Unlike someone else I know that has a few whitelists but has NEVER written a single review here despite being one of the boards biggest blabbermouths for over a decade. Now THAT is suspect, questionable, and totally unreliable. I can't imagine how that guy ever gets a lady to see him, but from what I have heard, he doesn't seem to have any problems in that regard, go figure.
What good is a verification service if providers still ask for 2 or more references? Why waste money on a verification service that has all your personal information that is ready to be hacked? Providers always want references with a email and website. If I'm whitelisted on TER why do they bother contacting references? I may have good references but that doesn't mean those references are dependable in responding to another provider. I've lost opportunities because references don't reply.
A personal experience from a hooker who has been with you is sometimes the difference between a booking or radio silence.
Guys can pass the verification but fail the "in person" test. Too rough, inappropriate questioning, bad hygiene, these things can be told from references NOT a verification service.
I will agree that some hookers suck at giving references and may or may not call/email back in time. These hookers make it harder for you and for other hookers who rely on the "in person" details.
I will give as many details as the lady wants to make the session safe for her and to help you out getting the booking.
-- Modified on 9/5/2015 5:14:32 PM
and there will always be others. This is simple, see providers whose verification requirements match your tolerance for dealing with them. But don't forget that the more strict she is with her process, the safer for both of you. Kind of no way around that - the easier, the riskier. Happy hunting.
...and how bad I want to see them. I still have limits to the amount of info I give, but I may try a little harder for ones I really want to see. Never used a verification service. EVERYONE gets hacked sooner or later it seems. I usually stick to the ones that accept my whitelists for reference.
that you'll be compatible.
Also, a guy may have white lists, but not every white list of his will be a good choice for a reference. If he just gives me his whitelists or OKs as references, I always ask which lady they'd like me to contact in case he has a preference. Reasons he might not want me to contact just any lady on his whitelist (or his OKs) include:
--She's a jealous crazy provider who will freak out on him (or me) if another provider asks for a reference (recently had this situation)
--She'll give him a bad reference because she's a jealous crazy provider
--They no longer have a good relationship for whatever reason
WLs are more icing than anything else. I have a shit ton of them but I'd be concerned about any provider that took them at face value, or who contacted any of them without checking with me first.
White lists without reviews.
That is suspect, questionable and totally unreliable.
-- Modified on 9/6/2015 10:28:08 AM
Unlike someone else I know that has a few whitelists but has NEVER written a single review here despite being one of the boards biggest blabbermouths for over a decade. Now THAT is suspect, questionable, and totally unreliable. I can't imagine how that guy ever gets a lady to see him, but from what I have heard, he doesn't seem to have any problems in that regard, go figure.
xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo
...who take pity on you by whitelisting you even though you don't write reviews. Isn't it amazing how many hundreds (maybe thousands in your case) of charitable ladies you and I have found over the last ten years who have taken pity on us and graciously allowed us to see them?
...great reviews for whitelists? Why are my whitelists more questionable than someone who kisses a provider's ass in order to get one? There's no quid pro quo for my whitelists (I'll wait while you look up what "quid pro quo" means). Please explain how the deuce you deduced that my whitelists are unreliable.
Yet one more good reason for using an alias - so people can't tell how dumb one is.
charitable ladies who take pity on you
Arovet likes agency girls more than Indys, and the agencies tend not to whitelist, thus why he has more reviews than whitelists. Either way, 12 or 1212, they shouldn't be used solely for "verification".
-- Modified on 9/6/2015 9:11:23 PM
you and bigpapsmear who are having a breakdown
You'll take his word on which lady to contact? What if he's doing favors for her for good references?
Especially the ones he does not mention. In fact I don't ask, I just contact randomly.
I haven't seen a single one of the women that have whitelisted me, and I have NO idea why they whitelisted me in the first place.
This has happened to me so many times that I don't even bother contacting Admin about it any more, but it forces me to agree that Whitelists are a horrible way to screen. Okays on P411 are a completely different matter and 90% of the women I book through P 411 ask me for no other information than they can get on their own using the tools given to them by P 411, which of course includes my phone number which is NOT a burner phone. I don't advise that other guys use their real number like I do, but if it makes it easier for a provider to screen me without bugging me to do all her work for her, it's a small price to pay for convenience IMO.
I made in my response.I have heard this from other guys they have whitelists but have not seen these providers.I don't know why a provider would do this.But it just proves cannot take whitelists at face value so when guys think whitelist is the end all to be all and get upset because providers have to verify.
This is the reason why.
but the facts prove otherwise, I do not blame a woman in the least for NOT relying on Whitelists for screening as I myself am proof positive that the system is full of abuse. For the life of me, I have ZERO idea why any woman, especially women from other states would want to Whitelist some guy they have never met, but they do.
But I do contact P411 okays for sure. The ladies have to see the guys in order to right an okay.
When using my whitelists, I advise the provider any of them can be contacted for a referral. I've never automatically gotten a whitelist referral from a provider so the ones I have, we're selectively asked for.
Sometimes the okays on a verification site are old and in some cases the provider is still listed as an okay but she is not even in this business anymore.So in those cases I can see a provider asking if you have any more references or maybe a more recent one.
I do check if a gent has whitelists and if he mentions that I can contact one of them or maybe someone he reviewed that is great.But I am for sure going to check with him first and then the provider.
I have a had few gents say they have whitelists from providers who they may have spoken with and in some cases they did not.But there is a whitelist there and the guy never saw this provider.
So that is one of the reasons why I cannot trust a whitelist at face value without checking.
I agree some providers are not dependable when it comes to returning reference requests in a timely fashion and then there are some who are not provider friendly.
There are others who respond very fast and are very helpful.
I provide references and also request them depending on the situation but I would not solely depend on a reference to get back to me.There is always alternative options to verifying besides a reference.
If I waited for every reference to get back to me before I accepted an appt there would be quite a bit of guys I would not get to see.
Always best to have references that are current, but being a member of one of the verification sites is also helpful. White listings also can work...I remember when attending my first M&G in Vegas, the organizer saw that one my ATF's had white listed me, and he also knew her, and was white listed That's all the screening I needed...
I was out of action for a few years for personal reasons. I have been on TER for a long time but with my reviews and white list entries out of date. I jointed P411 and began with one lovely person in the area. I have slowly and with great pleasure accumulated a reasonable number of O.K.s and some additions to the white list. Still. the most recent lady I saw wanted to call some references from among the OKs. I was fortunate in that they are recent and remembered me.
It always seem "impolite" to ask one lady I have seen to OK the meeting with another lady, but without what has become a rather well set up network apparently centered on TER with the help of P411 or one of the others and what seem to be a sister hood of professionals, it is working and I am grateful.
I think there's just something about another lady writing and saying "this guy is great - have fun!" I can understand wanting to be able to see someone asap and skip the red tape, but it really is important to help a provider feel safe by acquiescing to her verification needs. Besides, the date will end up being more fun because she'll trust you more and appreciate your helping her feel safe to meet you.
It's awfully disappointing losing an appointment because another provider didn't respond to a reference request in time. Hopefully, most of the providers you use as references are more reliable than that.
But what I'm getting from your OP, and what I've seen countless times on other threads on this board, is this distinct sense of entitlement. As in, "Well I did everything that *I* felt was necessary to get verified... What's wrong with these providers who don't think that's enough?" Well, like H+T said earlier (albeit in her own colorful way lol)-- Those verification services aren't going to find themselves alone in a room with you.
As you've learned, many providers use verification services in addition to whatever other screening methods they're comfortable with. Despite what the verification service may have led you to believe when you paid for your account, signing up with one is NOT a guarantee that you won't have to go through additional screening at the discretion of the provider you want to meet. Every single one of us has our own methods of verifying clients, there is no Standardized Verification Process.
So being upset that providers aren't screening you the way that YOU feel like you should be screened is a little silly. You are not entitled to an appointment just because you're a member of a verification service or whitelisted on TER. A provider has every right to screen you to the extent that she feels is necessary, just as you have every right to walk away from a provider whose methods you don't like. If you feel like you're waiting money on your verification service, you should probably cancel your membership. But I doubt very much that ranting on the TER message board is going to inspire any providers to change their minds about how they screen clients lol.
For the most part I agree with you. I don't really have a problem if the provider I want to see feels the need to contact my okays on P411. But I draw the line with employment info. I joined P411 in part so I wouldn't have to keep giving out that info over and over again. As you said, I have every right to walk away from a provider whose screening methods I don't like, and I will.
For me, employment info is a last resort for when a client doesn't have P411, references, or any other way for me to screen them.
Though I'm sure there are providers out there who disagree and may also want your blood type, last four digits of your SSN, and mother's maiden name while you're at it lol. But hey-- her body, her rules!
Not being argumentative, really. But I get contacted by would-be clients who do not meet my screening requirements (and are aware of it) all the time..... and I do not understand why they want to waste their time this way, just as I do not understand why you are publicly airing your complaint.
If venting makes you feel better, or you truly don't get that some ladies will never feel comfortable with ANY screening service alone.... well, then, ok. Vent away. Goodness knows I do it frequently enough. :-P
The answer to your question, ""What good is a verification service if providers still ask for 2 or more references?" has been answered by others, but for me personally: P411 is just one layer of my requirement. I do not believe it to be a be-all-end-all and I absolutely will contact your Okays. (I do not consider TER to be a verification service and will only contact Whitelist references if the gentleman is also a P411 member. But that's just me.)
Why do I need to contact them? Because that is what makes me feel comfortable meeting you! It really is that simple.
To give you a few examples as to why, though: just in the last couple of weeks I had one gentleman who, out of FIVE Okays I contacted, only two replied that they'd meet with him again. The three who wouldn't see him again all had the same specific issue, and as it was not something that is a problem for me, I agreed to see him. For other ladies, though, this would be a deal-breaker. Another gentleman had Okays but after contacting them, one replied that she'd forgotten she'd given him an Okay and would no longer recommend him. A third person had tons of Okays but told me which specific ladies to contact as those particular women would "remember" him. However, he gave me those names after his initial contact and by then I'd already reached out to more recent Okays... none of which had pleasant things to say about him.
Sure, you have none of the issues as those gentlemen, are completely safe & trustworthy, yadda yadda yadda.... but how does a lady really know that??
Yes, it sucks when there's someone you really want to meet and through no fault of your own, you are unable to just because your references didn't respond promptly, if at all.
Getting irritated that the lady has screening requirements you cannot/won't meet, however, is just silly IMO. You've decided what's comfortable for you, she has laid out what she needs to feel comfy too and unfortunately there is no middle ground. Sigh and move on.
Some believe that it "never hurts to ask" because she might make an exception and that's up to you, of course. But don't be surprised if she doesn't reply. If she does respond, only to confirm that you don't meet her requirements and she won't make an exception... let it go. Don't hound the lady. Don't whine, plead, or beg. Give her what she needs or move on. There ARE ladies who will meet you and rock your world. Just keep looking.
Just like baseball, there's no crying in hobbying! LOL! (Well, ok, there is but I really wish it weren't so!)
xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoo
-- Modified on 9/6/2015 11:33:06 AM
What I do care about is how many hoops she wants me to jump through to accomplish her screening. As long as she doesn't expect to do all the work for her to feel comfortable enough to take my money, I really don't care who she contacts in her process.
I work hard to attract business and to get my clients to trust me enough to fork over their hard earned money. I refuse to "apply" to spend my money, or to be asked to go well out of my way to prove I am "worthy" of seeing some woman. I don't mind supplying all the basic information she requires and if she needs another piece of info to finish her process and asks me nicely to provide it to her, I don't really mind that either, but I am NOT going to go round and round with a woman, jumping through hoop after hoop just for the privilege of giving her several hundred bucks for the pleasure of her company for an hour or so.
I am quite confident that ALL of my okays will check out, and if a woman still doesn't feel comfortable after her research she is under no obligation to see me, Quite frankly if more than a day or so has gone by since my original contact, I might barely remember who she is, much less be upset that she "rejected" me. That's the beauty of this hobby, it's just so easy to "move on" to the next woman. Or for the ladies to move on to the next client if you don't feel good about the guy wanting to see you.
I agree with you about constantly whining about how "hard" it is to get screened. I don't find it hard at all, and on the rare occasion it starts to get difficult, I simply move on to the next one.
OK, perhaps I am being a bit dramatic because I am pissy that I am at the office working on Sunday (little 10 minute break to take a peek here.) However, the reviews, the photos, the P411 OKs, the WLs, they are all to be taken with a grain of salt. Why women would give out an "OK" if they really did not feel the guy was worthy, I have no clue, but then again, why would a guy write a raving review about a gorgeous model type who is everything but....yeah, yeah, we all have different tastes yada, yada, yada but for crying out loud, I have had some experiences which truly had me questioning how I perceive reality and I am neither that demanding nor THAT nuts!
To the OP, think about it, from the perspective of a woman who is trying to protect herself from an uncomfortable situation or worse. Let's say that the guy is a complete dick and knows it, he will behave like a saint every once in a while, ask for an OK, get it and, at least on the surface, it all looks good. He has a certain number of OKs that check out but the ladies would not have a clue of the much larger amount of times that he behaved like a total douchebag.
I hate giving out my real information, it is reckless, but I completely realize why ladies ask for it, I can't blame them. At the end of the day, nobody is forcing us to participate in this little endeavor.
I have a review on here by someone I never even met, and he's been whitelisted by lots of people. Not sure how he got so many, not sure if he got women to whitelist him in exchange for a good review or what, but we never met and I was unable to get the review removed.
Somehow a man listing off all the hookers he has seen doesn't seem like a great marker for morality. It doesn't tell me much at all. I don't know those women, and we don't offer similar services. If anything, it ensures I am going to be treated like all the other hookers which isn't appealing to me surprisingly enough. I don't have tons of reviews because of how super exclusive I am. Maybe I want the man to be a bit choosy and exclusive as well at least the appearance of that? I don't know. The idea that some are all indirectly all fucking each other is maybe a reality to deal with but maybe not something to play up and enhance. That is for me, anyway. I know what I do and what escorts do and even those advertising as submissive are quite different. Just adding my two cents.
Besides, just who's moral compass do you plan on using? You are my your own admission a "Submissive masochist" I am by my own admission a "whoremongering pig" who has been with literally thousands of women.
Let's make a deal, you climb down off your moral high horse, and I won't make you look stupid for ever going down this road in the first place, deal?
Exactly. It isn't a marker at all. Thats what i said. Maybe you should reread and work on you reading comprehension before blindly attacking people to look like a big guy on a message board.
Also, it would be nice if the guy had enough morality to not kill me, so maybe a little morality might be nice.
Just ignore that catfish.
He tries to pick fights with everyone then does a 180 and wants to be their best friend.
He's really just a lot of hot air and I'm thinking we all should pitch in so he can actually see an escort and relax a little bit. 
xx
Yea. I wasn't planning on more of a "conversation" with it.
maybe you have learned the lesson of how to "quit digging" when you find yourself in a hole?
I am afraid that is a lesson that LWAM will never learn, but it is flattering to have yet another stalker, they say you haven't truly "made it" on the internet until you have accumulated at least a few stalkers along the way.
GaG, you're earning that freebie with me, lol ; )
I am afraid that is a lesson that LWAM will never learn, but it is flattering to have yet another stalker, they say you haven't truly "made it" on the internet until you have accumulated at least a few stalkers along the way.
Now before it takes a life of it's own..GaG, just fucking do her now and end this shit.
Cute that someone who has said he won't screen how you want and you crack this joke..
No need for another rude pm. I just delete them.
Edit: I'm still confused why you're so angry over a post that I wrote that had nothing to do with you directly. Someone stated a way that they do things and you told them no. That thread turned in to a clusterfuck of who screens right and who screens wrong. I said it reminded me of when a guy posts an ISO and people reply to it trying to change their mind in what they are looking for.
It had *nothing* to do with you, but you flipped out over it. I even explained that it had nothing to do with you and you still flipped out. But, hey.. Whatever works for you.
-- Modified on 9/7/2015 12:10:57 AM
and it's NOT LWAM, that's for sure.
Mad much??? Whaaaaaa! Just stick to seeing anybody and everybody and let me and GaG have our fun. No one asked for your 2 cents on this one. Neither of us mentioned you. His freebie with me doesn't involve you.
We know whatever works for you is, well, anything...
No need for another rude pm. I just delete them.
Edit: I'm still confused why you're so angry over a post that I wrote that had nothing to do with you directly. Someone stated a way that they do things and you told them no. That thread turned in to a clusterfuck of who screens right and who screens wrong. I said it reminded me of when a guy posts an ISO and people reply to it trying to change their mind in what they are looking for.
It had *nothing* to do with you, but you flipped out over it. I even explained that it had nothing to do with you and you still flipped out. But, hey.. Whatever works for you.
-- Modified on 9/7/2015 12:10:57 AM
I never had any doubt.
Steph xoxo
she does seem to have a rather unfulfilled life, why else would she be chasing us around the board?
maybe a video of us having fun would brighten up her life?
"Somehow a man listing off all the hookers he has seen doesn't seem like a great marker for morality."
Your words, not mine. Maybe you should choose your words more carefully rather than criticize me for taking your words at face value?
I find it laughable when either a hooker or a john starts talking about the number of whores/tricks a person sees and starts judging them by their "volume" It's like being a "picky" hooker makes you morally superior to some slut fucking five guys a day. Or that guy who only sees one hooker a month has higher moral standard than a guy like me who might see 20 different women in a typical month. Give me a fucking break.
It doesn't have to do with hookers and Johns. In fact, I can say I've met people who would "never associate with a prostitute," yet they walk about their day cutting others down and beating their wife and kids. No joke I've seen this before in regular life encounters. Even have had to report child abuse against someone in real life who always bragged about how holy they were bc they didn't agree with this lifestyle. I would consider a serial cheater who is a gentle person moral before a guy who purposefully seeks people out to hurt them just to feel good about himself.
A high number of References and reviews can give off the signal that he doesn't have a high chance of returning enough for regular income. But some may. Some ladies really are looking for a handful of reliable men who don't bring potential wear and tear, be it time & effort for low chance of retaining that business, or someone who may have a lot of exposure in the industry - or a guy with bad energy and negative attitude.
I think the reference to morality fit well, though I don't think a higher sex drive and desire for variety is any worse or better than someone who just wants an emotional and physical connection with one or two. More mimicking a hot sexy love affair. You asking based on who's standard does too. Each of us have a moral inner compass that may have nothing to do with what the typical widespread views on P4P and traditional marriage are.
For me personally - my code is see who you want - as long as you pay me, research a bit so you aren't expecting different than what I advertise, respect boundaries, and treat me like a princess. Lol
So I thought you'd like to know all of that LOL.
-- Modified on 9/6/2015 1:37:20 PM
I would never expect any group of people to agree on most things but I do find it astounding how we judge each other here, I can't quite get a grasp on it, somebody always has to be riding a higher horse than the others. I laughed last night when I read one guy trying to "insult" another guy because the other guy allegedly likes dinner dates and/or overnights. WTF, trying to enjoy a woman's company in more than one setting is really something to be looked down upon? Really, is it a sign that a person does not have social skills, friends or family? Anyway, that is just a recent of example of many on both sides.
Replying because your post above reminded of one of those "aha" moments I had while reading this site. The first few months, I would ask for an OK after every single session, I thought that the idea of recording the people I have been with would be fun, sort of like a little diary. The aha moment was realizing that there are ladies who don't want to see too many OKs. The end result is that I don't ask for OKs all the time anymore, I just space them out so that I always have something "recent." I think it is funny I saw the need to do that, kind of silly.
-- Modified on 9/6/2015 8:20:05 PM
A provider will look at my 411 and not ask me for references. Maybe they contact an OK directly or not - I'll never know I suppose.
What I do know is sometimes they look at my profile and sometimes they don't, or at least I don't get notice that they do. And I've never been turned down and I've never had to provide a reference since joining. Maybe it's just me, or maybe it's just the women I contact, but I didn't think there was that much 'enhanced screening' going on.
I never thought much about it but now you have me wondering if the op's experience is more common, of if mine is pretty garden variety?
-- Modified on 9/6/2015 1:47:31 PM
What I do know is sometimes they look at my profile and sometimes they don't, or at least I don't get notice that they do. And I've never been turned down and I've never had to provide a reference since joining. Maybe it's just me, or maybe it's just the women I contact, but I didn't think there was that much 'enhanced screening' going on.
I never thought much about it but now you have me wondering if the op's experience is more common, of if mine is pretty garden variety?
-- Modified on 9/6/2015 1:47:31 PM
-- Modified on 9/6/2015 12:26:25 PM
It has nothing to do with review control for me. It's about my comfort and safety. If you like boning chicks that will see anybody based on the fact they think P411 entitles them to any vagina on the planet, go for it. I have no more control over review than anyone else just because I know your name. Why would I commit career suicide because one guy maybe didn't like me?!
Don't they turn the wifi in the rest home off soon?
What I do know is sometimes they look at my profile and sometimes they don't, or at least I don't get notice that they do. And I've never been turned down and I've never had to provide a reference since joining. Maybe it's just me, or maybe it's just the women I contact, but I didn't think there was that much 'enhanced screening' going on.
I never thought much about it but now you have me wondering if the op's experience is more common, of if mine is pretty garden variety?
-- Modified on 9/6/2015 1:47:31 PM
Probably garden variety. There is a small vocal minority of girls who want 3 pints of blood and personal info to see somebody. No doubt that in most cases it's really a "review control" system on their part.
-- Modified on 9/6/2015 12:26:25 PM
they get an extra hour 
Don't they turn the wifi in the rest home soon?
what you wanted but didn't receive in your one and only review posted.
I do read reviews before accepting an appointment. If I feel it's not a good match for me, I turn down the appointment
"She didn't screen me! Should I be worried?"
work on legalizing and destigmatizing sex work. Then, when it becomes more mainstream, seeing a provider will become less of a process.
Also TER is frequented by bottom feeders these days. I'm not surprised that a whitelist means shit.
Hi There
If a client wants to see you they should do as they are requested.
Alley
I've never signed up on any verification site. I just call or text a provider and wait for her to respond. If she doesn't I call another provider. My ATF never asked me for a verification or a reference. And as far as references, there's no way I would ask my ATF for a reference to see another provider. Plenty of providers out there that don't ask for references or verification.
She must be very exclusive.
I mean, how else are you going to find chicks who will let you do BBFSCIP on the cheap AND sit back while you brag about it on the internet...all for a gallon of 2%.