TER General Board

You really want me to break down how much it costs me to put on eye shadow?
MissErinBlack See my TER Reviews 661 reads
posted

Because I can.  I have the numbers.  I'm pretty anal-retentive when it comes to doing my taxes and figuring out my costs. I can tell you how much it costs me in time and materials per each session, including transportation costs, lube use, and the resulting laundry. I can tell you how much it costs for me to turn a light on in my incall space, or how much internet I have to use in order to stream music for a date. But that information is extraneous to the question that was posited originally.  

I've never been in a situation where I had to stop a session for the reason the OP stated.  If someone booked a session with me and didn't disclose the increased risk id encounter due to him having a condition which i could contract via touch, Then dropped trow or took off a shirt only to have something that's visually questionable, they'd be asked to go and they would not be offered a refund.  

If i cannot safely touch someone, there is no reason for them to stay.  In the case of a parasitic infection like scabies, a fungal infection like ringworm,or a bacterial infection like MRSA,  that person has contaminated my incall and my incall would then have to be treated as such.  New bedding, pillows, etc can certainly add up quickly. Even for a much simpler to treat yet highly contagious overgrowth like Thrush or Candida Overgrowth, medical intervention is necessary should a hooker contract it from a john. Doctor's bills for any treatment that might be needed would add up quickly.  Lost wages might even come into play, and that could be lost wages from both johns and any other form of employment should a hooker have actually contracted something. This is all pretty basic from an operational cost stand-point, which is why it's best to mitigate situations like the OP described in the first place.

By scheduling and confirming a booking with a hooker, a client is attesting to their ability to be appropriately hygienic and healthy within the means of appropriate risk associated with p4p. If a client develops a condition that renders them neither of those things, the booking should be cancelled by the client.  

Is your argument that the client may not know that he's contagious? If that's the argument, the client would have to acknowledge that he's got something unusual going on that renders risk that's higher than the normally anticipated risk associated with p4p;  the client still booked the session under false pretenses.  If a client knows what's going on and it isn't contagious (say the client has contact dermatitis, eczema, psoriasis,etc), the client should let the provider know before the date (i've had this happen on a few different occasions. Eczema flares happen. No big deal, as long as i know ahead of time).  

BUT FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT'S HOLY JUST DONT SHOW UP TO A SESSION IF YOURE NOT HEALTHY ENOUGH TO PARTICIPATE. Problem solved.


-- Modified on 10/12/2015 11:31:31 PM

curiouscious2198 reads

...his non STD diseases before meeting you first time. Maybe he has some communicable skin disease and its completely fine to interract...

1. He did his homework before meeting you. He read your reviews and knows your Do's and Dont's and has high expectations. And you are aware he will be leaving a feedback.

2. He is arriving to the location, coming up, getting comfortable and you see physical appearance of his body parts are not like usual. You are not a doctor to evaluate, if it is contagious or not. He more likely won't have a paper proof(recent statement from his family doctors, describing his disease) that its ok to freely interact with other people.

N.B! How will you handle this date. Remember, you don't know nothing until you see him and its your first time with him.

-- Modified on 10/11/2015 7:34:47 PM

curiouscious722 reads

Provider is the one who is getting reviewed afterwards not hobbyist.

You know what she's thinking? She's maybe thinking...  

"Well here is a horny guy that hires hookers. A lot of guys try to go bareback, and he might be one. Maybe he has a disease from that. And since he is hiring hookers, he more than likely has a wife or girlfriend he is cheating on, or is the sort of guy that cannot keep a wife or girlfriend. So I can't really trust him or like him. He is no doubt lying to me somehow about something, because he doesn't trust me either. He is horny and desperate. He would easily lie about some condition. I am so used to being stigmatized and devalued by society because of my job that it is easy to imagine this client not valuing my health, just like all those guys that try to go bareback or insist on BBBJCIM, or want to do me anally even though would they want a dick up their ass as many times as I have to take it?"

Would you think that and believe the guy when he told you that shiny bumpy rash was not contagious

You sound like a good candidate. The lack of respect and concern for the ladies is disturbing to say least.

Posted By: curiouscious
Provider is the one who is getting reviewed afterwards not hobbyist.

curiouscious616 reads

I`m not a hobbyist the one who has a disease, but someone who represents a provider in this industry.

And again, please, this question is to the ladies, not you guys.

...at least buy her health insurance if you're so worried about what she diseases she may catch from her clients?

Ok guys, did you see that? He said ladies only! How dare you reply to a post on a public board addressed only to the ladies? Shame!

I their defense, Reading comprehension has never been a strong skill of the average TER member  

Posted By: perfectstorm
Ok guys, did you see that? He said ladies only! How dare you reply to a post on a public board addressed only to the ladies? Shame!

But of course I was being sarcastic, the point being this is a public board and you don't get to decide who replies to your posts! :)

...by what they don't understand.  I am not an elephant! I am not an animal! I am a human being! I am a man

Ruckerman2558 reads

Pay for several abortions. Don't know whAt they cost today. Also can they help with STD's?

...misplace your post because you're using Flat instead of Tree?  Newbies!!!

skarphedin566 reads

You (your friend) should never put herself at risk. If she doesn't feel comfortable then she should stop the appointment. One bad review is not going to end a career after all.  

If it were me, I would want and hope the escort would discuss it and be specific. Maybe the guy doesn't know?  

But then again, we hear again and again how reluctant escorts are due to physical risk.

IF anything looks like it might be contagious, there's no way i'm touching it, review or not. I don't care if it's not an STI; if a dude has jock itch, ringworm, shingles, chicken pox, scabies, or any number of other communicable skin infection, I'm not touching him.  He shouldn't even be booking providers if he's got a communicable disease like any of those. I'm not risking weeks/months/a lifetime of health issues for one dude, regardless if he's a reviewer or not. NOPE. A guy could say all he wants about me in a review if he comes at me with a bunch of communicable diseases.  If he reviews me because I won't interact with him due to those disease, you can bet that I'd be responding to that review on my regional board.  

Now, after all that, this is how I would handle the date.  

"Well, since you booked time with me knowing you had a health issue that could have possibly been contagious and could have caused me health issues as well, I'm going to have to ask you to leave."

No refund. No "you can rebook with me once you've healed". Nope.  He was rude enough to book an appointment with a health issue like that?  Nah.  He'd go on my personal blacklist and probably find his way onto others.  Fucking with your own health is one thing.  Knowingly showing up for a date with a communicable disease is quite another and it's completely inexcusable.  

If a dude has something like psoriasis or eczema, that's a different story.  That's not communicable, but it sure can look bad and be really painful.  If he's got a condition like that, he's not obligated to tell you about it.  If it's in his groin area, you could ask him about it.  Quite frankly though, if he's got a flare-up, he should be telling you about this before hand as to spare both of you some embarrassment

I'm just making an assumption here and I could be wrong, but I think he meant non communicable, since he kept specifying that "it's ok to interact," "Dr says it's okay to interact, but he doesn't have papers to prove it," etc.  
In his follow up post, he did say that English is not his first language, and he also said "pediatrician" in his OP, before he edited it to "doctor." So based on those things, I guess the "communicable" part is a mistake.  

However, if I was a provider, I would still turn him down and send him on his way, unless I could identify the condition and knew for a fact myself it was not contagious, but most providers are not Doctors, snd of coursd your safety comes first.

EVERYTHING is YMMV, and some of that is largely based on how up-to-par someone's hygiene/health is. If a dude shows up with a contagious (or "communicable," in the parlance of the OP) skin condition that he was willing to expose me to, that demonstrates a complete disregard for my health. Hell to the no. If he wants to use the remainder of his time chit-chatting or taking a nap, no problem. But he would have no right to expect any money back. We have the absolute right to deny any service if we feel it's necessary for the sake of health or hygiene. If a guy like that doesn't want to spend the cash if he's not getting the full gambit of services, then he shouldn't book time knowing that his physical condition could adversely affect the provider.

skarphedin501 reads

And I am not defending this hypothetical guy in this hypothetical situation. And you are not talking about YMMV and a partial denial of services. You specifically state that you would completely deny him service. And if an escort doesn't do anything and keeps your money, she robbed you. If you kick him out you should throw his money out after him. Let's be clear, neither of you have offered any justification for keeping his money other than you are pissed and he is a bad person. Fair enough and those are grounds to kick him out. But those are not valid grounds to keep his money. Moreover, in this hypothetical there is no physical injury. Now if you want to, you could argue that he has cost you an hour of your time and that he should forfeit his money because of that. But neither of you have argued that. And to do so would be disingenuous at this point.

Posted By: skarphedin
And I am not defending this hypothetical guy in this hypothetical situation. And you are not talking about YMMV and a partial denial of services. You specifically state that you would completely deny him service. And if an escort doesn't do anything and keeps your money, she robbed you. If you kick him out you should throw his money out after him. Let's be clear, neither of you have offered any justification for keeping his money other than you are pissed and he is a bad person. Fair enough and those are grounds to kick him out. But those are not valid grounds to keep his money. Moreover, in this hypothetical there is no physical injury. Now if you want to, you could argue that he has cost you an hour of your time and that he should forfeit his money because of that. But neither of you have argued that. And to do so would be disingenuous at this point.
I did make that point. That was actually the entire basis of my response, hence the mention of "he can still chill for the rest of his time" and that he shouldn't have booked the TIME if he had something that would make someone not want to have physical contact with him. I didn't even say I'd kick him out (I might, it'd depend on the circumstances). But if I get all beautified, book a hotel room, decline other dates, etc. to accommodate someone who tries to expose me to some sort of nastiness, I'm getting paid.  

Of course, if I were advertising myself as offering particular services for x amount of money, then sure, your point would make sense. I guess we could get into the semantics of what constitutes "time and companionship," but as far as what most of us advertise, we're getting paid by the hour (or 1/2hr or 6 hours or whatever the case may be). No one is entitled to any particular service(s), and having some sort of contagious shit seems like a valid reason to be refused when it comes to any sort of physical activity. If he isn't cool with a non-physical date, then I'd consider that a last minute cancellation and, therefore, my full donation would still apply. Honestly, though, I can't imagine what kind of a person would expect a refund at that point. This is just common decency shit.

Bob.Sugar470 reads

Anyone setting up a session with you (or anyone that's advertising as a hooker) is only doing so to have sex.

To attempt to pretend this is something else is moronic.  You know that!

And as others have commented here...NONE of you are qualified to make a medical opinion here.  So if YOU decide that some guy is dirty, and want to cancel...no problem.  But to assert that the guy owes you a phucking dime is just idiotic.

As I posted earlier...fraud is the legal definition of this game you're suggesting.  Look it up if you need further clarification.

Posted By: Tobi Telford
 
   
Posted By: skarphedin
And I am not defending this hypothetical guy in this hypothetical situation. And you are not talking about YMMV and a partial denial of services. You specifically state that you would completely deny him service. And if an escort doesn't do anything and keeps your money, she robbed you. If you kick him out you should throw his money out after him. Let's be clear, neither of you have offered any justification for keeping his money other than you are pissed and he is a bad person. Fair enough and those are grounds to kick him out. But those are not valid grounds to keep his money. Moreover, in this hypothetical there is no physical injury. Now if you want to, you could argue that he has cost you an hour of your time and that he should forfeit his money because of that. But neither of you have argued that. And to do so would be disingenuous at this point.
   
 I did make that point. That was actually the entire basis of my response, hence the mention of "he can still chill for the rest of his time" and that he shouldn't have booked the TIME if he had something that would make someone not want to have physical contact with him. I didn't even say I'd kick him out (I might, it'd depend on the circumstances). But if I get all beautified, book a hotel room, decline other dates, etc. to accommodate someone who tries to expose me to some sort of nastiness, I'm getting paid.  
   
 Of course, if I were advertising myself as offering particular services for x amount of money, then sure, your point would make sense. I guess we could get into the semantics of what constitutes "time and companionship," but as far as what most of us advertise, we're getting paid by the hour (or 1/2hr or 6 hours or whatever the case may be). No one is entitled to any particular service(s), and having some sort of contagious shit seems like a valid reason to be refused when it comes to any sort of physical activity. If he isn't cool with a non-physical date, then I'd consider that a last minute cancellation and, therefore, my full donation would still apply. Honestly, though, I can't imagine what kind of a person would expect a refund at that point. This is just common decency shit.

But my point is that there's no obligation to engage in physical activity. That's why I mentioned the "everything is YMMV" concept.  

Posted By: Bob.Sugar
Anyone setting up a session with you (or anyone that's advertising as a hooker) is only doing so to have sex.  
   
 To attempt to pretend this is something else is moronic.  You know that!  
   
 And as others have commented here...NONE of you are qualified to make a medical opinion here.  So if YOU decide that some guy is dirty, and want to cancel...no problem.  But to assert that the guy owes you a phucking dime is just idiotic.  
   
 As I posted earlier...fraud is the legal definition of this game you're suggesting.  Look it up if you need further clarification.  
   
Posted By: Tobi Telford
 
     
Posted By: skarphedin
And I am not defending this hypothetical guy in this hypothetical situation. And you are not talking about YMMV and a partial denial of services. You specifically state that you would completely deny him service. And if an escort doesn't do anything and keeps your money, she robbed you. If you kick him out you should throw his money out after him. Let's be clear, neither of you have offered any justification for keeping his money other than you are pissed and he is a bad person. Fair enough and those are grounds to kick him out. But those are not valid grounds to keep his money. Moreover, in this hypothetical there is no physical injury. Now if you want to, you could argue that he has cost you an hour of your time and that he should forfeit his money because of that. But neither of you have argued that. And to do so would be disingenuous at this point.
 
     
  I did make that point. That was actually the entire basis of my response, hence the mention of "he can still chill for the rest of his time" and that he shouldn't have booked the TIME if he had something that would make someone not want to have physical contact with him. I didn't even say I'd kick him out (I might, it'd depend on the circumstances). But if I get all beautified, book a hotel room, decline other dates, etc. to accommodate someone who tries to expose me to some sort of nastiness, I'm getting paid.    
     
  Of course, if I were advertising myself as offering particular services for x amount of money, then sure, your point would make sense. I guess we could get into the semantics of what constitutes "time and companionship," but as far as what most of us advertise, we're getting paid by the hour (or 1/2hr or 6 hours or whatever the case may be). No one is entitled to any particular service(s), and having some sort of contagious shit seems like a valid reason to be refused when it comes to any sort of physical activity. If he isn't cool with a non-physical date, then I'd consider that a last minute cancellation and, therefore, my full donation would still apply. Honestly, though, I can't imagine what kind of a person would expect a refund at that point. This is just common decency shit.

The way I read the OP, the client is aware of this skin problem before the date takes place. My assumption is that the booking takes place while the client has said skin malady and the client goes through with the booking and doesn't make the provider aware of the malady prior to the date taking place.  

So, the client is committing fraud and/or gross negligence in this case by misrepresenting himself in order to enter into a service contract.  

It seems, in this hypothetical, there is a very clear scienter.  Just like, how in the case of a provider who uses fake photos to get bookings.  That's fraud; the client has every right not to go through with the session he booked because she misrepresented herself.  In the original hypothetical, the client misrepresented himself from the very start, and the provider didn't know about it until they got down to business. She is not falsely advertising and is physically capable of rendering her services under normal circumstances.  The hypothetical is not a normal circumstance, since the client obtained the booking fraudulently.  



-- Modified on 10/12/2015 8:34:55 PM

Of course she saw it. AFTER the session had already began. Had she seen it or known about it prior to the session starting, there wouldnt have been a booking in the first place.  

The booking was made under false pretenses. The client made the booking knowing a few things:
1. Providers book clients that they can render services to within the range of accepted risk
2. By not disclosing his health issue, the provider would assume that he is healthy enough to receive services within the range of acceptable risk

If the client disclosed, the booking wouldn't have been made.

Seriously, in what universe are escorts advertising that all services are guaranteed or your money back? For this situation to constitute fraud, we'd basically have to put in our ads that you can show up with Greyscale and we're obligated to either carry on as if you're not gross OR eat whatever costs we incurred/wages we lost in the event that you show up with something we can catch.  

You said there's no scienter in this hypothetical, but the OP is talking about a dude showing up for an appointment knowing full well that he's got some sort of nastiness. There's your scienter right there. If you knowingly expose someone to something that's contagious, that's wrong. Period

One of those unspoken but universally known rules concerning booking a service where human contact is involved is that the person booking the service is fit to receive said service(unless you're a doctor, where the level of assumed risk is different).  If you show up to a professional massage appointment with a communicable disease that the massage therapist could contract, the massage therapist won't see you and you won't be refunded the cost of the appointment.  Seeing a hooker isn't much different in that sense.  

Consider the following, if you will:

-Client books a session.  Client does not inform provider of any medical issues prior to the appointment or during the booking process.
-Provider makes accommodations as per norm (booking space, blocking off the scheduled time, getting ready, whatever it is hookers do).  
-Client shows up, session begins, and provider notices that client has some serious mess going on that might be contagious.  Provider is physically still capable of providing service, but was not made aware that she would be risking her health above and beyond normal assumed risk prior to the time of the appointment.
-Client is not able to receive said services, since client did not disclose that in order to receive services from the provider, the provider would be putting herself at risk above and beyond the normally assumed risk that comes with providing.  

The assumption behind any arrangement like this is full consent.  Had the provider actually been given full disclosure as to a problem that is outside the scope of normal services, the provider could have denied the booking and saved herself the time and money.  Had the client fully disclosed the risk he posed to the provider, that risk being above and beyond the norms of the assumed risks that come along with p4p, he could have been rejected and booked with another provider or booked at another time.  

It's not fraud when I enter into a contract (that's what the exchange of money for a service is, after all) without full knowledge or the ability to fully consent to said service because a health risk that is outside the scope of reasonable risk isn't disclosed beforehand.  For the client to not disclose this information beforehand is gross negligence; the risk has shifted from what is normally accepted risk

skarphedin470 reads

As I understand it, your argument as to why you get to keep this guy's entire fee (other than that massage therapists do it too!) is that he cost you an appointment and that there are other ancillary expenses occurred in getting ready for the date.  

First, as to the missed opportunity. Are your days routinely fully booked? To the extent that there are identifiable punters who requested that slot (sorry not sorry heh) but were denied and could not find another time? Or do you routinely make x dollars a day and due to the loss of his appointment you made x-(his fee)? When no shows happen do you routinely make efforts to fill that time slot or do you just let it go?  

As to the second, how much actual monetary expense do you go to for each such session? How much non-monetary investment do you put into preparation?

Because I can.  I have the numbers.  I'm pretty anal-retentive when it comes to doing my taxes and figuring out my costs. I can tell you how much it costs me in time and materials per each session, including transportation costs, lube use, and the resulting laundry. I can tell you how much it costs for me to turn a light on in my incall space, or how much internet I have to use in order to stream music for a date. But that information is extraneous to the question that was posited originally.  

I've never been in a situation where I had to stop a session for the reason the OP stated.  If someone booked a session with me and didn't disclose the increased risk id encounter due to him having a condition which i could contract via touch, Then dropped trow or took off a shirt only to have something that's visually questionable, they'd be asked to go and they would not be offered a refund.  

If i cannot safely touch someone, there is no reason for them to stay.  In the case of a parasitic infection like scabies, a fungal infection like ringworm,or a bacterial infection like MRSA,  that person has contaminated my incall and my incall would then have to be treated as such.  New bedding, pillows, etc can certainly add up quickly. Even for a much simpler to treat yet highly contagious overgrowth like Thrush or Candida Overgrowth, medical intervention is necessary should a hooker contract it from a john. Doctor's bills for any treatment that might be needed would add up quickly.  Lost wages might even come into play, and that could be lost wages from both johns and any other form of employment should a hooker have actually contracted something. This is all pretty basic from an operational cost stand-point, which is why it's best to mitigate situations like the OP described in the first place.

By scheduling and confirming a booking with a hooker, a client is attesting to their ability to be appropriately hygienic and healthy within the means of appropriate risk associated with p4p. If a client develops a condition that renders them neither of those things, the booking should be cancelled by the client.  

Is your argument that the client may not know that he's contagious? If that's the argument, the client would have to acknowledge that he's got something unusual going on that renders risk that's higher than the normally anticipated risk associated with p4p;  the client still booked the session under false pretenses.  If a client knows what's going on and it isn't contagious (say the client has contact dermatitis, eczema, psoriasis,etc), the client should let the provider know before the date (i've had this happen on a few different occasions. Eczema flares happen. No big deal, as long as i know ahead of time).  

BUT FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT'S HOLY JUST DONT SHOW UP TO A SESSION IF YOURE NOT HEALTHY ENOUGH TO PARTICIPATE. Problem solved.


-- Modified on 10/12/2015 11:31:31 PM

I assume he knows because the OP posited it as so. I assume he knows because if someone can see a nasty looking rash on someone else, the person who has the rash knows it's there.

Posted By: curiouscious
...his non STD diseases before meeting you first time. Maybe he has some communicable skin disease and its completely fine to interract...  
   
 1. He did his homework before meeting you. He read your reviews and knows your Do's and Dont's and has high expectations. And you are aware he will be leaving a feedback.  
   
 2. He is arriving to the location, coming up, getting comfortable and you see physical appearance of his body parts are not like usual. You are not a doctor to evaluate, if it is contagious or not. He more likely won't have a paper proof(recent statement from his family doctors, describing his disease) that its ok to freely interact with other people.  
   
 N.B! How will you handle this date. Remember, you don't know nothing until you see him and its your first time with him.

-- Modified on 10/11/2015 7:34:47 PM

RroseSelavy687 reads

If a hobbyist shows up to a first meeting with a condition indistinguishable from an STD, I have zero compunction about terminating the session immediately.  

If this theoretical hobbyist (I'll assume male) had a modicum of respect (and wanted to avoid wasting everyone's time), he'd disclose his condition during booking and provide recent clean test results. By showing up with this questionable condition assuming he'd receive service anyway, he's basically saying "this dumb hooker probably won't notice, and if she does, she'll probably go through with it since she needs the money and it's too late to recoup the time once she's down there."

When this has happened to me, I have returned the donation because I didn't want to have to spend any time arguing with someone who clearly had so little consideration for my sense of well being. Really, I think collecting an asshole tax would be perfectly justifiable.

you've solved the problem of the federal budget deficit...

a national asshole tax, and maybe a national idiot tax, we'd be swimming surplus...

RroseSelavy489 reads

If we can figure that out, I'll take it to my congressperson tout de suite.

One time a guy came to me with a really nasty looking smelly rash. I took one look and said, "I'm not doing anything with you. Get that checked out...I gotta go".  And I left his house, never hearing from him again (and yes I gave him his donation back).

"smelly?" What you providing in a Leper Colony or something?

 
quote]

Posted By: IndirahDarkRaven
One time a guy came to me with a really nasty looking smelly rash. I took one look and said, "I'm not doing anything with you. Get that checked out...I gotta go".  And I left his house, never hearing from him again (and yes I gave him his donation back).

I had no idea he had a rash until it was time to start the session. He had jeans on so I couldn't tell. It happened years ago and I don't play games when it comes to my health. I've worked in the medical field so I know what to look for. I walked out, and that's all I cared about. I'm not going to waste time asking him questions.

I'll rephrase, Did you work in the medical field in a Leper Colony?

Posted By: IndirahDarkRaven
I had no idea he had a rash until it was time to start the session. He had jeans on so I couldn't tell. It happened years ago and I don't play games when it comes to my health. I've worked in the medical field so I know what to look for. I walked out, and that's all I cared about. I'm not going to waste time asking him questions.

I use a 10,000 foot pole with these people...

I worked as an CNA (Certified Nurses Aide) so I saw things that still give me the creepers years later.

He doesn't have paper work or nothing to prove he's alright, after i see him if it looks weird, I would terminate the date. I don't expect you to see me if I look sick or look like there is something wrong with me. I personally demand the same respect.  The donation isn't worth it and it's not like I'm dismissing him, he has the paper work and is so caught up in seeing me then i will see him as long as there is nothing wrong with him, I'm good. Other than that No Sorry I won't do it. Health is never worth good sex or money. Even if it's not harmful to me I want to know. Some people lose insight that sex comes with a lot of responsability and in some cases disease. Nope, I'm good.

& although, I do not DISCRIMINATE, if I see something that I may even think is contagious & have little to no knowledge about, I would have to immediately terminate to appointment!

TER ID: 27740

You have something that looks bad, you are out.  

Some hookers care a lot more about their health than some ramblings from a trick with a skin disorder that thinks it's funny to place person in that position with the veiled threat of a review if she says no.

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