TER General Board

To Which I Reply...
FearlessLeader 3282 reads
posted

...that I'm sorry you were offended by my opinion. I believe you misinterpret what I have to say (re-reading is suggested). That said, what was written is MY opinion. It is not likely to change absent a rather compelling argument.
  The attitude I have adopted towards civilian women is one of indifference. After years of being a crying towel, support mechanism and "safe" escort, I decided to opt out of these roles.
When civilian women start their "Where-have-all-the-good-men-gone" lament, I laugh. Look all around you, I say. I'm reminded of the line from the Annette Bening-Michael Douglas movie "The American President" which goes, "What's not to like. The man is handsome, the leader of the free world and an above-average dancer. Could it be our standards are a bit too high?"
  I do not opine that a women who waits for whatever kind of man she wishes is a "loser." I believe that anyone (man or woman) who is unwilling to broaden their horizons to include those who may be obese and/or near-sighted and/or bald and/or have other physical flaws, has no right to complain when they end up alone.
  I did not invent the double standard that allows men to be portly but demands that women be svelte, yet have ample breasts. Nor, did I devise the standards by which we deem men "handsome;" women "beautiful;" and, people "smart." However, in the words of Jimmy Durante, "Dese are da conditions dat prevail."
  Insofar as my personal preferences are concerned; yes, I enjoy the company of a woman who is beautiful AND intelligent. I am relatively successful in business. Having already paid off one woman via divorce, I have no urge to do so again. If a beautiful, intelligent, young woman is willing to accompany me to a number (some or all) of the professional and social functions which I attend; I am willing to give her whatever financial assistance in whatever manner we agree upon. Whatever else we do in our time together, that is a matter of personal choice and privacy. I do not write "reviews." My father taught me that a gentleman never kisses and tells.
  IW, if you wish not to date men who have physical flaws, that is your prerogative. I wish you much luck and happiness in your social endeavors. However, should it turn out you are sitting in your darkened home on Saturday night, trying to figure out why you're alone...

AnyOneNormalAnymore5652 reads

Everyone once in a while I go to the personals sites (for all races) and I continue to be amazed in the number of people using them. One thing that comes out in the ads are females not looking for players or Married Men. It seems like 99% of these women are looking for long term relationships I.E marriage. Have things gotton that bad the folks have to use the internet to get a relationship ?

Not sure if the internet escort revolution is related. I have noticed that sites like this are getting more popular. Also it seems more and more women are becoming providers everyday.

I know that services of escorts are used by Married men alot. What about single men ? It is correct for me to conclude that more and more single men are using escorts these days, thus explaining why women can't men interested in a long term relationship ?

Is it getting to the point where part of the discretionary spending of men will be for escorts ?

In order, 1-4:
Not sure I understand your second sentence, and some of your sentences have words missing.
1) The Personals and now the Internet sites, have been around for ages, and they have mostly been around for the purpose of a serious goal - long term relationships leading to a marriage.
It makes me very sad knowing so many people (now to include both men and women) who really want that and yet find the chances as slim that they ever will. And, as I've said, I've worked in two companies where the entire floor was single woman, 90% of them never married, and over 35. The dreams of people getting married, having a family and a home are almost gone. Even in my real estate newsletters, the number of homes being sold to single, YOUNG women is in the highest category, according to this one article sent to me. They interviewed a few, and their answers said that they finally realize that their first two dreams - marriage and family will not likely happen, so they are buying their homes now, since that's the dream they CAN have.

2)I do believe, IMO, that yes, the Industry is related. I 'meet' more and more women like myself, who enjoy this as a way of meeting interesting people, enjoying a nice evening, and having some intimacy, too. At this time (for me), it is hardly about the money, as it doesn't even cover living expenses; and, when I first got started, I had a full time job and it was a supplement, then.
It is having more of an appeal, I think, to the women out there for all those reasons. Those, who are NOT looking for marriage but do want more of a win-win situation than dating provides. I had a boss (my last job) who was 38, single, never married, and badly wanted The Dream. She and her parents paid for her to have the dating service that guaranteed she'd find either a boyfriend, or a spouse after 18 months. For $2600. When I left my job, she was on month 16 or 17 and was so much more depressed than ever before, having no one that she was interested in. All you have to do is work in the workplace and see all the people who feel and experience the same. My sister and I talk about it all the time, and we also talk about the 'desperation' so many people are showing in what they do to attain it.

3)There are single men in the hobby, sure. I'm sure they have reasons unique to being single, as well as some that parallel those of married men. I don't think the 'absence' of single men from the Civilian Dating Scene is causing less availability to Civilian women, no. Although, I wouldn't be surprised if we 'spoiled' them for going there! LOL

4)Yep. Some might chose to call it their Golf Fund.

-- Modified on 2/17/2004 1:58:36 PM

Prof33509 reads

Sedona:

re your #3; as a single guy, I'd say you are right in terms of the hobby spoiling us, in a way. The escorts I've been with have been, on average, *much* more comfortable with, and confident in their sexuality than most of the civilian women I've dated. In my case, I started in the hobby because of a rare, partially disabling athletic injury that took me from serious athlete, to near-couch potato. I couldn't deal with the resulting functional and cosmetic changes, and didn't want, as it were, to "expose" myself to civilian women anymore.

The women in the hobby that I've met have been absolutely wonderful for me physically and psychologically, and meeting them has been one of the only good things resulting from my injury; I do wonder though, that when I regain the confidence to return to civilian dating, whether I will find myself making invidious distinctions between providers and civilian women.

AnyOneNormalAnymore3200 reads

I have noticed that some ads are staying around for a very long time. Must be pretty frustating for females who want LTR's. It is amazing how your friend spent $2600 compared to how fast a provider can get $2600.

Looks like escorts are about getting right to the point and both the client and the provider are happy.

What cracks me up the most is how they say they want "sex" or put in some very provactive pictures, but end up being a major waste of time. Like they say "Time is money".

There is another trend that I have discovered "Married Women" looking to become players. Of course that brings up a whole set of issues and risks that are very dangerous if the spouse finds out.

Count me as one of the single guys in this hobby

My reason for going this route is simple...I'm of an age where any REAL dating I might do with a "civilian" will quickly lead to the dreaded "Where is this relationship going?" question and just coming off a three year time with a woman who I had every expectation of marrying but instead ended badly with my losing far more money than I would ever have spent on a provider

I have never cheated on any SO in my life and I have no desire to lead some woman on with what my intentions might be...soooo if I want to have sex and companionship with a lady for now this is my only choice

FearlessLeader3506 reads

However, for me, the reasons are very simple:
1. IMHO, the only reason to get married these days is to have children. My "kids" are now 28 & 31. I love my sons (and my grandchildren) dearly, but please, no more kids.

2. Been married, then divorced. My father once told me that a smart man learns from his mistakes.

3. My relationship with my ATF is much more honest. Upon my divorce (1975), I gave up one house, two cars and over half the net worth of my business; plus alimony and child support.  My (ex) wife allegedly married me for love. In the end, it was all about the cash. With my ATF, the expectations are frank and plain. My ATF is in no position to hire a lawyer to clean me out, again.

4. My relationship with my ATF is low maintenance. I'm not gonna be browbeat because I missed our "eighteen month anniversary" or some other equally important milestone. If I don't call for a couple of weeks, I won't get a third degree interrogation. The extent of my obligation is to make an appointment and make sure the donation is in the proper place and amount. If we're going out on the town or a social function, she dresses very well and is drop-dead gorgeous.

5. The most important reason: SEX! The sex I have with my ATF is unrestrained, uninhibited and absolutely the best I've ever had; bar none. We are comfortable enough with each other to try almost anything and if one of us, for whatever reason, is uncomfortable (it happened once), we can tell the other with no hurt feelings.

  In my experience, "civilian" women try play all kinds of games. They try to be shy, coy and play hard-to-get. I don't mind putting forth the effort (i.e. candy, flowers, nice restaurant, romantic B&B, etc). Truth is, I enjoy the chase.
  However, most civilian women don't want the "nice" guy. I'm generally considered the "nice" guy. I act like a gentleman and I treat women with respect. I have a good deal of disposable income. But, I'm fat (Yes, I know I'm fat and I don't give a damn). None of these civilians want to get past that prejudice. But, they want me as a "friend." I got tired of these "friends" calling me up, crying on my shoulder (or telephone) about the handsome hunk who's broke and has no ambition and/or just pissed all over their feelings and/or just dumped them in the middle of their date.
  IMHO, these civilian women are the losers because they can't get past their prejudice against fat guys. I don't care about them or their unhappiness. I allowed them to make me unhappy for years. In the end, they brought their unhappiness upon themselves in their quest for a handsome knight in shining armor at the wheel of a Ferrari. Truth is, there aren't enough Fabios, Mel Gibsons or fill-in-the-blanks to go around.
  I have replaced these "civilian" women with an absolutely gorgeous woman who, for a consideration, is willing to accompany me to a variety of social events; and, from time-to-time, willing to keep me warm through the night in a manner that most civilian women would be unable or unwilling.
  My ATF is in her early 30s and insists on going to the gym every morning. When the time comes that she wants to retire, I'm hoping she'll be willing to keep on at least one client. If not, we will say our goodbyes. I'll find another young, beautiful woman to take her place.
  Who do you think is more content; me or the "civilian" woman who sitting in her house, alone??
 



 I agree totally with you. I like providers because they make me feel special. I have found that providers are more caring and more understanding than civilian women.  

 Single Civilian women, from my experiences, are very very quick to judge. At first glance, they can tell if you're worthy of their time. If your hair is slightly out of place, or if your shoe doesn't match your skin complexion, you'll be dumped mercilesslly. They are very cruel, superficial, unforgiving, with a dark heart. Don't believe that if you shower them with gifts that they'll suddenly care for you. I'm a nice guy and treat all the ladies with respect and would like a serious relationship, but these days women do prefer bad boys and I'll never become one.

 Don't get me wrong, There are some nice single civilian women, but they are very very hard to find. They don't stay single for very long. That's probably why the "mail order bride" industry is thriving so much.

 As a guy, I do have the option to pay for nice companionship instead of sitting at home feeling lonely and unloved. I choose to excercise that option.

czz22113720 reads

Couldn't have said it better.  Being divorced and middle aged I visit providers for the same reason.  Been married for 13 years and have 3 adults kids now 26,24 & 22. After providing child care, paying drs visits, losing a house, etc, etc, I'm coming out cheaper visiting providers than what my ex cost me.  Plus after my romp I just leave and don't have any worries and don't have to listen to anything.  Plus don't have the stress the dating scene causes me.  And I'm not fat, or bald, just older and can't attract the women I find appealing.  And the fantastic looking 50 year olds don't want me.  Since they think they look so hot they're looking for the 30-35 year old guy to inflate their egos.  The only drawback is it's a secret I can't tell.  My family and friends (except one) just think I'm sad and lonely.  If they only knew what I do and have done to me 3-4 times a month!  I know it's better than they get at home.

WaylonSmithers1794 reads

You mentioned that civilian women have a prejudice against guys like yourself who are fat.  

However, you did make it a point to tell us that she goes to the gym every morning.  Why ?  Perhaps, so that she can keep from getting, well, you know, fat ??

Just curious....

FearlessLeader4933 reads

a) I mentioned that my ATF goes to the gym each morning because she does, no other ulterior motive;
 
  b) I guess she goes to the gym each morning because 1) she is aware that her livelihood depends on her appearance and 2) maybe she enjoys how she feels after a workout.

  In fairness to her, I must say also that my ATF is well-read and extremely intelligent. Yes, one of the reasons that I started seeing the woman is the fact that she is visually stunning. Perhaps, it is a revenge thing ("Hey, look what i have since you turned me down").
  After all, living well IS the best revenge!!

"IMHO, these civilian women are the losers because they can't get past their prejudice against fat guys."

That statement totally rubbed me the wrong way, especially since you later went on to say "I'll find another young, beautiful woman to take her place." Oh puhleeze. Maybe the reason civilian women don't want to date you is because of the *seemingly* shitty attitude you seem to have towards them. I don't know you, so I cannot fairly judge what your attitude truly is.  What I am reading from your past is that's it's perfectly acceptable for YOU to want an attractive, fit woman. When a woman wants the same thing, she's automatically deemed a loser.

And you know, you're right. I won't date a fat guy in my personal life. Why should I? I workout daily, watch what I eat religiously, stay out of the sun, and avoid cigarettes and alcohol. Most importantly, I keep in shape to maintain a healthy emotional and psychological health not to mention the physical benefits of being at a healthy weight. So basically I should bust my ass to look good so I can date a fat old man my father's age? Not. Does that make me a loser? Not.


-- Modified on 2/18/2004 8:15:40 AM

FearlessLeader3283 reads

...that I'm sorry you were offended by my opinion. I believe you misinterpret what I have to say (re-reading is suggested). That said, what was written is MY opinion. It is not likely to change absent a rather compelling argument.
  The attitude I have adopted towards civilian women is one of indifference. After years of being a crying towel, support mechanism and "safe" escort, I decided to opt out of these roles.
When civilian women start their "Where-have-all-the-good-men-gone" lament, I laugh. Look all around you, I say. I'm reminded of the line from the Annette Bening-Michael Douglas movie "The American President" which goes, "What's not to like. The man is handsome, the leader of the free world and an above-average dancer. Could it be our standards are a bit too high?"
  I do not opine that a women who waits for whatever kind of man she wishes is a "loser." I believe that anyone (man or woman) who is unwilling to broaden their horizons to include those who may be obese and/or near-sighted and/or bald and/or have other physical flaws, has no right to complain when they end up alone.
  I did not invent the double standard that allows men to be portly but demands that women be svelte, yet have ample breasts. Nor, did I devise the standards by which we deem men "handsome;" women "beautiful;" and, people "smart." However, in the words of Jimmy Durante, "Dese are da conditions dat prevail."
  Insofar as my personal preferences are concerned; yes, I enjoy the company of a woman who is beautiful AND intelligent. I am relatively successful in business. Having already paid off one woman via divorce, I have no urge to do so again. If a beautiful, intelligent, young woman is willing to accompany me to a number (some or all) of the professional and social functions which I attend; I am willing to give her whatever financial assistance in whatever manner we agree upon. Whatever else we do in our time together, that is a matter of personal choice and privacy. I do not write "reviews." My father taught me that a gentleman never kisses and tells.
  IW, if you wish not to date men who have physical flaws, that is your prerogative. I wish you much luck and happiness in your social endeavors. However, should it turn out you are sitting in your darkened home on Saturday night, trying to figure out why you're alone...

I get it now. Thanks:-) By the way, you'll never catch me home on a Saturday night wondering why I'm single. I figured that out long ago.

FearlessLeader5833 reads

...or someone new. If nothing else, I'd like to hear your side. You never know, you may make that compelling argument...

czz22115221 reads

father's age if he was rich and/or powerful or a public figure!

My reasons are simple.  I don't want kids, I don't want to have two women in my life who I am romantically linked to.  AND, I just love to party with beautiful women and like newness.

After divorce I tried a dating service (5grand) which flopped.  The civilians were game players and were more concerned about your bank account then you.  Trying providers after reading TER you know what your getting and are spoiled.  I still put feelers out to civilians but still no bites.  Perhaps when the civilians grow up I might try again.  Until then I'll stick with my ATF.

I have to second the sediments on being a large guy.  I myself am one, and that just does not bode well for finding the type of women I like.  Call it hypocritical, sure, but I know what I like and that is not going to change.  I like petite women and have yet to find any "civilian" women that would love me for who I am instead of what I look like.
I have been a member of a fairly popular on line site for about a year now.  I have met no none from that site.  I keep sending out email after email, nothing and I'm always sure to mention the weight.  Now am I stupid for being an honest guy?  I don't think so better they know up front so I don't get shocked looks when they open the door, been there done that.  Up till just recently (the discovery of the hobby) I was one of the simple fools that thought happiness could be found if only I could find the right woman.
I woke up, now I can have the women I like and don't have to deal with the other aspects of the long term deal.  I went through the whole D thing a while back.  Now mine was very tame to a lot of Ds these days, but suffered through some major depression as a result.  I have lived through that and the "Dream" and well I think I'm living the "Dream" now with much more opportunity and variety.  I really work too much and don't have time to play any games while dating and such.  If one comes along, maybe I'll take notice less so now than before.  For now, I'll go, get what I want, and give them what they want and leave.
I'm upfront with a provider about my weight, if she has issues, I'm sure others won't and my money spends the same where ever.
I have to give props to those other comments on this question, I feel the same way as many of them do.
I've wasted to much time and tears on the "dream" somethings are just not meant to be the way we think they should or are conditioned to think...that is life, and now I'm out living again and enjoying every minute of it....my new hobby and golf.......

I hope you walk when you play the g-thing!  A great way to get exercise...

Yea I walk to the ball and back to the cart.....*LOL*

As a large married guy that is very well known in the local community it would be impossible on several fronts to have a girlfriend. The risks of being exposed or extorted are very big, not just for the marriage, but business as well. I have no intention of leaving my wife and family. I just want to have my needs satisfied on occasion. I do mostly hobby out of town, but havemet several ladies here in Atlanta and had a grand ole time.

Fearless pretty much nailed it for me, too.  I'm divorced, and after years of online dating, have grown very tired of hearing "no chemistry" whatever that means.

When I sought out a provider late last year, I did a lot of research to find one I thought might meet my needs.  In my contact e-mail to her, I wrote that I don't much enjoy sex for its own sake, and that I need to find someone with whom I can share a deeper connection.  I want someone I can admire for her intellect and talents on all levels, someone who will meet me as an equal.  I've been very fortunate in that regard, having found those things in my favorite lady.

Coming off years of rejection and frustration, imagine how it felt to finally have a beautiful woman curl up naked in my arms, run her fingers through the hair on my back and say, "You are sooooo sexy!"

It would be safe to say that my favorite lady has raised the bar for any civilian women who might suddenly be interested in me, now that I'm effectively off the market.  No more games.

Yoda

Many single guys hire escorts . But I don't think that has anything to do as of why women can't find men who are interested in long term relationship .

I know quite a few guys who are on some dating sites , they complain about the women that all they want and think about  is money and they are goldiggers . They meet the guy and ask for money to pay bills .Or ask the guy to take them on vacations

Of course the women complain that all the guys want and think about is sex . ;-)

So in conclusion looks like escorting is the way to go for the guy . At least with the escort he knows what he will get.

patriotsfan3052 reads

I'm not sure what the answer is or for that matter what the question is. My experience has been that After I leave the escort I feel stupid for paying $$$ for something that was available at home for free without the risks of disease, getting caught, lack of real intimacy etc. etc. etc.. I am considering not seeing escorts in the future but the lure of young beautiful woman seems to draw me back in. I helped a provider who was in a disastrous situation, money, gifts, emotional support, help in everyday situations beyond her abilities (she doesn't speak english and is in this country illegaly) yet she shows very little appreciation. I'm not looking for sex as much as conversation. I hate to classify anybody but what keeps coming to mind is the old saying "colder than a whore's heart". My fault for keep coming back for more but know in my heart that without my guidance she will flounder.Need to get over her,any suggestions...

Ah, another oportunity for TER members to bash civilian relationships.  This isn't what I think the original thread was about, but it always seems to go in this direction whenever civilian relationships are brought up.  Man, do we have a lot of unhappy couples out there!

Look, people...no duh that providers are more fun to be with in the sack than spouses/girlfriends/ whatever.  For the majority of providers, this is their means of living/putting themselves through school/giving them "financial independence"/ whatever.  Would someone do a better job in their workplace if they knew they had to really impress their bosses every time they turned in a report or if they knew they had the job regardless of their performance (within reason) for life?  Also, if you didn't have to see your wives/ whatever's for a few days/weeks/whatever in between each time you fucked, would you enjoy fucking your wife more, especially if you didn't have to talk about who was going to take out the trash, who was going to pickup the dogshit, and how you are going to pay the bills?  Oh, and don't forget about if you could change your wife anytime you wanted to by just picking up the phone and calling a different one, ooh boy, getting it on with wifey #10 tonight sure would be hot, huh?

It amazes me that people talk about these scenarios like they are comparing apples and apples.  

And I'm just getting started, people...now let's talk about Mr. Normal's issues.

Gee, I am shocked that 99% of women using personal ads are looking for long term relationships.  I mean, if you are a woman, and you just want to get laid, and you aren't too particular about who with, maybe you wouldn't need to put out an ad?  And maybe most adult women who are past the bar scene aren't interested in JUST getting laid in the first place?  For some reason, I don't look at this as a bad thing.

I have been dating people through the personals for almost fourteen years.  Personals didn't just happen recently.  However, depending on where you work (as Sedona mentioned) and many other factors, people nowadays are much less likely to
find people to date than in ages past.  The breakdown of social structure, more women working and being self-reliant, families being and option and not a necessity, and the broadening of workplace environments all contribute to it being hard to meet quaility eligible people.  Since 1988, I have worked in places that women make up a small percentage of both the employees and the customers.  So, there are few prospects there and few women there to introduce me to friends with.  In addition, I have no family in the area, and prefer to have a few close friends to many acquaintances, so I adapted and met women through the personals.  I have had great success with this.

I personally do not see the proliferation of Net dating sites and an increase in escort sites as being related, other than to show that there are a lot of lonely people out there.  The Net just makes it esy to do a personals site, and they are highly profitable.  As for the escort sites...
shhhh!!!! :P

I am a single man, and I meet providers because I am in between relationships.  Even if I had the money to blow (so to speak) on providers regularly, though, I would have no interest in doing so if I was with the right woman, and I have been with a few that I felt this way with (and things unfortunately did not work out "forever" with them).  I doubt that most "mature" single men would choose providers over being in a relationship, even if they had the money.

I have no idea how you concluded that as most women using Net personals look for LTR's, they can't get men interested in them.  Most men who use Net personals are looking for LTR's as well.  Additionally, there are more men than women in almost every personals organization out there, whether Net or not (at least until you get into the 50/up crowd).  In general, most women PERIOD are interested in LTR's, as most don't need a "quick fix" like most men do.  

Men's "discretionary funds" for excorts... bwahahahahahahaha.  Aside from the legality issue, uh, if most of the men on here weren't hiding their activity from their SO's, there would be a lot of providers out of work.  Don't count on this becoming accepted into general society anytime soon.

People on here are constantly talking about how bad civilian women are, both in terms of dating and in terms of their sexual performance.  All I can say, guys, is that you are meeting the wrong women.  I have dated a good number of women in the past fourteen years, and none of them have "played games" with me in a way that is unrelated to or worse than what men do to them in return.  Part of the reason for this is that I am choosy about my partners.  In addition, almost every one of them has rocked my world in bed, and several of them have done so better than any woman who I met for a couple of hours could, no matter how hot she was.  Love takes you to a higher place, but you ve to give that type of love to get it in return.

Some guys mention that they have been turned down because of their appearance.  Of course, no woman has EVER had that happen, right?  Seriously, though...I am no prize myself, but I don't go looking for "hotties" to date, either.  I stay in my range, and it works out.  If you are heavy, or older, or short, or whatever, you may have to look for someone who has similar physical attributes to be "accepted" physically.  If you don't like that, and you can change your physical state, then it is up to you.

The sad thing about all of this is that nowhere has anyone said the word LOVE.  I am not even going to bother getting into that...but it is funy to see so many people discussing sex do to the minutae and not even think that love is something that exists or has a place in "reality".  In my reality, if there isn't love, or the hope of love, what is the point?

Sad, sad, sad...I may be a romantic, but I somehow don't feel that I am the hopeless one.

devie2802 reads

I have stayed out of this conversation mainly because I wanted to avoid the LONG POST...
MrSelfDestruct,
thank you for taking the time, and for making so many insightful points.

Civilian vs. hobby, yes - keep it in perspective.  Why must one be "better" than the other?  They are completely different relationships, as they should be.  

It is unfortunate that society casts disparagement on this community.  There are many great points in all of the responses above as to the benefits of being able to participate as we do.
(Yet once again, I'll bite my tonge... poly ramblings are no more useful than monogomy praising... each to their own.)

Relationships and the way we handle them in our lives  is a much larger encompassing subject than this hobby specific discussion.

Re: internet dating
Been there, done that... had fun, made great friends, had great sex.  The ratio of men-to-women on the dating sites is nearly comical.  I have no perspective on the female dating on-line ratio of ISO LTR, as I was mainly on the swingers and 'alternative' dating sites.  The sheer # of M-to-F on-line tells me that more men are "in the market", at least publically.

A side note - I don't care to share the number of on-line dates which did not work out with me simply because the man was much more traditional, looking for LTR, etc...
and this is with using WAbiPoly as my screen name!
: P

Again, MSD - you are right on:
If I wanna' get laid tonight, I am NOT going on-line.  I will call a good friend, go out about town... just about anything OTHER than creating an on-line profile, and weeding through the hundreds of responses that I will get.

RE: dating sites and internet sites proliferating...
I doubt there is a relationship above and beyond, "all the lonely people, where do they all come from?", and,
it is just so very easy and acceptible to do all of this on-line versus NOT.

I did not use on-line sites as men were not interested in me - I used them as a form of 'target marketing', if you will.  I'm a bit of a freak (so I hear) and know there is a very specific breed of man who works for me in relationships.  A few e-mails is a MUCH easier way to find out key info than traditional dating.

As to the discretionary funds... perhaps all of this would be much more accepted if the SO was allowed to set her rate for her time and be paid accordingly... but I wouldn't hold my breath for this shift in dynamics to become common place.  ; )
Ugh!  Could any of us ever afford a LTR if this was standard practice?!?

Physical appearance issues, well covered.
Admit hypocracy and move beyond it, or at least move on with it...

Now,
to the big one, which I will be brief on...
lack of comments on love.
Aaaaaah love.
All you cynical nellies will have a lot to rethink when 'she/he' walks into your life...
The cost, expense, pain, etc etc etc etc, of our relationships (and/or avoidance thereof) is  not only about great sex.  

Love does make the world go round.  Love is the soil that our humanity grows in.  We suffer greatly for love, and have through the ages?  Why???
How can we not?
Love is a power on par with (*I* believe rivaling) death in our lives.

But now, ah... MSD - are you really so suprised to not hear much of this talk on TER?

D.

PS
(personal to MSD):
"things unfortunately did not work out "forever" with them"

As things did not work out with them, it is truely fortunate that it was not "forever", yes?

The internet personals thing I think is an outgrowth of a few things.  First, people are in front of their computers all day, so it's natural.  Second, people (especially women it seems) are just petrified of intimacy it seems.  Everyone wants to insist they're "just friends" or "friends with benefits".  The concept of a real relationship has so many social expectations latched onto it and is so rare these days that the idea of actually going on a date is just so scary to most people.  Plus, it allows people to network outside of their increasingly smaller social network.  There's also a comfort to that--if you date a friend (or friend of a friend), you're peppered with questions about the relationship at every function, and if you break up it gets so awkward.  If you meet a total stranger and go out with them it's just so much easier--your friends are just like,  "who was that chick?"

I'm single, not by choice.  Honestly I don't think anyone is single by choice, despite what they might say.  I recently threw my hat in the internet personals arena, but being as un-photogenic as I am I've gotten a pretty fiercely negative reaction to it.  You know, kinda like in the regular dating scene? LOL

I don't think meeting people over the internet all that different from meeting people anywhere else.  At least when they're online trolling for mates, they're honest about why they're there.  Not like when they're in a bar and claim to be there for "the atmosphere" or whatever.

Cynicalman2656 reads

or much else that is the usual fodder in those romance sites. I've toyed with them(dating sites) and mostly found a bunch of  overweight feminists with a lot of baggage and an attitude. Any Attractive women on those sites are reserving their dates for Mr. Moneybags but they say they are just looking for a "nice guy".
   I guess You would class me an not "normal" because instead of allowing myself to be led down the primrose path of traditional dating, courtship & marriage, only to be some day sliced and diced by the Family law courts. I'd sooner pay as I go to hot looking Ladies who REALLY are trying to seduce and please me into returning again soon.
 
  Oh! and yes The hobby IS where ALL my disposable income goes.

   Cm.

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