Hey there fellow deviants,
I was just wondering about the "line" between a true provider and a potential LE undercover operation. Exactly what has to transpire in order for you to be considered "soliciting" or having "intent" to solicit? Obviously, a clear exchange of money for sex would do it. But, what if you keep everything murky over the phone, get there, and ask to "get going with a nude or topless massage."? Even if you exchange money at that point, have you broken any laws? Once the girl gets nude and begins touching you, are you safe (from an LE perspective)? Can the cops have a provider who is working for them get nude to see how far things will go, then bust you if it moves to sex? What items can one have on their person that would lend themselves to more likely being a John than a guy just looking for a nude massage? Isn't it okay for a guy to carry a condom in his wallet any day of the week?
including mine, a nude massage or even topless is illegal. Not a felony, but why open yourself up to even a minor charge that could lead to additional le scrutiny and possibly other problems?
It's been repeated here a few billion times, but the best way to stay out of trouble is to stick to well-reviewed providers.
Odds are if you get alone in a room with LE you will not like the outcome. That's why it is best not to be in the room with LE. That is why I preach screening. Here is a link to how:
The old saying, "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." is so true. But if you do get unlucky and ensure of screening one runs into LE things will go better for you if you know what to do and are prepared. Here is a like on dealing with LE:
http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion_boards/viewmsg.asp?MessageID=22842&boardID=25&page=1#22842
Anyway screen, as there is no LE check once in the room. If you are confronted by LE know your rights and STFU.
Just showing up at a sting will get you arrested 99% of the time, whether or not they can convict you is another matter, but for most married guys or church goers, or anyone else who want to hide the fact that they see prostitutes the arrest is much more damaging than the conviction anyhow.
The key is to not end up in the same room with LE in the first place. People here have been searching for the "magic bullet" that will keep them safe from getting arrested in they walk into a sting and no such magic bullet exists. There is no LE check, the cops can stretch, bend or outright break the law and if they want to arrest you there is nothing you can do to stop them. Once arrested your new goal is to keep from getting convicted and as I hope EVERYBODY here already knows the best way to keep from getting convicted is to use your constitutional right to STFU. Ask for your lawyer and otherwise don't get trapped into trying to explain yourself. The cops may lie, but one thing they tell you when reading you your Miranda rights is absolutely true, "Anything you say can and will be used against you" So why give them more ammo than they already have?
It really doesn't matter what you say or do.
Stick to well reviewed gals and don't fret.
In New York and I believe also in New Jersey, it's a felony to give massages if you are unlicensed.
(Getting licensed takes 2 years of school and thousands of dollars.)
That's why many ladies use the term "bodyrub" instead of "massage."
I am unsure of whether the legal consequences of a client going in for an unlicensed massage are different than a client going in for prostitution, but I would guess it is about the same in New York.
I'm not a lawyer, but I would have figured the opposite
It's similar to hiring a plumber or electrician. I should probably check their license but a good reputation and references is usually good enough to fix a light. For a major job and a really low bid, I had better check their licenses or I could be charged with gross stupidity or worse. Did I really think that huge underbid was legit and that structure wouldn't burn down with slipshod workmanship? I think I'd have some liability.
But for an unloicensed massage? I'm just not feeling it :-
In the state of Il anyone accepting money for massage must be a licensed and registered with the the department of professional regulations. If your caught giving an unlicensed massage I believe it is a $50 fine in court. A licensed massage therapist always refers to them self as a LMT. The term Certified massage therapist is a joke to the professional industry but the general public doesn't know the difference. Bodywork when working with a professional body worker isn't regulated by the state but rather upkeep of certification. It generally refers to manual therapies of soft tissue but one key is the client doesn't need to undress .
Any questions ask.
In the military, if captured, all you are required to provide, theoretically at least, is name, rank, and serial number. Bit if LE nabs you, I think you have to provide name, address, age, occupation, and other stuff. Correct? Do the requirements vary in different jurisdictions?
name and address, and that's it.
You can refuse to give out even that, but LE can hold you until they know who you are, so it's the same as being arrested.
(still not a lawyer)
Well unless driving, or performing a job requiring a licence or premit then other requirements exists. You must declare any concealed weapons. There is some variations in different states. LE can hold you until they obtain your identity if they have reason to suspect a crime has been committed so showing ID isn't a bad idea but often is not required.
Before I identify myself I would ask if you can leave, if yes go, if not you establish the encounter is not volintary. After I identify myself, I would state as plainly but respectfully as I could that I am using my fifth amendment right to remain quite and that I want my lawyer. If the cops ask to search something, frisk me, or start searching something, I would verbally state clearly that I refuse all searches. I would comply with all comas but verbally refuse each search clearly twice. If I could I would record the encounter. The most important thing is do not talk to cops. The answer for every question other than Identifying yourself is some variation of "I am excersizing my right to remain silent.", "I want a lawyer.", "I refuse all searches.", and/or "Am I free to go or am I being detained?". Other than that shut up nothing you say can help you and everything can and will be used against you.
I am not a lawyer.
-- Modified on 11/3/2015 4:08:24 PM
Yes, some places require you to identify yourself, and others do not. Cops can, and will, ask/demand anything of you, but you don't have to answer most of the time, HOWEVER, do NOT give a fake name or lie because that is illegal. It's your word against the cops so guess who the judge is going to side with? They lie, intimidate, and trick people daily as part of their job so you are not going to beat them at their own game no matter how smart you think they are.
LE uses "flipped" providers all the time AND before people start screaming, "that's entrapment ... you can sue and get a bazillion dollars ..." I say, REALLY? LE is only concerned with the number of arrests, and the convictions are someone else's job. They don't care. Good luck finding a good lawyer. A few months ago I emailed about 12 attorneys who had ads up stating they represented clients charged with solicitation. I just wanted a contact, "just in case". I offered a retainer. To date, NOT one has replied. Lawyers will only talk to you AFTER you have been charged it seems because there is no money to be made unless you are charged The lawyer busting into the LE office during questioning and yelling, "DON'T ANSWER THAT!" does not happen in real life. LE can lie, and pull every dirty trick in the book to get a bust. They can get nude and there have been cases where they crossed the line such as male officers having sex and then arresting providers. Do they admit to that? HELL NO! To answer your question, LE can use a "flipped" provider to perform a sexual act on you for money, film it, and then arrest you in your birthday suit. The claim will be that you started the sexual act and they were too late to stop it. Do you want that video shown in court or do you just want to plead guilty right now and prevent that?
I've said it before and I'll say it again. In AZ it doesn't matter if you grab a titty or they stroke your cock. As long as they did not convince you to do something you were not already planning to do then it is in no way entrapment. However, typically you pay upfront. All of hookers I see are happy to get paid after the act with no talking of $$$$. It's a win win because I am an honest guy. If I do get busted on a pay after play, well then at least I go to the can with a smile on my face.
Morning sex in jail won't make you smile
Cops lie all the time and will do whatever it takes to make a bust. They will cross the line including full on sex just to make a bust. And i am a lawyer
Hello there! Any and all subjects about LE kind of refresh the nervousness of wanting to meet new people. I have had one solo meeting and only a couple double meetings with friends who are providers. Seeing as I'm one who hasn't any reviews yet, are any steps I can take to ease the discomfort of an interested party in this aspect. I know that we cannot be "ok'd" by other providers as someone not wanting this kind of trouble, but how would I go about letting prospective hobbist know I do have references from respectable providers in my area? Could providers reference be enough to assist in me acquiring my first hobbyist willing to submit a review?
that a fellow with 35 reviews since 2003 would post this question.
The fellow deviants did get my radar pinging