Yes, there are guys who have to dehumanize the women they see to keep from admitting that they have to pay for sex, and then there are guys who constantly suck up to every woman they come into contact with like little puppy dogs. and then there are guys in the middle, I am quite respectful IRL and I genuinely like the vast majority of the women I see, but without the sex I wouldn't being paying them a nickel to be "nice" to me. I can flirt with any woman at any bar for free, and 90%+ are going to be "nice" to me, but 99% of them aren't ever gong to suck my dick.
So I maintain it's the sex I am paying for, not the companionship. Maybe I am just not that "deep" a person, I don't have a bit of problems finding people to talk to or to be nice to me, and since I get laid all the time due to P4P I am not "on the make" all the time. I have found over the years that women you meet socially appreciate in when a man can just be nice to her WITHOUT trying to get into her pants in the first 30 seconds after meeting with her. I find I can approach even the "unapproachable" women because I am capable of treating them all the same, without fawning over every hot woman in a futile effort to get into her pants. The manginas will NEVER get that concept, and even in P4P will suck up to every woman they come in contact with because that's just who they are.Au contraire.
Do guys who say this miss the whole bit where the woman actually leaves when you stop paying her? Or that she only shows up when you do? Beyond the blatant falsehood of this statement, isn't it even a little embarrassing to dehumanize someone to make up for your "faults"? Is it so hard to admit that you just enjoy a little strange every now and then that the dismissive attitude is a necessity? I am partially curious, partially rolling my eyes every time someone types that, so maybe someone can offer a little insight into why exactly someone needs to lie to themselves over something so seemingly simple.
So that I don't derail the poor bastards thread who got lost on SA below, would any of the beautiful ladies here like to remind the fellas what they DO pay for? I get that there's a grasp at empowerment in the above statement, but I am not sure I'm in the mood for a gentle correction today.
What are you saying........."stop paying?" What exactly is it you are trying to convey?
They do not want a LTR with someone who will want things from them (other than their money).
BUT she is right, johns pay the hookers to stay that is until he is done and guess what hookers are quite okay with pocketing the cash and leaving. I would say if they actually had the choice of staying or leaving, they would leave
Thanks
BUT she is right, johns pay the hookers to stay that is until he is done and guess what hookers are quite okay with pocketing the cash and leaving. I would say if they actually had the choice of staying or leaving, they would leave.
Not in my case, at least. I'm not paying for access to pussy. I'm confident I could get all the pussy I want, without paying for it (aside from the usual entertainment expenses like food and drink, and maybe hotel rooms).
So why do I pay? I pay because I crave the intimacy I cannot get with my SO. Notice I said "intimacy". For me, this is about much more than renting pussy. I don't want an affair, where the woman has expectations about our relationship I cannot meet. I pay professionals who give me what I need, for a given time period, and then we say goodbye. So the part about paying to avoid an LTR fits my situation.
This is also why I prefer to see providers who have a strong, loving relationship with an SO. It's safer if neither one of us is seeking an LTR.
That is very important to some and I apologize for omitting that.
-- Modified on 7/2/2015 11:41:43 AM
What the phrase says to me is: I know that you are a professional, and I am a client, and I honor that state by paying you for your time and efforts, and don't expect any more than that.
The converse is, of course, the RL scenario where a man and woman meet, feel enraptured, let nature take it's course, and perhaps remain hitched up ever after. There is no payment for time or services, (But watch out for that balloon payment later! 8o) and unless the man is a cad, there is expected to be some reciprocity between them, which we often refer to casually as "baggage"
"Don't be sexist. Chicks hate that."
and that they say this to dull the sting that comes from the harsh realization that to sleep with a hottie they HAVE to pay, but that doesn't mean that there is not a lot of truth to the saying, in as many guys do NOT want any kind of romantic entanglement due to either being already married or just not being prepared to deal with a GF or even someone they have to be "nice" to.
Women are every bit as deluded as the men are though. Look at how many women here actually believe the drivel "We are paid for time and companionship" We all know that in the overwhelming majority of the cases that is complete bullshit. You are paid for NSA sex, not for "companionship" Using it as a legal disclaimer is foolish enough, but believing your own rhetoric is quite a different matter.
I will confess, I like sex. I love being able to fuck beautiful women at will, and I even make lot of friendships along the way. How else could a "normal" guy live the life of a rockstar?
BTW, I don't like a little strange every "now and then" I like a LOT of strange ALL the time, but I am a pig, what can I say? lol but for the record I don't feel it necessary to demean the women I see, or to dehumanize them, except to occasionally bring down to earth these moon struck puppydogs that go to the other extreme and worship hookers as goddesses. There is a very happy middle ground where we don't disrespect you and we don't put you on pedestals, I like to think I live in that happy middle place.
how was it? Sex good and stimulating conversation?
The closest thing I have to a GF is a hooker, and yes the sex is good AND we enjoy each other's company TYVM.
and fly in right to you.
I don't pay her to be with me, but that doesn't change the fact that she is a hooker, and it doesn't change the fact I like her and she likes me.
Yes, I picked her up at the airport, that's what friends do, right? but no, she is not my GF.
Why can't a man and a woman both be friends, and have sex together without money or love being involved?
That's another fallacy. That "companionship" is a euphemism. No matter what she does or how she looks, are most well adjusted people going to want to do anything with someone who is miserable to be with? Is that not why most people are here to begin with? Someone just being there isn't enough, they want some enthusiasm?
I would posit that even the piggiest of whoremongers would say he would rather the woman not appear forced, scared, drugged up, or like she truly didn't want to be there. That seems majorly obvious, but then there is an entire list of things that go down from there that will ruin an appointment. Clockwatcher's, chit chatters, talking about the boyfriend... It's a mile long before you even get to any "NSA sex" and it all has to do with whether or not she is a good companion.
Sometimes, when you've been spoiled by good customer service, you forget it's there though. Unless you are trolling some reeeeallll deep dark corners, you are paying for at least some kind of companionship role play every single time you drop an envelope, whether you admit it or not. There's even a term for when that doesn't happen - "Mechanical".
I think it's debasing to everyone involved to look at it like that. You're not some animal. You care a little bit. That's why you don't JUST pay her to leave, or JUST pay her to fool around. You actually pay her for quite a lot that you don't even realize you appreciate sometimes. And too often, it seems, it's left up to the women to empathize with you, be grateful for what they have in you, and appreciate the lengths that you have gone through to hold up your end of this bargain. From my observations, the ladies as a whole are quite reflective on that. You know I can be to straightforward for most, but even I have deep, constant feelings of being grateful for this lifestyle for way more reasons than financial stability, and I know I am not alone. Maybe it's just different for the men, since anyone who tries to do the same is called a mangina, and that is why so many of you (in general, as always) come off this way?
I originally found the comment ironic but apparently I have more feelings on it than I realized, lol
With those that don't.
Most of the gals I've known in P4P are just everyday people...perhaps like you? There's nothing particularly special about them that anyone would spot in a grocery store. They sell sex instead of working for some burger joint.
The gals (those that I know), in most cases, have NO interest in getting personal with the customers (ie tricks/johns/mongers et al). They show up...do their job and leave.
The misconception that you seem to be concerned about are the guys who actually think there is something more going on. Those are the same tools that drive all of "us" crazy IRL. They think that their paid pros are really their friends. I think we've all had those types.
You've also left out the johns who pay for nothing more than a B&G. Or go to glory holes. That's a rather substantial part of P4P. As other hookers have cried about recently, some of these love lorn tools come here willing to pay for friendship. And some simply whine incessantly about it.
Don't confuse caring about another human being with respect. Just as if you were in trouble at a mall, someone like me would try and assist you. Whether you're a hooker or not is irrelevant to the aspect of being a human and caring about people.
I would posit that even the piggiest of whoremongers would say he would rather the woman not appear forced, scared, drugged up, or like she truly didn't want to be there. That seems majorly obvious, but then there is an entire list of things that go down from there that will ruin an appointment. Clockwatcher's, chit chatters, talking about the boyfriend... It's a mile long before you even get to any "NSA sex" and it all has to do with whether or not she is a good companion.
Sometimes, when you've been spoiled by good customer service, you forget it's there though. Unless you are trolling some reeeeallll deep dark corners, you are paying for at least some kind of companionship role play every single time you drop an envelope, whether you admit it or not. There's even a term for when that doesn't happen - "Mechanical".
I think it's debasing to everyone involved to look at it like that. You're not some animal. You care a little bit. That's why you don't JUST pay her to leave, or JUST pay her to fool around. You actually pay her for quite a lot that you don't even realize you appreciate sometimes. And too often, it seems, it's left up to the women to empathize with you, be grateful for what they have in you, and appreciate the lengths that you have gone through to hold up your end of this bargain. From my observations, the ladies as a whole are quite reflective on that. You know I can be to straightforward for most, but even I have deep, constant feelings of being grateful for this lifestyle for way more reasons than financial stability, and I know I am not alone. Maybe it's just different for the men, since anyone who tries to do the same is called a mangina, and that is why so many of you (in general, as always) come off this way?
I originally found the comment ironic but apparently I have more feelings on it than I realized, lol
No matter what handle you use, you will reply with any verbal diarrhea that comes to mind in order to slide the creep's favorite line in there... "We may have met".
You are one of two things:
1) Just a general creep, who gets off on the idea of making a woman wonder if she's taken enough showers today.
or
2) You are an actual creep, and actively seek to see people who don't like you, and then jerk off to the idea of paying someone to be nice to your creep ass at a later date, as if that somehow meant you won.
Thank you, for once again dribbling your misinterpretation all over a post to tell me more about yourself.
You can ask TER if I'm making this up. I'm not...when you change your alias posts that were quoted still have your old alias there...same with PM's.
Not trying to creep you out. Maybe ask a few questions on the Newbie board about this.
I also assumed you know what my handle is...guess not.
Maybe playing on this board isn't a good thing for you. You are getting more and more paranoid. You weren't always that way either.
You are one of two things:
1) Just a general creep, who gets off on the idea of making a woman wonder if she's taken enough showers today.
or
2) You are an actual creep, and actively seek to see people who don't like you, and then jerk off to the idea of paying someone to be nice to your creep ass at a later date, as if that somehow meant you won.
Thank you, for once again dribbling your misinterpretation all over a post to tell me more about yourself.
Yes, there are guys who have to dehumanize the women they see to keep from admitting that they have to pay for sex, and then there are guys who constantly suck up to every woman they come into contact with like little puppy dogs. and then there are guys in the middle, I am quite respectful IRL and I genuinely like the vast majority of the women I see, but without the sex I wouldn't being paying them a nickel to be "nice" to me. I can flirt with any woman at any bar for free, and 90%+ are going to be "nice" to me, but 99% of them aren't ever gong to suck my dick.
So I maintain it's the sex I am paying for, not the companionship.
Maybe I am just not that "deep" a person, I don't have a bit of problems finding people to talk to or to be nice to me, and since I get laid all the time due to P4P I am not "on the make" all the time. I have found over the years that women you meet socially appreciate in when a man can just be nice to her WITHOUT trying to get into her pants in the first 30 seconds after meeting with her. I find I can approach even the "unapproachable" women because I am capable of treating them all the same, without fawning over every hot woman in a futile effort to get into her pants.
The manginas will NEVER get that concept, and even in P4P will suck up to every woman they come in contact with because that's just who they are.
Most people, if they walk up to a random person and say "Hey, you having a good day?" are not going to get pepper sprayed. I mean, maybe there's some kind of epidemic happening or something, but that has not been my general impression of the world. And I don't think that has any bearing on what you pay for here. You can get sex for free, does that actually mean you're not paying for that either?
I can also concede that there are truly lost causes. Guys who are so enamored with a woman, a single woman, that they think she can do no wrong. I have yet to meet a single person that thinks an entire sex can do no wrong either here or in the real world. The "manginas" are just nicer in their communications than you are. Just because a man can say "I see her side" doesn't mean he's a white knight, and just because he comments that a woman has nice pictures doesn't mean he's a suck up, it means he's a normal person. And yet, there is this weird mentality here that these normal human reactions are somehow indicative of a weak, "puppy dog" character. Men have their entire personality judged by a "Nice Susie!" or by the appointment length they like, or simply saying they DO like to get along with the woman they're seeing, or even liking older providers. Why are those beatdowns not reserved for assholes who write fake reviews, guys who give girls reasons to screen harder, websites that extort its members, or representatives that throw you under the bus as a degenerate to get the votes he needs to waste even more of the money you're forced to pay him NOT to represent you?
IDK. I see a lot of displaced... aggression. For lack of a better word.
Defending a woman for cause, or even "sucking up" to certain women is fine. I have both defended and sucked up to certain women over my many years here, THAT does not make a man a mangina or a BSU.
What makes a man a spineless suckup only worthy of disdain are the guys with ZERO self respect who will suck up to every woman he comes into contact with and will attempt to defend every woman against every man no matter what the facts of a case may prove, THOSE are the manginas that I speak of. The Dungbeetle and Tidwit are a couple that come to mind
No, my aggression is rarely misplaced, I have plenty of aggression left over to "beatdown" for the other people you speak of. and I have PLENTY of examples of beatdowns that I have given for cause to guys that are REAL dangers to the ladies here, and not simply a bit impolite. The Dungbeetle is a great example, it was the board "assholes" who took him to task for stalking Angel not the mangina crowd, that is just one example I can think of dozens more.
Huh. Maybe you're right. Maybe I do compartmentalize to much.
Beer?
They seem to have that down pat LOL
Doing it too much...simply who one is.
You do paint life with a very broad brush. I hope that all is well again.
Beer?
And I am king of the manginas. Some are even beyond the tolerance of us manginas. Hell I told a few ladies off too.
but you can still be their king, your majesty. lol
I was thinking about this due to all the recent comments about guys who pay for overnights and longer dates because they are trying to buy friendship, they are clueless etc. etc. Although in my comments I refer to paying for sex, that is definitely not all that I seek, I really do enjoy the companionship, particularly when I am in the presence of someone who likes to use her head. I have always much preferred the company of women in general even though women are much more difficult to deal with. When I got married that ended, boom, I was married and that was the end of hanging out with women. So, in addition to a very nice supplement to my diminishing sex life at home, this activity allows me to hang out with women from time to time, it is certainly not all about the physical aspect, at least not for me.
In my year reading these boards one of the conclusions that I have come to is that many guys, even experienced hobbyists/mongers/johns/tricks, have not come to terms with the fact that they have to pay for sex. I don't care whether it is because they are ugly, married, not married, rich, poor, socially inept, afraid of commitment, in search of fun without strings, inexperienced with women, the fact is that if a guy is playing in this arena, he is doing it because he needs to do it at some level. Again, where that need arises from is immaterial, it is all the same, bottom line, we are guys who need to pay for sex on some level. I think that a failure to come to terms with that is what leads to many of the stupid posts lashing out in some way or another and demeaning women or dehumanizing them
No one, except maybe double amputees, needs to pay for sex. Everyone has a hand to hold their pocket pussy, right?
Why is the chant coming from the women always "I CHOOSE to do this!" and the men "I NEED to do this!"?
There are a lot of things you do not have control over. Way more than you do. But this? This isn't one of those things. I ask because I genuinely want to know - why do you think the men on here generally dismiss their agency, while the women embrace it?
As well many of the women I've known and chatted with would bail from hooking in a heartbeat if the chance to find the "right guy" and/or make enough to pay the rents comes along. So sorry to differ with your global assessment that "the women always I CHOOSE". Not always a real choice...and borders at times on forced servitude.
And men...shit. Some "need" this....most don't. If ALL men need to do this, you gals could and would be charging thousands of times more than you are now. It's a fairly small pool of men who P4P. Same as the women who are hookers.
Do men think about trying this? I guess we can ask around if someone wants to post some link showing some evidence of the percentage of men who pay for sex.
Why is the chant coming from the women always "I CHOOSE to do this!" and the men "I NEED to do this!"?
There are a lot of things you do not have control over. Way more than you do. But this? This isn't one of those things. I ask because I genuinely want to know - why do you think the men on here generally dismiss their agency, while the women embrace it?
Maybe you don't notice this about yourself, but it's amazing how often you'll incorporate something someone said HERE, and only attribute it to some "friend" at a later date after it's been said 100 times on the internet.
That's the problem with always having to say something. You get the attention you seek.
Try again when you're ready to discuss something, not talk about the word "always" as if you only know english instead of understanding it.
One of the wonderful things about the human condition is that there is somebody for everybody. Even the double amputee can find someone who is attracted enough in him to have sex with him. My point was not hat we need to have sex or pay for sex, it was a simple observation that if a guy is paying for sex, it is because there is some circumstance in his life, his way of being, his desires or a combination thereof that have led him to fulfill his sexual desires in that way. Sure, I could have stop having sex, the only issue is that it would seriously detract from my enjoyment of life and I would be one cranky asshole.
Why is the chant coming from the women always "I CHOOSE to do this!" and the men "I NEED to do this!"?
There are a lot of things you do not have control over. Way more than you do. But this? This isn't one of those things. I ask because I genuinely want to know - why do you think the men on here generally dismiss their agency, while the women embrace it?
And then there are the "misogynist monsters" ...
It's a term/expression like so many others used here. I'll admit it cuts out all the "fluff" and is as direct statement as you'll find used. It's not one that I'll use personally.
Your point about her leaving when the time expires is not lost. No we aren't trying to dehumanize anyone.
Who else would be so bitter?
Do guys who say this miss the whole bit where the woman actually leaves when you stop paying her? Or that she only shows up when you do? Beyond the blatant falsehood of this statement, isn't it even a little embarrassing to dehumanize someone to make up for your "faults"? Is it so hard to admit that you just enjoy a little strange every now and then that the dismissive attitude is a necessity? I am partially curious, partially rolling my eyes every time someone types that, so maybe someone can offer a little insight into why exactly someone needs to lie to themselves over something so seemingly simple.
So that I don't derail the poor bastards thread who got lost on SA below, would any of the beautiful ladies here like to remind the fellas what they DO pay for? I get that there's a grasp at empowerment in the above statement, but I am not sure I'm in the mood for a gentle correction today.
Nice looking as well. She's just had a few assholes put a damper on stuff.
What's your excuse?
Which part gave it away...that you're not a nice gal or that you're not decent looking?
Hint...when you change your alias that follows you around.
Wow! I thought it was Charlie Sheen ... Damn!
Misandry or Misanthropy ... oh well, it's a "M" word.
Where are you when the tricks get honest?
Why bother calling them out when you can do this? lol
"Hey man, you are MORE than this!"
"Stop haaaaaaating me whaaaaa!!"
Jesus H.
I don't see any problem in what when you pay me you leave. The problem is in complaining about everything, about fees, about your married miserable life. If you can't accept the fact that sex costs money, you'd better of jerking off and feeling yourself like a real man. If you paid her to leave, then that is this, you enjoyed her body, but there was no mental connection.
Sex was great, but there is nothing else to talk about. About future. So, there is no point to compare stoics to puppies. Xo
You are too funny!
Luv your sense of humor
I would never want to 'stay' in the first place, so they pay to fk, then for me to leave. In all fairness, it's easier this way, because if the guy was a boyfriend I could do what I wanted to him no matter how sinister. Guys who pay me get more respect and discretion. They can't hurt me, because they never truly had anything other than my body, but a boyfriend tends to get some of that emotional bs that comes with trying to date. Being I think more like a guy than a girl, I would never date knowing how easy this was
My thoughts exactly, well, sort of ... the first time I did P4P I thought, "This is fantastic!" I might not have ever dated if I had known that it could be so good ...
This was civilian life, but there's a guy I hooked up with over a year ago. Married dude. It was one time and he still checks in every month or so wanting to get together. Every time my answer has been no. Maybe if I paid him he would leave me alone??
Also, this situation That I describe is what guys are avoiding when they pay for sex. Clear expectations from the beginning that both parties are on board with.
there is far more to it than "paying her to leave". It might be more accurate to say I am "paying for an experience that would otherwise involve a commitment I am unwilling or unable to make" or that "I am paying for an experience with a woman who would not be interested in my willingness to commit in any case."
I'm quite sure some resent their inability to commit or the price they otherwise pay, and project that resentment in a seemingly misogynist attitude. It is absolutely wrong, and it is absolutely a human thing to do.
The thing is, it works both ways (different causes, same effect) and debates about whether guys or gals caused it first or do it more than the other are... well, pointless. It is simply, to some extent, a part of our nature.
To your other point, I'll admit I enjoy a little strange from time to time. Why not? And I appreciate it when it happens, however and wherever it happens. Except for that one drunk gal at the beach and that one really bad BP experience... 
it was from Charlie Sheen on Two and a Half Men. I love it and use it often, though I know the truth. In his case, though, I get it. With the wealth and fame, clingers would become tiring...so he goes the pay for play route.
Do guys who say this miss the whole bit where the woman actually leaves when you stop paying her? Or that she only shows up when you do? Beyond the blatant falsehood of this statement, isn't it even a little embarrassing to dehumanize someone to make up for your "faults"? Is it so hard to admit that you just enjoy a little strange every now and then that the dismissive attitude is a necessity? I am partially curious, partially rolling my eyes every time someone types that, so maybe someone can offer a little insight into why exactly someone needs to lie to themselves over something so seemingly simple.
So that I don't derail the poor bastards thread who got lost on SA below, would any of the beautiful ladies here like to remind the fellas what they DO pay for? I get that there's a grasp at empowerment in the above statement, but I am not sure I'm in the mood for a gentle correction today.
If you have a SO, you might get laid, and probably won't get head, but after you're done she is still around, nagging, expecting you to do her honey do list, you have to listen to her bullshit. With a provider you get laid, definitely do get a great blowjob or two, and the she leaves, this you pay her to leave, it's perfect.