Not sure if this is too "heavy" for this board, but I'm curious what thoughts other members here have on "human trafficking" and the attention it's getting in the media lately.
First, I think all sex work gets lumped into that bucket unfairly. But is that because the do-gooders are naive and think every provider is a victim? Or are they conceited to think providers who work independently or choose to work with an agency have been tricked or are all damaged in some way? Second, I won't deny there is a problem. I guess I'm trying to do my part by visiting only well reviewed providers and exercising caution. Both for my protection and theirs. But is there something else we in the community can do besides taking our money elsewhere? I've been fortunate to only have to walk away from a sketchy appointment once, but when a booking one thought looked good at first starts to feel not right when/how do you pull the plugSorry, I am not a provider, but, wanted to opine anyway.
I originally started to hobby by visiting KMPs in Philly & NYC. Over time, it began to weigh on my soul that all of these girls are clearly being trafficked, and who knows who many are actually being treated poorly. We are only on this planet for a short time and I don't want to be part of creating a market for trafficking and abusing women.
Ever since, I only partake in meeting with well reviewed, independent providers. There are many delightful women out there that choose to be in this business on their own volition.
To answer your question, when in doubt, just pull the plug. Trust your gut! Moving forward, focus on finding reputable, independent courtesans that match your interests.
You are a fucking idiot.
Sorry, I guess I failed at being nice.
You obviously don't know shit about trafficking or KMP's.
I would love to "enlighten" you further, but I would like to keep my posting privileges, so I will let some one else explain to you just how fucking stupid and brainwashed you are.
I originally started to hobby by visiting KMPs in Philly & NYC. Over time, it began to weigh on my soul that all of these girls are clearly being trafficked, and who knows who many are actually being treated poorly. We are only on this planet for a short time and I don't want to be part of creating a market for trafficking and abusing women.
Ever since, I only partake in meeting with well reviewed, independent providers. There are many delightful women out there that choose to be in this business on their own volition.
To answer your question, when in doubt, just pull the plug. Trust your gut! Moving forward, focus on finding reputable, independent courtesans that match your interests.
Please..........if you know something..........maybe you can provide valuable insight. Have read some of your other posts and know you are intelligent and articulate and could probably find a tactful, diplomatic way to share.
I too have been to AMPs and in some they hardly speak English. While I have never given it much thought before, this post has me wondering.
Please reconsider and please share.
Yeah that was a little harsh, but KMPs are an interesting case study. I'm sure some activists see all KMP workers as victims, but I think there's an aspect of the culture that some Westerners are missing. Those jobs are kind of driven underground in the U.S., but then compare them to maid cafes or geisha bars in Japan that are more in the open. Is it because KMPs are stigmatized here that causes a minority to be run by gangs or slum lords? Do we just avoid all of them because they give Anglophiles the willies?
Would you translate your post into formal English, please. I consider myself fluent in English and can not figure out what you said, for the life of me.
Oh, and most of our MPs are Chinese, so we lump them all together as AMPs.
Sorry I responded little late in the day and I could have chosen my words a bit more carefully. Probably a better descriptor would be WASP. Ultimately I'm referring to a spectrum where the more combinations of western, english speaking, christian traits a customer has the less one is able to understand the gender relationships, family dynamic, and business culture of Asians travelling as providers.
In no way am I passing judgement over what cultures are more harmful to women -- just that various cues to when something is going wrong would be harder to pick up on.
Also sorry I repeated the previous poster's reference to KMP, meant to broaden that to AMP but it did not immediately jump to mind.
It's far too easy for them to tell someone what is going on and LE get inside. If they have access to phones, internet and a vehicle, odds are they are not truly being forced to stay. This is a multi billion dollar a year industry where the average monger is not going to be able to partake... especially if they are underage.
To answer your question, cops can't solve the problem of real trafficking because again, the money makers are too hidden and protected to find so they focus on a crime that is the next best thing... willing and able participants of prostitution. I know a few hobbyists who have admitted to seeing underage girls, and trust me... they are being investigated as we speak, but those girls are not exactly being kidnapped and brought across the border. They are willing to do it for the money because they are in survival mode. So, they are being pimped, but not trafficked as they can leave any time they want.
It's not easy for a minor in survival mode to leave her pimp "any time" she wants.
Many of those minors you believe can leave anytime they want, end up beat up or dead when they don't go far enough.
You are looking at it from a woman's perspective, a child has an entirely different frame of mind.
Some of those young girls being abused by pedophiles paying for their time, don't know how to use the Yellow pages, much less know where to go to get help.
I know a few hobbyists who have admitted to seeing underage girls, and trust me... they are being investigated as we speak, but those girls are not exactly being kidnapped and brought across the border. They are willing to do it for the money because they are in survival mode. So, they are being pimped, but not trafficked as they can leave any time they want.
Someone close to me was forced into child porn, this was years ago, in the 60's. She didn't have a choice, it was someone trusted, anyone who knew was part of it, as was anyone who could help. There was a slightly older girl who tried to protect her...they beat her and left her for dead in front of my friend.
You have the survival mode part rite, but they stay to survive
I agree 100 percent and you did not interpret my post accurately if you think I am trying to somehow make this serious thing look innocent. I am going by the mere definition of trafficking only, not manipulation and mind control which is what you are talking about.
Remember Reefer Madness? LE has to justify their budget and connecting P4P with terrorism is too far a stretch, but human trafficking? That could work. It doesn't help that some providers will yell, "human trafficking" as a get out of jail free card either ...
To answer your question, cops can't solve the problem of real trafficking because again, the money makers are too hidden and protected to find so they focus on a crime that is the next best thing... willing and able participants of prostitution. I know a few hobbyists who have admitted to seeing underage girls, and trust me... they are being investigated as we speak, but those girls are not exactly being kidnapped and brought across the border. They are willing to do it for the money because they are in survival mode. So, they are being pimped, but not trafficked as they can leave any time they want.
I cannot tell you the number of dumbass providers who got themsevles busted, then played like they were forced to get a deal by turning in so called 'pimps.' Trafficking is a huge problem, and cops are only able to spend x amount of time and money on it so that is why many non-profit groups exist in which these women are rescued by civilians who have no clue of what they are doing, but they CARE enough to risk their lives for others.
...are doing pretty good for themselves by trafficking for the corporations who want cheap labor.
I think this is an important topic to bring up, and my answer is: If you ever for any reason suspect that the lady you are visiting has been trafficked, or is being backed by organized crime, or in any way is unable to make her own decisions as to doing this line of work, GET OUT IMMEDIATELY. Say you just got a text from your wife, and you have to go- whatever you do, don't let it come across as the lady's fault, because you don't want to make the criminals who are controlling her angry at her. Whatever you paid, just let it go. Just leave immediately and don't look back. Even if you come to your realization that the lady you are with is being forced into this right in the middle of the best sex of your life, and you just needed two more seconds to cum, PULL OUT. YOU DON'T WANT TO ACCIDENTALLY BE A PART OF SEX SLAVERY/RAPE.
for many many years. I have had some of them regularly sleep over (no strings) on their way leaving NY via Newark airport when I was living in NY. I have taken some providers out to dinner. I can never know what is really inside, but in almost every case I was dealing with independent women who seemed in charge of their own lives (except for one dear friend for whom I provided medical care for which she paid and she provided no services to me. She was strong snd independent except that the police hounded her mercilessly for years and kept trying to put the BDSM places she set up out of business.) Obviously the poor souls featured on sensational TV shows are different. Among other things I do is order medications including --when appropriate-- narcotics. I know there are other providers of these medications in completely different circumstances. We are not in the same universe. I may be blue eyed, but I can't think of the generally bright and independent women I have met in the same universe as the trafficked women featured in the horror stories just as I can not be considered in the same universe as drug pushers.
This is exactly what TER is for. If the review is good, and the lady is obviously enthusiastic about her sex work, this is a good sign that she's not being forced to do something she doesn't want to. I personally take it a step further by avoiding massage parlors and agencies, focusing on the independent women only.
Absolutely. I look for mature providers who seem to love what they do, and could jolly well be successful at other endeavors if they choose.
Donate to and support sex worker-led organizing spaces that are drawing attention to this issue and lobbying for legal reform!! Around election time this becomes a big issue and voluntary sex workers (especially sex workers of color!) suffer from the consequences of this; they are targeted and surveilled more during these times and in places with more stringent 'anti-trafficking' laws.
My awesome friend in Alaska is doing some RAD organizing work around this. Please help support her and other folx bringing public attention to these matters and trying to influence legal & political reforms! https://www.patreon.com/TaraBurns
SWOP (Sex Workers Outreach Project) is also doing great work in this area, as are the Desiree Alliance. Thank you for bringing this up!!
-- Modified on 6/12/2015 5:56:34 PM