translated into "Hades" which is actually NOT a OT-Biblical word, But a Greek word from Greek mythology for the bleak afterlife of the half-gods... Since the New Testament was written in Greek, Hades was used for the first time as a descriptive word of the "holding tank" where disembodied souls would reside until Judgment Day. Not to confuse that "Hades" in it's original definition as a greek mythological place of afterlife is the same place as "Hades" of the NT-Bible, it's merely a common word of the day that was used (Let's not forget that some of the NT was written in "street language" ,not the scholar-level work of Paul's writings, which was a result of his extensive education as a Pharisee, prior to his conversion to "The Way"
(FYI, the Catholic con-artist scheme called "purgatory" is partly responsible for the misunderstandings of "Hell" and eternal-damnation, which exist today... There is NO Biblical basis for Purgatory, it's a made up crock of shit!)
As to the "Lake of Fire" this is seperate from Hell/Hades/Sheol, as it was/will be created SPECIFICALLY for Satan/Lucifer and the Angels that fell with him and we now call "Demons". They will burn eternally in torment in Hell as punishment for their rebellion against the Throne of God prior to the creation of man.
The souls of People do not go to the "lake of fire" when they die to burn for eternity! When we die we rest in "hades" until Judgment Day, then we are brought before the Throne of God for Final Judgment. At this time we will be divided into two groups, Those whose names are written in the "Lamb's Book Of Life", and those who are NOT! (BTW, the "Lamb" is Yehoshua/Jesus, who paid the price for "sin" when He died on the Cross. This is a parallel to the sacrificial lamb of ancient Hebrew practices and originates in the act of placing the "blood of a lamb" on the door-post when Jews were slaves to the Egyptians and Pharaoh was reluctant to release them when Moses asked him. The final "plague" of Egypt was the "Death Angel" who came ant took the lives of all the first-born in Egypt, but "passed over" the houses of those that were painted with the "blood of the lamb" and those children were spared. THUS, this parallels the reference in the NT-book "Revelations" where those written in the "Lamb's Book" will be spared the "second death".
The "second death", is when the souls of ALL OTHERS who have been born of women shall be cast into the "Lake of Fire" where they WILL NO LONGER EXIST, not being tormented as satan and the fallen angels are.
If "sinners" were cast into the "lake of fire" to be tormented for eternity, they would infact be granted "Eternal Life", albeit an eternal life of PUNISHMENT, it would still be "eternal" in nature...
This is the huge crock of shit that drives the Fundamentalists to their strange behavior! They've been misled and theologically twisted for a a thousand years with Dark-Ages Catholic mythology that EVERYONE who is not "SAVED" will burn in Hell for eternity, whereas the Bible says something COMPLETELY different! But far be it for a Christian Evangelical Zelot to ACTUALLY READ THE BIBLE! Fuck no, they'd rather sit at the feet of some self-aggrandizing preacher while he whips them into an emotional frenzy and extorts their money!
I'm wondering if I sucked hard enough on her pussy, if i could draw the water out of that bong?
So, everyone goes to Hell for a couple of eons of punishment, but then God closes shop and liquidates. He then judges according to a Book his Son Jesus has kept, which reduces God the Father to being a bureaucrat, BTW, there to give the final stamp. Those in the Book are saved, those who aren't are shoved into the Lake for elimination for existence.
I'm left with a few questions: one is why does an all knowing God need a book to jog his memory?
Second, where is the Holy Spirit in all of this?
Third, what happens next? So, you have these people with eternal life, what do they do from there?
As you criticize purgatory, be aware that the Trinity is also found nowhere in the Bible, and yet every Christian denomination shares that belief, including the Mormons.
It's just a "holding tank" for disembodied souls. With the exception of a few Biblical-inconsistencies, the souls of the dead will "sleep" until Judgment Day.
Yahweh, his Son Yehoshua, and the Holy Spirit are different attributes of the same Deity. Yehoshua's sacrifice on the cross was the payment for all sin, those who chose to accept this as truth, and "believe" will be written in the Lamb's Book, and on Judgment Day will be SET ASIDE and NOT judged! The rest of humanity will be judged from the other books, which will be accounts of their good and bad deeds... Those who are in the Lamb's Book Will NOT be held accountable for their bad deeds or rewarded for their good ones. They will get a "free pass" into eternal life without facing judgment. (This is what the catholics have ass-backwards, their religion is based on "penance" and "good works", rather than "repentance" and acceptance of the free gift that was offered at the Cross.)
The Bible doesn't address why God would need a "book" to jog his memory, however there are a few places in the Bible where things are brought to God's "remembrance", and in the many attributes of God that are addresses in the OT and NT, "All-Remembering" is not one of them...
The Holy Spirit is not an entity unto it'self, it's merely the communication-vessel between Yahweh and those who have chosen to repent and have been "grafted into the vine".
Those with "eternal life" enter a new place that is currently being created called "The New Jerusalem". But they do NOT go to "Heaven", which is another misconception that originated in Catholic religion. Jesus said he was "going to prepare a place" when he left earth, and that place has a description in Revelations as being a large floating "cube" which all those written in the Lamb's Book will enter into and spend all eternity.
(The earth will "pass away" at some future point according to scripture, so this "New Jerusalem" will be the eternal place where all those who were made "eternal" by God will dwell for all eternity.)
"Christian" is a meaningless word, it wasn't even coined as the name of the "movement" until 240 years after Jesus died on the cross. It was a pagan slang-word for those that followed the teachings of Christ. The actual Biblical name of Christ's followers is "The Way". So why is it surprising to you that "Christians" hold onto other made up terms such as "Trinity"?
As far as Mormons go, they are more fucked up than the rest of the Christians, since they think their leader got special "reading glasses" from an Angel that allowed him to read special "scrolls" that nobody else ever saw. And transcribe it into the book of mormon... coincidentally similar to how Mohammad received the Q'ran from an angel... Hmmm, The Bible warns that SATAN can "appear as an angel of enlightenment" and is known as the "great deceiver of nations"... Draw your own conclusions...
-- Modified on 12/21/2008 7:25:57 AM
Hades isn't supposed to be a place of torture?
I have a feeling that this is your personal creed, interpreted from the Bible, and other sources. As it isn't a creed accepted by almost all other "Christians," I think it deserves its own name.
As for it being called Christianity, no matter what its origins, the Christians have found the word useful. "The Way" would have to modified for syntax in many uses.
I most often criticize them, but you should give the Catholic and Orthodox churches their due: they did preserve the Bible that you've derived your, very personal faith from.
I answered this in my original post...
No, this isn't my "personal creed", I am infact a "Biblical Scholar" and do infact have a Theological degree (For some reason I wanted to be an the ministry when I was a teenager) What I wrote is EXACTLY what the Bible says, and what Biblical history supports, no "other sources" were used.
You need to understand the most of what we call "church" today is built upon 2 thousand years of para-Biblical "doctrine", not upon Bible it'self.
Also most organized facets of Christianity that exist today are rooted in a homogenization of Christian creeds and political manipulations of pagan kingdoms that were "evangelized" some form of "movement" during their time period, thus most of what they are holding onto today is pure shit and has little to do with the origin of the whole movement called "The Way" which started on the day of "Pentecost" some 40+ days after Jesus was hung on the Cross.
I do thank the Catholics for preserving the canonized-Bible that we have today, They did it by wrapping it in a thick layer of SHIT called "dogma" which inadvertently preserved it from destruction and manipulation, but it does require READING IT without the dogmatic-blinders on to actually understand what it says...
Don't forget that it's possible for MILLIONS of people to be WRONG, just look at how fucked in the head Muslims are... Or the Budists or Hindus for that matter... The Bible does warn that the "road to destruction is wide, and many will find it"... Notice it does NOT say the road to "Eternal punishment"...
I knew that hell=heaven=sheol, and so on. I just thought, could he really be removing the torture chamber from the religion? You were.
I also knew you had a theological background. I realize you think you have put together the actual message of the Bible; does anybody else share your faith, though?
And it's possible that billions of people are wrong, it's just frequently difficult to see which billions of people they are.
I can't remove the "torture-chamber" from religion, since "religion" created the torture-chamber concept and has built it's motivations and manipulations upon it. HOWEVER, I do not NEED to remove the "torture-chamber" from the Bible, because the Bible doesn't contain any such torture-chamber...
Like I said, I am a "Biblical Scholar", not a "religion-scholar", there is every crazy "religious-system" imaginable out there, and often there's a train-wreck of "believers twisted and mangled in it's wreckage...
I'm not claiming to have "put together the actual message of the Bible", I'm not even claiming that what I wrote even makes sense or doesn't contradict other stories/themes in various books of the Bible. (I don't subscribe to the practice of "hermeneutics") I am merely stripping away all the layers of mythological dogmatic shit from the original NT-message (The "good-news") The original movement [called "The Way"] that was started by Jesus himself as he taught in the towns and synagogues, and was later propagated by his disciples after his crucifiction. The Way was a personal walk, of laying down selfish-ambition and embracing a life of satisfaction and contentment from communion with God via his "Holy Spirit"...
Everything else that has been added to it over the years has usually been to serve the needs of a religious-hierarchy to hold power, collect funds, incite zealotry, gain allegiance and and organize their "followers" in one way or another that ultimately results in a lavish life for a few in leadership in exchange for them "putting in a good word for you" when they meet with God... As if THEY were somehow more Holy or powerful in spiritual-practices... The same crock of shit that has been propagated in one form or another by every religion the world has ever known...
Are there others that share my faith? Sure, but there's no formal group/denomination/organization/order/club/society/lodge/membership or any other formal system of communal-policing to direct it. At least not that I am aware of.
Sadly, Jesus's teachings and requests were very simple, but have been made unfathomably complex and exaggerated to such ridiculous extremes that people don't even know what they are following anymore or why...
I meant Hades=Sheol=Hell.
Okay, I understand what you are saying now.
I don't believe even Jesus the man existed.
You need to be clear about the location of the hot lake. I plan to vacation there Mr. Dover.
it is important too remember that he does it because "He LOVES Us"
Then why hell and the lake of fire? How about a little something for my bong?
you could use beer
Why beer?
becasue wine is so "60's"
Dude, beer and wine are cool but not for me. I am a bud man
the idea the God(dess) crafted mankind in such a way that he is in dissonance with the divine. Sure, there are theological justifications (the fall of man, etc). The monotheistic religions have this fatal flaw in common. Eastern and natural pagan religions see man in consonance with the God(dess) and able to learn of the divine through experience whereas the monotheists say that the only valid way to learn of the divine is through "revelation" - which always turns into letting your mind be controlled by some group or hierarchy. Bunk.
Post a link for me.
But I do not agree with the God(dess) point of view. The creator "Yahweh" is neither male or female, but chooses to be revealed as "Father" to illustrate he is the "origin" of life, not to make a gender distinction about himself. When "Adam" was created by Yahweh, he contained BOTH male and female elements, but it's said he was created in "God's own image" (later this illustrated by the removal of the female element which then became a separate being)
God is a perfect "architect", if he had created anything LESS than a being that could willingly choose to disobey or disagree, then he would have merely created organic-robots that would have operated only according to their specific and perfect "programing". This would NOT have accomplished the goal God had in mind. The goal was to create a being that was capable of "love" (Specifically "agape-love", which is to prefer another over one's self-interest) This was only possible by giving this new self-determining being a way and the will to "disobey" and then after by an act of free will choose to "repent" and choose to reconcile, thus the foundation of "selfless-love".
Did he tell you the meaning of the word sin? Did he say what a hypocrite is?
A hypocrite is someone that professes he is one thing but in practice is something different... A common problem among tele-vangelists...
I'm definitely a "sinner", but hardly a hypocrite...
BTW, how often do you smoke pot? (If you even do)
If I do I do it while supplies last. or, until the flame goes out.
He came from somewhere back in her long ago
The sentimental fool dont see
Tryin hard to recreate
What had yet to be created once in her life
She musters a smile
For his nostalgic tale
Never coming near what he wanted to say
Only to realize
It never really was
She had a place in his life
He never made her think twice
As he rises to her apology
Anybody else would surely know
Hes watching her go
But what a fool believes he sees
No wise man has the power to reason away
What seems to be
Is always better than nothing
And nothing at all keeps sending him...
Somewhere back in her long ago
Where he can still believe theres a place in her life
Someday, somewhere, she will return
She had a place in his life
He never made her think twice
As he rises to her apology
Anybody else would surely know
Hes watching her go
But what a fool believes he sees
No wise man has the power to reason away
What seems to be
Is always better than nothing
Theres nothing at all
But what a fool believes he sees...
By: The Doobie Brothers
John 8.10
"Go your way, and from now on do not sin again"
thump,thump, and thump.
How about if I mix different authors?
Here's a mixture of Napoleon Bonaparte and Napoleon Dynamite: "Whatever I feel like I wanna do. Gosh! Impossible is a word to be found only in the dictionary of fools."
Now, how about if we take each of your two favorite Bible quotes separately, in context and at face value....
Luke 6:46-49 “Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you? Everyone who comes to me and hears my words and does them, I will show you what he is like: he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock. And when a flood arose, the stream broke against that house and could not shake it, because it had been well built. But the one who hears and does not do them is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. When the stream broke against it, immediately it fell, and the ruin of that house was great.”
Jesus is rebuking/encouraging his disciples with a parable by telling them that if they follow his teachings with as much conviction as they as use to suck up to him,, their faith will survive the trying times that lay ahead...
Your second and completely unrelated to the first verse John 8:10 if a favorite Bible-thumper verse, but it is widely known that the tail of that verse was ADDED by the translator to strengthen the interpretation. Unfortunately their attempt to do this flies in the face of jesus's other teaching about forgiveness which says in Matthew 18:22 "Jesus saith to him, I do not say to thee till seven times, but till seventy times seven."
The "go and sin no more" tag-line was added in by someone hundreds of years after the Gospels were first written down, it wasn't spoken by Jesus or written by John. (it's origin isn't known, but it is suspected that it was once a foot-note, as it also appears in some rejected translations of the Gospel of Luke...)
I can see that you are not a typical ignorant pointy headed bible thumper. Good for you!
it is interesting to investigate the development of John's gospel at the manuscript / codex level. Does not seem to reach anything like it's present state until at the very least the 4th century. And of course the whole woman caught in adultery story floated round depending on manuscript tradition. Apparently once a loose leaf inserted randomly into a codex as in Bezae the Uncial style is just a bit different - and it was originally found whole in Luke.....
Blessed Be
google thump.
besides right here in this thread? There's more commie-crap on Google that Christian resources... Perhaps YOU are the real fraud of beliefs held and espoused??
BTW some communists are christians.