And the reason I replied to you is because you have experienced it the few times it has been real and you have been at this a long time and fucked a bazillion women and even your numbers are so low.
The mere fact that someone is buying time and services just, for me at least, makes it so NOT about real truth, but about a job well done (hopefully) and two people walking away with what they wanted out of the act
I was just reading a New York Times article (link below) on a newer type of couples therapy where the first task is to resolve sexual issues, and only then everything else. Having undergone therapy with my ex, and watched her and our therapist desperately avoid the topic of sex, I found this approach encouraging. Sexual chemistry is an atomically binding force. It's absence is repelling. So, to me, persistent sexual discord is toxic, irrespective of how harmonic a couple may be in every other relational dimension.
The article drew my thoughts to our world. Despite my somewhat defensive claim (not unfounded) to be always be sniffing around, I do prefer to attach to one woman, with others there primarily to solve scheduling conflicts, and secondarily to ward off excessive entanglement. But finding a prime partner is exceedingly difficult. Still, I do find them. Personality is at most 30%. Sexual chemistry is 70% or more. That's been true for me in this world over 7 years. And true now: I met someone in the last few months with whom sex is distracting ecstatic. Every session intensifies and deepens. No, not emotionally, unless we mean by that lustful engagement. When she's away, I fantasize about the next date and what she'll (we'll) do. It's athletic; match after match.
The NYTimes article triggered these questions: Should I ask her *why* it's good for her, and how we can keep it that way? Some would rightfully say: It's her damn role to fuck you silly, and you'll never really know if she likes it (you) or not! I dismiss this because we are all human even in the guise of client/professional, and can genuinely enjoy being with some more than others.
So yeah, like Funkadelic sang: "I Wanna Know If It's Good To You"
NYTimes article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/05/fashion/first-comes-sex-talk-with-these-renegades-of-couples-therapy.html?smprod=nytcore-ipad&smid=nytcore-ipad-share&_r=0
-- Modified on 7/4/2015 7:22:15 AM
... Tell me why I am so great. Which no good will come from at all. I see no upside in going there. Just keep enjoying the ride, and don't let any thought of you being needy or insecure start creeping into her head. I think that this kind of question has a reasonable chance of backfiring in that way.
However I think PLG is not coming at it from an ego standpoint. He seems to genuinely want to know if things are good, how to keep it that way from her perspective. The difficulty lays with if the "good" is real or not.
-- Modified on 7/4/2015 10:25:16 AM
Your last sentence is the clincher. If I think it's good, meaning she is entirely convincing, then I see no upside in putting her in an awkward position. I would rather carry on being blissfully delusional if she thinks I am a chump, or is secretly gritting her teeth.
if there was still sex in my marriage, I'd not be hobbying. I can't speak for the female perspective but for me SEX or the absence of it, is what connects the couple.
I disagree in the strongest terms with the idea that the parent loves the child more that the partner... unless the goal is to end up alone. The love is & should be different & there are times when the child's needs must take priority. But Sex is the glue that binds a couple together. The strength of the couple is the foundation of security that a child depends on.
I had a previous finacee'... we put a lock on her bedroom door for the first time. We didn't have sex while the kids were awake but we might not be decent when they woke up early in the morning. They learned to knock if the door was closed. If there was something urgent, we'd deal with it. But our time was a priority & so was theirs. It was a shame when the relationship didn't work out.
I think the WSJ piece had a lot of good points. If the sex is bad, why? I"ve never asked if it was good (at the time). But I try to be sensitive to her signals & be guided by her. I've long said, "I am the motor but she is the driver". I am even in provider settings if she will let me... some will, some won't.
I agree the question could be taken wrong... but in another sense, it is asking for what could be improved.
In my own opinion a better description would be that it's intimacy that binds a couple.
... "Was it good for you?" of a provider, or any woman. Instead, I ask her to be open with me about her likes and dislikes and let her know that I'm open to suggestions, as every woman is different. In other words, I try to focus on making the journey as pleasurable as possible, rather than focusing on the destination. It seems to work, for me.
The other day for example I was with a provider I've seen a few times and I think we have a good rapport. We were kissing, and I was lightly brushing her hair, and then I started touching her face. She gently guided my hand away from her face and told me she doesn't like having her face touched. I was glad she told me, as I know other women who like having their faces touched while kissing.
About the sex-first therapy... that's very interesting, but I'm not sure it would have worked with my SO. She is extremely uncomfortable talking about sex--with me, and especially with someone else. I think that if we had gone to a sex-first counselor, she never would have returned after the first visit. As it was, we went to more general counselors and those sessions helped our relationship immensely. Unfortunately, when I suggested that as a next step we see a counselor (female) who specializes in sex counseling, she went a few times but as soon as the conversation got into the heart of the matter, sexual behavior, she refused to go back.
I don't need an article to tell me what I want. EOM
I've never been inclined to ask her why it was good for her. For me, I judge how much she enjoyed our time together by her facial expressions (especially by the look in her eyes), her body movements and sometimes it's by her vocalization.
Like you, I discovered a lady who I have that physical spark with and have seen her several times. She isn't available often, but when she is she'll text me. We've had a great time together and we just let things flow on their own. To switch things up a little, had a threesome with one of her friends joining in the festivities. All three of us were physically exhausted at the end but both of them expressed their wanting to do this again soon.
The guy is paying me to be there. He chose me because he saw what he was attracted to. The odds that I am attracted are slim to none...this is most likely different for other hookers.
Asking me that question will illicit a stare and then this comment, a stock answer given to appease the johns ego and feelings...."I am a giver and giving you pleasure is my goal. I am here for you, so that makes it good for me". Other hookers may actually tell a john what it is that makes it good for them. Actually there was a thread down further that illuminated this with the lack of response from the ladies which in and of itself speaks volumes, but I could be wrong...lol.
In fact with some clients that I am glad to have is because they are clean, gentle and get their business done in a short amount of time. I could always say keep it short and sweet and we're good to go. That's what makes it good for me. But that might bruise an ego or two...lol
I am not a good hooker to ask this because I am all business, like to work smart not hard and cherry pick my clients to the best of my ability so that happens.
However if they give a good massage, hey I am all in that makes it good for me.
-- Modified on 7/4/2015 9:29:04 AM
I mean I would never imagine a bunch of guys who admittedly pay hookers to fuck them would be such a "touchy feely" bunch. It's really no wonder that you hookers have such little respect for the Johns you fuck. I am a John, and I am downright embarrassed at half the shit posted by my supposed "peers"
Come on guys, can't you at least pretend to have something besides estrogen flowing through your veins?
If they are going to ask such questions. Sometimes I would just love to tell it like it is.
I have no doubt that there are some connections but I think those might be rare. The rest is a job well done to keep the john and the money stream coming back.
-- Modified on 7/4/2015 10:41:42 AM
It's when she calls you, AND wants to see you with no money involved.
Until that happens, it's like you say, even at best it's still only a "good day at the office" and nothing more.
Yes, it does happen, but all this "chemistry" most of these saps keep talking about is nothing more than a "job well done" I have had hundreds of women flat out "rock my world" and with hundreds more I have thought that "they were really into it" at the moment, but the actual percentage of hookers that really felt something IMO has been somewhere around 1% at the most, I am willing to bet that most guys who have seen a hundred or less different hookers have NEVER experienced it. If I hadn't experienced it for "real" a handful of times, I too might still be deluded about the hundreds of other experiences that were just a woman doing her job really, really well.
And the reason I replied to you is because you have experienced it the few times it has been real and you have been at this a long time and fucked a bazillion women and even your numbers are so low.
The mere fact that someone is buying time and services just, for me at least, makes it so NOT about real truth, but about a job well done (hopefully) and two people walking away with what they wanted out of the act
Even if she stops charging doesn't mean it's because the sex is "so fucking great"
I am presently seeing an active provider where we talk every single day, she hasn't charged me for several months, SHE initiates most of our dates, and well over half of our conversations, I know most guys would be crowing about how in love with me she must be, but the truth of the matter is, I know that she is NOT in love with me, nor is she in awe of my sexual prowess. She just likes me, we have a good time together, and quite frankly I think she just has sex with me for free because she likes me and knows how much I like sex, AND I am "not repulsive" lol
So even if a hooker stops charging you,it is no reason to get a swelled head about how great the sex must be for the woman in the equation.
... She might be running a tab.
It has a ton to do with how the woman is treated...we work on a different level for the most part. If you treat her like a human being that is an equal partner and make her laugh you really do have it made.
The fact that you realize all this clearly has her relaxed and able to be herself and when that happens, a lot of the time the sex is actually better for the woman....and you my dear man are reaping the benefits. Well done!
when they put their shoes on and follow you out the door. I wouldn't think a lady would need to sleep on the decision to fall for a client.
This is no doubt true. I think one realistic way to get a sense of whether there is a connection, at least for johns wishing to have one *and I confess I do include myself in that group* is to see what if any otc time follows the doing of the job.
I've been in a nice situation for a while now where I pay for two hours (because that buys what I *need*) with someone I've grown really fond of, but she stays now for a minimum of ten each time. And it's all outcall so she's always free to leave. But that said, I have little doubt that if I tried to pay nothing that would be the end of it all. And I get that. I don't want to deprive someone of their living. But when someone is free to walk about the cabin and wants to stay right here with me, then we must be doing something right and when our needs are taken care of we seem to know we're with someone we *want* to be with.
We all need something out of this little game and if we didn't get it the game wouldn't exist. But that doesn't mean that once we both get what we need, that the human part can't emerge where two people actually *want* to be together.
Until that happens, it's like you say, even at best it's still only a "good day at the office" and nothing more.
Yes, it does happen, but all this "chemistry" most of these saps keep talking about is nothing more than a "job well done" I have had hundreds of women flat out "rock my world" and with hundreds more I have thought that "they were really into it" at the moment, but the actual percentage of hookers that really felt something IMO has been somewhere around 1% at the most, I am willing to bet that most guys who have seen a hundred or less different hookers have NEVER experienced it. If I hadn't experienced it for "real" a handful of times, I too might still be deluded about the hundreds of other experiences that were just a woman doing her job really, really well.
I started off similarly with my current "friend" I used to see her for a one hour "session" followed by several hours of dinner, drinks or whatever OTC. Her reason for charging me was that she met me through her "agency" and that she had to book at least "some kind" of an appointment for them.
I was still more that happy with the arrangement so we kept this up for several months up until she switched agencies, I had a conversation with her that she didn't "owe" her new agency anything as our relationship now predated the relationship with her new agency. She agreed, and I stopped paying her anything at all, but I told her that I would also accept the fact that our dates are now "sex optional" IOW if she ever just wants to go out, or hang out, but is "not in the mood" that would be fine with me. Of course, just like a civvie GF she realizes if she is constantly "Not in the mood" Shallow pig that I am, I will find someone who is. lol So far at least, it has certainly not been an issue though.
Unfortunately not enough guys post that drivel. But those that do...fun times LOL
This is just the old bell shaped curve...you've got BSU's that wear knee pads with everyone. Then you've got the misandrist hooker(s) bloviating their crap.
Fortunately most people lie well within the extreme of the curve. Otherwise "everyone" would be delusional. Which would then mean that no one is delusional.
The truth....yep. That is the truth. Some can handle it...others can't.
Come on guys, can't you at least pretend to have something besides estrogen flowing through your veins?
that if the sex is good for both partners this is a strong tie that binds. I couldn't agree more and its absence makes continued intimacy and trust and putting up with all the little cuts and scrapes of living with each other more and more difficult.
As Freud once observed: "Sex is about everything but sex."
If I've enjoyed myself, I think it shows throughout - no need to ask. And if there is any ambiguity in terms of my partner's wanting to be with me, before, during or after, I move on. I don't expect true love but I do expect someone who at best really wants to be there with me or at worst, who can convince me that's the case.
Actions speak louder than words for my purposes. To be honest, while I always try to be truthful and have found a woman or two who I believe try to do the same, I don't think the hobby puts a premium on honesty, and honestly, sometimes I think honesty can be overrated if the goal is to feel good when you get showered, dressed, and leave.
-- Modified on 7/4/2015 1:06:14 PM
I just look at what honesty from a hooker does to some men on a fuck board. Can you imagine if the same things were said to their faces? Yeah bad for business.
This is fantasy land, a Disney for adults where real life is suspended and we enter a realm where reality is placed on hold...for the most part. I will always admit there are truly sexual and emotional connections BUT these are not the norm. And even those are tenuous as if the money stops, does the action keep going??????
-- Modified on 7/4/2015 10:43:34 AM
That's a whole different world. And not one I desire to either discuss or repeat.
What I'm talking about, and explained quite clearly (I thought) was, with the right person, taking a moment out of the moment and asking about that moment. Because in the few cases of unusually intense physical chemistry I've had in P4P land, it was obvious there was more than performance happening. Or I should say: It was not performance, it was mutual pleasure; a happy coincidence to commercial prostitution. A fluke. Yes, we agreed to fuck for money but then discovered: Damn, that was hot. And no: She does not have to give up that ass to a client for free to prove she actually enjoyed fucking him in particular. All she has to do is keep it up, and if he asks out of friendly curiosity, tell him. There is always another dick slapping against her door with a few hundreds attached. Clients are fungible. And so are hookers. What's to loose, really?
I know this is something that has happened as it's happened to me. And not just those times that a professional relationship went personal and transaction-free. (And then over the cliff.)
Some posters here want to change the subject, out of self-loathing or guilt. Avoid revelation. No me. I own up, while keeping my alias. Although some can undoubtedly see through the mask. And that's okay too.
-- Modified on 7/4/2015 12:02:57 PM
I agree that in the realm of this world there can be very genuine levels of attraction even when money is involved. Just because I have not experienced it does not mean it doesn't happen and I an glad others do. I really don't care as I am perfectly happy with what I get out of this deal.
And I guess if you have felt that and feel okay with actually asking her what it is that was so good or what can "we" do to keep it that way, then do so. In this case you might get an honest answer/ I think generally though if guys start asking the hooker that question there might be a lot of blank stares and a few stock answers
You should give it a shot. It's exhilarating.
Or can't you find more johns easily?
Shit...if I have some client that pisses me off...they're terminated.
I can't believe more people aren't honest with themselves. Why be around anyone that is a pill?
This is fantasy land, a Disney for adults where real life is suspended and we enter a realm where reality is placed on hold...for the most part. I will always admit there are truly sexual and emotional connections BUT these are not the norm. And even those are tenuous as if the money stops, does the action keep going??????
-- Modified on 7/4/2015 10:43:34 AM
When the sex awesome, no need to ask the question. Does it?
-- Modified on 7/4/2015 10:12:31 AM
Don't be afraid of the answer. Embrace it. Change yourself if necessary. But don't ASSume....!
-- Modified on 7/4/2015 10:12:31 AM
It's going to take an evolutionary light year for us to ask if we're doing something wrong in bed.
I think some ask to see what crap a hooker will come up with, knowing full well the hooker is highly unlikely to tell the truth.
They have mirrors and know what they look like etc.
One come back I have used when asked if I thought the john had a nice body...do you think you have a nice body? Answer that question and you have your answer.
-- Modified on 7/5/2015 10:31:59 AM