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With the stock market in free fall, and the hacking of sites right and left, does this maybe portend a reduction of rates overall
Market forces will take over here, there will be less demand (i.e. less johns) which of course means lower rates.
The hooker market, much like the stock market, has, or is about to, burst.
Did prices drop then? If not, why would they drop now? You may have noticed the Dow was up more than 600 points today. Will rates rise again? It's all so confusing.
If anyone would remember that far back it would be you, well you and a certain person who likes to shit into dead mouths of course. I think he goes back to 1904, doesn't he?
My dad wasn't even born then. As for Mr. Dead-Mouth-Shitter, he's so cranky he must have been born in '98. 1898. In fact, I think he was with T.R. at San Juan Hill.
He ain't no Spring Chicken either.
in your case I'll go along with chicken.
You're welcome
2015 = 28
It also brought in a lot of low end girls , 30 minute specials, 15 minute specials and other things that were unheard of prior to the recession.
-- Modified on 8/26/2015 2:12:27 PM
Just to clarify: after the crash did lot of previously $500/hr. girls drop their rate to $400? Or $350? And what about the gals who were already at $300-$400?
...regarding rates in '08 but the agency I used in '09 had reduced their hourly rate by $25. Their rates had been $300 for some of their providers and $325 for others. They went to $275 & $300. When ladies left the replacements were $275. Eventually all their providers were $275.
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-- Modified on 8/26/2015 5:54:41 PM
Prices for indies did not start to really creep up until the middle of 2014 in my area. Agency prices went up too. It's just a question of how sustainable these prices are. AAMP prices stayed consistent throughout. Only $200 in the Bay Area.
-- Modified on 8/26/2015 3:09:27 PM
Less new clients in any venture or market means falling prices unless supply goes down with it.
You think a lot of girls plan to leave the biz?
But this is just a part time gig for me. Less clients calling just means maybe now I'll have time to meet them all!
I can't speak for anyone else, but I feel pretty confident that I'll be just fine 
I guess the gals at risk are those that only have one source of income.
I'm glad you're not dependent on this for a living. I'm afraid the years of inflation for most here are going to be in for a rough ride. So many women raised rates, or increased minimums. I do recall that during the Great Recession that rates overall were about half of what seems to be the rates recently
I had too many clients and just had to raise my rates. I'm pretty sure we are recession proof 
And have a great web presence and possibly great reviews (I am not VIP). No need to panic and drop rates just to get the cheap bastards whp want the buffet style go around. You don't need that. Leave that to the ladies who will believe the crap they are fed.
I actually increased my rates after 2008 and did very well...still do, so carry on the way you are. You might even get a better class of men contacting you.
It's always nice to get such positive feedback from people who actually know what they're talking about lol. And congrats on having the stamina and good sense to make it through the last recession unscathed! Rock on, H+T.
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The laws of supply and demand are true for "markets" in general, not for any one individual. There is always anecdotal evidence that may differ with the market at large.
But there is little doubt that the market will, at sometime soon, have fewer buyers as the gals tell me most of their clients are married (i.e. typically a group of men who are MORE risk averse ) and less new buyers will come into the market as well as many who will leave who can't stomach the risk any longer as seen by the AM hacking.
Fewer buyers will lead many savvy business gals to lower rates in an attempt at keeping there overall monthly or yearly profit intact.
It's just smart business for most to adjust pricing in a changing market.
Those who stick their head in the sand, or those who try and deny the effects of the long established validity of the S & D model, are usually ones that get hurt the most.
1) The market crash means more mongers are poorer than they were.
2) The Big Leak has mongers fearing they'll be outed.
Result = Less Mongering = lower prices. It's just common sense. You don't have to like it. But denying it s just dumb.
The terminology being thrown around here is making me realize I'm in the wrong place. I'm not interested in people who use or think in crass terms such As "hookers" and "johns" and frankly the vulgarity of the reviews is just over the line of civility. Good luck with the "hookers" and the "johns" if that's the way you think of yourself I'm not interested in knowing you on any level.
2) The Big Leak has mongers fearing they'll be outed.
Result = Less Mongering = lower prices. It's just common sense. You don't have to like it. But denying it s just dumb.
...why is your handle Poundtrish. Seems a contradiction to me.
None of us plan on changing our behavior simply to suit you, so.....
Calling yourself a "sanitation engineer" doesn't make a person any less a janitor. Calling yourself a "provider" doesn't make you any less of a hooker. Most of the women here have learned to own it. and since we call you ladies hookers, it would be rather hypocritical for us to get upset about being called johns or tricks.
Ubersensitive people don't tend to have much fun here, been nice knowing you, toodles
I LOVE hookers, whatever you call them. And I don't mind being a John or a Trick. So, yeah, you're probably right. If mere words bother you that much, well, don't let the door hit you in the ass, yadda, yadda, yadda...
Not only that, she seems to be in flat mode because my post didn't use either word.
-- Modified on 8/27/2015 2:08:18 PM
I think she is in dumb mode
I am not going to deny it for SOME tricks and for some hookers.
In my experience I have not in this mess nor the 2008/9 shit show felt the impact. I raised my rates and was steady throughout. I am not an isolated incident. Many hookers did and do very well despite the push to lower rates.
Vice is possibly the one facet that in some sectors, holds it's value. Do you see liquor store slashing prices of good booze? Did Vegas shut down because nobody was gambling
...For the completely unsolicited business advice from a complete stranger who knows virtually nothing about me or my situation and has (assumedly) never worked as an escort, himself.
Just the kind of guy I want telling me how to run my business lol
Or if lie is too strong, what do you misstate it so inaccurately?
Where did I give YOU or ANY hooker on this board advice about how to run your business?
Guess what honey, you CANT because I DIDNT.
The OP asked about how current conditions can affect pricing and I gave him an answer. Its common sense for ANYONE who knows ANYTHING about free markets and how they operate that the pricing pressure is downward due to recent events.
What about this topic makes hookers unable to read these posts accurately?
What I should have thanked you for was the unsolicited lesson on the free market... from a complete stranger who knows virtually nothing about me or my situation and has (assumedly) never worked as an escort, himself.
Fixed.
It was and has always been there. Just because some hackers did some stuff it hasn't changed the risk component.
I have noticed that many women are offering specials over the past few months. Maybe that will continue and accelerate now that so many guys seem to be afraid of getting caught.
It certainly hasn't gotten higher on the hooker side of the equation, it's the johns that are shitting their pants right now. So I agree if the supply/demand dynamic is going to change, it's going to be more hookers chasing less johns putting "downward" pressure on pricing, not upward.
which really has nothing to do with the world of hookers and johns. So let's not mix apples and oranges just because some guys are now more afraid about the security of their information. A hack (or illegal release of info by a disgruntled insider, as is suspected) of a big, public site is, at best, peripheral to sites like this or P411.
Anyway, as you know, I don't have to worry if my personal info is leaked.
Also, the recent market melt down is more likely to affect guys' spending habits and gals' rates than recent leak.
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-- Modified on 8/26/2015 6:22:33 PM
What I should have said is that now that this whole business SEEMS riskier to the new and uninitiated, I don't plan on lowering my rates.
My concern is that if I were to lower my rates to attract more clients, I'll probably be attracting more nervous "Do-you-really-have-to-screen-me-can't-you-just-google-me" type of clients too. No thanks! I'd rather see fewer clients at my regular rate than more clients at a lower rate.
Personal choice. I'm sure there are plenty of providers who disagree.
I think just as rates and minimums crept up is what we may see in reverse.
The key will be how many guys really feel insecure about this, and how long any women can hold onto rates and still pay their bills.
It's not the top and bottom of the market that will get pinched, it's the middle range as it was post-2009. The typical 300 gals increased to 4-500 in the past few years. I won't be the least bit surprised to see that go back to the 300 level a year from now. And the 2 hour minimums will also disappear.
I'm sure you won't be affected at all however. You've probably got quite a nice stash put away for the downturn.
slashed my rates in half*!
*by slashed my rates in half I mean increased my minimum date in reality. Oops, hooker math, I fail at it
I did very well during the 2008 dip and beyond so I see no reason to mess with what works.
Dropping rates, as I have read from other hookers, just invites a certain type of trick that is not worth the trouble.
A couple of things that really do not seem to dip too far down is vice...booze, sex and drugs...people can always find the funds to do those things...even in a depression.
China does what China does and the fear factor over here went off the charts...Dow drops and everyone panics.
So ladies, don't play into the fear and stay the way you are.
To give blanket advice like that is absurd. Each case/girl needs to be evaluated/evaluate separately. Some don't "need" ANY of the money they get from hooking. Some need every dollar to make it monthly.
The stock market is barely a factor here at all, unless there is much more significant downside.
The AM story is HUGE for ANYONE paying attention, and trust me, the johns are paying attention.
Can't get around supply and demand HT, and your "one size fits all advice" can be VERY detrimental to many gals here.
1. Cut your rates
2. Stop screening
3. Have no boundaries
4. Accept that you are inferior trash.
No one takes you seriously, JD.
Ive watched you here for years... its obvious to anyone paying attention that you don't have a social circle or support network or really anything to keep you busy. You just keep to the grind here, talking like you run this game.
Its fine to be addicted to TER (many of us are), but to be a troll about it, 100% of all the time, like nonstop?
When was the last time you even tasted a pussy?
"Jack" hasn't been here for "years" the first post by "Jack Dunphy" was in 2014. So how could you have been watching him here for years???
I'll bet the answer is "yes," not that the high-handed HomelyHen would know.
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That's the only way he could have been following him for "years"
Still enough to know that he's worth "ignoring" here. LOL.
Where did I tell anyone to cut rates?
When Have I EVER espoused to stop screening? (Just yesterday I told a girl her it is MY best interest AND hers for her to screen.)
Where did I ever tell ANYONE here to have no boundaries?
Lets see who the real troll is, Answer my above questions and lets see where that debate goes.
Why did you feel the need to lie about my positions?
You don't see how that destroys your asinine point(s)
I apologize. I guess I confused JD with GG and MACEO... Just a bunch of trolls with bad advice who think they know better than the ladies how to run their own business.
Really, any man who's ever giving unsolicited advice on this business is a huge troll and a red flag. That's the ultimate truth, bro.
Do I expect ALL hookers to take notice..of course not..just like any advice or experience..take it or leave it. Never have I ever bowed to the "shit I have to drop my rates or business will tank" regardless of what else has happened.
Some of you johns bet on that happening and as always there are the fearful who fulfill your dream of lowered rates.
So my supply and demand has done great during now and 2008 and beyond...and I am sure I am not the only one.
In addition, a single hooker is not AM with a giant ass database full of personal info that I highly doubt a brilliant hacker is going to bother with. Those type of hackers go for the huge guns...not one or two hookers off TER or a mall.
But if you think you can scare a few young girls into dropping their rates even more for you, then go ahead.
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That's not what your OP was implying with your one size fits all dumbass advice HT.
Please note it was ME that said each girl should look at her own case individually and it was YOU that gave blanket advice, completely indifferent to their own personal situation.
This thread was NEVER about scaring anyone, it was discussing the truth of a situation. A truth that you and a few hookers here cant deal with in a logical or rational manner.
You running all over this thread putting out fires based on your own self serving business/economic needs is frankly pathetic.
You cant have an intelligent convo about the rules of supply and demand without resorting to advocacy for a position steeped in illogic and conflict of interest for you.
Why is that?
Maybe because the money has clouded your otherwise insightful and intelligent posts on other matters in p4p
I said what I said to those who maybe in my position..only a hooker knows if her business will weather the storm from her experience or not. Some hookers think the sky is falling if a trick mentions she might lose business.
I feel I was logical for my situation. And by adding that other hookers might want to stay put as far as rates is a fair statement. As fair as yours was that hooker might need to drop rates to deal with the backlash...paraphrasing.
And conflict of interest ..this coming from a guy who never pays full freight...it is in your best self serving interest to sway it your way and continue the....well yep, looks like the hookers might need to lower rates blah blah.
Bottom line is in my experience if you have a great base and you are legit and upfront and do as you say, and your client base is quality to meet the needs, there is no need to slash prices. The guys I see and have seen over the years have never dickered about my price, wanted discounts for a frequent flyer, and seemed to have weathered the last dip in the economy to keep seeing me weekly!
So that is what my post is based on...any hooker who read it can take it or leave it, or apply it to her experience...or not.
Never did I say it was the ONLY way, it is one way, a way that has NEVER failed me and I am not the only hooker that has come through this without having a financial panic attack and caved to cheap tricks
Ok, lets simplify it. You said:
"So ladies, don't play into the fear and stay the way you are."
You were speaking to the ladies here in general, NOT the specific ones who are in "your situation."
THATS the problem I had with your post. For some, that may be good advice, for others, ummm, not so much.
It isn't always fear to lower ones rate HT, it can be a wise and sound strategy.
No one size fits all ever works, imo.
You might have a point.
And those that choose to lower their rates, will do so regardless of that I or any hooker says. The ones "in my situation" will hear this and nod...the rest can do whatever they feel like.
How is this any different than a trick advising/telling hookers...not ALL hookers to reduce rates to keep regulars? I read this and go nope...don't need to BECAUSE that john is not talking to me, he is talking to the hookers who listen to johns
Let me ask...
You agree with me then that SOME girls MAY have to reduce their rates in certain markets conditions, correct HT?
Ladies, ignore your fellow professional providers and listen to him! Years of experience in the industry are nothing compared to the sage advice of a guy who reads the WSJ and occasionally hires escorts lol. It's not like it's in his best interest to get on here and scare providers into lowering their rates or anything..
Raise your prices or lower them, I don't really care, the actions of a single hooker in a different state than me won't affect me one iota, BUT you were the one claiming that "higher risk" would lead to higher prices and that assessment is just plain WRONG, as so many of us have pointed out to you.
Face it, NO ONE wants to hear about a softening market in their own industry, trust me about that. I am in the oil business and last year when oil was selling for over a hundred bucks a barrel I knew it was too good to be true, I knew prices had to fall, but do you think I was out there telling the world that they were paying me too much? Of course not, and now I have to deal with the reality of getting 60% less for my product than I did just a year ago. Denying it doesn't help one bit, and please don't try to claim that your POV is any less self serving than is Jack's
And please don't forget that some of us guys have more years in this business than most of you ladies have even been alive. Some of us not only predate the internet, we predate cell phones. I bet you I have seen more hookers than you have johns. My "number" is well into the thousands, what's your number? lol
What I said, in response to the original question of whether or not the recent issues with the stock market and the AM hack would cause rates to lower, was "Nope! Especially now that the risk is a little higher".
Which is NOT the same thing as saying that the higher risk (real or imagined) "would lead to higher prices". So either you read that comment elsewhere and incorrectly attributed it to me, or you're just making things up to try and invalidate what I said. Either way, you're wrong.
And while I think it's cute that you think that your thousands of encounters with providers has made you an authority on all things related to this industry, unless you've actually worked as an escort yourself, your advice means next to nothing to me. I've eaten in thousands of restaurants in my life, but that sure as hell doesn't make me fit to run one. And, unlike you, I'd never dream of telling a restaurant owner what's best for their business based on the fact that I have sooooo much experience dining out.
the rest of my point/s stands.
but I am not here to beg for or even predict lower prices for hookers. Although I do believe there are other downward pressures being put on prices, not the least of which is wage stagnation in the general labor market, couple with a huge influx of illegal aliens who have to make a living somehow. The way things are going, i won't have to travel to third world countries, the third world is coming here. lol
as for my expertise in this industry, I am hardly just a customer. I have lived with a couple of hookers, I am VERY good friends with several hookers and agency owners and have just as good an insight on how this business works as any hooker on this board. Believe it or not some hookers actually ASK me for advice on how to run their business. I am NOT telling you how to run your business, frankly I really don't care how you run your business, I just wanted to point out how your post/s was every bit as self serving as Jack's. Not that I blame you for it, I mean what hooker is going to come on here and advocate for lowering her rate? duh
Sorry, but you've lost me again. Self serving means having concern for one's own interests ABOVE the interests of others.
So Jack's advice that providers ought to lower their rates is self serving because it's in his best interest to spend less money on the exact same services, even if that means a potential drop in income for the providers themselves.
But in all of my posts and replies, all I've said is that I don't plan on changing my rates. That's it. So while there's an obvious concern for my own interests, there's no one on the other end who's losing out because of it. So explain to me exactly how that would be considered self serving?
Self serving is not necessarily a bad thing. but it is what it is, and Jack's post is most definitely self serving. Holding firm in a falling rate environment and trying to make the case for doing so is most definitely "self serving" Just like if I were to advocate that all oil producers should hold firm at $100 bbl, that would be not only self serving, but futile. You don't need to be so sensitive about it, you don't see H+T get bent out of shape about this, she will almost certainly agree that holding firm on her rates is "self serving" and she'll own it.
BTW you were being a bit dishonest in making your point about my knowledge of P4P, unless you are lying about your age. You aren't old enough to have been a customer at "thousands of restaurants"
I will concede that most hookers know more about this business than most tricks. but there are a handful of guys on this board who know every bit as much about this business as you will ever know. I will put my forty years of being around hookers and johns at every level and in several countries against your year or two of being a hooker any day. Now someone like H+T or LR who have been around here and the business for more years than they care to count are one thing, you OTOH are still in the learning stage, not the teaching stage.
First of all, I'm not ADVOCATING anything. Nowhere in any of my comments have I advised, suggested, or encouraged any other providers to keep their rates the same. I've spoken only about what I plan to do with MY rates in MY situation. I know you really want to prove your point here, but can't you at least try to do that without blatantly making things up?
Additionally, you seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of what self serving means. Keeping my rates the same may be in my best interest, but in order for it to be "self serving" it would have to also dismiss the needs, best interest, or well-being of someone else. So until you show me how keeping my rates the same is at anyone else's expense, we're just going to have to put this idea of yours on the ever-expanding list of things you're wrong about.
Next, I think it is absolutely hilarious (and more than a little pathetic) that you have somehow managed to convince yourself that you know ANYTHING about me beyond what's on my profile and whatever you've gleaned about my personal life through my writing on the boards. You don't. Stop kidding yourself. You want to know how many restaurants I've been to in my 25 years? Here's a very conservative estimate: Let's assume that I didn't start paying attention to where I was eating until I was around 5 years old. That's 20 years of dining out. Now, I have always eaten out at around 3 times a week at least (being from NY, that's not uncommon), or an average of 156 times a year. That would put my total instances of dining in restaurants at 3,120. Of course, there were weeks that I didn't go out to eat at all, but then there were also many times that I ate 3 meals a day in restaurants for 1 or 2 weeks straight (on vacation, for example). So while that might not be a Bob.Sugar approved statistic, it is definitely a fair estimate.
Lastly, you may be right that I have only a fraction of the knowledge and experience that some of the other women on TER do. But I don't care how much of your life you've apparently devoted to the study of "whoremongering"... I will always rank the opinions and advice of an actual sex worker FAR above anything that some self-professed expert John has to say. Now I'm done with this thread. You've proven time and again that you aren't above misquoting people, taking things out of context, putting words in people's mouth, and making ridiculous assumptions about things you know NOTHING about, and I'm not going to keep playing this game with you. If you have anything else you'd like to say to me, you're free to send me a PM.
Bent out of shape no and I hardly feel Ava's post as "bent out of shape". We are saying much the same thing, in fact she is saying a little better than me. I am rushed and need to get off this board...lol
And I'm not sorry to say either. If anything, and increase in risk would necessitate an increase in rates, but that's just the opinion of someone who is admittedly not an economist.
It's whether or not the phone rings.
Which brings me to a mini history of rates. Fifteen to twenty years ago, unless you amped or searched the streets, the way to play was at the brothels. The rates were around 200/hr, and you didn't worry about anything. Of course, you were literally on the clock, a faster the normal clock at that. With those ladies, there was very little connectivity. Not much bang for your buck. All of a sudden the brothel rates just skyrocketed. You couldn't get a party for under 6 bills, still with a fast clock, and zero connection. Luckily, right about that time internet escorting took off. For that same old 200, a high percentage of seriously competing internet ladies went out of their way to make connections. It was the greatest bang for your buck of all time. It was an incredible time to hobby. Those ladies got me through ten years of my boring job. Thank you, thank you!!!
Then along came Black Wednesday, and all of that changed. The internet rates, just like the old brothel rates, skyrocketed into the stratosphere. What's worse, with the new higher rates, in my experience, the attempt at connectivity has mostly declined. Even no shows with highly rated ladies have increased. That old bang for your buck is vanishing. Now for a nice wham bam the ladies are asking 500, 600, 700, 1000, and even 2000 per hour, putting the average good guy near the sideline.
But it's absolutely hilarious. Back in the 200 days, I did a rare 300 splurge on a lady with a body to die for. It was just one of those curiosity things. The session was wild but she didn't have a connective bone in her body. A very low bang for your buck rating. Nevertheless, because of that killer body, I still kept her on my list, but at the bottom. If I seriously needed to get my rocks off, and all my 200 atfs were busy, she got the nod. But it's been the strangest thing during the current stratospheric upheaval. Her rate has gone unchanged (knock on my wood). Her 300 is no longer a splurge. It's low. And since most of the 500+ ladies have little interest in connecting either, she has gone from the bottom of my list to near the top. I can't believe my good fortune.
I first found out about mongering in the late 80's. A guy told me about an agency. It was nothing like the way people describe Nevada whorehouses. There were no acronyms. It was just called "having sex." There were a few girls who did not want to kiss. Cost was 150-200. It was all outcall. Then in late 1991 a certain basketball player told everybody a bullshit story about how he got Aids from "accommodating" 1,000 women. Then the girls started insisting on these polyurethane tubes. I stopped mongering.
It was for the best. Real world girlfriends were more challenging. I ended up getting married. LOL
Back in 2007, 300 was a pretty standard rate for an attractive GFE type. I heard the internet ladies of the early 00's really cleaned up in the Bay Area/Silicon Valley. Lots of socially inept geeks flush with money.
I don't think it went almost all internet until maybe 2010?
I started in the mid '80s in NY. The prices were about the same but all sex was covered. And you can't be serious about "all internet until maybe 2010?" This site was started around 2000 and was quite large when I joined in 2010. There were also several others, none of which can be mentioned here. This game was "all internet" (at least in this country) for years before that. Unless you mean SWs.
Where ya been
Where ya been?
And Yes, I used to read Street action sections of other groups. It did not seem to die down until 2010. I'm sure there is some SA left but I doubt it's very much.
As long as enough consumers perceive the cost of a service or product to have value equal to price the price will remain stable. In my uneducated opinion prices will remain stable in this market until there is a general recovery or a general downturn. Some will settle for less income before reducing rates. Some will retire and some will reduce rates and work more. But if you are looking for a general 25% reduction based on a few days of stock and commodities action, don't hold your breath.
The truth is the playing field always changes. For every provider that leaves the hobby their's another just starting out. The rates here are mostly ridiculous. Tech money has caused this and the Stock Market won't affect this is in the short run. They're still many fine ladies that have what I consider normal rates (3) If fellow hobbyist refrain from seeing those ladies that are charging 5 plus then and only then will the market change here. If you ever travel outside the area you'll certainly notice much more friendly/reasonable dating situations.