How many johns would expect that hooker to give her full undivided attention otc as if she was being paid like she would do BCD?
Nice to see you posting...
OTC to me, means I am no longer "on" as in fully focused on his needs, his conversation etc.
OTC clock to me means I can be myself and have as much say in where this OTC lunch is as well as take the conversation where I want it to go.
OTC means to me that I do not want unwanted physical touching...I am not your girlfriend and that is part of paid time. So drop that and the sexual overtones.
I want to know what the guy expects if he takes a hooker OTC to lunch or dinner? Does he expect her to be "on" as in not touching her phone, goes to the restaurant of his choice yada yada, allowing touching etc.
Body language is not that difficult language to learn. If she pulls back from a kiss in public, hint taken and I will respect her wishes, but 90% of my unpaid dates with hookers aren't anything like what you describe, apparently not all hooker hate their job and not so secretly hate their clients.
I don't want OTC time to be some kind of "reward" for being a good ATM, I want her to genuinely want to be there even if we both know she's not my GF, although sometimes that's how we end up. Why someone would want to be out in public with someone like you who plainly doesn't want to be there is beyond me.
When I take a hooker on an OTC date, I expect the exact same thing as when taking any other woman out. I don't "expect" anything, but if it's clear she is only doing it to humor me, there wont' be a second time. OTC dates are what I call "sex optional" dates, I simply follow her lead and it's not hard to figure out who wants to be touched and who doesn't
gaga you are making more and more sense the more i read your commentary.
and possibly get called names because there are OTC boundaries? Some guys need to be told while others are seemingly decent and will look at it as two platonic people having lunch or dinner.
I am more referring to a guy who is grabby, upper thigh etc and then just can't steer clear of the sexual remarks all through the meal, thinking it is more of a continuation of the session.
so sorry if that happened to you h+t. guys are pigs, as i've said. since i'm a guy who plays by the hobby rules, it just amazes me that there are others who will push boundaries and try to stretch limits.
it's mind boggling that there are people that don't think the "pay" in "pay 4 play" applies to them. trust me h+t, if i took out to dinner otc i'd be a gentleman.
gotta say though i don't know if you'd find yourself in that situation. you seem like you've got pretty good radar for bs and if you don't know for sure if a guy's gonna follow the rules, i would think you wouldn't risk it.
whatevs. best for all of us would be if nobody ever did any otc stuff with clients, thereby making the delineation clear. but people are people and the waters will be continually muddy.
You have said repeatedly that your guys get 59 minutes and a nudge out the door on the 60th. LOL
No multi hour sessions so no OTC.
So really what you think about OTC is completely meaningless so you shouldn't have any expectations about it since you never do it.
See how simple that is? LOL
In the scenario you present the client has no reasonable expectation of anything...
Your expectations when taking a hooker out OTC should be the same as with any other woman that has never fucked you, or never fucked you for free.
Just because she has fucked you for money doesn't mean she is "interested" in you. If you simply give her the same respect as any woman you have never slept with at all, you should be on safe ground. That doesn't mean you can't make a small "move" on her to test the water the same as a civvie date. If you slide your hand towards her and she takes hold of it, you have your answer. If you slide your hand towards her and she pulls her hand away, you also have your answer. I can't believe that grown ass people are having this discussion that any 14 year old should have learned.
I was having a problem understanding if she meant OTC behind closed doors or in public...I can occasionally be a bit dense trying to work my way through all the acronyms...
Sorry if I tried your patience GaG...
i can't believe we're still talking about this crap.
a provider charges for her time.
it's up to the client to establish to the satisfaction of both parties what can and cannot get done with the time with in the limits of the provider's menu.
if the provider wants to charge less/more/the same for non-sexual activities, and the client will pay it, so be it.
anything else is stupid fodder for trainwreck threads that have nothing to do with reality; at least, my reality.
what i pay my provider is between her and me. what we do during our time together is between her and me and the readers of any review i write about it, and maybe a couple of my back channel ter buddies, and maybe the next couple of providers i tell about it. however i always ask my providers if they mind that i describe our activities to other people. some would rather be private. so be it.
it's commerce, nothing more, nothing less, ladies and gentlemen; and unregulated commerce at that. there are no formal rules, just common sense.
don't do anything the provider hasn't approved of. don't do anything you haven't paid for. don't whine about it on these boards when things don't go your way.
you want to pay for non-sexual time with a woman, that's your prerogative. i want to think you're a moron for doing so, that's mine.
can we talk about something else now?
I actually agree with what you've said, and ALSO agree with H+T's clarification. Is that even possible? Is my head gonna explode? LULZ! As I've written here before, I do go on OTC dinners with clients I like, if I have time. Maybe I just have good judgment but I've never had a problem with "unwanted touching" either. Maybe it's because I like to be touched by people I like.
But mainly, it's like any other date. I'm enjoying a good meal and good company. That's it.
Just don't dare try taking this ho to Olive Garden or TGI Fridays for loaded potato skins. 
All you'll see is my black azz headed out the door. And you won't see it long.
That the guy is taking her to lunch or dinner. Why would it not be a case of a vendor taking a client to lunch or dinner....you know like a real business.
lol
Hence the reason for my question.
don't go out with those johns.
men are pigs, haven't we established that? some (most) guys will keep trying to take that mile if you give them an inch. you are the last person (well, maybe afro-desiac) that i would expect might have trouble or questions in this regard, h+t. you always strike me as a woman who knows her mind and limits and boundaries.
why would you even consider going on a "real" otc lunch with a john if you're unsure of his ability to stay within accepted protocol?
Some men are pigs. Some women are pigs.
I guess you and h+t drink at the same trough!
You should see her. She's right in your neck of the woods.
And don't come whining on here when you find out the "truth" that others know. There are many reasons why she's trying to hide. Maybe Gina can chime in again LOL
men are pigs, haven't we established that? some (most) guys will keep trying to take that mile if you give them an inch. you are the last person (well, maybe afro-desiac) that i would expect might have trouble or questions in this regard, h+t. you always strike me as a woman who knows her mind and limits and boundaries.
why would you even consider going on a "real" otc lunch with a john if you're unsure of his ability to stay within accepted protocol?
even if i dont' know wtf you are talking about
And I have thought a guy was decent and the one time I did offer a lunch, he was a giant boor.
Tried kissing me and I very nearly smacked him. Told him this was OTC and to leave me alone...he had is grab ass time and I thought I was being nice...he got kicked to the curb after that little display. So yes I do know my boundaries but I cannot control the unknown, as in the first time is always the litmus test.
i'm just frakkin' amazed at the liberties guys will take. my condolences for your bad experience.
I read and understood your question.
I would want pretty much what you describe. If I ever end up on one of these types of dates, I want the encounter to feel like two people who enjoy each other's company. Nothing forced or faked. Just natural. If that means some time for her texting or being on the phone, then fine. I would also want some mutual agreement on the place just like normal people do. The last thing I would want is her to be under some form of pressure to be on the whole time.
First to have to pay attention to it get's to buy lunch/dinner/drinks.
Anyone who can't sit for an hour or so without paying attention to some cell phone...well, they will be buying me dinner.
If you have to answer it...please excuse yourself. That's the polite thing to do.
And I'll make sure that the server leaves you the check.
OTC to me, means I am no longer "on" as in fully focused on his needs, his conversation etc.
OTC clock to me means I can be myself and have as much say in where this OTC lunch is as well as take the conversation where I want it to go.
OTC means to me that I do not want unwanted physical touching...I am not your girlfriend and that is part of paid time. So drop that and the sexual overtones.
I want to know what the guy expects if he takes a hooker OTC to lunch or dinner? Does he expect her to be "on" as in not touching her phone, goes to the restaurant of his choice yada yada, allowing touching etc.
and a bit of discussion prior to the dinner regarding just what the OTC relationship is going in should be had.
If you go out to dinner with a co-worker it's generally understood if it's just friends or not but sometimes expectations are different for each and you negotiate the situation and hope you don't make the other relationship awkward for the future.
Do you expect the hooker you take to dinner, off the clock, to keep her phone in her pocket or purse the entire time you're having dinner.
Do you expect the hooker you take out to dinner, to go straight to the ladies room when she has to pee, without talking to or smiling at anyone on the way to or the way back, while you are sitting at the table alone.
I don't. How about you?
If she pulls her phone out in front of me and puts it on speaker phone while she's talking to
a lame brain John, I consider that a bonus tip on an OTC dinner, and I'll often LMAO.
I don't ask hookers to go with me on dinner dates , if they inform me they are hungry after our session I might tell them they are welcome to accompany me to dinner, if I'm hungry and don't mind being seen in public with her.
Most gals/hookers figure out rather quickly, I really don't give a damn. 
There is something about a john that really doesn't give a fuck that seems to have a certain allure for many hookers. Maybe many are secretly like H+T and don't want a guy who will be up their ass the entire time, pretending they are oh their honeymoon together.
he whole point of meeting her OTC, at least to me, would be to enjoy the company of a real person.
Not a Stepford wife robot who exists to blow my mind in bed and blow sunshine and fairy tales up my ass.
As long as she's not rude or disrespectful. But even then, whatever! I'm not paying you. Be yourself and stuff your face with me. Or ignore me if you want. Just like with any other friend I hang with, if you're a complete bore if just means I probably won't hang out with you as much
Hear, hear! While I've never met a provider off the clock, I've met a few that were interesting enough that I wouldn't mind spending some time them with clothing on. It takes a special kind of person to work in this business, and I think it's be really cool to get to know one in a real setting.
and I would assume that if she was with me OTC, she must like me at least a little bit or she wouldn't be there as unlike some johns I won't whine, wheedle and manipulate her to be there. You can be assured, if some hooker is out to dinner with me, she is there of her own free will and wants to be there.
I honestly don't understand what is so tough about this concept. If a hooker insists on being paid to go out in public with a trick, she must consider it "work" and wouldn't be there if she wasn't getting paid. Now I don't mind paying a hooker to fuck me who wouldn't be doing so without getting paid, but to pay some one to eat with me??? I am sorry, but my ego is too big to accept the fact that I would have to pay someone to share a meal with me.
Guys, If you have to pay a hooker to eat with you, NEWSFLASH, she is not into you, not even as a friend. As for me, I ask ONCE, if I get a no or anything non committal, I simply drop the issue and enjoy my paid time between the sheets and between her legs. Most of the time if I am out with a hooker, it was at her invitation not mine.
You can take that to the bank!
If someone is reasonably good at convo and/or making people laugh, her/their attention stays on me/us.
My female dinner guest(s) are there by their own volition and most view it as a fun time out and are actually capable of turning their calculator off for a few hours and getting away from the p4p world. LOL
Ty it some time HT. You might like it. ;
So no her undivided attention is not required. She isn't working after all. It should be relaxed. The ladies I have had OTC time with I for the most part consider real friends.
I am in the middle of taking a break from this world. Rethinking if this is something I want to still do or if the break will be permanent. And if I am not going to do this this board looses it's appeal. I am on today and yesterday because I am home with the flu and am bored.
Not enough decent guys here. And feel better, the flu is no fun. If you do decide to go, I will miss your insightful posts.
Ton of decent guys here including myself.
The eating arrangement needs to be agreed upon but if the guy is paying he probably wants to pick the location. If it's dutch, then you need to agree. Isn't that common sense?
OTC in other settings? You aren't on the clock so you are free to do what you like. If you aren't having fun or don't like the company, leave. If it's a party, go party with others. You aren't in anyway beholden to the guy/girl. I assume that everyone understands that or should
hobbyist/provider "business" encounter...........every facet of every human outcome...........depends on the unique degree of rapport established by the two parties involved. Just like ANY business transaction. And........no matter the type of business transaction.........sometimes there is a degree of mutual respect and understanding that transcends the transaction itself.
Why would a hobbyist tip one particular provider............and not tip another? Why would a provider genuinely enjoy a session with one hobbyist and maybe even truly reach orgasm............yet not so much with another hobbyist?
IMO you can apply these questions..........to ANY business transaction.
I gave an amazing tip to a waitress on the Las Vegas strip a while back. The service was terrible. But I could tell she was a genuinely nice person that was simply having a bad day. There was a certain positive element to our encounter (not at all sexual) in spite of the terrible service. So I felt like reaching out with my actions.........rather than intruding with my words.
At times, the human factor determines what happens between two people...........or not.
-- Modified on 2/1/2016 12:42:05 PM
...No pressure. She isn't "on". We talk about stuff. She checks her phone. I may check mine. Tell a joke or two. Talk about life. Give/get news about mutual friends. Talk about kids/grandkids (hers, mine, whichever) I'm not all touchy feely in this setting. No PDA unless she initiates and is then receptive when I reciprocate. I enjoy her company not just her body. I have to think if she didn't want to be there she would decline the invitation.
My OTC time has been about 50/50 she asked or I asked. Some I've asked said no. Some said next time and we did. I try to have no other business to attend to after sessions so I'm always able to accept the invitation if offered.
I pay. We discuss where to go based on what's available and mutually agree. Sometimes it's a place one or the other mentioned wanting to try.
-- Modified on 2/1/2016 3:52:33 PM
Was that you are respectful of the boundaries and seem to be already aware that there even are some boundaries regardless of how much money you have paid the hooker.
The notion that because a trick has paid a sometimes accumulative large sum of money, the hooker is almost obliged to do OTC shit with him is, and allow him whatever liberties he feels he deserves....because he has paid her a shit ton of money is sad. Nope, he paid the shit ton of money for the services she has already rendered. Done deal.
I have paid my hairdresser thousands of the years seeing her but nary an invite to dinner from her. And if she did accept an invite I would not expect her to keep fussing with my hair when not being paid.
I do expect at least a bit more attention on me and less on her personal business (Making calls, answering texts, etc.) then if we are on an OTC basis. Or I should say, this should be the way it is. When one is paying for time, that person has a right to her undivided attention.
I do plenty of OC and OTC social time, and honestly, there is not a lot of difference between the two in terms of what we say or do while out.
There are also a lot of sessions that go long, and I am never quite sure if we are on the clock or not, but it's also never become an issue because I'm not a stickler about these things, and seldom has any gal tested my limits either.
did someone ask you on an otc dinner/lunch date?
the obvious answer is, an otc date should not be treated like paid provider time, ie, no, a gal should be able to be herself 1000% and not perform the hard work of pretending the guy is the most wonderful, sexy thing in the world.
but of course, every guy is different, and there are tons (probably a majority) of guys that would test the limits of civility, more's the pity.
i wouldn't. i recently had a spare ticket to a movie on an afternoon which had a date to see my atf later that evening. my original civvie date fell thru for the movie (my ex-wife...dont' ask, it's complicated). i then asked my atf if she'd like to accompany otc me to the movie before our paid date. i assured her i would be a gentleman, wouldn't be sexual or even touch her, just 2 friends watching a movie.
she declined (it was star wars, and she hates star wars, which i know to be true, but hey never hurts to ask right?) but i assure you if she had taken me up on the offer i would have been a total gentleman on the otc part.
but i'm pretty damn sure that i, along with a few other gents on this board, are in the minority.
guys are pigs and they will take as much as they can.
if one of your clients has asked you out on an otc date, h+t, i would highly recommend you decide in yourself if he's trustworthy before you accept.
if nobody has, then why the hell are we still talking about this crap?
If I offer, then it is because I feel they would be a decent guy. I have been proven wrong once and I no longer see him. The first time is always a wait and see.
...what other tricks do. For me, if the lady and I are enjoying each other's company, and we decide to continue off the clock, there is really no expectations at all on my part... Other than two people enjoying spending time together... It's really not that complicated... BTW, the offer for the protein smoothie after our workout is still open. 😎
-- Modified on 2/1/2016 4:16:49 PM
they say that they want to get to know the REAL YOU???
You and I have laughed over the real us and what the clients would do if that appeared and we stepped out of the illusion act.
Granted, some dudes are very lonely and desperate. But for most guys, I'm decidedly not what the doctor (or anybody else) ordered. As one client said...'Even for this [business]....you're ODD!' And it was an agency client who said that.
I'm f***ing strange. But, I'm OK w/that
We should def have a weird-off someday Too bad we're on separate coasts!
Funny how we can keep our shit together to do this....almost lol
I've done a number of OTC dinners for good regulars (though I'd only announce that from the perch of anonymity). These dates reflect a sort of twilight zone as I'm still filtered yet also able to talk about things I can't discuss with my RL loved ones who don't know what I do.
A dinner date that is paid for means maintaining my work persona and appearance and an erotic tone with a high amount of affection.
An OTC dinner date means I'm more relaxed and we each talk about whatever we want. It's not uncommon that I may vent a bit about work machinations or family stuff while maintaining privacy about specifics. I'm not standoffish but any affection is more chaste. Warm, but not sexual.
I will say that they've (with one exception) seemed to want to make it as beneficial to me. They know visiting models can have some fairly taxing logistics and get tired of their hotel rooms, so they'll offer to bring food or take or meet me somewhere nice to get away. I'm up for it if they are a regular I trust and like and it is after work hours. (One agency wraps up the workday by 6).
-- Modified on 2/1/2016 3:49:51 PM
I pay for dinner/lunch. No kissing or touching, just having the conversation we did not have during GFE time. Her mouth was busy doing better things.
You are absolutely right a hooker will say exactly what is on her mind when she is not on the clock. Thank God for all concerned I can keep secrets to myself.
-- Modified on 2/1/2016 9:03:13 PM
First of all, all the otc dinners I've done were their idea. I would never be so bold as to make an otc overture. As for the dinners themselves, and any other extracurricular activities, the same philosophy applies. Any touching, including all the otc playtime were initiated by them. For some reason, I seem to hook up with my share of highly charged, extremely generous ladies. It's not a prerequisite because I'm very happy with one hour of playtime, but it just seems to happen a fair amount. Oh, and of the thousands of otc emails that have been shared, all topics and opinions were open, free, and easy.
Anything is initiated by the hooker.
Now you have every right to decline my invitation to lunch. But let's say you have a client who you really like, who you'd like to see on a regular basis. My advice: go to lunch with that guy, off-the-clock. Patronage is the lifeblood of any business. That guy is more likely to see you again if you spend a little extra time with him. To guys on the board, I'm merely stating the obvious. But I guarantee you that a lot of providers don't understand this post at all. To them, this post might as well have been written in Latin. --z
We get it, some hookers just don't want to do it for free.
A few guys have already mentioned the fact that once there is OTC time the trick then thinks that is SOP and some become insufferable. That is greedy and not very smart too.
Here's the deal, you ask her to dinner, she charges full freight.
If she feels you would be a decent long term john, then let her ask you and it's free meal and all.
Or she could just flat out refuse the johns invitation, deeming him not worthy of a regular or just someone she does not want unpaid time with.
-- Modified on 2/1/2016 5:18:17 PM
Shake those tricks down for every penny they've got. Get all their money now! That's your best play. They're not coming back, that's for sure. --
but coming from me that's high praise and I have to admit you are 100% correct.
It wasn't that long ago that H+T, while being definite MHB, at least had somewhat of a sense of humor. As it stands now, all I can think of after reading her posts is "Damn, I feel sorry for her clients"
What I still find a bit ironic and slightly disturbing is just how many men who otherwise seem to have their ball sacks intact are still sucking up to her and trying to kiss her ass by agreeing about how abused she is by these awful men who want to paw her after paying her thousands of dollars. I mean the very nerve of these guys, thinking they can touch her when off the clock after having fucked her a dozen times and knowing exactly how far they can stick their dick down her throat without tickling her tonsils. She is beginning to make me miss the old SS.
It's the easiest way to ruin a relationship with a paying client. Either I start to feel taken advantage of, or he ends up believing that his feelings have been used unfairly (whether that is true, or not). Or both.
While your advice might work for young, inexperienced girls who have trouble keeping regular CLIENTS, it certainly wouldn’t work - and hasn’t worked - for a serious, experienced independent who is running a long-term business.
Clients to whom I used to extend that type of deal turned into giant pains in the asses. I don’t see ANY of them anymore. Sure, they turned into regulars for the (very) short term. But in time (not even a long time…it took a few weeks, or a few months in one case), either I started to feel taken advantage of, or he started to believe that I’d abused his feelings, or both.
OTC as you think of it was a newbie mistake. I let manipulative guys talk me into it…or, I mistakenly believed it would garner me a loyal PAYING client (sorry Z, that’s an incorrect assumption. They start to think that our time is free…from constant OTC requests, to texting/calling 24/7, right on up to an overnight, or even a full relationship).
The clients to whom I extended some OTC expected it every time…and, not only that, they expected more and MORE every time. So, lunch one day turned into dinner another, then a few hours another…pretty soon, they’d be blowing up my phone, and would expect an overnight when they saw me next… Or they’d tell me, ‘Well, I can see you anytime…I cleared my whole day and night for you.’ Or, the worst case scenario…the dude thought all of the favors I was giving him meant that I was REALLY into him. Whereas, I was just thinking like ZANGARI and trying to keep a regular client loyal.
These days, I reject all OTC requests, except for very special situations. I.e., a longtime client’s milestone birthday. And even then, I phrase it in such a way that he understands that it’s a one-time thing specially meant to commemorate a special celebration…. NOT a precedent-setting event. Plus, I price my extended dates very attractively, so any client who really can’t spit out a few extra bills will come out looking like a complete cheap-ass.
They aren't jaded, at least not yet, and they can enjoy a nice meal on me w/o having to watch a clock.
Maybe that is why, at least in part, I don't see the 35+ crowd. It is for many just a business for them and so they have no desire to step out and let their hair down and fully enjoy themselves.
The younger girls seem to be more free spirited and not bogged down by all the "rules" many seem to play by here.
Of course you can run your biz any way you want Voo Doo but to me, it's a shame you don't make your decisions on a case by case basis. Seems like you have lumped all the Johns into a one size fits all category.
The younger ones, in my experience, can let loose and judge each John on his own merits.
I actually think I'm more open and LESS jaded, because I'm not continually frustrated by guys trying to manipulate me, wrangle more OTC out of me, or turn their 1-hour stay into an overnight or a love affair. It's much more enjoyable to spend time w/a guy, and much easier to be free and open w/him, when we both know that we're on the same page...that we both feel mutually satisfied and comfortable w/all aspects of our meeting.
When I was younger, I was positively irascible. I was naive and didn't know how to set limits. I got tons of those 'hey, let's go for dinner' requests after 1 hour booked (and another hour overstayed). And I'd do it (for the reasons mentioned above), then feel exhausted and irritated w/them and myself. There were other reasons for my unhappiness early on in my career, but the constant unpaid OTC expectations and manipulative overstaying was a BIG one.
As I said, my longer dates are VERY attractively priced. So, if a guy books 2 hours, then wants to 'go to dinner' ...to me, that's someone who doesn't respect my time or my boundaries. I mean, to book 2 hours and expect 4-6 when there is a 'dinner date' rate listed clearly in print on my site, for less than what 1 extra hour would ultimately cost...I mean, really.
But, I'll do OTC in certain cases. For instance, as I said, the milestone birthday. But it's only for special people I've known forever, or who I feel *really* deserve it and won't take advantage...
Oh, and I'm actually not yet a member of the 35+ club. But from what I've seen and who I've met, those ladies are at the top of their game, and get the best clients. And trust me, they let their hair down. Much more than I can, because they're just older and more comfortable w/themselves I honestly look forward to my 35+ days
...whe you get that VIP back like I taught you (yeah, I caught your propr to me and take back of same in that thread, lol) we can discuss this further.
And being jaded doesn't mean you are a bad person or bad provider....it's just not something I, or anybody I know, would want to pay for.
Sessioning with newer girls and younger girls, I just don't run into gals being burned out or jaded. Look at HT. She's burnt. She can't hide it anymore. She rarely ever talks about the hobby or the guys in a positive way. Who would want to spend one second in her presence let alone 59 minutes? Lol
Let's chat.
-- Modified on 2/2/2016 12:28:34 AM
I'm a happy, well-compensated independent who has very nice, respectful clients (for the most part). I have it good, and I'm grateful for it.
I was much more jaded and attitudinous as a younger provider. Guys ran all over me!
I do A LOT of paid dinner dates, and actually had two paid 6-8 hour engagements just last week (I also had a dinner date and a 6-8 the week before). Since I price them attractively...the guys just pay. I guess it feels reasonable to them, and they know I'll be happy w/the price since I'm the one who set it. (FYI I wouldn't characterize my longer dates as being at MSRP, since they are heavily discounted).
Dinner dates/extended dates are EXACTLY how I pay my bills. That's literally what I do for a living. If I did the whole 'stay for one hour and let's go to dinner' thing, as I did as a younger provider...I'd be broke, exhausted, and irritated. Not to mention I'd have to see many more people and spend many more hours working than I do now (which is still pretty busy)
and sticks to them are the jaded ones.
I think they feel it is incomprehensible a hooker can figure out her type and market to that and not have to see anything that waves a few benjies
If getting paid for my time is 'jaded', then I guess I am.
But, I'm happy, and my clients seem happy (all of the past 4 I have cited are either repeat clients, or have remained in contact post-date).
That also helps with longevity and a way better class of john.
Weed out the losers and time vampires and entitled creeps and you are left with a stable of decent respectful men who get treated well in kind. Yes a hooker might see the odd asshole but it is her deal to get rid of him pronto and not keep seeing him. Cultivate the ideal johns that fit your style and it really does make work way less taxing.
The hookers who keep seeing guys who walk all over them tend to get way more jaded a lot quicker than a hooker who sets boundaries and keeps them.
We all had to go through that learning curve to find the type of john we prefer to be alone with. All part of the process.
In addition, giving OTC to some men for free is a gateway to expand their manipulation, as in your examples of such behavior.
That is why I will only ask very long term trusted guys to go OTC but newer guys, I do not ask and I will always refuse if asked.
Ah, that's amazing. Your client base sounds like borderline psychopaths. I never assume anything about an OTC lunch except the following: my ATF wanted me to be a regular client. I never assumed I was her boyfriend. The only thing I assumed: she'd rather have a session with me than take a risk with a new client. I'm pretty sure most of my TER brothers think about this the same way I do. I'm sorry these things happened to you. regards, --z
As for point #1, none of the above qualified as stalking. I don't literally mean texting/calling 24/7. But, just a guy taking for granted that we're buddies, and that I'll be interested to know every time he eats a hamburger, or takes a sh**. Or, that I enjoy hanging out w/him so much that he's invited to stay after every appointment...
They thought I *also* enjoyed the time OTC. Which of course, they're going to think if I extend time, 'just because'.
The guys I'm mentioning were screened, experienced, mature hobbyists. One even posted here...every single one of them had seen multiple women over a period of many years. They were safe, and never crossed the line to THAT extent. But, it's natural to assume that if a girl give you favors...she *likes* you...
And that's where the trouble starts, whether it leads to delusions of love, or just expectations of more OTC.
It's nice that YOU can keep things in perspective. But for some guys, the lines just get blurred.
lines are an accident. I feel strongly that is it carefully orchestrated. Decent guys don't go there. They play the game and do not push boundaries.
It's a good question as if a poor woman or guy for that matter is sitting and suffering through dinner with someone with whom they are not a good match, that is painful and it would be hard to imagine how someone not wanting to be there could possibly give their undivided attention over dinner, though someone who does want to be there should be able to pretty organically.
As for being paid or not being paid, for OTC time I feel it's a whole new paradigm where my time is as valuable as hers, as I bill a good buck for that too. But I don't think of it that way and i would hope she wouldn't either. I see it as two people should go to dinner if they enjoy each other's company, regardless of what they do for a living, and if they don't enjoy each other's company the don't do OTC
If I enjoy her company, i am happy to pay for dinner or OTC together. If not, then I won't.
Dinner or lunch out somewhere aside, I like to sometimes make and bring something simple for a multiple hour date for us to enjoy in our room. It's convienient, fun, special, unique, and uncomplicated.