TER General Board

Sizing things up
impposter 49 Reviews 715 reads
posted

For me, the #1 consideration isn't melanin but size, by which I mean TER "build" or BMI and not just height. I have had some enjoyable times with AA women (tall ones, too!), all but one of them slim by MY standards, not the unreliable TER Profile standards. Some were house girls (eg, JoNY - a NYC place), some were agency girls, but I don't recall seeing a true indy (tried to see a JoNY girl who went indy many times but schedules never worked).

When I search New Reviews and start reading, I definitely check out build. Here is where a bias may come into play.  If ethnicity is AA, I only seriously look at thin or skinny. Just based on pictures, most, and I do mean MOST, of the time I click on athletic or baby fat and go to the webpage pictures, I see physiques that are way bigger than my vision of athletic of bf. Sometimes even TER thin or TER skinny is beyond my preference.  I am not a BBW guy.  When I look at pictures of non-AA Providers described as TER athletic, it is much more consistent with my view of athletic (or thin or skinny), based on pics.  

Here's a thought inspired by your post. Just walking around in NYC or Boston, when I ogle (or try not to get caught ogling) the young ladies, my bias??? is telling me that a lot of young AA girls are definitely on the larger (BBW) side and I wonder if that's because of (1) bad nutrition (US teen / YA diets: too much MickeyD) and / or (2) ghetto girls think that more guys like the BBW thing so they make no effort to slim down or (3) some other reason.  

The BBW trend is true for other ethnic-American groups as well, but the number of times I turn my head TOWARDS a pretty, thin young woman she is more likely to be non-AA.  I think that's not just absolute numbers but percentages.  I think the news stories about medical studies would also say that obesity is more common in black communities and groups than in non-black groups.  

That's me: tiny-girls, spinners, thin; no BBW

TotalLifeForever2359 reads

Whether it's indy escorting, agencies or "sugaring", I constantly see clients/SDs saying that they want Caucasians, Asians, Latinas, any race on earth except African-American women. Now I'm asking a honest question; why is that? Is it because you find black women ugly, too heavy in general, or "ghetto" with too much attitude?  
And please be honest. No need to say the typical "It's just attraction" BS, because Black women come in many shades, sizes and cultures. Or if you want to maintain the act, what do you find unattractive about Black women? Would you change your mind is she was thinner and more petite? lighter skinned? demure and subservient?  
Or is it Black women from the USA that you don't find attractive? Would it be different if she was Ethiopian, West African, Cuban, Brazilian, or British?  
Once again please be honest about your opinions. DO NOT be PC (unless that's how you truly feel).  

PS: The reason why I specifically said "American" in the title was because I almost exclusively see this trend in America. European men rarely have these racial hang-ups (In my experience).

rollaxroll887 reads

personally, I don't like very dark skin color. I found it very unattractive.  Same reason, I don't like indian women, because their skin color is also too dark.

GaGambler762 reads

I like brown, olive, yellow, above either very white or very black.

but like Impposter below, it's more a "type" than skin color to me. I like women with delicate features, and a slim trim body, when I find these qualities in a woman, skin color ceases to be that relevant to me, except if they are at the very end of the color spectrum, pasty white and blue black just aren't that attractive to me, and yes I agree that "some" Indian women fit that mold as well, but there are many Indian women that most definitely get my motor running, including one particularly sharp witted young woman who posts on this very board.

Posted By: GaGambler
I agree that "some" Indian women fit that mold as well, but there are many Indian women that most definitely get my motor running, including one particularly sharp witted young woman who posts on this very board.
Unfortunately she's just a little out of my price range. Hopefully I'll get to experience a sexy Indian woman at some point.

Bill_Brasky719 reads

She is gorgeous.  And her skin isn't dark at all.  More like honey colored.

rollaxroll686 reads

I agree.  I should say very very dark.  I see some asians and latino who have relatively darker skin color and there's no problem. But not very dark.  I believe most people have their personal preference of physical features.  As long as a lady's physical fits my desire, I don't care where she came from. But very dark skin give negative point to me. Another thing is I don't like some typical face features of black lady.  I am not racism and I found so many black people are super nice in real life. If a black woman has very attractive physical features to me and not extremly dark, I would love to meet them. But this is not common. I would prefer an attrative black lady to unatractve white lady.  It's just some physical things about black girl are not my taste.  This is just my personal preference.  

Posted By: GaGambler
I like brown, olive, yellow, above either very white or very black.  
   
 but like Impposter below, it's more a "type" than skin color to me. I like women with delicate features, and a slim trim body, when I find these qualities in a woman, skin color ceases to be that relevant to me, except if they are at the very end of the color spectrum, pasty white and blue black just aren't that attractive to me, and yes I agree that "some" Indian women fit that mold as well, but there are many Indian women that most definitely get my motor running, including one particularly sharp witted young woman who posts on this very board.

GaGambler634 reads

I am not about to make excuses for why or why not some women are attractive to me. If the PC crowd were to be put in charge it would be "ageist" to not like old broads, "genderist" to be heterosexual and "weightist" to pass on a fat chick because of her weight.

That said, race is one of the least important factors to me where it comes to pussy. Age, weight, fitness, skin tone (not color), delicate features are all important pieces of the puzzle to me.  

I like women of all races, but I refuse to go along with this mentality that I have to PROVE this to anyone lest I be labeled a racist for having preferences. I will say though that this life would be very boring indeed if we/they were all alike. I love variety, which is one of the major reasons I do this. Without P4P how could an ordinary guy have a Russian blonde on Monday, a K Girl on Tuesday,  a statuesque black girl on Wednesday, a Colombiana spinner on Thursday, etc etc etc.???

I like women, a lot, regardless of what race they are. OK, I'll admit it, I've never met a Martian that I like.

For me, the #1 consideration isn't melanin but size, by which I mean TER "build" or BMI and not just height. I have had some enjoyable times with AA women (tall ones, too!), all but one of them slim by MY standards, not the unreliable TER Profile standards. Some were house girls (eg, JoNY - a NYC place), some were agency girls, but I don't recall seeing a true indy (tried to see a JoNY girl who went indy many times but schedules never worked).

When I search New Reviews and start reading, I definitely check out build. Here is where a bias may come into play.  If ethnicity is AA, I only seriously look at thin or skinny. Just based on pictures, most, and I do mean MOST, of the time I click on athletic or baby fat and go to the webpage pictures, I see physiques that are way bigger than my vision of athletic of bf. Sometimes even TER thin or TER skinny is beyond my preference.  I am not a BBW guy.  When I look at pictures of non-AA Providers described as TER athletic, it is much more consistent with my view of athletic (or thin or skinny), based on pics.  

Here's a thought inspired by your post. Just walking around in NYC or Boston, when I ogle (or try not to get caught ogling) the young ladies, my bias??? is telling me that a lot of young AA girls are definitely on the larger (BBW) side and I wonder if that's because of (1) bad nutrition (US teen / YA diets: too much MickeyD) and / or (2) ghetto girls think that more guys like the BBW thing so they make no effort to slim down or (3) some other reason.  

The BBW trend is true for other ethnic-American groups as well, but the number of times I turn my head TOWARDS a pretty, thin young woman she is more likely to be non-AA.  I think that's not just absolute numbers but percentages.  I think the news stories about medical studies would also say that obesity is more common in black communities and groups than in non-black groups.  

That's me: tiny-girls, spinners, thin; no BBW

nobody305510 reads

I am with you there. I go for body type more then race. No BBW for me white, black, or any other nationality. As long as they fit my body type and looks good to me I will contact to for a meeting.

There are many black women I find attractive, but none yet I have met as  a hobbyist. I used to primarily indulge myself in Montreal, and 99% of the black providers there are Haitian. I met 2 and almost met a 3rd before giving up and abstaining. I don't mean to sound objectionable, but I find certain hairstyles like cornrows and dreadlocks very unattractive on a woman. Then there is the smell of the hair. Its very pungent and I have noticed it not only on providers from that ethnic group, but also co-workers. I don't know if its some sort of ethnic hair product but its quite distracting for me, and ruined what could have been great sessions.  

There was a third I was curious about seeing, and confirmed her hair did not have the issues I mentioned, but it turned out she is one of those people that do not like anyone touching her hair, even if its in the heat of passion. I passed on meeting her because I do not want to spend my time with severe issues or phobias like that.

I would also note there is a big difference between being attracted to someone and asking them out, and actually paying someone to spend time with you. In the latter case you are buying a fantasy and the bar is set much higher. So for instance I had the longest crush on a co-worker from Nigeria, but I have met black escorts at meet & greet events that were more attractive than her but did not interest me. It doesn't make sense, but there it is.

VictoriousSecret544 reads

There is so much racially biased bullshit in these short three paragraphs.  I cannot even attempt to unpack it all.  But three things are really standing out to me:

First of all, you actually wrote this sentence: "Then there is the smell of the hair. It's very pungent..."  Repeat this with me, ok? BLACK WOMEN ARE NOT A DIFFERENT SPECIES.  It's fucking hair, dude. Like you eventually realized, it might just be a particular hair product that you don't care for the smell of. Ok, fair enough.  But you've been with TWO black providers!!! If you had met two white providers who both happened to wear the same perfume that you didn't like... Would you "give up and abstain" from meeting ALL white providers?! Do you hear how ridiculous that sounds?  

And can we please discuss the fact that you actually had the balls to say that a woman who doesn't like to have people touch her hair has "severe issues or phobias" but YOU literally were so sensitive to the smell of a fucking hair product that you thought it "ruined" a session.  Hypocrite much?

Lastly, let's look at this fucking gem: "I would also note that there is a big difference between being attracted to someone and asking them out, and actually paying someone to spend time with you.  In the latter case you are buying a fantasy and the bar is set much higher."  So let me get this straight, since white women are naturally better and more desirable than black women, if you're going to pay for sex, you're obviously not going to go for a black provider...?  Do you even hear yourself implying that white women are simply "better" in some way than black women? That when the bar is set high all black women would naturally fall below it?  

This kind of casual racism is one of the many causes of the exact phenomenon the OP was referring to.

Nothing of what I said was PC, but it does not make me a casual racist. First up, providers are not employees I am contracting for a regular job, who I choose to be intimate with is a very personal choice.

Regarding your first point, I made the reference to a very specific subset, and it was not just those two. I had a few co-workers with dreadlocks and cornrows that had a very similar hair smell.  I assumed it was a hair product associated with that style. Hence, if I see that hair style in someone's photos, I will avoid. And yes I think someone who does not want anyone to touch their hair even during intimacy does have issues.

Finally there is no handbook for physical attraction. I can't explain why I find some quality more attractive than others. The fact is I primarily I hobby very rarely, and the locale I do it in has very few black providers to choose from.

You don't know me, and don't you dare judge me while hiding behind an alias.

-- Modified on 10/10/2015 11:52:55 AM

Posted By: ballpark29
Finally there is no handbook for physical attraction. I can't explain why I find some quality more attractive than others.
My other posts in this thread were about the psychology of attractiveness and the perception of beauty. We just act and don't always understand why but the psychologists are trying to figure it out.  

Biologists have even studied attraction in humans based on odors, that is, body odors.  Women tend to be attracted to men of very similar lineage due to immunological triggers that show up in sweat, bo and other body excretions.  There is even an immunological limit to cut down on too much inbreeding. Perfumes and hair stuff can cover up or swamp out some odors but the subtle immunological triggers are still there.  

Waist-to-hip, shoulder-to-waist (or is it chest-to-waist, I don't remember), symmetry, proportionality, good sweat - bad sweat ... it's not just in textbooks, it's in our genes.  

 
(For those who dispute this: researchers collected sweaty t-shirts from all sorts of men after their workouts at the gym.  Women were exposed to the shirts one by one to see their reactions.  The women did not know which shirt came from which man. The researchers also measured and compared the sequence differences in the W/M immunoglobulins and stuff like that. Similar = good; TOO similar = bad; very different = bad.

VictoriousSecret490 reads

You are a fucking trip, dude. Racism isn't something that's limited to decisions like who you hire.  You have the opportunity to display racist behaviors and attitudes in EVERY interaction you have with people of color.  Who you choose to pay to have sex with included.  

Now, it's cute that you're trying to make it seem like you were specifically saying that you just don't see providers with a certain hairstyle in your original post.  But what you ACTUALLY said is: "I met 2 and almost met a 3rd before giving up and abstaining", referring to black providers in general.  Avoiding providers who have a specific hairstyle you don't like is understandable, but ruling out an entire race of women because you didn't care for the hair products of two of them is not just racist, it's stupid.  

And while we're talking about hair, not wanting someone to touch your hair doesn't mean you have issues! It's not YOUR hair, guy! You aren't entitled to touch it, no matter how much you want to. Would you say the same thing if a provider asked you not to put your fingers in her vagina?  Of course not, because it's HER body and HER choice and just because it's something that YOU want to do, doesn't mean that she has issues because she doesn't want you to.  It's okay to say that you prefer providers who allow you to touch their hair. It's NOT okay to say that women who don't want you to have a problem.

Lastly, me saying what I'm saying from behind an alias doesn't change anything.  I'm speaking from behind an alias because, though I stand for every word of what I'm saying, having strong opinions on racism kind of ruins the fantasy of a perfect GFE.  And besides, what the hell would knowing who I am (or my provider persona, anyway) even change?

... along with White, Latina, Asian, mixed.  For me it doesn't make sense to rule out any ethnic group - there are so many attractive women of all ethnicities.

If I were to describe my "favorite type" it would be: Latina, Middle Eastern, or Mediterranean (Spanish, Italian, etc).  Brunette, naturally curvy but athletic.  

These are only general guidelines and providers frequently catch my attention who don't fit these guidelines

Maybe tomorrow someone will start a clit size thread instead of a dick size thread.

SodaPop751 reads

Look at any fashion magazines and what do you see?  What about leading actresses in major movies?  White Women!  

Now, some folks will respond that they are attracted to many Black women, but your experience is different and that is why you brought it up.  I am a man of color, not black, but not White.  I believe there is a stigma attached to non-white women in the US when it comes to beauty.  African-American women (and Asian) have a tough time because their features are not generally considered attractive in the US.  Look at the beauty show contestants and the women that typically win.  

Even when you talk about attractive Black women, you have differences in dark vs. light-skinned women.  
Lupita Nyong vs. Tyra Banks

Goin Ghetto!!  This word somehow is associated with BLACK people more than any other race.  Partly because some Black people promoting what's considered gangsta life, partly Whites misperceived notion about the poor. If you tell someone you are from a place like South Central LA, they think you are a gang-banger, even if you are a college grad.  I know what I'm talkin about here.  

Now my 2 freakin cents!  
My dad always told me that as a minority I had to work harder.  I am already perceived as lower class, so he told me that I need to prove I belong with the upper income class of America.  I can tell U that today I am richer than 90% of ALL Americans.  Not bragging, just doin what my Dad told me to do..    
U need to find what works for U

Posted By: SodaPop
Look at any fashion magazines and what do you see?  What about leading actresses in major movies?  White Women!
I don't read the fashion mags or watch a lot of movies, but the Arts and Entertainment stuff I'm bombarded with on the internet is very mixed, with many women of color (all shades), depending on who got beaten up by their boyfriend that day.
Now, some folks will respond that they are attracted to many Black women,
There have been MANY studies of female attractiveness from various perspectives, including evolutionary, cultural and so on.  See "Waist-Hip Ratio" for example.  Those studies were originally done on colorless outline or silhouette body cartoons.  They are starting to add more features.  The preference among ALL males is around 0.7.  Then they look at preferences of sub-groups.  There are some differences.  

Studies of beauty as perceived in ethnic faces have been conducted, as well, and not by comparing pictures of top models (Nyong - Banks) but by computerized blending of face photos of different types.  SYMMETRY is one of the more important factors in determining a test subject's assessment of beauty.  Asian female faces are at the top and I think it had something to do with the angle of the eyes emphasizing the symmetry.  This  - - kind of looks like a line with a space somewhere in the middle, maybe, but \ / zooms in at the centerline and enhances is (symmetry).  

African-American women (and Asian) have a tough time because their features are not generally considered attractive in the US.
I am pretty sure that natural Asian faces (not 6 hours in the make up chair faces and Photshopped faces) are at the top of the list.
Even when you talk about attractive Black women, you have differences in dark vs. light-skinned women. Lupita Nyong vs. Tyra Banks
I don't remember the explanation of this.  It might have to do with the ability to perceive facial features, hence the perception of symmetry and beauty. Whether it is in photos or real life situations, if you didn't grow up around dark (AA) faces, it is more difficult to pick up subtle features in dark faces.  A well lit photoshoot with lots of makeup and color can overcome that perceptual difficulty.  
Goin Ghetto!!  This word somehow is associated with BLACK people more than any other race.
Your statement is more about culture than beauty.  Currently, "ghetto" connotes US, urban, mostly black, mostly poor, mostly gangsta, ... communities. It is often self-popularized.  At other times, US cities have had the Italian ghettoes, the Jewish ghettoes, the Irish ghettoes, but those were mostly all before our time (unless you're really, really, old).  In Europe, there's probably a whole other meaning for modern ghettoes and modern ghetto life.
Now my 2 freakin cents! ...  today I am richer than 90% of ALL Americans.
And all we get is 2 freakin' cents?  Well, maybe that's partly how you got rich and stay that way

Here is a good example, and I'm NOT trying to create and issue.  The two ladies you mentioned in your post I don't really find attractive, but I do find some AA ladies VERY attractive.  They just aren't my taste..  P.s Your Dad is/was a smart man...  Good day!

GaGambler589 reads

I too am not white nor black and living in the deep south in the 70's I experienced a LOT of overt racism and like you I had to work harder and hard to earn my place just to be "in the room"

Fast forward 40 years from my days as a slant eyed teenaged kid trying to find my way in the completely white world of the oil fields of Louisiana and having to fight for my place in the room are over, I now own the room, but even if I didn't the stigma is gone. I can walk into any board room in the country and no one will get even a single fuck about my race. I will concede there is still racism in this country, but we've come a LONG ways in the last several decades.  

and I COMPLETELY disagree with you that there is some kind of bias against non white women in this country. beauty is beauty, and Asian, Black and Latina women do just fine in the beauty pageants of the 21 century.

VictoriousSecret535 reads

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that you probably consider yourself to be one of those "evolved" men who "doesn't see race" and all that bullshit.  But if you can't "see" race, you sure as hell can't see racial bias.  So let me bring a few things to your attention:

In 2014, only 14% of major fashion magazine covers featured a woman of color.  

At NY Fashion Week Fall 2015, 77.4% of the 618 models were white.  

The Miss America pageant has had only ten women of color win the title since it started in 1921.  

I'll PM you the links to every one of those stats if you want

GaGambler498 reads

White people are still the majority here in the US, so their numbers SHOULD be higher.  

and I am certainly not an "evolved" man. I am a pig and proud of it. also I might mention I am NOT white.  

I have also experienced a hell of a lot more racism directed at me personally in my life than you ever will. Just imagine being in the DEEP DEEP south 40 years ago as a person of color, You try living through that and then come back and lecture me about racism.

For the record we are NOT all the same, there are a lot of differences between the races, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. My generation risked life and limb so you can whine about the fact that "only" about a 140 women out of 618  at NY Fashion Week were women of color, That mean 22.6%  of the models were not white. Not bad in a mainly white country. Not perfect, but certainly nothing worth setting your hair on fire about.

VictoriousSecret752 reads

"I have also experienced a hell of a lot more racism directed at me personally in my life than you ever will."... Said the man to the anonymous stranger.  Do you even hear how stupid you sound right now? Like, how on God's green earth can you even pretend like you have any idea what you're talking about? If you don't know the first thing about me, how can you be so sure that your experiences with racism are in any way worse than mine? Who are you, the ghost of Emmet Till?! And for fuck's sake, what kind of person goes around trying to win some made up "Who had it worse" pissing contest anyway?  

But back to the issue at hand. If you want to look at the statistics for representations of women of color in the media without even the slightest bit of nuance, then you're right.  It's about representative of the ethnic diversity in our country.  But you're being obtuse as hell if you aren't accounting for the many, many other factors that make those numbers problematic.  First of all, there's a difference between equality and justice.  Women of this color, and black women specifically, have historically gotten this shit end of the stick when it comes to how they're portrayed in the American media.  I'm not your history teacher, so I'm not going to take the time to pull out all the links to prove my point, but I'd like to think that you aren't so incredibly oblivious as to not realize that for the majority of the time that black women have been represented in the media, it's been as caricatures and stereotypes and NOT as equally beautiful and desirable as white women. So when we as a country finally do start attempting to recognize and highlight the beauty of women of color, we're doing so in the face of YEARS of having been shown the opposite. For years women of color (again, specifically black women) have been widely accepted as being "less than" white women.  Just because now we're finally putting a few WOC on the covers of magazines, does not magically replace the years and years of incredibly negative, damaging portrayals of them in all forms of media.  

So if we want our little girls of color to grow up thinking that they're equally beautiful and worthy of praise as white women, we're going to have to try a LIIIIIIITTTLE harder.  When a girl of color grows up seeing that the vast majority of women in fashion and advertisements are WHITE, what kind of message do you think that sends? Especially when coupled with the fact that the majority of women of color that she's seeing in the media are STILL caricatures and stereotypes of "loud, angry, masculine black women" or "subservient, docile asian women" or "exotic, sexual, fetishized ethnic women".    

You can keep on denying that this shit matters, or even exists, but that doesn't make it true.

Bill_Brasky564 reads

Oh, my Gawd!  Did I just say BLACK????  That is SO racist! LMAO!

bigguy30514 reads

Also I see your still working on your sentence structure. Lol

Posted By: Bill_Brasky
Oh, my Gawd!  Did I just say BLACK????  That is SO racist! LMAO!

bigguy30456 reads

He is just trying to piss you off by sounding stupid.

 

Posted By: VictoriousSecret
"I have also experienced a hell of a lot more racism directed at me personally in my life than you ever will."... Said the man to the anonymous stranger.  Do you even hear how stupid you sound right now? Like, how on God's green earth can you even pretend like you have any idea what you're talking about? If you don't know the first thing about me, how can you be so sure that your experiences with racism are in any way worse than mine? Who are you, the ghost of Emmet Till?! And for fuck's sake, what kind of person goes around trying to win some made up "Who had it worse" pissing contest anyway?  
   
 But back to the issue at hand. If you want to look at the statistics for representations of women of color in the media without even the slightest bit of nuance, then you're right.  It's about representative of the ethnic diversity in our country.  But you're being obtuse as hell if you aren't accounting for the many, many other factors that make those numbers problematic.  First of all, there's a difference between equality and justice.  Women of this color, and black women specifically, have historically gotten this shit end of the stick when it comes to how they're portrayed in the American media.  I'm not your history teacher, so I'm not going to take the time to pull out all the links to prove my point, but I'd like to think that you aren't so incredibly oblivious as to not realize that for the majority of the time that black women have been represented in the media, it's been as caricatures and stereotypes and NOT as equally beautiful and desirable as white women. So when we as a country finally do start attempting to recognize and highlight the beauty of women of color, we're doing so in the face of YEARS of having been shown the opposite. For years women of color (again, specifically black women) have been widely accepted as being "less than" white women.  Just because now we're finally putting a few WOC on the covers of magazines, does not magically replace the years and years of incredibly negative, damaging portrayals of them in all forms of media.    
   
 So if we want our little girls of color to grow up thinking that they're equally beautiful and worthy of praise as white women, we're going to have to try a LIIIIIIITTTLE harder.  When a girl of color grows up seeing that the vast majority of women in fashion and advertisements are WHITE, what kind of message do you think that sends? Especially when coupled with the fact that the majority of women of color that she's seeing in the media are STILL caricatures and stereotypes of "loud, angry, masculine black women" or "subservient, docile asian women" or "exotic, sexual, fetishized ethnic women".    
   
 You can keep on denying that this shit matters, or even exists, but that doesn't make it true.

Posted By: VictoriousSecret
So if we want our little girls of color to grow up thinking that they're equally beautiful and worthy of praise as white women, we're going to have to try a LIIIIIIITTTLE harder.  When a girl of color grows up seeing that the vast majority of women in fashion and advertisements are WHITE, what kind of message do you think that sends? Especially when coupled with the fact that the majority of women of color that she's seeing in the media are STILL caricatures and stereotypes of "loud, angry, masculine black women" or "subservient, docile asian women" or "exotic, sexual, fetishized ethnic women".
Many interesting points are raised but I'll just address the "women in fashion and advertisements" and surrounding parts.  We have become TOO DEPENDENT on such mass media for the establishment of values, images, self-image and so on.  

EVERYBODY complains about that stuff.  Plus size white women: "They discriminate against us!" Plus size OLD white women: "They discriminate against us!" NORMAL white women with BMI greater than 17 and natural hair both bounces softly in a breeze but returns perfectly into place: "They discriminate against us!" How about the male models with the clothes that always fit perfectly (because they've been stapled, taped and pinned into place for the photos and TV shows): "They are discriminating against ME!"  Staple came loose in that scene? "Cut! Take two!" My life? No second takes.

How can ANYONE today NOT know that Barbie is an unrealistic body type?  "If Barbie were an actual woman, she would be 5'9" tall, have a 39" bust, an 18" waist, 33" hips and a size 3 shoe. She likely would not menstruate... she'd have to walk on all fours due to her proportions. Barbie would weigh 110 pounds and have a BMI of 16.24."  DON'T BUY YOUR LITTLE GIRLS BARBIE DOLLS, NOT EVEN A BLACK BARBIE DOLL. Raggedy Ann is a better companion.

I suppose you could only let little girls of color watch BET and look at Ebony or Essence magazine to protect them from becoming aware of actual US demographics. (Some of those AA models also unrealistic role models.) Or you could teach all the boys and girls of all colors that media, especially commercial media, is a deliberate distortion of reality. Parents and relatives should instill in these kids better values and help to develop their self-esteem independent of the media hype.  

Turn off the TV, Choose good books over magazines. Disconnect the kids from internet. At least for a few or even several hours a day.

That cartoon in your post is great! But you're not going to be able to legislate equality. Justice is much more difficult than smoothing out 3 types and 3 boxes (that just happen to perfectly solve the problem). You left out the kid in the wheelchair. You left out the blind kid. You left out the ADHD kid who kicks the boxes out from the other kids. You left out ... every special interest group. Among 300+ million in the US, there are easily more than one million "types" and millions of resources to try to re-allocate.  

Do what you can. Teach YOUR kids and those you come into contact with a better set of values and to ignore fake world of media hype

So Miss America has only had 10 non white winners since 1921? You failed to mention that the first ever non white winner was in 1984, so actually they have had 10 non white winners in 30 years. That's 33%! For the first 40 or so years of Miss America, non whites weren't even allowed to compete! That just proves GaGambler's point of how much things have changed in the last few decades

As to your New York fashion week comment, how is that even a complaint?  77.4% of the models were white? Hmmm, what a coincidence! 77.7 % of the population is white!

-- Modified on 10/10/2015 6:07:04 PM

In Mn blacks are a distinct minority, but when one goes to the top 100 list numbers one and three are black and you will find a total of four by the time you get on numbe twelve.
IMHO they did not get there and stay there by being black but rather by being black, intelligent, by providing a good service, and a safe environment .  
Saw one of these ladies this week and can honestly say she was NOT a black provider but a provider who was black.

I think there's a general stigma attached to being "of color", and perhaps an even greater stigma attached being black, specifically. I don't know that there's a war on melanin exactly lol, but we have a fairly racialized country and history that's often not very pretty, and it can be pretty hurtful sometimes and that sucks.

Most men, I'd assume, don't know very many black women personally or intimately which isn't really surprising.. we're a pretty tiny percent of the population.. just about 7%. And I think that causes a bit of detachment.. most people are comfortable around things that they know and that they've experienced and they avoid things that they haven't. It's a cycle that sort of feeds itself, I think.

But I would guess that the largest contributor to this issue is simple: marketing. Every group is marketed, don't you think? There's an image (visual and social) that comes to mind when you think of a white man or a lesbian or a vegan lol.. and there's a "black woman" image too. I think that image is what some people may find unappealing.. not specific black women. Does that make sense? If the image of a "black woman" is a woman that's overweight, unattractive, loud or angry.. well, it's not very surprising that that image is avoided.

But you, TotalLifeForever, have the ability to market and create your own image, and to be your authentic self :)  So if you are a sweet, happy, funny, sexy, affectionate, feminine woman, express that, and I don't think that most guys would turn down the opportunity to experience that just because of your race. The agencies and guys that are excluding "black women" aren't excluding you.. there's excluding the caricature of whatever they imagine a "black woman" to be.

I've gotten the warmest reception in this "hobby" from practically everyone I've met and I've gotten the sweetest reviews ever. And I would say that things are going very, very well for me, black woman and all :

Sweet, hot, and wet.  :-)

I like all the colors of the rainbow and I've definitely been known to dabble at the darker end of the spectrum.  I can only say for myself your assertion is definitely not true.  It has nothing to do with being pc or not, you like what you like.  I see a sexy woman of any color and my brain says "wow, I wonder how she is in bed?...".

Honestly for me attitude comes first.  And if a girl has a confident, strong, creative personality with a good sense of adventure and humor then it's ON.  Regardless of skin tone

and very little desire to share them on this board and I'm also not the one to whom question is posed.

So I'll sit over here and await the honesty that will not come, or will come in very veiled responses...LOL.

As a P.S. I'll leave this anecdote: I often meet with clients who are almost overjoyed to find that I am lighter than my pictures... interpret as you will.

Or a combination of the two. Personally, I love dark skinned women and have had the pleasure of many mind-blowing sessions with ladies of color over the years!! However, some guys just aren't into it---and I really wonder how much of it is just lack of physical attraction as opposed to some kind of bias formed at an early age that continues to be a barrier.

thotlover609 reads

If the OP had simply done a Review Search of African American providers with a 9.0 average, he/she would have discovered 85 women all around the country.The number rises to 335 if you use a 8.5 average. AA women are a small percentage of providers who are on TER and P411. I personally will only see providers who are on these two sites so you don't have as many choices overall, but they are out there and doing quite well. They come in various complexions, body types, hair styles with a wide variety of menu options. Halle Moore, Elli King, Bree Breeze, Jennifer Baily, Kelis Monet, Caramel Dime, Adaysia Lynn, Naima, Taren Deleon, Erica Sweets, London Lauren, Penelope Parker, Norah Lucille to name just a few

say that.  I find Many of them very attractive.  I will admit I believe there is a little more attitude on a percentage basis, but many are great.  I guess the question could be asked, "Why do so many black men prefer white women?" Does this mean they also don't like black women?  So I guess again it comes down to for each his own.  I mean what flavor ice cream do u like?  Well Why?  Personal preference.....

Posted By: TotalLifeForever
Whether it's indy escorting, agencies or "sugaring", I constantly see clients/SDs saying that they want Caucasians, Asians, Latinas, any race on earth except African-American women. Now I'm asking a honest question; why is that? Is it because you find black women ugly, too heavy in general, or "ghetto" with too much attitude?  
 And please be honest. No need to say the typical "It's just attraction" BS, because Black women come in many shades, sizes and cultures. Or if you want to maintain the act, what do you find unattractive about Black women? Would you change your mind is she was thinner and more petite? lighter skinned? demure and subservient?  
 Or is it Black women from the USA that you don't find attractive? Would it be different if she was Ethiopian, West African, Cuban, Brazilian, or British?  
 Once again please be honest about your opinions. DO NOT be PC (unless that's how you truly feel).  
   
 PS: The reason why I specifically said "American" in the title was because I almost exclusively see this trend in America. European men rarely have these racial hang-ups (In my experience).

VictoriousSecret812 reads

A vagina.

That's it.  AA women come from all kinds of cultural backgrounds, come in a variety of skin tones from damn pale to deep ebony, have all kinds of hair and hairstyles from pin straight to locks to natural curls and everything in-between, and have body types from Liya Kebede stick thin to Gabourey Sidibe BBW.  

So you can all fuck right off with that, "I don't like (insert stereotypically AA trait here), so I don't see African American women."  And please spare me the #NotAllHobbyisits bullshit responses because, OBVIOUSLY not all hobbyists think that way, but we're talking about the ones who do.  

See, here's the thing about the way Americans in general think about African Americans (and this goes for hobbyists, sugar daddies, and providers who pull that "No AA Men" shit, too):  A single AA person can represent their entire race.  Saw a black guy who didn't treat you respectfully? NO MORE BLACK MEN!  Saw a black girl whose hair smelled? MUST BE A BLACK GIRL THING! Heard about a black guy ripping off a provider? BLACK MEN AREN'T WORTH THE TROUBLE! Saw a few too many heavyset black girls on TER? BLACK WOMEN'S BODIES JUST AREN'T MY TYPE!  

But white people have the privilege of being seen and understood on an individual level.  How many stories do we read right here about white women and men who have: stolen money, had bad hygiene, were bigger than expected, lied about their age, acted like assholes... The list goes on and on.  But you know what I haven't once seen on here? A single person who took their experiences with unsatisfactory white providers or clients and made a bullshit blanket rule that they wouldn't see white hookers or tricks anymore.  Shit, take a step even further back and ask yourself why aren't more providers saying no to seeing white guys when they're the number one perpetrator of serial killings in this country? Why? Because "That would be crazy! Those are isolated incidents and not at all indicative of the entire white race!"  

Black people in this country, and especially in this hobby, just don't have that privilege.  A few back experiences with African Americans and people are all to quick to say, "Must be all of them! Better not take my chances."  

It's bullshit and it's racist and pretending like it's not is NOT helping anyone

Well said.

Posted By: VictoriousSecret
A vagina.  
   
 That's it.  AA women come from all kinds of cultural backgrounds, come in a variety of skin tones from damn pale to deep ebony, have all kinds of hair and hairstyles from pin straight to locks to natural curls and everything in-between, and have body types from Liya Kebede stick thin to Gabourey Sidibe BBW.    
   
 So you can all fuck right off with that, "I don't like (insert stereotypically AA trait here), so I don't see African American women."  And please spare me the #NotAllHobbyisits bullshit responses because, OBVIOUSLY not all hobbyists think that way, but we're talking about the ones who do.  
   
 See, here's the thing about the way Americans in general think about African Americans (and this goes for hobbyists, sugar daddies, and providers who pull that "No AA Men" shit, too):  A single AA person can represent their entire race.  Saw a black guy who didn't treat you respectfully? NO MORE BLACK MEN!  Saw a black girl whose hair smelled? MUST BE A BLACK GIRL THING! Heard about a black guy ripping off a provider? BLACK MEN AREN'T WORTH THE TROUBLE! Saw a few too many heavyset black girls on TER? BLACK WOMEN'S BODIES JUST AREN'T MY TYPE!  
   
 But white people have the privilege of being seen and understood on an individual level.  How many stories do we read right here about white women and men who have: stolen money, had bad hygiene, were bigger than expected, lied about their age, acted like assholes... The list goes on and on.  But you know what I haven't once seen on here? A single person who took their experiences with unsatisfactory white providers or clients and made a bullshit blanket rule that they wouldn't see white hookers or tricks anymore.  Shit, take a step even further back and ask yourself why aren't more providers saying no to seeing white guys when they're the number one perpetrator of serial killings in this country? Why? Because "That would be crazy! Those are isolated incidents and not at all indicative of the entire white race!"  
   
 Black people in this country, and especially in this hobby, just don't have that privilege.  A few back experiences with African Americans and people are all to quick to say, "Must be all of them! Better not take my chances."  
   
 It's bullshit and it's racist and pretending like it's not is NOT helping anyone.  
   
 

There will always be some who do not like darker skin whether it is an african-american,indian,etc.
I am a provider who is mixed with african-american and other races and it is a shame we are still having this conversation.
But the standard idea of beauty has always been white women.
Times have changed and there are now other examples of beauty besides white blonde or brunette women.
Funny how many white women and other races that are not black will alter themselves and go under the knife to get enhancements to their bodies such as the bigger lips and butt.Which is usually a beauty characteristic that is found in african-american women and other women of color(brazilian,cuban,puerto-rican,etc.)

Many clients I meet that are from other countries love mixed women or african-american women.
I have met quite a few clients here who are white who will only see women who are african-american or mixed with african-american.That is their choice just like the guys who say they don't like darker skin(I wonder if it is just dark african-american women or is it darker women in general.)
Women of each race come in many different colors.For example my mother is Filipina and Irish her skin is darker than mine she clearly got more of the filipina than the Irish.

I read this post and all of the responses and everyone is entitled to their opinions.
This is the beauty of this hobby there are so many beautiful ladies who are intelligent no matter how dark or light their skin may be.
Pick the lady who piques your interest and have fun.
And I agree with the gent who said being a minority I was always told as well you have to work your ass and go over and beyond.But when you do and get the reward in the end it is just that much more sweet:)



-- Modified on 10/10/2015 4:43:05 PM

If not, it is irresponsible to make such statements.  

To whatever extent men do avoid AA women, it could be a number of things, since race is and has always been a big factor in people's conditioning.  

Myself, I enjoy the aesthetics of the contrast in skin, and I like to learn about other cultures.  

But I can see that may not be everyone's cup of tea.  

Posted By: TotalLifeForever
Whether it's indy escorting, agencies or "sugaring", I constantly see clients/SDs saying that they want Caucasians, Asians, Latinas, any race on earth except African-American women. Now I'm asking a honest question; why is that? Is it because you find black women ugly, too heavy in general, or "ghetto" with too much attitude?  
 And please be honest. No need to say the typical "It's just attraction" BS, because Black women come in many shades, sizes and cultures. Or if you want to maintain the act, what do you find unattractive about Black women? Would you change your mind is she was thinner and more petite? lighter skinned? demure and subservient?  
 Or is it Black women from the USA that you don't find attractive? Would it be different if she was Ethiopian, West African, Cuban, Brazilian, or British?  
 Once again please be honest about your opinions. DO NOT be PC (unless that's how you truly feel).  
   
 PS: The reason why I specifically said "American" in the title was because I almost exclusively see this trend in America. European men rarely have these racial hang-ups (In my experience).

is being able to have sex with all kinds of different women (within my preferred body type). As a black man, I love black women. But I love all races, ethnicities, and shades of women. I want to taste every flavor.

irresistible.  The great love of my life for whom I gave up hobbying for years and was almost ready to leave my home, wife, and family is a beautiful Jamaican American lady.  
Like most of us here, I love women and their bodies and the way they move and feel and smell and the way they think. There is something special about individual women, bit I do lobe AA women and find them particularly sexy.

bigguy30565 reads

So black woman are beautiful and very sexy.
I dated woman of all colors but love woman of color the most.
They have nothing to feel ashamed of because other assholes can't appericate their beauty.

The problem I have with questions like this one is very simple.
We all know people in every country hold onto to stereotypes and racists attitudes base on mainly ignorance.
Why let it worry you or keep asking this type of question?
They are the ones with the problem and lose out in the long run for it.
I always tell people never let someone else thinking control how you see yourself.

What would happen if you asked the same question to white men about preferring asian woman.
How about asking asian woman.
Why do they prefer white men over a asian man?
I could imagine the uproar on here because it's really stupid.
Just like this question on black woman.

It's nothing like a sexy woman asian, black, latin or white.
They all are special in their own ways and very beautiful too.

 
 

Posted By: TotalLifeForever
Whether it's indy escorting, agencies or "sugaring", I constantly see clients/SDs saying that they want Caucasians, Asians, Latinas, any race on earth except African-American women. Now I'm asking a honest question; why is that? Is it because you find black women ugly, too heavy in general, or "ghetto" with too much attitude?  
 And please be honest. No need to say the typical "It's just attraction" BS, because Black women come in many shades, sizes and cultures. Or if you want to maintain the act, what do you find unattractive about Black women? Would you change your mind is she was thinner and more petite? lighter skinned? demure and subservient?  
 Or is it Black women from the USA that you don't find attractive? Would it be different if she was Ethiopian, West African, Cuban, Brazilian, or British?  
 Once again please be honest about your opinions. DO NOT be PC (unless that's how you truly feel).  
   
 PS: The reason why I specifically said "American" in the title was because I almost exclusively see this trend in America. European men rarely have these racial hang-ups (In my experience).

And I also assume that as the current demographic change continues to accelerate and our American society becomes increasingly diverse the standard for beauty will change too. Fortunately, media is only too eager to embrace diversity now that there is money to be made from it.   (Apologies for using the trendy, over-worked word "diversity" but it actually is useful here.)

GaGambler605 reads

and in the context that you used it, even an "anti PC" guy like me won't cry foul for using it. IOW I agree with your point. It all comes down to money. At one point in this country marketing to "negroes" seemed pointless as black people were perceived as having little spending power. Now look at todays "diverse" (see I can use it too) marketplace. Companies and the media would be idiots not to change with the changing demographics of the marketplace.

As for beauty, I think that ship has already sailed, and I sincerely believe that whining from women of color who can't command a high rate is just that "whining" Londyn manages to get a thousand fucking dollars an hour. It's no wonder she's not whining. Many other black women here keep very full dance cards, so I would suggest the OP look in the mirror for her answers, racism is not to blame for everything wrong in a persons life although it's a convenient cop out.

Simply put, it is conditioning. Not only that but human beings LOVE to categorize things. It's how our brain functions. We want things to fit neatly into a preordained neat little box, and when things don't fit it tends to make us anxious. We are HIGHLY influenced by the world we live in, even in ways we may not realize. Growing up we all saw advertising, learned about this country's history with minorities, the news, how people talked about other people, and how people treated other people. Even the smallest events, that you may not even remember, had an impact on your preference today. It's quite ingrained in us, this social conditioning.

 
There was a study done a few years ago which found that asian men and black women were the least desirable. Isn't that something! Not surprising though, as these groups are painted as the least masculine and the least feminine of all groups respectively, and when you are painted as such of course you'll find that you are the least preferred.

Now obviously, all this doesn't apply to any one individual's case, but as a society it is a noticeable trend!

All I can do is try harder to show people that not everyone fits these stereotypes. I'm far from the "ghetto" girl that grew up in an urban environment (though it's important to note that I am NO better than that girl). We're all just different

Posted By: lily.adele
Simply put, it is conditioning.
Some studies suggest that it is millenia of evolutionary conditioning. Men chose women for fertility and ability to survive and nurture their offspring. That turned out to be (simplified version) hips of a certain width as a good sign of being able to bear healthy children without the need for an epidural or C-section, neither of which existed 30,000 years ago. A healthy waist line meant good health and long-term self-survival, ability to gather food, run away and escape from saber-toothed tigers and other predators (TER and verification sites didn't exist back then, either).  

[bold]There is a school that believes that these preferences are ingrained in our DNA.[/bold]

(The original studies were sort of: have modern men sort full body silhouettes and profiles according to attractiveness; NO RACIAL FEATURES WERE INCLUDED; look for the factors that correlate with the ordering; it wasn't big boobs, it wasn't small hands, it wasn't length of arms or legs, it wasn't the ratio of head size to torso, ... it wasn't JUST a thin waist, ... the best correlation was waist-to-hip ratio.)

Only as societies became more stable and cultures began to appear did additional artificial attributes become important.  I've seen the National Geographic specials about African, Asian and South American tribes: plate-lipped women - the larger the plate-lip, the more attractive (maybe as a sign of family wealth?); neck ring women - the more rings, the more desirable the woman; foot binding; other artificial, culturally imposed symbols of beauty and attractiveness (like an iPhone 6 with bling).  

There was a study done a few years ago which found that asian men and black women were the least desirable. Isn't that something! Not surprising though, as these groups are painted as the least masculine and the least feminine of all groups
The waist-to-hip researchers have done similar studies to find what traits women find attractive in men.  I seem to recall that shoulder-to-waist or shoulder-to-hip ratio was a major correlator.  Wide shoulders = strong upper body strength to be able to lug home a mastodon carcass after the hunt.  Small waist so she doesn't have to skin more animals and take more time to make him a nice loin cloth or pair of deerskin lounging pajamas.  

I don't know the numbers, but I'm sure the researchers have data that says that Asian men, in general, have narrower shoulders than other groups, so Asian men (with facial features obscured, just on the basis of silhouettes) will lose out to the genetic preference for a larger shoulder-to-hip ratio.  

Obviously, in a homogeneous place (Asia 10,000 years ago), Asian women were choosing among Asian men, not ALL men.

I, too, have read about some of the studies about AA female faces being the least feminine but I don't remember the Asian male face studies.

Now obviously, all this doesn't apply to any one individual's case, but as a society it is a noticeable trend!
Yes, it is, partially, a result of evolution.  

Modern culture has provided and even imposed additional selection criteria. Make-up, clothing, accessories, and the incessant popularization of certain looks, even if it goes against the basics.  

I guess SNL's "The Widettes" helped to popularize the Steatopygian Look that some people are embracing today.  But instead of packing on a "fat suit", they're packing on the Quarter Pounders

Whenever I'm in Europe or the Middle East it feels as though the men are falling over themselves to get to me. I think in some places perhaps Black women or even dark skin in general is more fetishized because my dark skinned Indian girlfriends have the same experience whenever they visit Europe.  

In the U.S. I feel adored. I am often complimented on my complexion (milk chocolate), body (petite hourglass) and features (large eyes and pouty lips). These are features that are typical in the women from where I'm from. To me, I look like your quintessential Bajan beach girl, so there are definitely men here who appreciate the beauty of women of African descent.  

I am so lucky that I've yet to come across these type of people in person. An avoidance to an entire ethnicity is an internal issue. Like someone stated earlier in the thread: the only thing Black women have in common is being Black. There are so many shapes, sizes, colors, ethnicities, personalities, etc. that saying that you are not attracted to Black women is saying that you are not attracted to the ridiculous caricatures of Black women that you've created in your own psyche.

rollaxroll546 reads

It's not psyche.  It's just personal taste.  For example, I don't like BBW very heavy lady either.  I can easily pick a slim black girl than a very obese white girl, although I prefer light skin color.  If a girl is perfect everything else but just very obese, I still won't see her.  You can say I am psyche about obesity.  

By the way. I found your pics showing a perfect body shape which is way better than most of other girls, and your skin color is not very dark at least not on the pixtures.  Can't see your face in the pics, If your face is attractive to me, this will be a girl I love to meet. Although I don't like very dark girl in general, but every case is different.  

Posted By: AvaLondon
Whenever I'm in Europe or the Middle East it feels as though the men are falling over themselves to get to me. I think in some places perhaps Black women or even dark skin in general is more fetishized because my dark skinned Indian girlfriends have the same experience whenever they visit Europe.  
   
 In the U.S. I feel adored. I am often complimented on my complexion (milk chocolate), body (petite hourglass) and features (large eyes and pouty lips). These are features that are typical in the women from where I'm from. To me, I look like your quintessential Bajan beach girl, so there are definitely men here who appreciate the beauty of women of African descent.  
   
 I am so lucky that I've yet to come across these type of people in person. An avoidance to an entire ethnicity is an internal issue. Like someone stated earlier in the thread: the only thing Black women have in common is being Black. There are so many shapes, sizes, colors, ethnicities, personalities, etc. that saying that you are not attracted to Black women is saying that you are not attracted to the ridiculous caricatures of Black women that you've created in your own psyche.

Bill_Brasky599 reads

I've also been with plenty of dark-skinned women just because they happened to be so damn sexy.  In the end it's more about chemistry than skin color.

bigguy30636 reads

It's sounds so typical coming from you.

Posted By: Bill_Brasky
I've also been with plenty of dark-skinned women just because they happened to be so damn sexy.  In the end it's more about chemistry than skin color.

My ex-wife and ex-girlfriend were Native American.  Most of the providers I have seen were African American.  My ATF is Hawaiian.  And even though my preference is dark, I've spent some quality time with a few white chicks as well.  Those who are not open minded are missing out on life.

I don't base my decisions on color, but on overall looks when considering a provider. Given that I'm over 60, I may be in a relatively smaller pool of guys who feel that way.

Two providers I've seen have been AA, and both have been knockouts.  

If you're having problems, could it be your marketing, your photos, or simply that your looks and reviews aren't TER 8 to 10

Here_I_Go506 reads

I wonder how many hobbyists actually use race as a search criteria?  Could it be that you are seeing some skewing based upon clients who actually select based upon race?  

I search based upon ratings, reviews, personality if possible, body type and overall attractiveness.  For me I run into supply issues with AA ladies.  Rarely do they even show up after my first phase of research.  When they do, I go for it.   Recently I had a session with an AA provider, and I was destined to be a repeat customer.  Then she retired a couple of months later. Dammit.

With that said, racism is alive and well and a huge problem.  So I am not disputing what you are saying.  But maybe it is not as prevalent as it seems.

I see that alot also, but it's like you want to see me see me if not your lost. Some people like what they like, just as long as you don't call me a spic like one client did I'm good. No need to disrespect just don't see me.  

I hate it but the more things change the more they remind the same...

Dfusethesituation584 reads

As a black male, I see the discrimination from the opposite end of the spectrum.  Not saying it is or isn't warranted.  Truthfully, as race in this business market, some of the bad seeds have ruined it for the majority of us.  There are a lot of clients who just do not know how to treat a woman and are disrespectful, too aggressive, and try to rob, cheat and steal from them.  On the flip side, a lot of black providers on here have really bad reviews, not all, as there are some outstanding black women in the market.  From what I have seen, there is absolutely a market for black women, whether it be different races of men who have always wanted to try or white clients who love black women. You just have to find it.  Truthfully speaking, I am a fan of tits, fake tits, big tits etc and if they so happen to come on a black woman then she's getting a call!  Not saying that is the end all be all, I love a girl with a nice ass as well, so I guess its just a matter of preference at that point in time.  

Posted By: TotalLifeForever
Whether it's indy escorting, agencies or "sugaring", I constantly see clients/SDs saying that they want Caucasians, Asians, Latinas, any race on earth except African-American women. Now I'm asking a honest question; why is that? Is it because you find black women ugly, too heavy in general, or "ghetto" with too much attitude?  
 And please be honest. No need to say the typical "It's just attraction" BS, because Black women come in many shades, sizes and cultures. Or if you want to maintain the act, what do you find unattractive about Black women? Would you change your mind is she was thinner and more petite? lighter skinned? demure and subservient?  
 Or is it Black women from the USA that you don't find attractive? Would it be different if she was Ethiopian, West African, Cuban, Brazilian, or British?  
 Once again please be honest about your opinions. DO NOT be PC (unless that's how you truly feel).  
   
 PS: The reason why I specifically said "American" in the title was because I almost exclusively see this trend in America. European men rarely have these racial hang-ups (In my experience).

VictoriousSecret625 reads

See, this is EXACTLY the problem and where you can see the inherent racism in this issue.

It's racist bullshit that "some of the bad seeds" have ruined it for the majority of black guys, but that same logic doesn't seem to apply when people are considering white providers/clients.  Why didn't some of the many bad seeds that happen to be caucasian cause providers and clients alike to want to avoid most of them?

Dfusethesituation637 reads

My sentiment exactly.  My guess if that we are the minority and white clients are the greater majority within the hobbying world and a girl can't very well turn away what would be the majority of their income, if I had to guess.  I will ad that this rule is almost exclusively utilized only within the lower ranks of provider ads such as BP.  With that being said, it shows a lack of quality, and professionalism in the provider because all or most drama can be avoided by simply screening clients.

I completely agree! I even had a client from Europe who told me America is very racist compared to where he lives, community wise & more ...  

& even in this business I have literally ran into a client who told me “he doesn't really like colored girls but he heard they do more & are nastier" ... I didn't know our color made us a different species!

Being of Belizean Kriol (Afro-Belizean) I deal with a lot of adversity as well! Even our rates are expected to be lower! I just wanna wish all the ladies of melanin a successful & safe career!

XOXO,
Ms. Leila Lovely

TER ID: 277407

P411 ID: P189134

I could talk about this for hours.

Being not only a black woman, but one with natural hair, the vast majority of the gentlemen I have seen have said those two traits were part of the reason why they chose to see me. Whether it's the exoticism of it or an actual preference, that has been my experience. I've actually seen gentlemen who truly believe that there is something genetic that universally separates black women from all others...intimately. I can't say I agree, but it is an intriguing thought.  

The truth is, white women (specifically tall and slender) dominate most US industries based in beauty because they represent the "norm" of what is attractive here. I'm not complaining, it's just the truth, and there many reasons for it. I think it's largely due to social conditioning, but hey, what do I know?

I was watching a documentary on the science of attraction, and for whatever reason, in whatever group of people we find ourselves attracted to, the majority of us tend to prefer people in the lighter end of the spectrum. I'm not saying this is a fact, that's just what studies tell us.  

In terms of traits other than beauty, I have found that many people tend to make assumptions about others based on race, which, I think, is why is very important to let gentlemen (and people in general) get a sense of who we really are so they can quickly get past these assumptions. I do this through my writing, and it has served me well thus far.

Do not let this deter you. If anything, I welcome the challenge, and if a gentleman does not want to see me solely based on my looks, then I probably wouldn't want to see him either.

bigguy30505 reads

Posted By: ANaturalBeauty
I could talk about this for hours.  
   
 Being not only a black woman, but one with natural hair, the vast majority of the gentlemen I have seen have said those two traits were part of the reason why they chose to see me. Whether it's the exoticism of it or an actual preference, that has been my experience. I've actually seen gentlemen who truly believe that there is something genetic that universally separates black women from all others...intimately. I can't say I agree, but it is an intriguing thought.    
   
 The truth is, white women (specifically tall and slender) dominate most US industries based in beauty because they represent the "norm" of what is attractive here. I'm not complaining, it's just the truth, and there many reasons for it. I think it's largely due to social conditioning, but hey, what do I know?  
   
 I was watching a documentary on the science of attraction, and for whatever reason, in whatever group of people we find ourselves attracted to, the majority of us tend to prefer people in the lighter end of the spectrum. I'm not saying this is a fact, that's just what studies tell us.  
   
 In terms of traits other than beauty, I have found that many people tend to make assumptions about others based on race, which, I think, is why is very important to let gentlemen (and people in general) get a sense of who we really are so they can quickly get past these assumptions. I do this through my writing, and it has served me well thus far.  
   
 Do not let this deter you. If anything, I welcome the challenge, and if a gentleman does not want to see me solely based on my looks, then I probably wouldn't want to see him either.

TotalLifeForever626 reads

Their skin tone and them being too dark (according to the responses), and many cases of generalization too. I've also noticed that most of the positive responses from Black providers, dismissing the statement were by ones who fall on the lighter end of the color spectrum, which is interesting.  

About me: I am a provider with great reviews, size 2, considered attractive by many, affordable rates, excellent pictures and marketing; so no, I don't have a problem bringing in clients (who are 99% white by the way).  

Why did I ask the question? : I have numerous non-Black sex worker friends, and they tend to attract a higher volume of client despite having average looks, and mediocre marketing. Therefore, it does feel bothersome when my potential is overlooked simply because I was born with a darker skin tone.  

Why the Alias? : Asking questions that make clients uncomfortable and purposely dodge the point taints the fantasy; and of course, no likes to be pointed as the one who plays the "race card" (Although this issue is as real as it gets, but then isn't ignorance bliss? Especially when one doesn't have to deal with the pitfalls of being "too dark"?).

bigguy30528 reads

The problem might be you not expanding your business beyond just white clients.
It might explain why you feel the way you do.
So I bet your a beautiful woman and you can't worry about the other non black sex workers.
Just focus on yourself and growing your business with a more diverse client base.
 

Posted By: TotalLifeForever
Their skin tone and them being too dark (according to the responses), and many cases of generalization too. I've also noticed that most of the positive responses from Black providers, dismissing the statement were by ones who fall on the lighter end of the color spectrum, which is interesting.  
   
 About me: I am a provider with great reviews, size 2, considered attractive by many, affordable rates, excellent pictures and marketing; so no, I don't have a problem bringing in clients (who are 99% white by the way).  
   
 Why did I ask the question? : I have numerous non-Black sex worker friends, and they tend to attract a higher volume of client despite having average looks, and mediocre marketing. Therefore, it does feel bothersome when my potential is overlooked simply because I was born with a darker skin tone.  
   
 Why the Alias? : Asking questions that make clients uncomfortable and purposely dodge the point taints the fantasy; and of course, no likes to be pointed as the one who plays the "race card" (Although this issue is as real as it gets, but then isn't ignorance bliss? Especially when one doesn't have to deal with the pitfalls of being "too dark"?).

BECAUSE THAT WILL JUST LEAVE MORE FOR ME!!!!

Don't get me wrong, I'm cool with personal preferences.  I get it.  But any man who would use melanin level (race) as a discriminator is, to put it kindly, cheating himself.

I love all women: tall ones, short ones; thick ones, thin ones; rich ones, poor ones; white, pink, olive, yellow, mocha, brown, and black ones.  After all they are (literally) God's gift to man.

But AA women are, in my experience, hands down the best.  When treated with kindness, gentleness, respect and patience they are like a hot cup of cocoa on a cold winter day; a hot bath after a strenuous workout; a soft warm bed after a long hard day; warm sheets right out of the dryer...and then they can make love to you in a way that meets every need and completes every fantasy.  And after they are done, they can hold you in just the right way as you fall asleep in perfect peace.  OMG!

Much love to all my ladies of color.  Be proud of who you are, to thine own self be true, and good things will come your way.

God bless.  

PEACE

While I stand by earlier response, I love women regardless of race, there is one thing that will make me lose an erection immediately and that is ghetto talk. This is not to say only black women talk ghetto, I just had an amazing session with an incredible woman who happens to be black (she did request that I not review, too bad because she rocked it). She did not talk in ebonics, which IS NOT a language.  

All senses are aroused in this small world of ours, and if I hear "I axed my friend" instead of "I asked my friend", I am immediately turned off. I could understand someone shortening a word being lazy (don't agree with it but understand it), but axed or aksed (whichever it is) is still one syllable, its not shortened, and it suggests a lack of intelligence and turns me off.  

Again, not all black women speak this garbage and some women of other races do. This last date I had, she is a Realtor, and so communication is of the essence for her, so she doesn't speak that garbage, she wouldn't be very successful if she did. Anyone who meets her will know in the first few minutes of meeting her that she has intelligence, poise and class, not only that but she's a knockout and one of the best providers that I've ever had the pleasure of spending time with.

I'll admit that I have chosen one provider over another because I was hesitant to book time with a woman who might talk ghetto. If you talk ghetto, you'll never get out of the ghetto and lets face it no one is proud to live in the ghetto and most everyone that lives in the ghetto is trying to get out.  

I do now and have in the past worked with many Black people, all of the successful Black people I've worked with do not talk that garbage, there is simply no place for it in the business world, a person who does talk ghetto will lose respect immediately in the business world (rightfully so). I have also worked around Black folks, and folks of every race, who talk ghetto and they are never in any position of authority or leaders in any respect and thus they work menial jobs which are low paying and all they do is complain about their plight. The reason that they don't have positions of authority, or are leaders, is because of the lack of intelligence and respect that talking ghetto warrants.

I am not racist, it's simply a waste of time and energy. I was taught that you treat everyone with respect until they give you a reason not to. But I imagine that everyone who has read this post to this point, understand my feelings about ghetto talk.

TotalLifeForever543 reads

So basically you overlooked some providers who "might" act "ghetto"? That explains a lot. I bet they were not the shade of snow.  

Posted By: russbbj
While I stand by earlier response, I love women regardless of race, there is one thing that will make me lose an erection immediately and that is ghetto talk. This is not to say only black women talk ghetto, I just had an amazing session with an incredible woman who happens to be black (she did request that I not review, too bad because she rocked it). She did not talk in ebonics, which IS NOT a language.  
   
 All senses are aroused in this small world of ours, and if I hear "I axed my friend" instead of "I asked my friend", I am immediately turned off. I could understand someone shortening a word being lazy (don't agree with it but understand it), but axed or aksed (whichever it is) is still one syllable, its not shortened, and it suggests a lack of intelligence and turns me off.  
   
 Again, not all black women speak this garbage and some women of other races do. This last date I had, she is a Realtor, and so communication is of the essence for her, so she doesn't speak that garbage, she wouldn't be very successful if she did. Anyone who meets her will know in the first few minutes of meeting her that she has intelligence, poise and class, not only that but she's a knockout and one of the best providers that I've ever had the pleasure of spending time with.  
   
 I'll admit that I have chosen one provider over another because I was hesitant to book time with a woman who might talk ghetto. If you talk ghetto, you'll never get out of the ghetto and lets face it no one is proud to live in the ghetto and most everyone that lives in the ghetto is trying to get out.  
   
 I do now and have in the past worked with many Black people, all of the successful Black people I've worked with do not talk that garbage, there is simply no place for it in the business world, a person who does talk ghetto will lose respect immediately in the business world (rightfully so). I have also worked around Black folks, and folks of every race, who talk ghetto and they are never in any position of authority or leaders in any respect and thus they work menial jobs which are low paying and all they do is complain about their plight. The reason that they don't have positions of authority, or are leaders, is because of the lack of intelligence and respect that talking ghetto warrants.  
   
 I am not racist, it's simply a waste of time and energy. I was taught that you treat everyone with respect until they give you a reason not to. But I imagine that everyone who has read this post to this point, understand my feelings about ghetto talk.

bigguy30552 reads

So you said yourself 99% white in your earlier comment.
It also sounds like you need to change your mind set too.
Just so that you don't have to worry or ask question like the thread here.

 
 

Posted By: TotalLifeForever
So basically you overlooked some providers who "might" act "ghetto"? That explains a lot. I bet they were not the shade of snow.  
   
Posted By: russbbj
While I stand by earlier response, I love women regardless of race, there is one thing that will make me lose an erection immediately and that is ghetto talk. This is not to say only black women talk ghetto, I just had an amazing session with an incredible woman who happens to be black (she did request that I not review, too bad because she rocked it). She did not talk in ebonics, which IS NOT a language.    
     
  All senses are aroused in this small world of ours, and if I hear "I axed my friend" instead of "I asked my friend", I am immediately turned off. I could understand someone shortening a word being lazy (don't agree with it but understand it), but axed or aksed (whichever it is) is still one syllable, its not shortened, and it suggests a lack of intelligence and turns me off.    
     
  Again, not all black women speak this garbage and some women of other races do. This last date I had, she is a Realtor, and so communication is of the essence for her, so she doesn't speak that garbage, she wouldn't be very successful if she did. Anyone who meets her will know in the first few minutes of meeting her that she has intelligence, poise and class, not only that but she's a knockout and one of the best providers that I've ever had the pleasure of spending time with.  
     
  I'll admit that I have chosen one provider over another because I was hesitant to book time with a woman who might talk ghetto. If you talk ghetto, you'll never get out of the ghetto and lets face it no one is proud to live in the ghetto and most everyone that lives in the ghetto is trying to get out.    
     
  I do now and have in the past worked with many Black people, all of the successful Black people I've worked with do not talk that garbage, there is simply no place for it in the business world, a person who does talk ghetto will lose respect immediately in the business world (rightfully so). I have also worked around Black folks, and folks of every race, who talk ghetto and they are never in any position of authority or leaders in any respect and thus they work menial jobs which are low paying and all they do is complain about their plight. The reason that they don't have positions of authority, or are leaders, is because of the lack of intelligence and respect that talking ghetto warrants.  
     
  I am not racist, it's simply a waste of time and energy. I was taught that you treat everyone with respect until they give you a reason not to. But I imagine that everyone who has read this post to this point, understand my feelings about ghetto talk.

TotalLifeForever568 reads

I do not need to change my mindset, the White clients CHOOSE me. I do not exclude anyone based on their racial backgrounds, that's just who I attract. How hard is it to understand?

 

Posted By: bigguy30
So you said yourself 99% white in your earlier comment.  
 It also sounds like you need to change your mind set too.  
 Just so that you don't have to worry or ask question like the thread here.  
   
   
   
   
Posted By: TotalLifeForever
So basically you overlooked some providers who "might" act "ghetto"? That explains a lot. I bet they were not the shade of snow.    
     
Posted By: russbbj
While I stand by earlier response, I love women regardless of race, there is one thing that will make me lose an erection immediately and that is ghetto talk. This is not to say only black women talk ghetto, I just had an amazing session with an incredible woman who happens to be black (she did request that I not review, too bad because she rocked it). She did not talk in ebonics, which IS NOT a language.    
       
   All senses are aroused in this small world of ours, and if I hear "I axed my friend" instead of "I asked my friend", I am immediately turned off. I could understand someone shortening a word being lazy (don't agree with it but understand it), but axed or aksed (whichever it is) is still one syllable, its not shortened, and it suggests a lack of intelligence and turns me off.    
       
   Again, not all black women speak this garbage and some women of other races do. This last date I had, she is a Realtor, and so communication is of the essence for her, so she doesn't speak that garbage, she wouldn't be very successful if she did. Anyone who meets her will know in the first few minutes of meeting her that she has intelligence, poise and class, not only that but she's a knockout and one of the best providers that I've ever had the pleasure of spending time with.    
       
   I'll admit that I have chosen one provider over another because I was hesitant to book time with a woman who might talk ghetto. If you talk ghetto, you'll never get out of the ghetto and lets face it no one is proud to live in the ghetto and most everyone that lives in the ghetto is trying to get out.    
       
   I do now and have in the past worked with many Black people, all of the successful Black people I've worked with do not talk that garbage, there is simply no place for it in the business world, a person who does talk ghetto will lose respect immediately in the business world (rightfully so). I have also worked around Black folks, and folks of every race, who talk ghetto and they are never in any position of authority or leaders in any respect and thus they work menial jobs which are low paying and all they do is complain about their plight. The reason that they don't have positions of authority, or are leaders, is because of the lack of intelligence and respect that talking ghetto warrants.    
       
   I am not racist, it's simply a waste of time and energy. I was taught that you treat everyone with respect until they give you a reason not to. But I imagine that everyone who has read this post to this point, understand my feelings about ghetto talk.

bigguy30519 reads

So that's who you attract and you can't make some changes to that number??
I understand completely and this is on you.

The whole question is really base on how to attract more white clients?
Since this all you seem to attract in your business.
If this is your business then you have the power to work towards balancing out that client base number too.

Then you would not have to ask thread questions like this one.
Just like any other business diversifying is the key.
They open up more avenues to make more money.

 

Posted By: TotalLifeForever
I do not need to change my mindset, the White clients CHOOSE me. I do not exclude anyone based on their racial backgrounds, that's just who I attract. How hard is it to understand?  
   
   
   
Posted By: bigguy30
So you said yourself 99% white in your earlier comment.  
  It also sounds like you need to change your mind set too.  
  Just so that you don't have to worry or ask question like the thread here.  
     
     
     
     
Posted By: TotalLifeForever
So basically you overlooked some providers who "might" act "ghetto"? That explains a lot. I bet they were not the shade of snow.    
       
   
Posted By: russbbj
While I stand by earlier response, I love women regardless of race, there is one thing that will make me lose an erection immediately and that is ghetto talk. This is not to say only black women talk ghetto, I just had an amazing session with an incredible woman who happens to be black (she did request that I not review, too bad because she rocked it). She did not talk in ebonics, which IS NOT a language.      
         
    All senses are aroused in this small world of ours, and if I hear "I axed my friend" instead of "I asked my friend", I am immediately turned off. I could understand someone shortening a word being lazy (don't agree with it but understand it), but axed or aksed (whichever it is) is still one syllable, its not shortened, and it suggests a lack of intelligence and turns me off.      
         
    Again, not all black women speak this garbage and some women of other races do. This last date I had, she is a Realtor, and so communication is of the essence for her, so she doesn't speak that garbage, she wouldn't be very successful if she did. Anyone who meets her will know in the first few minutes of meeting her that she has intelligence, poise and class, not only that but she's a knockout and one of the best providers that I've ever had the pleasure of spending time with.    
         
    I'll admit that I have chosen one provider over another because I was hesitant to book time with a woman who might talk ghetto. If you talk ghetto, you'll never get out of the ghetto and lets face it no one is proud to live in the ghetto and most everyone that lives in the ghetto is trying to get out.      
         
    I do now and have in the past worked with many Black people, all of the successful Black people I've worked with do not talk that garbage, there is simply no place for it in the business world, a person who does talk ghetto will lose respect immediately in the business world (rightfully so). I have also worked around Black folks, and folks of every race, who talk ghetto and they are never in any position of authority or leaders in any respect and thus they work menial jobs which are low paying and all they do is complain about their plight. The reason that they don't have positions of authority, or are leaders, is because of the lack of intelligence and respect that talking ghetto warrants.    
         
    I am not racist, it's simply a waste of time and energy. I was taught that you treat everyone with respect until they give you a reason not to. But I imagine that everyone who has read this post to this point, understand my feelings about ghetto talk.

Don't know if I'm a minority here or not, but this white boy happens to LOVE African American women. Dark skinned, brown skinned, light skinned, thick and thin, I love them all. I've seen runway model types, and urban types rockin tats, body piercings, and gold teeth. Perms, corn rows, braids, extensions, or a fro. I dig em all. Something about African American women is just “oh so right” for me. I love them for their intelligence, beauty, strength, grace, and style. They're like no other woman on earth, and should be loved and appreciated for the national treasure that they are. Us American men are very fortunate to have them all to ourselves!

So why do I think some American men dislike black women? In terms of hobbyists, I think it comes down to generational differences. I'm not basing this on anything factual, these are just some of my thoughts. I imagine your typical hobbyist is a white male over the age of 50, which means he grew up during the 50's/60's when public schools, restaurants, public transportation, etc. were segregated. I actually remember when they integrated the public elementary school I went to in Warren, Ohio, and they started bussing inner city black kids into our school. It caused an uproar amongst the white parents of the students there (mine included, regretfully). But as for us students, after a short period of adjustment, we came to realize that despite our outward appearances, we weren't all that different from one another. We all had the same basic needs and wants. Some lessons learned when you are a child stick with you for the rest of your life. I think older generations got robbed of that opportunity. Exposure to different races and cultures gives you a greater understanding of them. You can't have an understanding of something you've never been exposed to. It's unfortunate that lack of exposure leads to misunderstanding, bigotry, racism, and in extreme cases, violence and persecution. Interracial relationships were inconceivable to people of my parents generation. I'm in an interracial relationship. I think that's a pretty big mental leap in a single generation.  

I don't mean to bag on older generations here. Many overcame the narrow views of segregation. It's unfortunate that some did not, and then passed those views on to their offspring. And so the cycle continues. Let's hope it lessons with each passing generation. My 2c~~~~Rob

I like dark-skinned women, they are hard to come by in Canada. They are considered exotic and the good ones often command higher rates compared to white ladies of equal talent and looks.

American ladies usually don't tour Canada, so come on up!

I think someone messaged me in response to this post. If you could, please forward your response to [email protected]. I would love to read what you had to say, but my VIP expired.

This country was founded by American men that loved having sex with black women.
It is our legacy.

Now keep calm and
have sex with a black woman.

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