What I am saying here really is pretty hard to disagree with.
I am not claiming that is will be easy to "stand up and be counted" just that we would not be doing anything half as hard as the gays, or even the stoners had to do to obtain their rights. I am willing to stand up and be counted, but I am having a very difficult time finding anyone else to stand with me. I am willing to be part of the fight, but it's not a one man/woman battle, if others don't join in, that's their choice, but I just hate listening to them whine about it when none of them have the guts to do even the least little thing about it, not even daring to stand up and admit that "hey I see hookers, and I am not a bad person"Gay marriage is finally recognized throughout the US. When will sex work be legal? We all know the arguments about sex traffic of the unwilling. That is like saying that since slaves were used to farm cotton, all cotton farming should be banned. I know the TV stories of sad providers who are sorry they ever got involved. I can line up more physicians than you realize who are depressed and wish they had gone to dental school instead of medical school, or lawyers who just can't wait until they can afford to retire from work they now find hateful.
There is something about sex (gay or for pay or filmed and sold as pornography) that makes people in public life a little crazy.
and signed it with them. Trafficking is a hoax they want the general public to believe.
curious.........we are all entitled to our opinion. Have been a hobbyist for quite a long time. Can not say I have ever been with a provider who was genuinely under duress. Yet.......living in Las Vegas.........I know there is an underworld........and most of their enterprises are gambling, drugs, and...........
Sounds possible that some are forced to do things they would rather not do..........
It is the same service to them which they are needed. Xo
I've gotten to know a few gals who at some point or another in their lives were trafficked in some way, however they were not that upset over it because the place they were coming from was even worse, and the trafficking experience gave them the tools and wherewithal to go on and do better.
In one case, a gal from the UK was repeatedly raped by thugs in her family and community, and so therefore adjudged to be a delinquent, and therefore sent to a Catholic nunnery for reformation. There she experienced even more of the same, only worse. She finally broke out and managed to evade capture by being taken in by a pay-for-play sex gang in London where despite being exploited by some measure she felt liberated and could enjoy life somewhat. Eventually she met up with an American who married her and let her come to the USA where despite ups and downs, she has had a better life.
One thing I think is true is that by legalizing pay-for-play sex the gals will have a much better chance of avoiding exploitation because they won't have to fear being arrested for seeking aid from the police if they are mistreated
legalizing such things in your coutry just make it decetralized, which defeats all perpose of state.
Still for every one story like that, there are a thousand of a girl being beaten, killed, chained to a bed raped repeatedly, or sold to a guy making her live in a closet.
I Personally will not be trying to find the silver linings in trafficking.
-- Modified on 6/27/2015 11:04:43 AM
Finally, gays will now know what real marriage is all about. For example: they will now fight like real married couples, after a few years of marriage they will not know what sex is anymore. The biggest one of them all is if they ever decide to go their separate ways, they would have to spend a boat load in attorney's fee and fight it out in court as to who gets what ( at least that is the case in NY ). So why should the straights have all the fun...
All vices are taboo, I am with you on legalizing sex industry, marijuana, and think of the taxes that the government would collect from them. I once talked to a local politician about marijuana being legalized in Colorado ( if it could work in NY ). His answer was " Off the record, I am all for it ". But if I ever voice my opinion in public or worst bring a bill to legalize it here in NY, I would need to find a new job asap. It would literally be political suicide...
think they have something to do with it?
Hahhaa just kidding.
No in America you have to fight (hopefully metaphorically) for what you want. The thread starter wants rights with no effort given on his part. That's fine, but stop complaining. Lol
Three points I will make:
1. The right to live like everyone else is much different from having the right to participate in a recreational activity.
2. The people who fought for gay rights fought for decades. Many, MANY people made sacrifices, were ostracized, hurt and killed and never got to see this day happen.
3. Are you willing to risk everything or complain to like minded people? You already have there vote, you have about 300 million Americans you must convince.
points! You have illustrated just how different the "hobbyist cause" is. How many of us could afford to "come out of the shadows" and take up our cause? In most cases, we must remain discreet or risk fracturing relationships.........families.........professions and much more.
Very well stated
I have even gone so far as to call out every hooker and john here to either "put up, or shut up"
and so far I think there are maybe a handful of us who are "out" If gays or stoners were as cowardly as hookers and johns, they'd still be in the closet with no rights at all, just like us, sneaking around like scared little rabbits because as a group we don't have the guts to stand up and be counted.
Some of you talk a big game, but then NEVER have the balls to "come out of the shadows"
If you don't have the balls to come out of the shadows, IMO you give up your right to whine about it.
My guess is it may be easy to condone prostitution, but not cheaters. Our society frowns on guys who cheat on their wives or loved ones. Again, just a guess a large percentage of the patrons are cheaters. Not trying to pass judgement, but as long as patrons are viewed so negatively and women as victims it will not be legal.
It does not help, that a simple google search will turn up all kinds of negative articles. That people who are caught in big news stories are married politicians with loyal, loving (at least in presentation) wives, loved ones.
Additionally, we could begin here. Show anyone that reads these boards (news organizations, etc) that the ladies are treated with respect and not viewed as a disposable Orafice. From what I have seen most guys have at least taken those steps, which is good because a place like this is the best place to start
but how about all the single guys, or the hookers themselves.
SOMEONE has to eventually stand up and be counted if there is ever going to be change
Stoners faced arrest and actual prison time for their "crime" gays risked not only getting shunned, fired, and being disowned, but actual physical violence for "coming out" Do "stoners and gays" really have more guts than hookers and johns?
Are Scoed (Mr. Mangina) and me the only two guys brave enough to admit that we fuck hookers to everyone without being afraid of their reaction?
For the record, prostitution is legal in most of the non muslim world already, saying that legalization would necessitate a Nevada style over regulated brothel environment is pure bullshit.
Is the question , I believe you should be asking. Again, I don't want to judge married guys, I contemplated marriage myself.
For a guy to be "out" as you say, I believe he would have to have some major attributes at play that are uncommon. He would have to have a very understanding spouse (be it wife, or girlfriend), that kind of understanding is extremely rare. Or be single.
He would have to be independently wealthy, or well off (after all, he has to pay these women, lol). have a work environment that does not have the ability to terminate a person for personal conduct (Again, very rare). A person who is at the mercy of their employer for income, can not have personal conduct the company feels is a danger to their business (again social perception is at play). Or own and operate their own business/company, because after all if you are the boss, no one can effect your income other than yourself.
Unless the persons only personal interactions were with women and men who participate in prostitution, your friends and family would have to be VERY understanding. Which is big because conversely your friends and family's; friends would have to be understanding as well. Because they don't want to be ostracized for being friends or related to you.
If a person has all those factors in their life, great! Be "out" be open love how you want to. But you must understand that those who only have some of those factors or none, stand to lose a lot in life
Gays were not "understood" for decades, stoners were put in PRISON, not just jail for simply toking up. Either you admit that gays and stoners had more guts than hookers and johns, or prove to me that stoners and gays faced less adversity than we do.
Just how understanding do you think the families of gay men and women were back when the first gays came out of the closet, it took tremendous courage to come out back then. A lot more than it takes for a whore monger to come "out" I have heard of any whore mongers getting beaten to death for "coming out" Can you say the same thing about gays?
For the record, I was married once, but I never saw a single hooker during those years. Personally I don't believe in cheating if you have made a promise not to, because of this I simply quit making any promises. Simple, isn't it? Also for the record, while I don't believe in cheating, I don't make moral judgments for others, some people have very good reasons for "cheating" and the rest at least think they do. lol Either way, it's not my place to support or condemn these people. Nor would I expect them to give a fuck what I think.
I agree with most of what you say. Lol
What I am saying here really is pretty hard to disagree with.
I am not claiming that is will be easy to "stand up and be counted" just that we would not be doing anything half as hard as the gays, or even the stoners had to do to obtain their rights.
I am willing to stand up and be counted, but I am having a very difficult time finding anyone else to stand with me. I am willing to be part of the fight, but it's not a one man/woman battle, if others don't join in, that's their choice, but I just hate listening to them whine about it when none of them have the guts to do even the least little thing about it, not even daring to stand up and admit that "hey I see hookers, and I am not a bad person"
....be they gender or sexual orientation based. Even in my multiple P4P hobbies I have had to fight for acceptance & recognition. No good has ever come from silence. And nothing worth fighting for ever comes easy. There will always be some kind of price to be paid. Is it worth it? That's for each person to decide for themselves. Don't know where any of this can or will go, GG.....but I'm ready to do my part.
IMHO, since I am "happily divorced" and not cheating on anyone, if I choose to live this part of my life in the shadows, what does that really say about me?
Either it means I am secretly ashamed of what I am doing, which means I should seriously reconsider my behavior, which fortunately is most definitely NOT the case. Or I suppose it means that I am going to allow society to judge me, and that I somehow NEED the approval of others and knowing I won't get it, I am willing to slink around like a thief in the night hoping to avoid the disapproval of others. Well, FUCK THAT. I am a grown ass man, not hurting a soul and I will be damned if I am going to go slinking around like some guilt ridden coward with enough self pride to stand up for himself.
I may not be able to change the world, but I will damn sure stand up and be counted, and quite frankly I don't understand why almost nobody else around here is willing to do the same.
Count this as just one more reason I like and respect you
You've got a thousand times more courage and guts than any of these so called he-men who brag in their reviews about how many O's they give their paid companions.
Or at least those willing to stand up and be counted.
I only recall ONE member using her real name as her handle.
Everyone else uses fake names to hide in the shadows. Hell, I'm 100% certain that some go to even more extreme lengths to hide from others here. LOL
Since some here are babbling that "we" should accept each other as lepers of society otherwise, then how about if everyone starts using their real names? What could possibly go wrong with any of that? Maybe with the new and enhanced version of TER it'll allow a member to post a selfie?
Either it means I am secretly ashamed of what I am doing, which means I should seriously reconsider my behavior, which fortunately is most definitely NOT the case. Or I suppose it means that I am going to allow society to judge me, and that I somehow NEED the approval of others and knowing I won't get it, I am willing to slink around like a thief in the night hoping to avoid the disapproval of others. Well, FUCK THAT. I am a grown ass man, not hurting a soul and I will be damned if I am going to go slinking around like some guilt ridden coward with enough self pride to stand up for himself.
I may not be able to change the world, but I will damn sure stand up and be counted, and quite frankly I don't understand why almost nobody else around here is willing to do the same.
Count this as just one more reason I like and respect you
You've got a thousand times more courage and guts than any of these so called he-men who brag in their reviews about how many O's they give their paid companions.but I suppose that is a topic for another thread
I don't have an issue with people using fake names, I don't even have an issue with people using fake, fake names.
I even understand why people in this little hobby of ours bitch and whine about how it's unfair that it's illegal for two consenting adults to have sex in return for money as it's an act that hurts nobody.
What I don't understand is how these whiners not only won't admit to anyone, even their best friends, that they engage in this behavior and try so desperately to remain in the shadows all the while whining about how unfair the laws are. If you want change, you have to be willing to stand up and be counted. To my best recollection, you have not been one of those whiners, have you?
I will continue to lurk in the shadows for all the reasons I stated. I'm just not complaining. Lol
and for the record THAT post I agree with 100%.
My first post was a response to the response to your post, the one made by LasVegan.
Too funny, it does appear that we are in complete agreement.
IMO it's like bitching about how lousy a POTUS or senator, or Governor you have, but then having to admit that you never even voted.
Which was "yes we agree completely" lol
but yeah, it was a pretty good conversation.
You ought to come over to the P&R board someday. Maybe some real conversation might actually break out in the middle of a "poo flinging" contest? lol
Daffy Duck is in full Bird Brain mode so getting a rational word in edgewise is almost impossible right now.
You are obviously out of the closet as a lesbian, but I don't think you are out of the closet as a hobbyist. You yourself have said that you hide this part of your life from your wife and others. Can you really stand up and be counted here?
Yes you are correct in that I do have a wife, and she is unaware of my various hobbies. Standing up for what you believe in has many risks. "Coming out" in support of our beloved hobby would probably cost me my marriage. I have lost things and people that I loved during different stages of my life due to my strong beliefs and my willingness to voice them. It sucks but sometimes there is no other way. Maybe that's selfish, or maybe that's selfless. It depends on your viewpoint, I guess.
My family doesn't approve at all. Every few months one or more of them will try to save my and/or my wife's soul. Some of my family will not speak to me any more. I lost friends because I see hookers but even more friends because I let my wife work in a legal brothel. They think I am trafficking her or something. Even here on this very board I have had multiple people insist I don't love my wife because I let her provide. Even a hooker board isn't safe from condemnation. Some of the things I read right here how some johns and sex workers feel about their sex partners is disturbing to say the least. Anyway no matter what there is costs to being out. But someone has to do it or nothing will change.
Someone must man or woman up and own their life choice. Gays did it. They suffered real loss. Change never comes free of costs, not the good kind at any rate. I am out. And I have changed minds, But I am not going to be enough of a voice to match the volume of all those who shout I am a pimp and my wife must be forced alone. Others must do so too. Thankfully some have like those that belong to various sex workers right groups like S.W.O.P.. Be counted or give financial support to groups like S.W.O.P. so at least others can be counted. Just saying someone must or nothing is going to change.
Well fuck those people, as long as you love your wife that is all that matters. Everything, everyone else is inconsequential. I wish you the best. I don't know how much more I can say than my heart goes out to you scoed.
The people who left because of my choice to embrace this lifestyle with my wife wasn't really there for me anyway. My family that tries to save my soul and that of my wife do so out of love and concern not hate. Their is a big difference. I can be who I really am and not hide. Being out is liberating. I hated the damn lies of why my wife is gone long stretches of time and home even longer ones. I don't have to worry about getting caught in a hotel with a lady that is not my wife. And I made friends in the hobby that are much better than those I lost. In the end only the fact my wife and I love each other and are content with our chosen life matter. OK I have some issues but they are more to do with me than the hobby its self.
Pretty much. I am sure not "coming out" and to be honest, I am not so sure how I feel about it being legalized. I can only figure it may drop the rates? At that point I'd go use my college degrees and leave the hobby. Don't worry, I will still come on here to bother you all bwahaha. (Coming out as an escort, I am already "out" as bisexual since I was a teenager)
Although it would be safer in cases where guys harm us and we could just call the police without fear of being on their radar... and guys could report the ones who steal or rob them. Even if it were legalized, I am still not "coming out".
I am very happy that the LGBT community now has equal rights. I just wish everyone was not discriminated against. The AA community (and others based on religion or race) are still being harassed and not given fair opportunities. This is in some cases, not in all.
As a bisexual I have been fighting for this and am happy. I am not looking to ever get married but I would still want to be able to if I found the right man or woman. I have contributed to their campaign and helped.
I hate any sort of drugs but am fine with legalizing weed and taxing them. Like I really care if they go on a munchee binge and take all the chips off the store shelves. I always will have my Slim Jims to fall back on if it came to that!
SOMEONE has to eventually stand up and be counted if there is ever going to be change
Stoners faced arrest and actual prison time for their "crime" gays risked not only getting shunned, fired, and being disowned, but actual physical violence for "coming out" Do "stoners and gays" really have more guts than hookers and johns?
Are Scoed (Mr. Mangina) and me the only two guys brave enough to admit that we fuck hookers to everyone without being afraid of their reaction?
For the record, prostitution is legal in most of the non muslim world already, saying that legalization would necessitate a Nevada style over regulated brothel environment is pure bullshit.
and I have found that price is more a factor of cost of living and what a "real" job pays a lot more than whether or not it's legal.
It seems like a hooker tends to make between 10 and 20 times the hourly rate of the average "real" job, sometimes more.
In this country for example the "average" hooker is going to make from $200 to $500 hour. Lets say the average wage in this country is around $20 hr, translating into around $40k per year we are talking ten to twenty five times the average wage, and lets keep in mind that it is illegal here. If you go to lets say Costa Rica, where the average wage is closer to $4 hr, the average hooker makes between $60 and $150 hr, or 15-40 times more than the average "real" job, In Costa Rica prostitution is perfectly legal
I won't bore you with a breakdown on every country that I visit, but trust me, the numbers are reasonably consistent. So I wouldn't worry about rates dropping to a hundred bucks an hour if the hobby ever gets legalized here.
She gets gets around $300 to $500 an hour on average. True the brothel keeps half but your figures hold up. Actually she is getting a bit better as I doubt the average wage in the town she works is $30 an hour. I don't think price will drop that much if legal give both supply and demand will go up. SO in short I agree with you GaGambler.
We need to separate decriminalization from legalization with the possibility of regulation (no religious tinged fetishes; strict dress code; no alcohol to be consumed without a special license,etc). I'm for the first but not the second.
I'm also not cheating on a wife. I don't work. And I've been outed, as have you. I also don't really give a damn that what I do is illegal. I'm not really worried about getting caught because I'm careful and, beyond that, the consequences of getting caught would not harm me much at all.
Still, I recognize that if we stormed the courthouse with placards, almost no one would follow us because most of these guys are cheaters with too much to lose. As for the gays who came out and marched, they have my admiration because the stigma of being gay in this country (especially in the Stonewall days) was (and still is) much worse than the stigma of being a whoremonger.
They deserve the equal protection under the law they have finally gotten.
Great post! Everyone in this country should have equal rights!
-- Modified on 6/27/2015 5:19:15 PM
and yes, gays do deserve what they have worked so hard to achieve . Now will they feel the same way in a few years as they learn the pain of divorce is the next burning question? lol
I also have to begrudgingly agree that a bunch of fuckers cheating on their wives don't make for a very sympathetic group to rally around. The hookers themselves, women just trying to make an honest living are a much easier demographic to root for.
And while I don't disrespect cheating tricks (there are some good reasons to stray), I have a lot more respect for hookers because it takes brass balls to do what they do.
Personally, I'm enough of a renegade to actually like living outside the law as part of a group shady characters, lol
I don't have an SO, so no problem there. But as addicted as I am to our wonderful life, I am as addicted to my work (work o Holic). While I am very confident that my job is not in any jeopardy getting arrested for a misdemeanor, bringing direct illumination and focus on myself by getting on a soap box would likely prove to be professional suicide. This would also be true for two professional committe's that I'm party to.
In my defense, I have never been one to whine about this being an unlawful sport. Sure I'd like this to be at a minimum decriminalized as it is in Canada, but I am one of those you speak of that are unwilling to stand up and be counted. An arrest for a misdemeanor, eh I can hire a lawyer to get that taken care of. Shining a spot light on myself and shouting from the rooftops, I'm not willing to take that leap, and honestly not that brave.
Speaking of the gay and lesbians success, I'm very happy and proud of what they were able to achieve in their cause. I've already had a few conversations with friends and family who are completely against they're right to marry, and I told each of those friends and family that my life is in no way different today than it was Thursday and so I for one don't really care, other than their perseverance has paid off and it seems justice has prevailed for gays and lesbians.
Marriage is bullshit as far as I'm concerned. But perhaps this could change things for husbands across the country, as now when it doesn't work out for married men to men, or women to women, the woman doesn't automatically get half of the man's stuff. So perhaps years from now, judges will not automatically drop the gavel against the men, and actually look at the entire dynamic and pass financial judgement based upon the actual facts
I have even talked to many of my states legislatures about it. It was even worse to be gay than it is for us now not that long ago. But brave gay men and women stood up and was counted despite the personal costs and things changed. If we want the stigma around sex work to end so laws can change the only voice on the topic can't be radical feminists who claim all sex work is rape and religious zealots who think sexual freedom is morally wrong be the only voices willing to be counted.
I still agree that it was tougher for gays to come out and demand equal rights. But as I thought about it there's one thing they've been able to do that we are not: openly congregate in certain areas where they will get public support from like-minded people. For example, in tolerant places like Greenwich Village, Provincetown, San Francisco and Key West. I don't think hookers and johns have any places to go like those. The best we can do is a Meet & Greet.
Still, I'll take what we've got an not complain.
Have you ever heard of a man being beaten to death for being a john?
That's what kind of pissed me off when a few of the cowards here started whining that it was "easier" for gays to come out than it would be for hookers and johns.
The problem is not that there is no place for us to openly congregate, after all how hard would it be to find a place for all four of us? That about how many people have said they would have the guts to show up. I think the makeup of the four of us is a bit ironic, We have the King of the Manginas, a lesbian, the Worlds Worst Jew, and one of the boards biggest assholes. What a motley crew if I have ever seen one. lol
and for the record, gays can meet anywhere openly today. but they had to earn the right. Of course there are some redneck places where I wouldn't advise they get caught alone after dark, but those places are growing fewer and fewer in number
But in this case I will simply agree you've made a very good point. I completely agree.
Now, for the love of dog, go fuck yourself. Do it today!
Politicians have never been known for having a spine. In fact, those two things seem to be mutually exclusive. A job that is entirely dependent on holding to "popular" opinion by its very nature doesn't encourage out of the box or controversial thinking. Which is a shame, as our country was founded by a bunch of radical, anti-establishment, free thinkers. We seem to have lost sight of that along the way.
Speaking of, I think it is ironic that we still think we are in the business of legislating morality. Did we forget this country came into being from people fleeing tyranny and religious dogma? Not to mention having a desire for a capitalism and new business opportunities?
I'm happy that same sex partners can celebrate life as a married couple now. It should have happened a while ago. We were the 21st country in the world to do it. Not really sure that's something to be proud of. As the standards bearer for human and equal rights shouldn't we have been number 1? Or at least in the top 10?
I shouldn't be so critical I suppose. We did do the right thing. Eventually. And doing the right thing eventually is certainly better than not doing the right thing at all.
I can only hope that we will follow some of the other countries that have legalized prostitution (and recreational drug use for that matter). The good news is that our thinking is changing - slowly, but it is changing. And if our country is good at one thing it is looking at ideas that work in other places and incorporating those ideas into our culture.
I just hope that we all come to the same conclusion sooner rather than later - that sex is a basic, necessary, fundamental driving force of what it is to be human. And to deny that fact is a recipe for disaster. Why not allow folks to enjoy sex as a business opportunity? Is that really such an outrageous proposition? When you remove the religious/moral stigma from it you just have two (or more lol) consenting adults enjoying each other's company. What's wrong with that?
It is the world's oldest profession after all. It's time to give it the respect it deserves
So, why not legalized sex for pay? It's hardly on the radar.
Looked at objectively, it would seem to be a no-brainer. After all, most of the western world allows it to one extent or another (even a few places in the USA), it was once legal in the US, it is oft practiced often by the most influential (i.e. affluent) people, and as vices go, probably less destructive than, say gambling, which is on a tear right now.
Yet, we seem mired in the legal process.
Could it be we are the reason for this? Do we actually like the fact that our activities are clandestine? Does that add some spice to the overall experience?
Something to ponder
Mr. Fisher - as usual you make a good point.
I guess I would sum up my quandry this way...
Can our government legalize something without being heavy handed in the regulation of it?
So far their track record hasn't been very good.
I suppose it's a fine line, isn't it?
I would like to not be arrested or fined for something I enjoy now and then. But I also wouldn't want a lot of federal/state regulations standing between my provider and I.
Something to think about for sure...
Looked at objectively, it would seem to be a no-brainer. After all, most of the western world allows it to one extent or another (even a few places in the USA), it was once legal in the US, it is oft practiced often by the most influential (i.e. affluent) people, and as vices go, probably less destructive than, say gambling, which is on a tear right now.
Yet, we seem mired in the legal process.
Could it be we are the reason for this? Do we actually like the fact that our activities are clandestine? Does that add some spice to the overall experience?
Something to ponder.
ecriminalization would be, IMO, a better way to go
Yet, we seem mired in the legal process.
Could it be we are the reason for this? Do we actually like the fact that our activities are clandestine? Does that add some spice to the overall experience?
Something to ponder.
SO WHY THIS VEHEMENT AND ONGOING PROHIBITION and stigmatization
It's a "gateway drug". Haven't you been reading the propaganda. LOL
Everything is such a slippery slope these days.
Because human beings have apparently lost the ability to reason.
Oh, and in case you missed the memo - all sex workers are being trafficked.
We must stamp out this evil sex thing right away.
Then we'll move onto our lesser problems like poverty, hunger, and war...
Yet, we seem mired in the legal process.
Could it be we are the reason for this? Do we actually like the fact that our activities are clandestine? Does that add some spice to the overall experience?
Something to ponder.
Cannabis has been proven time and again NOT physically addicting. It is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to overdose on it. And a user can NOT get uncontrollably intoxicated by it (as they easily, often and historically have with alcohol).
SO WHY THIS VEHEMENT AND ONGOING PROHIBITION and stigmatization?
Not once did I ever do this for anyone but myself.
I really think they need to concentrate on the ones who are trafficked/abused/pimped out/enslaved and leave the ones who want to do this the fuck alone. I have a right to make my own choices and as long as anyone is doing it freely no government should tell me what to do with my body.
(*Yes I know you are being sarcastic)
Everything is such a slippery slope these days.
Because human beings have apparently lost the ability to reason.
Oh, and in case you missed the memo - all sex workers are being trafficked.
We must stamp out this evil sex thing right away.
Then we'll move onto our lesser problems like poverty, hunger, and war...
Yet, we seem mired in the legal process.
Could it be we are the reason for this? Do we actually like the fact that our activities are clandestine? Does that add some spice to the overall experience?
Something to ponder.
Cannabis has been proven time and again NOT physically addicting. It is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to overdose on it. And a user can NOT get uncontrollably intoxicated by it (as they easily, often and historically have with alcohol).
SO WHY THIS VEHEMENT AND ONGOING PROHIBITION and stigmatization?
Sorry, but I don't find the fact that it is "clandestine" to add anything add all to the experience. Quite the contrary, I find all this cloak and dagger shit to be a PITA.
Do you think you can convince society that mongers and escorts were born that way and can't help it?
Society will never accept prostitution. In Nevada whorehouses where prostitution is legal nobody is using their real name or bragging about working as a prostitute or frequenting prostitutes. Legalization is irrelevant if something is not socially acceptable.
genetic dispositions for all kinds of addictive behaviors including sexual addictions, which for the sake of argument I'll freely admit to.
But whether genetic or just volitional, I don't think that legal protections of non-conforming yet
victimless and consensual behavior should be withheld. What sense does it make?
Prostitution is not completely accepted even in the many, many countries where it is completely legal, but almost everybody uses their real name in many of those countries where it is legal.
This is NOT uncharted territory where you have to speculate about how legalized/decriminalized prostitution would work. We have dozens, hundreds of templates that we can follow. The fact of the matter is, legalized prostitution already works just fine in much of the world. We could easily do the same
. . . gay marriage and legalization of pot mattered to people (for different reasons, obviously). But prostitution is disdained. It's going to be quite a while before "prostitute" becomes a politically incorrect word, and we are asked to understand why some men and women want P4P. The truth is, the adjectives most people come up with to describe what we do are entirely unflattering.
I did some grass roots fundraising and saw the change here in Cali 2 years ago. I have joked with both my gay & straight friends that we all deserve the right to be miserable in lousy marriages....and now we all can!
But in all seriousness- what a great step for equality. We should all celebrate with a cold beer, a hot broad, and then maybe a nap (It's tiring fighting the good fight!)
...it is nice to have the option if I want. I've always said at least give me the chance to say no thanks lol. And now it's so ordered in all of our 50 states as well.
I'm not looking forward to marrying a woman OR man anytime soon tho haha.
He took the old saw about saying nothing while the state hauled away first the Jews, then the Catholics, etc. -- but he changed the end. Instead of saying "when they came for me, there was no one to speak up", he said, "When they came for me, I could say nothing, because I was just as bad as they were." That seems like a powerful admission from a black man in the 1950s and 1960s who really was harassed by the authorities.
Credit Justice Kennedy and thank whoever you want for the third branch of government.
what about the fact.........that if our hobby was legal............wouldn't it fall under some type of regulation/governmental control.
From what I have heard, there is no such thing as DFK/BBBJ in a brothel.........at least that is what I have read here on TER discussion boards.
Right now.......in an "unregulated," free of governmental control hobby.........we all enjoy a variety of GFE experiences.
-- Modified on 6/27/2015 7:42:12 AM
and yes, I have most definitely had DFK and BBBJ in brothels, just not brothels here in the US.
Everyone keep pointing to the Nevada model as the only way to legalize prostitution and that simply is just NOT the fact of the matter.
and even if Government was involved, wouldn't it still be a lot better for the women to be "code violators" subject to a small fine if they didn't follow the letter of whatever the new law/s looked like, than be guilty of a crime, subject to imprisonment like it is today?
It’s been twelve years since the Supreme Court struck down the Texas sodomy laws in Lawrence v Texas, which many saw as a critical step toward legal prostitution.
Such has not been the case.
Thus far, the lower courts’ consistently narrow interpretations of Lawrence v Texas have reasoned that because the Supreme Court failed to apply strict scrutiny, it failed to establish a substantive due process right to sexual privacy beyond Lawrence’s factual scenario. Consequently, it seems unlikely that the courts will apply Lawrence or its allied cases as protecting a right to commercial sex
I also know many doctors who can't wait to retire, or have already retired. And it is almost always because of government interference, regulations, proposals, penalties, and imposed directives that they really know very little about. That is sad and it will soon be unfortunate for all of us.
I have a young relative who is gay. A few years ago, he finally spoke about it to his mom. And thus from her, it came to my attention. He always was, and still is, a most wonderful and successful young man. He is looked upon no differently by me, and almost all of his friends and family.
That part of his life is private, and his business, as our hobby is mostly private and only our business. It is NOT something to be judged, debated, governed, or least of all--regulated by "someone".
In a "world of change", I'm quite sure that the provider/client relationship will someday be looked upon as our "choice and freedom"--at least by the government. It is really none of Uncle Sam's business and goes against the basic premise of our constitution. It will just be a "choice" that everyone of us should be able to make without fear or government imposed consequences.
More coming about this on July 4th...
You need to get on SenatorBlurtsky's bandwagon. He is running for President on legalizing the hobby. He is against trafficking the unwilling and abused, but he is fighting for those of us who love what we do and are of free will. I think he is trying to bring back the death penalty for the pimps.
Anyways, his linemaker, Gambler, is trying to shake things around... bend the polls in our favor. Not great odds yet, but with your contribution of 2 million to his campaign manager Inicky, I am sure you could shake the future presidents hand! Please don't worry about the current investigations about the Senator using his campaign funds on jetsetting and escorts. It helps him think of better ways to run our great country!!!
There is something about sex (gay or for pay or filmed and sold as pornography) that makes people in public life a little crazy.
I have heard from insiders you are the at the top of the list for Vice President.
Anyways, his linemaker, Gambler, is trying to shake things around... bend the polls in our favor. Not great odds yet, but with your contribution of 2 million to his campaign manager Inicky, I am sure you could shake the future presidents hand! Please don't worry about the current investigations about the Senator using his campaign funds on jetsetting and escorts. It helps him think of better ways to run our great country!!!
There is something about sex (gay or for pay or filmed and sold as pornography) that makes people in public life a little crazy.
it was thrown out there that I could be the next Monica.
I have heard from insiders you are the at the top of the list for Vice President.
Anyways, his linemaker, Gambler, is trying to shake things around... bend the polls in our favor. Not great odds yet, but with your contribution of 2 million to his campaign manager Inicky, I am sure you could shake the future presidents hand! Please don't worry about the current investigations about the Senator using his campaign funds on jetsetting and escorts. It helps him think of better ways to run our great country!!!
There is something about sex (gay or for pay or filmed and sold as pornography) that makes people in public life a little crazy.
I could expound on this, but there are too many permutations, and I have neither the time nor inclination to analyze, since it has no effect on me. My priorities are to make as much money as I can, and to play as hard as I work...