I have been seeing a wonderful provider, she is my ATF, and have we have met over 10 times, always for a 2 hour date, and they have all been pure heaven. So I asked her before Christmas if she would join me for a 4 hour dinner date at my favorite restaurant - a pre-Christmas treat, and this was not off-the-clock time, I expected to cover her time at her normal rates, and I asked her for a 4 hour long date.
I picked her up at her in-call, we shared a glass of wine and off we went to the dinner. Long story shore, great dinner, laughter and stories, and after paying the check, I said let's grab a cab back to your place for some more fun. My was shocked when she said she could not, but thank you for dinner, and hailed a cab, with me standing on the corner shocked and stunned. As I normally do, I presented the envelop up front, so she had the full amount, and I got no play time or dessert. This was the last thing I expected.
Now I fully understand the line - "my rates are for my time and companionship only, what happens between two consenting adults....." but hey she was a regular with me.
Now she has been texting me asking when can we get together again. I enjoy her company, but do not know how to tell her I am upset and feel she ripped me off. Somehow this needs to be resolved
you do not know how to tell her?...you just told all of us...by now you should be able to talk straight with her
I agree. This, imho, is exploitive and disrespectful on her part. ATF's come and go. Find a new one and tell her why you are looking. I guess you should have asked her if dinner would be "off the clock" before hand, but being charged the hourly rate when there is no sex involved is ridiculous. ESPECIALLY when it is four hours.
How would you feel if an attorney went to dinner with you and, without discussing any legal issues, billed you for the time at the attorney's hourly rate? I think that would be equally ridiculous.
and since you pay for time, you should have said something to her like: I'll make up for the extra time.
Then again, she might have had another appointment, or some RL obligation to take care of.
It seems strange that you two, given the extensive history, wouldn't have had some kind of discussion at the time.
But in any case, talk to her now and see what her side of things is. I can't believe that she is thinking you'd want to spend all that time and not have some fun time, but anything can happen
I've had a lot of meals that have lasted every bit of four hours.
It sounds to me like the OP got exactly what he agreed to, and what he paid for. You have to be very careful what you ask for in life, because you might just get it.
Yes, it would have been nice of her to reciprocate by including some BCD time, but according to the OP this was sort of a holiday "gift" so to speak and he is the one who tried to change the rules after the game clock had already expired. I guess he won't be making that mistake again, now will he? lol
Be Honest and Blunt with her do not let her get away with this behavior.
If it ruins the relationship which it will I can recommend ten providers in NY who would take better care of you than what your ATF did.A women can't walk all over you if you don't allow her to.
She should be ashamed the fact that she contacted you since means she sees you as a sucker.You need to speak up.
You can always bang her best friend when the message doesn't get thru. It might not get your money back but it's always fun to spice things up.
It's a dirty business.
Stand your ground.
Zak
i never book time, esp. social public time, with a provider unless both she and i are clear about how many hours are spent where doing what, and for how much, ie, send her an email before hand saying "just to be clear, you and i will be enjoying 2 hours of dinner followed by 2 hours back at your incall for the rate of yada yada yada.
You would have thought since they have seen each other a few times beforehand there would be some communication regarding this.
I think he wanted extra time after the paid for time ran out and she refused. Do we ever get the full story?
it would be really interesting if she posted her version - not to doubt the op, but I think that even when people hear the same thing they are interpreting it differently. Think Annie Hall (though I don't think that was her real name)
and then she left before the 4 hours was up. Don't you think that was an incredibly important part to omit in the beginning? He made it sound like the entire time was at dinner.
not sure if the facts are being made to fit the case, or there was a brain freeze in the op. Either way, yes - incredibly important as that takes the 4 hour argument out of play.
How hard would it have been to tell her if you don't finish the session you will have ripped me off and I will report that on your review? This needed crowd sourcing?
if the guy's seen her 10 times before and went into this without making clear the expectations, then it's on him.
he's either naive, or as you say, the dinner lasted 4 hours and he wanted extra.
Mr you are the perfect example of my post about a week ago,Dictating our own prices,everything that happen to us is our own fault,to begin with it looks like you are a very needy individual,why would you have to pay a hooker to have dinner with you?,Can you have dinner with a truly friend and share the bill?,Let the hookers pay for their dinners with the money they make from us,Why are you even considering to see her again if she ripped you off?,providers like this one and many others that are abusing us with their prices deserve that we dictate our own prices,until we do this,things like this are going to continue to happen.
-- Modified on 1/31/2016 3:31:42 PM
And btw, didn't try to dictate prices on Wall Street? You definitely should try. Or do some sort of revolution. And think about yourself as leader of course. xo
Sr the revolution is comig but very slowly in this country,look around you and think about everything that is happening.
some even made it. But in general it added little value to the people's lives. And you really sound like a punk
Prostitutes use that gimmick to fool guys into overpaying them. Looks like you got fooled.
I agree with some other poster who commented about paying a prostitute to eat. Don't you have any real friends? Real friends don't charge their friends to go out for dinner.
This prostitute that you say you've seen many times sees you as a jerk.
Respond to her reply asking when she plans on returning the money she stole from you.
Join match or eharmony. There's other sites where you can rent a friend as well.
Paying prostitutes should only be for having sex. That's why they're prostitutes.
I picked her up at her in-call, we shared a glass of wine and off we went to the dinner. Long story shore, great dinner, laughter and stories, and after paying the check, I said let's grab a cab back to your place for some more fun. My was shocked when she said she could not, but thank you for dinner, and hailed a cab, with me standing on the corner shocked and stunned. As I normally do, I presented the envelop up front, so she had the full amount, and I got no play time or dessert. This was the last thing I expected.
Now I fully understand the line - "my rates are for my time and companionship only, what happens between two consenting adults....." but hey she was a regular with me.
Now she has been texting me asking when can we get together again. I enjoy her company, but do not know how to tell her I am upset and feel she ripped me off. Somehow this needs to be resolved.
I agree 100%. in the civvie world, when you take a woman out to dinner or even several dates, you never know what you will get. What I like about our world is that you know you will get sex, even thought it might be a range of good to bad. Escorts must laugh at suckers who take them out, spend weekend with them, etc. I am 54 years old and "one and done" kind of guy, so it is usually 30 minutes of fin and 30 minutes of chat. when you meet someone at a college reunion you ask "where do you live, are you married, do you have children and what kind of job do you have". The conversation runs out pretty fast. With escorts there is only so much to talk about especially if you want to keep personal things private. There must be some guys with lots of money or very broke when they go over one hour of tome and companionship!
And that entire time was at dinner. Then you wanted more time for sex....were you going to pay for it? Or did you expect it for free?
Was this entire encounter discussed that part of the 4 hours paid for was dinner then sex until the time ran out?
Maybe I am missing something here.
In the original post he mentions a 4 hours date and then says at the ed of b=dinner she left. Very ambiguous and open to interpretation...especially when no mention of any left over time was mentioned until way later in the thread.
I don't believe him at all. I feel he thought he could grab extra time for a fuck after the time ran out because he was a regular and she was having none of it.
We had known each other a good while and had done dinner a lot. Not because I'm desperate for company as the dinner rate was cheap - but because I like her company.
So as usual, I paid up front and though dinner was longer than usual, she was never a clock watcher and we still had an hour left on the agreed to time. But she had to go. Adios. Bye bye. Infuriating. To make it worse (at least for me) she did call me the next day and asked me if I wanted to come over to her hotel at a time she knew I'd be at a huge meeting - the reason I was in town in the first place - so that didn't go over real well either and I had pretty much had it with her and chalk the money up to the equivalent of going on a bad little vacation as it was like the offer for the next day was her quid pro quo, and when I didn't take it, then somehow we were even. Not good. as i
And like you we had seen each other a lot, got along great, had done dinner before without anything like this, and she was one of the top rated women in my area - very reputable, and now this??? But then I said what the fuck, and called her for another date as I didn't want to go looking for someone else as I liked spending time with her -But I was all business too as it hit me that I had to be a business too, and said I don't know what happened and don't care but let's go to dinner, and not end the date there, and I'd like a frequent flier discount
She laughed at frequent flier and then said let's cut the rate in half for six hours and have a long night with lots of fun, which sounded great and which just about set us even. Long story short we spent that night together OTC, had a great time, are great friends, she's retired now and we're still in touch regularly and if we lived closer we'd be in a civvie relationship I have no doubt.
So my advice from my small sample, while keeping in mind that everyone's different, is
a.hit it head on, but
b.with humor and respect as given our history to that point
c. I am pretty sure there was something going on in her life that night that just threw our night totally off
So if you want to see her, try that and if you don't find a soft landing then move on, as I was ready to do.
That's my 2 cents.
-- Modified on 1/31/2016 5:36:07 PM
-- Modified on 1/31/2016 5:48:50 PM
with her wasn't a social only donation and it left you feeling used. Then the ball is her court. She'll either make it up to you because she values your biz or she'll get defensive and blow you off. If she does the ladder, move on until she comes to her senses...or doesn't.
I'm sorry this happened to you. From what you've said here you got a raw deal.
Steph xoxo
I mean he did nothing to say "hey let's get going for dessert". He let the whole time play out and then wanted more time unpaid for...that is not cool either.
Dinner was 2 hours. I paid the bill and then said why don't we go back to your place, while I was getting a cab. So know I was not looking for extra time, or OTC time. You all are right, gotta be up front with her. Thanks.
That would have been very helpful. You made it seem like the entire 4 hours was dinner and then she left.
Hmm still not sure about this....this important bit of info just now dropped in.
In the first portion (though I'm somewhat skeptical given that you are just now saying this) then that is theft and why have you not called her out on it in person, in texts, or on here?
He could not imagine that such thing might happen. And her texting him asking about next date adds to this confusion. Xo
Obviously your first post wasn't clear. Many thought you spent 4 hours at dinner.
Be upfront and tell her you want to collect on the 2 hours she still owes you. You might get radio silence and never hear from her again, or she might actually make it up to you. If it's the former, would you really want to see her again after she ripped you off? If she does offer to make it up it will probably be some compromise. I doubt she will give you a free 2 hour session, but she might give you another 4 hour date for the price of 2. Hookers never want to leave empty handed. Even when they "make it up to you," it usually involves them leaving with cash in their purse.
-- Modified on 1/31/2016 7:41:16 PM
If you booked 4 hours you should get 4 hours
I suggest that the next time she contacts you, tell her you found someone who respects you for your time and money
Move o
that a pure social date really should not cost as much as a more robust encounter lol, should it?
I know time is time and it's interpretation differs with the woman, but I think the real issue here is that this was not discussed at the outset.
That said, I will assume this cost the OP close to $1500 for four hours in NYC, and if this provider could not see fit to spend a little BCD time with him as a regular who she's spent a good deal of time with before, then I do think she has a little splaining to do - but the OP needs to realize that people interpret provisions of contracts all the time and this is a good example of there needing to be a meeting of the minds before there's a meeting of any of the other parts.
The devil is in the detail. What I find confusing is how this could have gone so wrong with her being your ATF. Sounds like there may be a bit more to the story ... btw, that's not a challenge or judgment. But inquiring minds may want to know ...
You could have wrapped up dinner whenever you wanted. If, at the two- or three-hour mark, you expressed wanting to go have some fun and she said no, that would have been a ripoff and uncool. But if you were at four hours already, you placed a bet that you would get to pay for four hours but get more and it backfired. Lesson learned. She's an opportunist, perhaps, but not a ripoff artist if she gave you her full time.
-- Modified on 1/31/2016 2:56:16 PM
What to do now: the most important thing is to take the 'L' & learn from this painful lesson. You need to drop Miss ATF. Don't reply to her texts & don't expect her to apologize. You're naive & she's greedy. That's a toxic combination. This P4P relationship has been poisoned now, & it could turn ugly. So don't see her again.
Typically a provider is cheaper than an SB, unless you want to spend multiple hours with the same girl over time. In that case, an SB is cheaper. That may be the way forward for you. A few of us have posted on the sugar scene over on the Erotic Highway board.
Next Christmas, spend your time with family & friends, you know--the people who love you. --
You had a hooker for four hours and never discussed when sex was to take place? You didn't crush it BEFORE dinner and then AGAiN after?
And people wonder why I don't do the dinner date thing. If you have lined her pocket like that, she could have tossed in the dinner otc but even if chose not to, which is her right, you HAD to discuss nailing her over dinner at some point. How does sex chat not come up over drinks or dinner in four hours???? She's a sex worker for fks sake!!!!!!!!!
It seems you led her to believe, by you NOT speaking up, that is was a sexless date.
Btw, the "play" in pay for play means "sex."
Sign up now for the fall semester at JD University.
When and if you graduate, I will give you the diploma personally and only then will you get your man card back.
Fk dude...thought I'd heard it all.
Jack, I used to think that your realistic responses about how TER folks are all Hookers and Johns was insensitive, as I felt that I was just "exploring my sexuality" with "adventurous free spirited girls". For my only two month career with only 5 providers, I never crossed the line and saw anyone more once, knew their real names, took them out for social dates in public, etc. I never had an affair or did the Sugar Daddy thing, it was just a 54 year old guy who married his first girlfriend at a young age and still happily married after 32 years. Raised two children and had some extra funds, so wanted to fuck some pretty, kinky girls in their twenties.
My wife has a full menu and very good in bed, so it wasn't about that, just wanted variety.
When I did not cover my tracks well and my wife found out, I was able to say with a straight face that it was only sex and sowing my wild oats after marriage, which is opposite of how it should be. She understood, but afraid of STD's so I was tested twice and just got my second negative results today. However, my wife feels providers as greedy nymphomaniacs with something wrong with them.
I don't agree, but I do think that seeing a woman beyond sex is an affair, plain and simple. I even tried to ask my wife if I could see providers 4 times a year and she said "I can't believe you formed your mouth to say those words", so I am retired for now. I feel better about being cut off from this world by mentally agreeing with you that we are all hookers and johns. I got so addicted to the thrill after the first time that I would have never stopped and gone broke. Four hour dates would have made me go broke even faster 
That's a pretty expensive dinner
I like to have some playtime before going out to dinner because a full stomach slows down my metabolism
Then return after dinner for dessert
I could never take that much money for time at dinner
I know many ladies do...
well I think! Hope to find out for sure. Road test on my road trip?
Nah. More like a primary destination. 
Go ahead and book another 4 hour with her and one hour before call her and cancel it,you will not get your money back but will cost her 4 hour of her time...
and then gets your revenge by keying the guys car.
The OP might not be one of our best or brightest, but he can take solace in the fact that he's not you. You sound like quite the little cunt to me. Of course I am not outright accusing you of being a cunt, that wouldn't be very nice, but you certainly sound like one and if the tampon fits.....
Thank you very much for your kind words and continue to support the hookers with you hard work,very smart....$500,$700,$900,lol
Although I don't come on the board whining about all those mean hookers charging prices I can't afford, like a certain dipshit we all know. I don't pay ridiculous prices for pussy either, but as someone who most people would consider grossly overpaid myself, I don't whine about what other people make.
I am certainly glad I don't have my car parked in the TER parking lot, I would hate to have to track you down after finding my car keyed. That is your style, isn't it? Or would you call all the local pizza parlors and have a dozen pizzas delivered to my house? Yeah, that'll teach me, won't it?
Talking about STUPID...lol
and not just stupid, but cowardly as well. Please keep up, or would you like me to type a little slower for you?
Mr there is not reason to offend people and you were the one who begin,that clearly tells me who you are,if you don't like my post don't read it!!!,have a nice evening with a hooker at $,600 an hour,lol.
So do I need to add illiterate to your growing list of shortcomings?
and if you don't like my comments directed at you, you are under no obligation to answer them. If you hadn't noticed, you look dumber and dumber with each and every post you make.
Thank you very much Mr smart,conmas are part of many articles,it helps you to read and understand better,I think that you are the illiterate in this case,just keep offending,it clearly shows who you are.
.... have been rather impressive lately.
I think I just heard about 12 ladies swoon after that one.
Don't get me wrong, you're 100% right. It's just that ... we all know his post was idiotic and it didn't really need to be pointed out. Unless it was for dramatic effect.
Calling out a little punk ass bitch, or is he more of a bitch ass punk? either way, calling him out for his cowardly way of getting even is hardly "sucking up"
Serious question for you, if calling out a cowardly john is sucking up, what do you call me for calling out a cowardly hooker? Or do you think the cowardly hooker was more in "need" of being called out?
Do you really think that "calling this person out" is going to somehow change his behavior and make him self-assess?
Do you think calling him out is going to educate others here on what is right or wrong?
Do you think calling him out somehow raised awareness of an important thing; i.e. people wouldn't have known it was wrong unless you pointed it out?
I am going to fathom a guess that the answer to all of the above questions is a big "NO," so I'm going with the idea that you occasionally enjoy putting on a show for the ladies in hopes of gaining favor. And if you are not currently aware that you do that ... then let this serve as a public service message to you that YOU DO THAT sometimes.
You're welcome.
The food may not be four star, but at least the service is, and I don't have to tip either.
This is also a good reason for overnights. Sure they may cost more, but at least you know you're going to be sliding into bed with her at some point
I'm surprised that the OP referred to this provider as his 'ATF'. All-Time-Favorite is a relative term, and I'm sure it means different things to different people. But my ATF would never have charged me for dinner--that's kind of why she was my ATF. I'd see her on a regular basis & she'd spend off-the-clock time with me. I'd pay her for an hour + gas money (she lived out of state). We'd have dinner together off-the-clock. Sometimes I'd pay for two hours & she'd spend all afternoon with me.
I remember my ATF as a quasi SB, where the P4P rules were bent, sometimes broken. Usually she'd text me for appts. I knew her real name, where she lived, and she knew the same about me. I'd take her Christmas shopping & buy toys for her young kids, and then she'd give me my christmas present in the bedroom, oh yeah. She was a very sweet person. So it's rather shocking that the OP's self-described ATF had a pre-Christmas dinner with him, took a large chunk of his money, & left him with his dick in his hand. Just so she could fuck another John at her incall. OMG.
My ATF would never have done that--not on her worst day. And I'm pretty sure most of the guys on the board feel the same way about their ATF. At least I hope so. --z
My assumption is that she felt that you knew the hobby well as you have seen her regularly so when the 4 hours ran out, she set her boundaries as always and kept it moving. It is a tough call and agreed that the communication needed to have happened prior to the date. Honestly, meet her again and talk to her...I try to mention the time frame in your case to ask if we should make a move to a more comfortble location or is this date only to be out and about together in public. That usually is met with a quickening of pace and back to the condo/hotel!
She owes him 2 hours.
in the first place. You certainly can't force yourself on someone but by the next day she must have realized she was paid for 4 hours... but the date fell far short. At that point, I'd have had to give her the benifit of the doubt but having done so the ball would be in her court to correct the misunderstanding. It would have been better to avoid the misunderstanding entirely... by explaining when you booked this non-menu date, just what your expectations were. Maybe she thought it was a generous tip? Maybe she does not count her money closely... Is it possible?
If you truely want to continue with her... and I'm not sure I would. I think you two need an adult conversation, non-acusatory but somehow this was a misunderstanding. This will be a difficult conversation, but it's that or move on. She clearly does not understand or she would not be messaging you for more dates.
I would just tell her "we need to talk".
Just tell her you were disappointed last time you met. Maybe she will do the right thing. What the heck, nothing to lose. Since you feel (understandably) ripped off, I assume you don't plan to see her again unless she makes some attempt to rectify the issue
I picked her up at her in-call, we shared a glass of wine and off we went to the dinner. Long story shore, great dinner, laughter and stories, and after paying the check, I said let's grab a cab back to your place for some more fun. My was shocked when she said she could not, but thank you for dinner, and hailed a cab, with me standing on the corner shocked and stunned. As I normally do, I presented the envelop up front, so she had the full amount, and I got no play time or dessert. This was the last thing I expected.
Now I fully understand the line - "my rates are for my time and companionship only, what happens between two consenting adults....." but hey she was a regular with me.
Now she has been texting me asking when can we get together again. I enjoy her company, but do not know how to tell her I am upset and feel she ripped me off. Somehow this needs to be resolved.