TER General Board

what if the said only black men?
613spades 5 Reviews 259 reads
posted

Either way they are targeting or excluding based on race. A really good attorney could find case law supporting that, that they placed an ad and excluded black men from arrest. It wouldn't have to go to the high court. To some extent its profiling and it's been decided by many state courts.  
     To be honest in a quick search I couldn't find what I wanted to support my case but didn't look very hard. The fact is it really doesn't matter to LE, 95% plus will plead guilty before a trial, the other five percent of its that high will spend more fighting it than they would just pleading and LE could drop or let them plead out to a lower charge at any time, LE wouldn't be civilly liable in my opinion because the intent was there to commit a crime. Whether LE approach was wrong or not the man charged is the one out.  
       If law enforcement ran a sting to only hire black hookers or buy drugs from black drug dealers yes it probably would be thrown out if it could be proven that they ignored or excluded other races. It s doing the same thing but to a smaller extent when they say "no black men" in their ads.  

Posted By: dani987x
Is there a law that says that LE cannot imitate real life sex ads when running a sting? Maybe it's a law that says that when LE runs a sting they must never suggest that anything illegal might be involved even if that "illegal" action is not even the point of the sting? So like a sting where LE pretends to be looking to hire a hooker or buy drugs would be thrown out in court? Oh oh I know, we'll ask the Supreme Court to untangle this legal conundrum because they are champing at the bit to sink their teeth into this hugely important issue.

Cory721872242 reads

Hello,

I have never gotten an escort but was thinking of starting. Ive looked at a lot of ads on backpage in my area and have noticed something.

Many state "no black men" or "only white men" or something to that effect.  

I have a theory that the ads that state a racial bias CANNOT be law enforcement.

The reasoning being that the prosecutor would have to explain WHY they were only targeting a specific racial group or excluding a racial group from the sting. The prosecutor will be unable to do this without admitting some sort of racist agenda and the defence attorney will have an extremely easy time getting the case thrown out on the grounds of discrimination.  

So ironically. If the escort is being "racist". It proves that the ad is legitimate (or add least not law enforcement)

Thoughts?

What are your own theories on spotting fake vs legit ads?

Thanks guys.

Your probably right about that.... Not that I would use that as the sole basis on whether a provider is legit.They could still be shady in other ways even if they are not le....scammers,fake pics,unclean,etc..... As for fake ads just search for the pictures or reviews...

Posted By: Cory72187
Hello,  
   
 I have never gotten an escort but was thinking of starting. Ive looked at a lot of ads on backpage in my area and have noticed something.  
   
 Many state "no black men" or "only white men" or something to that effect.  
   
 I have a theory that the ads that state a racial bias CANNOT be law enforcement.  
   
 The reasoning being that the prosecutor would have to explain WHY they were only targeting a specific racial group or excluding a racial group from the sting. The prosecutor will be unable to do this without admitting some sort of racist agenda and the defence attorney will have an extremely easy time getting the case thrown out on the grounds of discrimination.  
   
 So ironically. If the escort is being "racist". It proves that the ad is legitimate (or add least not law enforcement)  
   
 Thoughts?  
   
 What are your own theories on spotting fake vs legit ads?  
   
 Thanks guys.

GaGambler417 reads

what if you're black???

This plan isn't worth a fuck to a black man

LOL,  that guy has to look for "sorry no whites" providers. ;)

To see a racist, or to not see a racist. LE or not LE... Ure screwed lol.

Just like if I met someone who told me that they wouldn't see a girl from any specific ethnic group. I don't think I would see that person again. Thats just me though. I So respect how other people conduct their business. We all have our reasons to see or not see certain ethnic groups

But that doesn't mean the OP is screwed. Poor choice of words on your part probably. We all make our own moral or ethical choices, but if some white dude sees a provider who has a no AA policy, why would he be screwed?  :) If he has a moral dilemma with that, then he shouldn't see her.

Now for the other part of this, this topic has come up a million times but providers having a no AA policy does not necessarily mean they are racist. If it does, then explain all the black providers with no AA policies, and all the white providers with black boyfriends and half black kids running around that have no AA policy. There are different reasons and not all of them are racist.

When we as providers decide which demographic we wanna provide to. You're right. That's our choice. I defend it and respect girls who aren't all inclusive.  

When you make a statement on your ad about it. That's racism. It says nothing good about you as a person. You don't wanna label it as racism. Fine. But you gotta at least agree with me that no one should announce it like that when they don't cater to a certain ethnic group.  

Now if you think that's ok to do. Then I have a great site for you to join. Www.wherewhitepeoplemeet.com 😄

I think it should be in the ad. It should be disclosed right upfront so people don't waste their time. I have heard of black guys making appointments and then getting turned away at the door, or they knocked on the door and no one answered because of what she saw in the peephole. I think that is terrible. To go through all that and then get turned away. Isn't it better that he see up front in the ad that she won't see him, then he can just say "fuck her! Her loss." Then he can move on to someone who will be happy to see him.  

Look at lopaw who faces something different but similar. How many times has she stated that she wants to know right up front on a lady's ad, website, or FAQ if they see women? If not, she moves on and finds someone else. She doesn't want to waste her time with back and forth communication or worse yet, set up an appointment and either get turned away, or proceed and have a shitty time.

When it was supposed to be a discussion on how to spot fake ads or LE ads on backpage :D

FatVern249 reads

I will concede that it is discrimination.

Racism is discrimination based upon the belief that one race is superior to another.

 
... if a provider posts that she has a no AA policy, and claims that AA are inferior to any other race then, and only then can you consider that to be racism.

My thoughts are that if the police did post ads like that it would be discrimination, and probably would not hold up in court. However think about this:
1) Wouldn't the police in doing a sting try to make their ad sound as real as possible? So if many ads in their area say "no black men" shouldn't they put it in their fake ad too?
2) While a case based on an ad that discriminates, may not hold up in court, most of these cases never make it to court anyway. It's about catching and embarrassing the johns. Some locales post names and pictures of the arrestees prior to convictions. Many guys confess or plea out way before it gets to court.

So while your theory has some merit, and it actually has been discussed here before, I certainly wouldn't count on that alone to keep myself out of trouble. As is often said here, the best way to prevent getting in trouble (or just having a bad date)  is to stick with reputable well reviewed ladies. If you live in an area where BP is your only option, or you just like TOFTT or looking for the hidden gems, then BP can be ok, but as a newbie I would recommend against it, until you get more experience. If you do choose to hunt backpage, there are a lot of things to do to minimize your chances of getting in trouble and maximizing your chances of having a decent session.

It is a method to get convictions built upon a premise that is false i.e. a lie.

LE places an ad saying they are an escort when they are not, in actuality, all the time.

So it seems like faulty logic to say that LE can lie about who they are, but not what they write in an ad, where no discrimation is even taking place since no illegal p4p sex is occurring.

I would love to see how that defense would play out in any court room in America. I can't imagine it would be successful but are you willing to test my theory? :)

And like storm said, it isn't the guilty verdict that is the issue for 95% of the johns. It is the arrest, regardless of the final outcome in the courts, that does all the damage.

LasVegan303 reads

agree with you more.  If I were the prosecutor.........my reply would be........."your honor, after viewing countless ads, we believed if we mirrored what many of the ads say........our ad would sound more realistic.........and we would attract more perpetrators."

but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express once.
Anyway I might be full of shit but I do believe a good defense lawyer could win the case because of discrimination in the ad. Even if lost in the low courts eventually it could get thrown out in the Supreme Court. But, and it's a big BUT, who the fuck is going to spend many thousands in legal fees while dragging his name through the cow pasture to carry it that far?

 I have no doubts that LE would word their ads just like the common ads in their area, and make lots of arrests, and get plenty confessions and plea outs, and not give 2 shits about convictions, discrimination lawsuits, or the Supreme Court.

Sure, hypothetically, a good lawyer or a bad one for that matter, can get a highly improbable outcome. No doubt. But the question is where is the discrimination if no one is discrimation against?

It is also an illegal activity so I don't know how that would factor in. This wouldn't be like a civie business discriminating against a minority and not serving them in their restauarant merely bc they were black.

LE is allowed to lie. We know that. Couple that precedent with the fact that no discrimation actually took place would put a judge in a very difficult spot to side against the arrest, imo.

A case going all the way to the SC wouldnt cost thousands, as I believe that would cost in the millions, furthering your point about this being moot.

I am not a lawyer either, but I think LE would know what to do to make a court challenge very difficult. Maybe someone else can weigh in who is, but even then, I think they would admit they could not say to any degree of certainty how any specific judge would rule. But neither can I.

It's intereting discussion, I will grant you that, but as you and I both acknowledge, the damage done is the arrest, not the conviction.

GaGambler258 reads

It goes to the idea of "selective enforcement" of the law due to race. It would be interesting to watch as the usual way this defense is used is when minorities are singled out for prosecution, not when white people are targeted.

It sounds like a lot of effort for little benefit, but in theory it could work.

A judge who follows the letter of the law should throw it out. But for most the damage is in being arrested and charged. LE has no real responsibility to be honest and probably would have no liability if they did post an ad excluding certain races but their evidence probably would be thrown out. It s not dissimilar to LE profiling and stopping certain races on the street and not harassing others.  
      But like I said the small fine or even john classes isn't the true impact of a solicitation charge for most, it's the loss of wives, jobs, family and friends. Not to mention 10k in lawyers fees to get out of a $500 fine.

Is there a law that says that LE cannot imitate real life sex ads when running a sting? Maybe it's a law that says that when LE runs a sting they must never suggest that anything illegal might be involved even if that "illegal" action is not even the point of the sting? So like a sting where LE pretends to be looking to hire a hooker or buy drugs would be thrown out in court? Oh oh I know, we'll ask the Supreme Court to untangle this legal conundrum because they are champing at the bit to sink their teeth into this hugely important issue.

Either way they are targeting or excluding based on race. A really good attorney could find case law supporting that, that they placed an ad and excluded black men from arrest. It wouldn't have to go to the high court. To some extent its profiling and it's been decided by many state courts.  
     To be honest in a quick search I couldn't find what I wanted to support my case but didn't look very hard. The fact is it really doesn't matter to LE, 95% plus will plead guilty before a trial, the other five percent of its that high will spend more fighting it than they would just pleading and LE could drop or let them plead out to a lower charge at any time, LE wouldn't be civilly liable in my opinion because the intent was there to commit a crime. Whether LE approach was wrong or not the man charged is the one out.  
       If law enforcement ran a sting to only hire black hookers or buy drugs from black drug dealers yes it probably would be thrown out if it could be proven that they ignored or excluded other races. It s doing the same thing but to a smaller extent when they say "no black men" in their ads.  

Posted By: dani987x
Is there a law that says that LE cannot imitate real life sex ads when running a sting? Maybe it's a law that says that when LE runs a sting they must never suggest that anything illegal might be involved even if that "illegal" action is not even the point of the sting? So like a sting where LE pretends to be looking to hire a hooker or buy drugs would be thrown out in court? Oh oh I know, we'll ask the Supreme Court to untangle this legal conundrum because they are champing at the bit to sink their teeth into this hugely important issue.

Posted By: JackDunphy
It is a method to get convictions built upon a premise that is false i.e. a lie.  
   
 LE places an ad saying they are an escort when they are not, in actuality, all the time.  
   
 So it seems like faulty logic to say that LE can lie about who they are, but not what they write in an ad, where no discrimation is even taking place since no illegal p4p sex is occurring.  
   
 I would love to see how that defense would play out in any court room in America. I can't imagine it would be successful but are you willing to test my theory? :)  
   
 And like storm said, it isn't the guilty verdict that is the issue for 95% of the johns. It is the arrest, regardless of the final outcome in the courts, that does all the damage.
Exactly!  
But judge...  You can't convict me because the ad on backpage said no "aa"
Yes I did try to pay for sex but the ad is racist..  I don't think that will work in court.

Judge, I shot this guy cause he was a racist and called me a *******...  Would that work?

You are playing racial card started this thread.All people dicrimination on something..Maybe hookers had bad experiences

Posted By: Cory72187
Hello,  
   
 I have never gotten an escort but was thinking of starting. Ive looked at a lot of ads on backpage in my area and have noticed something.  
   
 Many state "no black men" or "only white men" or something to that effect.  
   
 I have a theory that the ads that state a racial bias CANNOT be law enforcement.  
   
 The reasoning being that the prosecutor would have to explain WHY they were only targeting a specific racial group or excluding a racial group from the sting. The prosecutor will be unable to do this without admitting some sort of racist agenda and the defence attorney will have an extremely easy time getting the case thrown out on the grounds of discrimination.  
   
 So ironically. If the escort is being "racist". It proves that the ad is legitimate (or add least not law enforcement)  
   
 Thoughts?  
   
 What are your own theories on spotting fake vs legit ads?  
   
 Thanks guys.
-- Modified on 1/24/2016 5:22:49 AM

...and get yourself a TER VIP membership. Then do your due diligence.

In NY you probably have no reason to look at BP. In some areas BP is actually the best or only resource. I still agree with you on the TER VIP though. Use TER (and other sites) to cross reference what you find on BP, if you must use BP.

Sorry to hear the pickings are slim in your neighborhood. Yeah, NY hs it all. But we have to pay!

Cory72187272 reads

I understand what you guys mean about the cops not giving a damn about the actual conviction. But they open themselves up to lawsuits if they openly discriminate in their enforcement of the law.

For example. If you had a traffic cop that litterally just turned his radar off when he saw black drivers (not even trying to catch them) and then turned it back on for white drivers (trying to catch them). Do you think that department isnt going to get completley wrecked in court?

Thats my point. Think of it like any other illegal activity. The cops CANNOT openly discriminate like that or they open the department itself up to major issues.

I hear what yall are saying though. Reviews are important. And maybe the judge doeant give a crap about them diacriminating in their emforcement. Im just not sure if TER has much in my area. Can anyone check pensacola for me on there if you have it? If the listings are good and plenty i have no problem. But if its like 5-10 bucktoothed sea donkeys id rather not.

Even if your area isn't a high hobby area I'm sure if you google phone numbers things are bound to come up in the review boards RS or P411 and I enjoy my Twitter feed, there are ladies everywhere! Please do your homework and don't comeback as a guy who had to take one for the team.  Those stories saddens me. Good luck, stay safe.

First, you are assuming that LE placed only a single ad saying “no AA men.” That is not how they do it. Stings are too expensive to set up based on a single ad. So they run multiple ads most of which would be racially neutral.  This would negate any selective arrest or prosecution defense if the ad led to an arrest.

          Second, as a practical matter, you are not going to be arrested until you show up at the location and solicit the undercover officer.  That is where the crime occurs and at this point your arrest is objectively  reasonable. SCOTUS has said that an initial discriminatory intent does not violate equal protection, or the 4th amendment, if subsequently an objectively reasonable reason exists for the stop or arrest.

        Third, to prove selective arrest or prosecution you have the burden of showing that members of the non-targeted class are not arrested or prosecuted. So you would ultimately have to show blacks are not arrested for prostitution in this particular jurisdiction.

       Fourth, there would rarely be civil liability here. The individual officers would have qualified immunity; the police department would not be liable absent proof of a pattern and practice –i.e, other  efforts to arrest whites and not blacks for this crime

Backpage is not evil as some people make it out to be. It is simply an ad site, and there are some good providers on there, but there are also tons of scams, bait and switches, police stings and other bad things to be found on BP. I still don't ususlly recommend a newbie start there. You still have other options. While Pensacola doesn't have tons of options like some other cities, there are TER ladies who work there or visit. Search reviews here. Pensacola is not one of the listed cities, but I just found results by searching, United States, All Cities, and putting Pensacola, in the location box. Check the Florida ad board, and watch for ladies advertising your area. Are you able to travel? How about checking out other nearby cities? Look at the Alabama ad board. Join p411, and use their resources. I just checked and found at least 16 providers listed in Pensacola and about 6 in Mobile, Alabama on P411. Look at other review boards. TER is not the only review site. TER is the biggest but doesn't cover all areas and sometimes a smaller local board has better coverage. We can't mention other boards on TER, but they are not hard to find.  

If you insist on BP, here are some things to look for:
When you find an ad that interests you, Google the phone number, see what pops up. Does that phone number lead to reviews? Does it lead to other ads by the same lady? Does it lead to multiple ads by different people in different cities at the same time?
Also google email addresses and other things found in the ad. Google her name.
Image search the pics. Use google image search and tineye. Are the pics stolen from a model website, or porn star? Somebody's Facebook page? Or do the pics show up in BP ads all over the country under different names and phone numbers? Or do they lead all to the same ads?
Does the ad look to good to be true? Super hot model with $80 rates? Don't even bother doing more research. You know that one is a fake. Just move on.
Has the ad been running for a while? Or is it brand new? Usually LE will not repeat ads, because once they use it and bust a bunch of people, word gets out, and they burn the ad and use another, with different phone number and pics. (Now I said "usually." Nothing is 100%, and it's possible they would repeat an ad. These are just general guidelines.  

There are so much more things, I can almost write a book. The main thing is use your big head. Think things out. Use your gut feelings. If something doesn't feel right, bale. Most of these things get better with experience though. You develop your "spidey sense." It is tough for a newbie to jump into BP and be successful. This is why we always tell newbies to stick to well reviewed ladies.

-- Modified on 1/24/2016 11:03:10 AM

CuriousSort343 reads

Here is a police sting Ad that was used last march.  Its interesting how they try and make it look like a lot of the other Ads.

 

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I am an extremely down to earth, smart, AND sexy. Come and enjoy me. You will want to come back for more ; )

As they say BRUNETTE'S do it better!!
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Brandi: 763-TWO ONE THREE-986ONE

but a racist provider honestly in these days that is just not cool.

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