The ones who insisted on getting paid a "nominal fee" for showing up to a first meeting were past / present hookers! The benefit of having been on TER and other local sites were that I could do cross reference checks and you'd be surprised as to how many hookers were also using their hooker phones for their SB'ing activities. This showing up fee request would vary between $50 to $200 (in my geographic market) depending on the time of day and the venue. I did not follow through with any known hookers who were also masquerading as SBs.
The 21 to 23 Yo civilian demographics almost never ever asked or expected any initial meeting fee, unless they had been on WYP (an awful and wa$teful site for this purpose) which had already skewed and had warped their mentality and opinion about SB'ing. IMO, if you are going to meet a civilian for dinner and they have put the effort into their appearances, i.e, hair, make-up, mani & pedi; it is a nobel notion to compensate them for that effort if you feel that you click and you are planning on seeing them again. Getting money involved in the first meet can be one of those double edge swords but if you guess correctly and act without stumbling all over yourself, it will go a long way to establish goodwill. Some potential SBs (the lingo used in Sugar Bowl is POT SB) who are older, say in their 30's or 40's (personally I never went for those in their 40's as someone within a handful of years away from my own age was not considered "SB" material to me) are like freelance semi pros and most often because they are in dire need of making some $ immediately, they are willing to have sex and they will give you some succinct clues (normally will hint to the tight financial jam in which they are in) Stay away from those who just moved to your city and have no job, car, health plan, etc. Those are bad news! Again in my geographic area a one night stand like that came in the range of 300-500 depending on her looks and the time spent. Some I never saw again as the communication just naturally faded. Those kind of women are also considered "high volume" SBs because they will entertain other SDs for the same reasons, specially those who are willing to whisk them off for a 2-3 days trip out of states to somewhere "nice". Considering that a hooker charges upwards o 5K+ for 48 hours "companionship" and a typical SB comes in at a 1/3 or 1/2 of that, many mongers chose SBs over pros for that economically beneficial factor alone! Here is a tidbit which I found very interesting: most POT SBs who had a few SDs and were adept in the ways that SB'ing worked, always told me that their best SD/SB experiences were with SDs who were traveling businessmen in that locale for business for a short period of say 2-3 months. These were typically SBs in the 27 to 35 range, who were looking for about 2K-3k in supplemental income per month but were also wary of men who could have become attached and clingy. Typically you'd ask for 2 meets per week for that sort of compensation. That is a good ploy to use if you want out after a short time! Parting words: never, ever give any "allowance" unless you are BCD consummating the arrangement and make that notion very clear. In that paradigm be prepared to fork out 1/2 the monthly allowance during the consummation session with the better quality SB who does not wish to be "treated" like a hooker. It's a hedge bet, sometimes it works and sometimes you lose. Again, all from experience.
Hey TER community. Since you all were so helpful on my last post regarding SB/SD vs. Arrangements with an ATF I thought I would go to the well once more. I have my first encounter with a prospective SB. We are to meet in the next day or two. I have a few questions. Do you give them $$$ for the first meeting (the get to know each other Starbucks visit)? If so, how much is customary? If there is chemistry do you discuss an on-going amount at that time? If so, who blinks first (does the SD make the offer, or does the SB express her idea of the amount, or is it like negotiation where the first to mention an amount loses)? Though the first meeting is public is there normally a discussion about bedroom activities? Not, when are we going to F***, but an attempt to figure out sexual chemistry and if there is a match ? (Side note: I'd imagine this is when the Arrangement with A Pro really is a big advantage as we would know exactly what they'll do BCD). It'd suck to really love oral only to discover your SB hates it after the allowance is agreed to and several encounters. Lastly, what if the first meeting doesn't go well, like you find she is overweight or just not your type? Anyone use crafty messaging to end communication at that point?
In the spirit of full disclosure I am going to post this note on the Erotic Highway board too, as I'm hoping Zangari will chime in as he seems to be the SB guru. One other detail that may be helpful is that this woman I am considering isn't a typical SB. Although I found her on one of those sites she is about 30. No disrespect to Z or any others in the TER community but, I have a real hard time trying to see college girls. Not judging anyone else, but the hottest thing for me is the psychological connection, the witty banter and the non sexual chemistry. I am near 50 and the very young just don't do it for me.
If you like her and there is chemistry, you should definitely discuss the rate. Why do you feel - "who blinks first (does the SD make the offer, or does the SB express her idea of the amount, or is it like negotiation where the first to mention an amount loses)? " If it was me, at the right moment I would say " My last arrangement, I was offering $/month & we usually meet _times/month or less depending on our schedule. " If you let her tell you the rate first, I guarantee that she would give you a high #. If that was way above what you are willing to pay, you just fucked up the meeting. " I am sure that you have a budget and you should stick with that budget. I am not an expert on this at all just my 2cents. BTW, it might be a good idea to PM Zangari.
-- Modified on 7/31/2015 8:27:56 AM
However never paid for a get to know you meet.
In the spirit of full disclosure I am going to post this note on the Erotic Highway board too, as I'm hoping Zangari will chime in as he seems to be the SB guru. One other detail that may be helpful is that this woman I am considering isn't a typical SB. Although I found her on one of those sites she is about 30. No disrespect to Z or any others in the TER community but, I have a real hard time trying to see college girls. Not judging anyone else, but the hottest thing for me is the psychological connection, the witty banter and the non sexual chemistry. I am near 50 and the very young just don't do it for me.
o NOT give them money for showing up to the date. There is a place called Whatsmyprice that encourages that. All most guys find there are girls who want to be paid for dating. If they came a long way to meet me, I give them 60 bucks for gas money AFTER the date.
You treat it like any other civilian date. Get them to talk about themselves. Find out what their goals in life are. Find out what their relationship with their family is. I consider it a job "interview" but I don't tell them that. Find out what their actual needs and expectations are before talking allowance.
If they are looking for some kind of a "session price" and want to make their money right away it's almost certainly a hooker. Civilian sugar babies will talk "allowance."
I don't discuss "bedroom activities." I will mention my kids and the fact I had a vasectomy since I don't want anymore. If I know it's a hooker I love the reactions I get. Usually it's resignation that to get money out of this guy they can forget condom sex.
Ending the date is simple. If you have no interest just say you'll text her about getting together again. If you are interested in a second date (should be a dinner date) ask her to contact you.
Zangari (from what little I've read) picks out 9's and 10's for his college SBs and lesser looking girls for hookers. I do the exact opposite. If it's a "keeper" I put more emphasis on personality than looks. Some of these SD/SB relationships can last for years.
With a hooker it's just boobs,ass,legs and blowjobs. As long as they don't spit or yap at me I don't care about their personalities. With a SB I care about their personality since I'm going to be spending time outside the bedroom with them.
If you don't want college age SBs there are plenty of girls in their 30's who may be going back to school or just need an allowance to supplement their income.
I've been doing this for eight years but don't consider myself a "guru.
The ones who insisted on getting paid a "nominal fee" for showing up to a first meeting were past / present hookers! The benefit of having been on TER and other local sites were that I could do cross reference checks and you'd be surprised as to how many hookers were also using their hooker phones for their SB'ing activities. This showing up fee request would vary between $50 to $200 (in my geographic market) depending on the time of day and the venue. I did not follow through with any known hookers who were also masquerading as SBs.
The 21 to 23 Yo civilian demographics almost never ever asked or expected any initial meeting fee, unless they had been on WYP (an awful and wa$teful site for this purpose) which had already skewed and had warped their mentality and opinion about SB'ing. IMO, if you are going to meet a civilian for dinner and they have put the effort into their appearances, i.e, hair, make-up, mani & pedi; it is a nobel notion to compensate them for that effort if you feel that you click and you are planning on seeing them again. Getting money involved in the first meet can be one of those double edge swords but if you guess correctly and act without stumbling all over yourself, it will go a long way to establish goodwill.
Some potential SBs (the lingo used in Sugar Bowl is POT SB) who are older, say in their 30's or 40's (personally I never went for those in their 40's as someone within a handful of years away from my own age was not considered "SB" material to me) are like freelance semi pros and most often because they are in dire need of making some $ immediately, they are willing to have sex and they will give you some succinct clues (normally will hint to the tight financial jam in which they are in) Stay away from those who just moved to your city and have no job, car, health plan, etc. Those are bad news! Again in my geographic area a one night stand like that came in the range of 300-500 depending on her looks and the time spent. Some I never saw again as the communication just naturally faded. Those kind of women are also considered "high volume" SBs because they will entertain other SDs for the same reasons, specially those who are willing to whisk them off for a 2-3 days trip out of states to somewhere "nice". Considering that a hooker charges upwards o 5K+ for 48 hours "companionship" and a typical SB comes in at a 1/3 or 1/2 of that, many mongers chose SBs over pros for that economically beneficial factor alone!
Here is a tidbit which I found very interesting: most POT SBs who had a few SDs and were adept in the ways that SB'ing worked, always told me that their best SD/SB experiences were with SDs who were traveling businessmen in that locale for business for a short period of say 2-3 months. These were typically SBs in the 27 to 35 range, who were looking for about 2K-3k in supplemental income per month but were also wary of men who could have become attached and clingy. Typically you'd ask for 2 meets per week for that sort of compensation. That is a good ploy to use if you want out after a short time!
Parting words: never, ever give any "allowance" unless you are BCD consummating the arrangement and make that notion very clear. In that paradigm be prepared to fork out 1/2 the monthly allowance during the consummation session with the better quality SB who does not wish to be "treated" like a hooker. It's a hedge bet, sometimes it works and sometimes you lose. Again, all from experience.
I omitted to mention: if you do not feel comfortable discussing arrangement and allowance during the first meeting, definitely do so with authority and diplomacy during the next meeting, that is if there is going to be a next meeting. Otherwise, you will be noted for being inexperienced and wishy/washy. If both the POT SD and the POT SB have never been in any kind of arrangement, it could lead to awkwardness and quite frankly wasting time and $. In general, woman do respect a man who takes charge and puts the offer on the table. She may not give you an answer right there and then, so be diplomatically resourceful and don't trip all over yourself! Good luck.
Awesome post, My Man. Thanks for covering the things I did not. Personally I offer to pay them weekly and "Let's see how things work out the first month." After that I pay them every two weeks. NEVER pay then a full month in advance. I've heard of plenty of guys getting burned that way.
One of the important things to remember is that if she is a civilian you have to date her and NOT treat her like a hooker. Your post is so on target there is not much to add to it.
The 21 to 23 Yo civilian demographics almost never ever asked or expected any initial meeting fee, unless they had been on WYP (an awful and wa$teful site for this purpose) which had already skewed and had warped their mentality and opinion about SB'ing. IMO, if you are going to meet a civilian for dinner and they have put the effort into their appearances, i.e, hair, make-up, mani & pedi; it is a nobel notion to compensate them for that effort if you feel that you click and you are planning on seeing them again. Getting money involved in the first meet can be one of those double edge swords but if you guess correctly and act without stumbling all over yourself, it will go a long way to establish goodwill.
Some potential SBs (the lingo used in Sugar Bowl is POT SB) who are older, say in their 30's or 40's (personally I never went for those in their 40's as someone within a handful of years away from my own age was not considered "SB" material to me) are like freelance semi pros and most often because they are in dire need of making some $ immediately, they are willing to have sex and they will give you some succinct clues (normally will hint to the tight financial jam in which they are in) Stay away from those who just moved to your city and have no job, car, health plan, etc. Those are bad news! Again in my geographic area a one night stand like that came in the range of 300-500 depending on her looks and the time spent. Some I never saw again as the communication just naturally faded. Those kind of women are also considered "high volume" SBs because they will entertain other SDs for the same reasons, specially those who are willing to whisk them off for a 2-3 days trip out of states to somewhere "nice". Considering that a hooker charges upwards o 5K+ for 48 hours "companionship" and a typical SB comes in at a 1/3 or 1/2 of that, many mongers chose SBs over pros for that economically beneficial factor alone!
Here is a tidbit which I found very interesting: most POT SBs who had a few SDs and were adept in the ways that SB'ing worked, always told me that their best SD/SB experiences were with SDs who were traveling businessmen in that locale for business for a short period of say 2-3 months. These were typically SBs in the 27 to 35 range, who were looking for about 2K-3k in supplemental income per month but were also wary of men who could have become attached and clingy. Typically you'd ask for 2 meets per week for that sort of compensation. That is a good ploy to use if you want out after a short time!
Parting words: never, ever give any "allowance" unless you are BCD consummating the arrangement and make that notion very clear. In that paradigm be prepared to fork out 1/2 the monthly allowance during the consummation session with the better quality SB who does not wish to be "treated" like a hooker. It's a hedge bet, sometimes it works and sometimes you lose. Again, all from experience.
The SB experience is like GFE times 1000. At least it was for me. I really got intimate the way you don't with an escort: sexy little texts all day, planning the next date, no condoms (we both got tested), buying her little gifts just because you want to make her happy. My SB made me feel like a king, and like a moron I became attached. It was most painful when she told me she wanted to move on.
I may do the SB thing again, but I'm for sure going to remember it's a business deal next time.
Good luck with your SB!
I've had three SD relationships prior to jumping on the escort path. My first arrangement lasted one year - until he moved to Europe. He was married and going through a high profile divorce and didn't want to add fuel to the fire in letting his soon to be ex-wife know he was dating. We had a blast together and I decided I wanted to do it again.
My second and third ones were single and after about four months, one wanted me to move in with him and the other wanted to get married. I had just gone through a divorce a few years prior and was not looking to get married or move in with anyone at the time. Needless to say, that's where they ended.
From my personal experience, and the experience of three close girlfriends who were doing the same thing at the time: Our observation, since my previous arrangements, was that the ones who contacted us on the SD sites.....
Over 90% were Time Wasters looking for chat buddies
Over 90% sent Pictures looking for compliments, wanting to hear how handsome they were, etc.
Over 90% were Picture collectors - wanted us to send nude, sexy photos - Not
Over 90% wanted to pay pennies on the dollar for an EXCLUSIVE relationship (code: no condom) and demand three nights a week, etc. In my opinion, that's a full blown relationship.
Over 90% of the out of town business travelers wanted a beautiful dinner companion, with absolutely NO intention of an arrangement - too cheap to pay an escort
Over 90% of the out of town ones expected us to fly to them for a meet and greet for no money, several wanted us for the entire weekend.
Over 80% wanted a FREE TEST DRIVE, probably with no intention of an arrangement - just FREE sex
Needless to say it was mentally exhausting and not fun anymore.
We also heard from guy's we chatted with and had met that the women had smartened up vs 5 years ago. It seems there are more people, on both sides, trying to take advantage of a situation. I can't tell you how many guys set up initial meetings with the ladies who no-showed.
This is only my experience and the experience of three girlfriends. I am not pretending to know it all - I don't.
Jumping on the escort path has been a beautiful thing for me. In my opinion, it's much safer as well.
Just think about how many SB out there are telling you..."You're the only one", just because they're desperate and need money, with unprotected sex. Something to think about?
xox
I know a couple of gentlemen who have met ladies and do well in the relationship, but I do agree that a lot of the guys want what you say. I hear millionaire matchmaker is a great site, and the men and women must do a face to face interview to enter the site.
Ways to avoid the duds are to not pay for premium membership, and only talk to the guys who pay for the girls with no paid membership to have ability to contact them. But that isn't always fool proof.
If you pay for anything, such as a weekend to meet, and they say, "if I like you, I'll reimburse you." Move on.
The ones who promise opportunity to make serious money are pimps.
Or we would've never had our Vegas date and a dinner that still lingers.....I still remember the light show and of course desert...yummy.
Take Care, girl.
Bring a nice quality material gift for her. Maybe a gift card to her favorite clothing store
Fill up her gas tank, showing you will provide for her getting to you
Bring her somewhere dressy, or somewhere with quality
Tip the waitor/waitress WELL. This is a huge sign that you are generous.
Conversation- her goals in life- this may very well tell you what kind of expenses you will incur
Her living situation
Check her car out. See what she's driving.
Over time, if you like her after say the second date, start throwing her some cash and looking into other ways to be supportive of her lifestyle. Beauty makeovers, clothes, car stuff, money...
You will, through time and conversation, find out what she's looking for without really having to ask.
I don't think meeting SB's and discussing (or giving) cash, even having sex on the first date, is a good idea. If she doesn't have reviews, and you don't have references, how would she know if you are legit? Or you know she is?
If the sex is good, and you click, you are good to go. Over time if you see that she is probably going to stick around for a while, give her a lifestyle raise.
I tried looking for a SD for about a week, before I gave up out of frustration.
SBs get many, many emails from guys, 95% of whom have no pics and share very little about themselves in their profiles.
The guys want to meet up for a drink right away, to check you out.
Do I have time to meet 20 different guys for drinks, for free?
No.
Who has that amount of free time?
I think $50 for a 30min Starbucks meetup sounds good.
In a second tier city in the Midwest, I don't pay for a meet & greet, only for private time. I do offer to meet for coffee or lunch first, if they want to see if we have a connection. Only a few did; the others were quite happy to go straight to BCD. If the pix aren't sufficient for me to be confident about their looks, then I insist on a M&G first. This has saved me a few times.
While I've had time BCD with over a dozen I've only repeated with a few. While they may be pretty, many just haven't been that much fun in bed. But the ones who have... At first I thought it was an age range that was more fun (28-34) but just spent time with an early 20-something that was highly orgasmic, so ya never know