This is not a shaming question, just of curiosity. Have any of you successfully worked your mind into feeling that cheating on your wife is acceptable, maybe even good, for your marriage? The old "what she doesn't know won't hurt her" mentality? Maybe even feeling that this sneaking around is a good thing for all parties?
At times I'm there, and at other times I feel really shitty about it. I just wonder if for some men it comes more easily than me.
So I'm part of the process, even though it's not P4P. And, no, I don't feel bad about it. She cheats because he makes her feel like shit and they never have sex. He deserves what he's getting. And so do I.
Who here WANTS to be cheated on? Hands raised please!
Or who here thinks if their wife/SO came to them one day and said, "honey, just wanted to tell you, I have been fking the pool boy for 3 years, and I really think its HELPED our marriage!" that they would accept that nonsense?
Look if it makes you, or anyone else here, happy to have that twisted logic to make you feel better, well, that's your personal business.
People like to rationalize shit so they can do it. My suggestion? Stop cheating. Or not. But don't play this "its good for the marriage" crap.
You would be only lying to yourself.
Well said Jack.
Quit rationalizing this Shit and man up!
Or who here thinks if their wife/SO came to them one day and said, "honey, just wanted to tell you, I have been fking the pool boy for 3 years, and I really think its HELPED our marriage!" that they would accept that nonsense?
Look if it makes you, or anyone else here, happy to have that twisted logic to make you feel better, well, that's your personal business.
People like to rationalize shit so they can do it. My suggestion? Stop cheating. Or not. But don't play this "its good for the marriage" crap.
You would be only lying to yourself.
Who here WANTS to be cheated on? That's an over-simplistic question just as asinine as asking: who here wants to die?
Reality is that yes sometimes people DO want to die. To defend their country. To defend their loved ones. So that other loved one may live. To defend honor. Etc... etc...
You're entitled to your opinion and belief but others are entitled to "rationalize" according theirs.
Maybe a better question for you to ask would be:
Who here knows where I can stick my "suggestion"?
For the guys who only complain about what a hell their marriage is, they're the one's who need to man up and get a divorce. But there are scores of others who are otherwise happy in the life they've built with their SO, except for the sex. Oftentimes, the sex issues creep in over time once kids enter the picture, or due to career pressures or physical/psychological ailments, etc.
In our sex negative culture, the person with the higher libido is expected to suppress their desires to the level of the low libido partner, which will manifest is stress and resentment on the part of the high libido partner. The best outcome would be for the couple to agree to an arrangement that would satisfy the sexual needs of both partners.
Some people are wimps about having "the talk," while others may make the calculation that the talk will lead to more trouble then it's worth (ex. sometimes it's about biding time and staying sane while waiting for the low libido partner to come around). Sneaking around is the "best worst option" for the second group.
If you can't live with it, then just stop. Stepping away is truly the easiest thing to do.
... how quickly some here judge others when they have no idea of the situation. You mentioned some scenarios, and of course there's others.
There's some who say that the cheater should exit the marriage rather than cheat, because that's what they did. Not every situation is the same. I doubt, for example, that those who say that would ever consider walking away from a disabled child.
For some of us, it does come down to "the best worst option".
Leave it to the self-righteous blowhard windbags who probably never married and never walked a step in a married shoe to pass judgment out of their rear end about something they know shit about
I love my wife; been married for nearly 30 years, get along with her and live with her just fine. I do care about her and I would be absolutely devastated if something happened to her. Have great children that all turned out well and some new grandchildren. Plan to stay married till I die.
Is it good for my marriage - ABSOLUTELY NOT. Do I feel guilty - YES. But it is something I need to do anyway.
Just amazing sometimes how you can rationalize stuff - ain't it!!
Not all of us hobbyists are married, some of us are very happily divorced and have no intentions on having another GF/BF relationship. I mean honestly, explain the upside?
In this sport I get the very best part of a relationship without the pain and suffering of a real relationship.
And please don't try to explain that pussy is free in a relationship, pussy is never ever free. It's simply a matter of how you wish to pay for it.
She committed to intimate and has not done that for years. I thought it was love, honor and obey! I had no idea you have to put "sex" in the vows.
My wife has never had to work. I would only feel guilty if I needed money or financial support from her. Since I have given her everything from houses to cars to designer shoes on MY dime there is no reason to feel the slightest guilt.
I'd have no problem committing to only having sex with one woman, without the paper of marriage. This way when she stops putting out, I walk away gracefully. But with marriage, when she stops putting out and you want to leave, she gets half your stuff.
It is a two way street, as it stands today she can simply deny him sex, and society says he has to grin and bear it. Bullshit, she's made a commitment as well to keep him happy. I never did cheat on my ex, I didn't start my hobby until after my divorce. But if you asked my ex, she'd tell you I cheated because I jacked off to porn. What a bullshit control mechanism, deny him sex, and accuse him of infidelity because he takes matters into his own hands so that you can use sex as a tool. I fell for that bullshit game for a little while, but once I figured her game out I said see ya bye.
Bottom line is, men pay for sex, we always have and always will. Some choose to pay for it directly with cash, others pay for it with their soul. There is nothing more horrific than an amputated soul.
it's "love honor and cherish" thee day sport!
GOOD ONE! Likewise in my case.
My wife has never had to work. I would only feel guilty if I needed money or financial support from her. Since I have given her everything from houses to cars to designer shoes on MY dime there is no reason to feel the slightest guilt.
Angels, civvie and professionals I'd have gotten unhitched long ago. Best of both worlds for all
At times I'm there, and at other times I feel really shitty about it. I just wonder if for some men it comes more easily than me.
Was married 30 years. The last 10 with little sex. Started hobbying. Never got caught. She decided she wanted a divorce. Could have tried counseling but then realized why try when there is a good chance she will find out about this sooner or later and then the shit will really hit the fan.
I started hobbying when I knew, after 2 years of no sex in my marriage, that I was done. I was monogamous for 10 years in this one. And 16 years in my first marriage. I got tired of pleasuring myself, lol, thought I'd invite some others to the party.
It's helped me make the decision to be single again.
No more tied up relationships
The utter devestation i caused my wife when she found out i cheated....i would NEVER do that again....and while what i did was WRONG i will say that in the long run it has made us stronger than ever....i cant say others will be as lucky as i am to have such an amazing wife that was willing to give a second chance, but i am so thankful that she did, we are now a part of this hobby together and are loving every minute of it, even though i still feel miserable for what happened i cant say i regret doing it because it gave me my wife back. .....i dont down anyone that is in this hobby and has a SO that doesnt know, we all have our own cross to bear.....to each their own. I just wish everyone the best.
At times I'm there, and at other times I feel really shitty about it. I just wonder if for some men it comes more easily than me.
I was married at 25 and a widower at 26 (I'm now 47). I was only married for a little over 6 months but I can honestly say that if I was still married I would not be in the hobby. I've only been in the hobby for about 4 years, but its sooooo much easier than dating. I believe most men hobby because of its convince, a "no strings attached" relationship where all your physical needs are met, who would not want that? One of my best friends knows I hobby and he doesn't totally understand why I do it. For me when I date "civilian" woman one of two things happen when I divulge I'm a widower:
1. They say they are sorry and have the attitude that I'm broken and run for the hills.
2. they say they are sorry and have the attitude that I'm broken and they see it as their mission to "fix" me.
Now its important to understand I don't go around telling people I'm a widower and I have done all the therapy and healing to be well adjusted. I have to be dating a woman for some time before I let her know. And when I do the above tend to happen. So when I explained this to my friend I think he understood more, but he doesn't approve.
getting back to the original question, I would have not cheated on my wife for a couple of reasons:
1. She was my everything, my soul mate. Being with her was as natural as breathing .
2. She had a passion that was immeasurable. She lived life like there was no tomorrow and that is one of the many things I loved about her. So I think if I would have cheated and she found out she would have killed me, and I don't mean figuratively. So yeah I'm not ashamed to say that there would have been a level of fear associated with the decision to cheat on her 
.
So I hope this post is not a downer, but when I read it it really got me thinking.
Be Safe!
Buck
-- Modified on 7/31/2015 4:20:30 PM
How does being married as kid for 6 months to another kid have anything to do with knowing what your life would be like 20+ years down the road?
And WTF are you telling women that you're a widower? Why is that relevant at this stage in your life?
Stop with the therapy...it's NOT helping!
I'm begging you, please don't use him for a piñata.
I know that in HS going steady for 6 months may have been considered a long term relationship....but to have been married in someones mid-20's for half a year?
What I'm wondering is why after all these years that buck is babbling about that with women in their 40's who honestly...don't give a shit. Maybe they were part of his therapy program?
FWIW...Ali MacGraw was not Phil's daughter. But she whined a lot. Ryan caught a break there! And then came Farrah.....there's a lesson in there for buck.
I appreciate your feedback. If I read your response right I think it comes down to maybe we are dating totally different kinds of women in our "regular" lives. Also as I stated it's not like I lead with the fact that I'm a widower on the 1st date, but it does usually come out after a month or 2 of dating, its called getting to know the other person. Oh BTW.... the Love Story comparison is a new one my friend.
Be Safe!
Buck
-- Modified on 7/31/2015 11:16:40 PM
There may be some rationalized benefits which are quite true, to some extent.
Marriage can be extremely satisfying and rewarding, but it's not for everyone. Issues will arise that require couples to change or adapt in ways they never even imagined at first. Those issues (children, career responsibilities and the above mentioned differences in libido) have to be dealt with on a daily basis year after year after year. Those challenges often are faced mostly alone by either the wife or the husband. Then, as decades pass by, resentment can set in.
But if each partner abides by the most important (I think) "for better or for worse" vow, all can still be good. When saying those words, we have not a clue what the "for better or worse" might entail. Cheating, I am convinced, is not nearly the "worst" that can happen in a marriage or to any of us individually. So, like CP said, choosing the "best worst option" makes a lot of sense to me.
My wife and I have always maintained our own individuality, interests, and even secrets. We don't spy, pry, or try to control each other and we both know that no one is perfect. Our most important qualities really have nothing to do with sex
What I say will probably be quite controversial but I have spent a lot of time in the realm of bad marriages and divorces, and while that alone doesn't make me right, perhaps this is something you didn't know
BAck when grounds were required even our legislators knew that when sex was gone so was the marriage. constructive abandonment/desertion was among the most popular grounds I knew of. Here is a very vanilla but useful definition: In the case of sexual relations, constructive abandonment means a spouse leaves the marriage in spirit by refusal to have sexual relations (generally for a year, but it varies).
So the marriage is defacto over even though no party has filed for divorce. People were not meant to live together as a married couple with this big piece missing. But of course sometimes people need to live together for various reasons and some MC johns (moral compass) seem to think their sort of divorce and life was the only one that matters and one size fits all. It may have been their situation but it's not everyones - not even close. So while some might call what a spouse who has been constructively abandoned cheating, I think a good argument can be made equating it to shooting a dead body and saying it's murder.
So cheaters... you may not be cheating as much as others would would have you believe you are. Yes you may ot have filed for divorce, but your marriage is dead if you are stuck in a dead marriage and cannot leave for reasons many not living your life will never understand, then arguably this is simply taking a piece of your life back from one who has abandoned you.
I am sure there are MCs who will howl, but that's life, go for it... But I am also sure there are many here living lives of quiet desperation so to speak, who will at least feel a little better about what they are doing
Just so! I couldn't start seeing hookers until I had worked this out for myself to my own moral satisfaction. Took me too many years. Well said!
... But I am also sure there are many here living lives of quiet desperation so to speak, who will at least feel a little better about what they are doing.
I agree with this.
In my experience people focus on the promise to be faithful, but like OTM said they forget the promise to love, which is the bedrock of a marriage. Loving someone includes wanting to touch them, talk to them, have sex with them. If you truly love someone you want them to be happy. So I think in a sexless marriage the first vow that was broken was the promise to love.
And divorce is breaking a promise just as much as cheating is. Also, divorce is hard, and I'm not talking studying for the SATs hard. It's like nuclear war hard, especially for the kids. I think for the people with kids who are basically happy, who aren't fighting all the time over issues not related to sex, it's better to stay married.
Yes, it IS good for all parties. The alternative, divorce or unhappy marriage is BAD for all parties including the kids.
Yes, ignorance is bliss. What one does not know does not hurt.
Pretty good topic for what I have been battling within recently. I would certainly be on the wagon that believes cheating is wrong and I constantly ask myself why have I recently delved into this hobby. It gets very frustrating to feel that you are always the one chasing for intimacy and never being the one hunted. I guess that's why I finally took the plunge into this crazy world earlier this year. Had a couple rough experiences and some pretty good ones too. Even met someone I see regularly (every week or more) who I seem to really click with (never saw that one coming).
5 years ago I would have never guessed I would end up where I am but I guess having your emotions beat down throughout the years can change things. Actually my experiences have led me to believe that divorce may be the best thing but it's been 14 years as of this week and it's tough to admit failure. But then again is it failure if you feel like you are the only one that tried for the last several years?
I've actually recently had my secret ready to let go on the tip of my tongue several times just so it could be over and on to a different life.
So as you can see I am conflicted. I'm still not sure how I allowed myself to get here and I don't really know where I'm going. I feel bad for participating in this world and I feel bad when I don't but in the moment I am fulfilled and whole. I think I know the answer but just afraid to take the next step and let go...
according to Freud.
I have found it to be very complicated in marriage and in our case about many other things..
I am happily married and have no interest in a divorce. I can not live without sex for decades. I will not force my wife to engage in sex if she has no interest.
My solution has been lobbying and for a time sex with friend with benefits. This proved unfair to her as she fell in love and rightly wanted more from me than I could give and still stay married.
So I rely on the hobby. It keeps my sex drive reasonably satisfied, my happy married life continues, my children and grand children continue to enjoy our stable relationship.
I have no guilt about this, I blame no one because I see no blame to be given.
Just physical intimacy is not. I can tolerate my wife seek male escort with her own money but not a relationship with some guy.The precise is she can make sure the safety first. I do not want her to get hurt or sick. But that is hard: usually women develop a feeling before sex which means spiritually betraying first. Of course hobbying is immoral and illegal. But I would recite a chinese saying " There are no fish growing in pure water". I am ok with it as long as you shoulder your obligation of taking care of your women and family. Take precautions not to get the std and pass onto your wife. In the last years, I saw providers only a few times. They all happened after either when she denied intimacy after a fight or we were apart for more than a week due to business reason. I still love her and would do my best to keep up our marriage. But I do enjoy some variety for my manhood.
If your spouse thinks it's cheating and/or you have to hide it from her/him, then yes "it's cheating"
If you can conduct your business in the light of day and not hide it from your SO, then no, it's not cheating.
I've been cheated on twice and didn't dig it at all and had never cheated before. Sex was great when I eats married. That's not why I strayed. We, actually I started going in debt. I had never been in debt my entire life. I even asked her to stop showing her bank statements. She kept on spending. Oh, and I was the only one working at the time Cheating definitely saved me financially and I don't feel bad at all. Sorry I hurt her but I'm much happier.
At times I'm there, and at other times I feel really shitty about it. I just wonder if for some men it comes more easily than me.
I did not know the lady was married. It ended up causing a lot of problems with her relationship with her man.
But cheating sure keeps me from committing financial suicide and leaving the marriage.. as others have said, I don't feel any guilt at all... she's the one that decided that sex was for younger people and that "we" no longer needed it.
So she keeps her house and her lifestyle.. I budget as much as I can for the girls I really want to be with.. she smells of dead dreams..
also unutterably sad. I'd rather commit financial suicide. Or just plain suicide.
Religious fanatics and others who were raised in puritanical culture. Suppose, you don't realize it is perfectly k in many cultures.
World is not limited to your puritinicsl regressive mentality.
While seeing providers is still cheating in every sense of the word, it is different in my opinion, because both parties are basically conducting "business", and feelings and emotions are not involved. When it is an actual affair, this MANY times ends in divorce, because the other person wants something more, and eventually, everything blows up, the wife finds out, and it's either divorce or lots of marriage counseling. With PFP, while if you see someone regularly, and there is some emotional connection because it is inevitable, it is not the same as an actual affair. The lady is there to make a profit, meet new friends, and have fun, and the gent is there to receive something he either no longer receives at home (if married or in a relationship), or doesn't have time for (if single and working a lot). While I do not think it is morally right, I also don't think a wife/gf withholding sex for years is right either....so it's a 2-sided coin.
I was married for 7 years before I began providing, and can imagine the devastation of being cheated on...no matter whether it was an escort or a civvie. While I never caught my husband cheating, I had PLENTY of bf's before him that did so, and I found out every time. But, after providing for the last 10 years, I can also say that I have heard too many stories that are the same....wife/gf no longer has sex, or is intimate at all, and instead of having an affair which can get very messy, they chose to see escorts x-amount of times per year instead. I feel that as a woman, you should KNOW that men like to have sex, and if YOU aren't fulfilling that anymore, than someone else will...it just seems like common sense to me. I have had children myself....it never stopped my sex life, so I never understood that excuse?
Thanks for all the great responses. Sorry I'm late getting back to this. All your thoughts and ideas have been helpful. I've been doing this for 5 years now and the guilt feeling still hasn't really left. That's in part because it takes a lot of effort to get any hobbying done. I might take a break and work more on the marriage. If it doesn't work then the wife and I can divorce and I can hobby with a relatively easy mind. Later.