With that and She still gives him BBFS for 100 bucks, sometimes 50, but He Buys her Diapers and Milk and Cereal and takes Her on Cross Country road Trips.
Does she help you OTC when you need help... or is it mostly you helping her OTC when she needs something? My guess is that it's the latter.
I have a few questions for both Providers & Hobbyist.
* Is it possible for a Client & Provider to be friends and still do business?
* Where do you draw the line when it comes to doing business with a client?
Those boundaries are going to be crossed.
originate from the loins?
Who is more than capable of reigning in my dick and thinking with my head. I have several sex worker and stripper friends and not once had I asked for freebies. When not paying it is totally platonic. Besides I am loyal to my wife. We have an open marriage and I do lay with sex workers but I would not betray my wife by having a real affair. My heart and my head will not allow it. Does that mean I lack desire? No, it just means I have control of my sexual lusts like many other grown ass men.
Myself included, but that wasn't what I was talking about. There are always sexual desires.
Why do you always speak from your perspective only, as if you can't view a situation from someone elses perspective?
So my posts will be from my point of view more often than not. But given most adults can control their sexual impulses, if they value and respect the sex worker they are friends with they will do so. Friends at least real friends don't push for free professional services and are respectful of their friends job. Friends don't push boundaries. We are speaking of friendship here not a SO type relationship. SO relationships are a different animal and I was not addressing that.
You've taken this conversation miles away from my original comment.
Say I go to a friend's restaurant. If I get a free drink, I'll simply thank him. I won't assume that food should also be free, or that I'll get a free drink (or ten) EVERY time I go. If I disrespected his business that way, I'd assume a few things: 1) The owner would no longer consider me a friend, and 2) That I would not be welcome back in his establishment
If he comped my entire bill, I'd be damn sure to do something really nice for him...not only that, I'd tip super-well, and sing the praises of his restaurant to anybody asking for a recommendation in a 100-mile radius, lol.
People react very differently to our business. They just tend to think we're good-time gals, and not serious businesswomen. Sometimes, they seem to even think we're not serious women. I used to get extremely offended by it...now, I'm more used to it and just let it roll off my back.
I wish more of my clients had your respectfulness and your wisdom
Now that I'm back on track.
Scoed, you don't need to be the boundary crosser in the friendship, for boundaries to be crossed.
I would no longer conciser them a friend nor would I likely continue doing business with them if it continues after I remind them of the boundaries. It is that simple. Sometimes boundaries change when both parties want them to but if one side pushes the other side has every right to walk away. Real friends do not push boundaries that make the other uncomfortable. Their is exceptions to every rule but exceptions are rare indeed.
I know true friendships with a provider are possible and not always will someone show a basic disrespect by ignoring boundaries or ignoring the needs of other. Yes some people it is not possible to be friends with in this world. Is that any different than any other part of life? Those boundaries aren't always going to be crossed. In the end that is all I am saying. My family is very close friends with two ladies I met this way. One is now retired. She needed to get out and I hired her on. Our relationship is now completely platonic now. The other I see every two months professionally but her and her husband get together and go do things like bowl, shoot pool, and or catch dinner with my wife and I every few weeks. When not in session it is totally platonic. No one has crossed the line and both friendships have lasted years. Yes sadly I did have to cut off one relationship with a lady. She kept asking for loans and got angry I said no. She didn't respect that it wasn't my job to save her from herself. She also kept hitting on my wife. Had to walk away. So yes boundaries do get crossed. That doesn't mean it will happen just that it does. That isn't different than any other relationship.
Why did you send me that vague PM without a link or any introduction or background? Why do you think that I would reply to a cold contact from a BP provider?
OTH I WOULD respond to cold contact from a BP provider so all you BP providers feel free to cold call me or for that matter sending me un-solicited offer with good "special" or "discount" (LOL
Kitty, the answer is it depends on the Client and the Provider. This is a very very fine line, and both parties would need to make sure that they discuss this. Hopefully the provider is adult enough to not intrude all the time in the client's life (possible SO/Wife), and the client is adult enough to not waste or take advantage of the provider's time (no phone calls at midnight). I really enjoy a friendship that I have with a provider, as its always great to get a text from a beautiful woman and person out of the blue. I can also say it really make our time together very relaxing. The business side can be a difficult conversation, if both parties do not communicate their way through this. I fully understand the business aspect and this has never been a problem from my side, and I do my best to be a good client (I believe I am, and welcome any provider that believes that I am not, to correct me if I have done something wrong).
This can be a fun side to the hobby, but it takes a strong individual on both sides, to make this work. As I have been saying, we should be all adults here, and this is supposed to be fun damn it!
I wish you luck and be safe.
The problem is that a client did not discuss it with me. He just assumed that we were friends with benefits and when I said my peace. He got upset. I said "Well you should have approached me differently!" And now he suddenly has a girlfriend (This he told me 1-3 weeks later when I went to email him to see if we could chat about the incident).
...but I expect that in most cases the hobbyist can begin to feel a certain sense of entitlement for the providers time & attention. It usually won't end well. I see it time and time again with strippers and their regulars. It starts off OK but soon the PL thinks that the friendship is now true love, and the whole thing becomes creepy.
Want to be friends?
Yes, but both parties have to understand where that line is. Both parties must respect each other in terms of what they do for a living, privacy and boundaries. As I have a similar relationship with a provider, they allow more but I make sure I don't cross the line. I ask if she is comfortable with something normally not allowed by a provider before and don't assume they'll say yes. She would ask me about different things outside of what she does and if I'm comfortable with it, I would fulfill the ask. As Dean_Winters and scoed notes, it comes down to boundaries and respecting it.
Just because both parties develop a more personal relationship doesn't mean the boundaries disappear. 
Good luck.
See.......He said that he never wanted to share me with anyone else. Then said that he wanted to "BE FRIENDS WITH BENEFITS".
And so he flew by that line, boundary and point of reasonable reason about fifty exits back....
Based on this, it just sounds like he does not know that line or understand that there's that boundary. And selfish -- truly mixed message
Run. Friends with benefits implies there is no money exchanging hands and that he want s no-one else to touch you..the "all to myself" thing scares the crap out of me.
His benefit............not YOURS.
I have lost some really good clients because they assumed because we were friends they no longer had to pay... some friend. I find it's easier to be friends with guys who I have seen but would not see me again, or ones I have not seen at all.
professional fuck buddies at that which is the way it should be. I have a few girls whom I keep in touch with in very short mails just to see how they are doing and do consider them to be like friends but do not and would not want that to cross over the line as both guys and girls can get to be clingy and even jealous sometimes.
Your comment about clients thinking that once a friendship is established that compensation is no longer required is interesting.
Obviously this is human nature. But it is not logical within the context of the hobby. One must ask the question - how did we become friends? We became friends through a business arrangement.
As you can see from my reviews, I like a little variety. However, I have been seeing a certain provider for 10+ years. As you might guess, we have become friends. At the same time, we have never crossed the provider/client line. I respect her privacy as much as she respects my privacy.
It is not that difficult to respect the provider/client line.
It might not be difficult for 'you' but it is for many others, as the story I told plays out the same way over and over again. Whether it's the provider wanting more or the client, things rarely work out the way they should. I don't know what your definition of 'friends' is in this situation, but I have very few local suitors so for me it's not a big deal to keep in touch with peeps who are miles away. It's not like we are talking on the phone for hours or going to the movies every weekend.
Obviously this is human nature. But it is not logical within the context of the hobby. One must ask the question - how did we become friends? We became friends through a business arrangement.
As you can see from my reviews, I like a little variety. However, I have been seeing a certain provider for 10+ years. As you might guess, we have become friends. At the same time, we have never crossed the provider/client line. I respect her privacy as much as she respects my privacy.
It is not that difficult to respect the provider/clieInt line.
From a client's POV I believe you're mistaken when you think you lost some good clients because you became friends.
Those guys probably were not going to continue seeing you anyway! They were probably thinking you got hooked on them and was going to give them freebie civilian sex. It's not your fault though because you were just trying to "hook" them in with some very good acting. It was worth a try you had nothing to lose because those guys already lost interest in paying for it.
When I became "friend" with my favs I actually paid a little bit more not less. That is, in exchange for special favor and consideration not generally available to the regular clients. All this was automatically understood did not have to be mentioned. That is the basis for real, genuine friendship where the mantra is "you scratch my back, I scratch yours".
Trust me... I am no actress when it comes to stuff like that. It was not about just not paying for it for free sex either, but becoming possessive on top of it. Married men falling for a hooker syndrome, if you get my meaning. They did not want to pay by the date any longer, is what I should have said. Most of the situations that played out this way involved client turning into sugar daddy aka friend, not client simply wanting free sex.
Dear Ms. Rayne:
As a seasoned adult companionship provider, who has a concentration in male behaviorial dynamics,it is obvious that you are intuitive when picking up certain nuances that men have during a time when they believe their could be a change in the nature of a relationship. With this said, what are five traits that you tend to look for with those who would be regulars? Also what are certain trends that tend to set your antenae with respect to neediness? Also when would you know when to terminate or to take a reprieve from a relationship and what is the nature that you would do it in?.
I have been seeing provider for the past 3 years and we have become quite fond of one-another - I consider us to be friends. That being said, friends respect one-another and their wishes and limitations.
I am just as happy, caring, thoughtful and loving with my clients as I am with my friends. BUT, to have a client become a "friend" and still want benefits, well that probably won't be happening! LOL! I'll take it on a case by case basis, but I personally don't see "friends with benefits" right now, so I reserve my energy for my clients. It really wouldn't make sense for me. Friend zone is cool for some clients, but not all, and it depends on what the boundaries are. Lots of trust to put into someone too. Scary!
being your client sounds awesome!!!!!!
that are supposed to be doing this to get away from a bad relationship/marriage end up wanting another relationship with a provider.
I wonder if the majority of guys that fall for a provider are/were married. That is, does it happen more often with married or single men?
Personally, the escort/client relationship makes it EASIER to NOT "fall in love" than it would be with a civvie woman.
One is now my BFF, in fact, but we no longer play.
The other is someone who I do still occasionally see as a client. I've known both men for over a decade now.
What do you mean by the second question? Doing some sort of other business, like hiring his company for something or other? Sorry but it is unclear to me
I have such a relationship with 3 providers now. Been having fun all three for over a year. I see them on a rotational basis since I see one a week rotation comes around quickly and I don’t get bored with seeing the same person over and over.
Both Man and the woman must be mature and no shenanigans.
Been doing this about 18 months and no issues and all fun and good sex.
I'm friends with the provider I'm seeing. I still see her for my playtime fun. The playtime is just as awesome as the first time I saw her. Money is never an issue with her and I. I help her OTC when she needs help. Not sure where this is going. But so far it's been great.
Stop paying her and see what happens.
Does she help you OTC when you need help... or is it mostly you helping her OTC when she needs something? My guess is that it's the latter
With that and She still gives him BBFS for 100 bucks, sometimes 50, but He Buys her Diapers and Milk and Cereal and takes Her on Cross Country road Trips.
Does she help you OTC when you need help... or is it mostly you helping her OTC when she needs something? My guess is that it's the latter.
Add STD check up $200
So that's $350 approximately. Still not bad if she's hot. lol
...is he bringing home to her that ROGM is going to catch from His Provider?
...refresh your memory:
She has kids that you never met.
She has a baby daddy who doesn't know what she "does for Money." It "would be a Bad Scene if he ever found out what she really does for Money."
Take a wild guess "where this is going."
To the market:
Gotta get those diapers and milk!
What's not to like about life?
WAY back when I used to hobby a lot and due to a career i have had from time to time I used to occasionally be able to help out a provider and due to the very private nature of the situations friendships would form. I never tried to take advantage of the situation and I never asked to barter services. Was I ever rewarded for my efforts, absolutely, but it was never a condition. Just one good person helping another.
Keep it that way and you're good.
and that includes being palsy-walsy friends.
But in truth, how many real friends does a person ever have anyways? The question I think is assuming something that may not really even exist.
Trying to define a real friend is not so easy if you think about it.
Here's as good a definition as I think you'll ever find:
A friend is someone who will come down and throw your bail if you get arrested.
A true friend, however, will be in the next cell to yours.
* Yes -been there done that!
* The line is drawn where both your comfort zones are met. That is to say it is really up to the two parties to set the boundaries. Different partnerships/friendships can have different and unique arrangements. Or another word, negotiable
Having a friend is awesome and special. Having a business relationship kind of sucks sometimes, but it's often necessary.
I really have no idea where to "draw the line" when doing business, but it seems to me that your friendship should not enter into that part of the equation.
I think it's only possible to be friends and do business when you "know" each other fairly well, and are both honest and trustworthy. If you find all three of those, then you should have nothing to worry about.
And believe it or not, that situation is not that uncommon.
But you can't lose fact of the "fantasy" and the "NSA". Also never lose fact that this is a business, and it's all about the money. That being said, you can still build up a very strong bond with one another. But never cross the line trying to get all "hugged up" and go falling in love.
I'm really close with one provider and we are friends. I know where she lives (she's invited me over for incalls at her place) and I know her real name (First and last). She decided to tell me all of those things. I'd rather not know that stuff, but if she's going to trust anyone, I'm the guy to trust. I always tell her that if I only met her under different circumstances, we would probably be dating right now. We still have a client/provider relationship and it's great!
Like I said, you can absolutely be friends, just keep it true to the business.
I got into this for the variety and NSA. And I like to keep it that way. Even though some of you women providing sure know how to work it good. And I adore the shit out of you for being so amazing during my time with you
I'm really close with one provider and we are friends. I know where she lives (she's invited me over for incalls at her place) and I know her real name (First and last). She decided to tell me all of those things. I'd rather not know that stuff, but if she's going to trust anyone, I'm the guy to trust. I always tell her that if I only met her under different circumstances, we would probably be dating right now. We still have a client/provider relationship and it's great!
Like I said, you can absolutely be friends, just keep it true to the business.
I got into this for the variety and NSA. And I like to keep it that way. Even though some of you women providing sure know how to work it good. And I adore the shit out of you for being so amazing during my time with you
I never expected or wanted to know about personal aspects of the provider I'm seeing. After seeing her for a few months she just told me about her life. I didn't ask her to tell me. She just did it on her own choice. I still see her once a week for our playtime. I even take her to the grocery store every now and then. Sometimes to dinner. She spent her whole working day with me on my birthday recently. And last year too. She's pretty awesome. Some of these providers just need someone to talk to. Someone to listen to them. I adore her and listen to her every word when I see her. I've spent alot of OTC (Off The Clock) time with her. Has the client/provider line been breached with me? I'd say I've gone way over the line. It's been and still alot of fun.
In one case, I am "friends" with a gal... & certainly enjoy relaxed time limits... knowing if she gets a call, I have to bolt. about 6 years. There is always a donationon her dresser when I leave.
In another case, ended after 6 years, we had session time & a meal & chat OTC... but there was always a donation on her dresser when I left. Ended because she went off on me one time too many.
Kind of reminds me of a dynamic I have with a client I've been seeing for 6+ years. He drove me crazy in the beginning, and I was a BRAT/PRINCESS. I have no clue why he stayed with me, but I'm sure glad that he did...and I hope that, these days, I make him equally glad he put up with me
I guess it kind of took us a while...lots of trial and error... to get to that place.
I have a select few ladies I see and we have something more than the "wham bam thank you mam" relationship. They are my friends.a couple I no longer see in their profession are still friends and we meet or communicate frequently. One lady who has retired and we correspond frequently. She needed some help with transportation which I gave her and we spontaneously ended up in the sack for some fun and games.
I am friends with a few providers. However, I am careful to respect boundaries.
1. Never ask for or expect freebies
2. Don't email or text them to death.
3. be an actual friend: listen, support encourage, be honest, etc..
Commonsense would say no. Sure a client and provider can be surrogate friends for when there aren't an real friends around. I'm only being realistic.
I can't answer the second question.
* Is it possible for a Client & Provider to be friends and still do business?
* Where do you draw the line when it comes to doing business with a client?
There are very few clients I don't like. With very few exceptions, I enjoy spending time with all of them during dates, and I'd probably enjoy spending time with them outside the hobby as well. There are even a few clients with whom I feel a very cool and unusual connection (some of these men, I have gotten to know very well. Some I only see occasionally). In a way, I can be more honest with clients than I'd be with someone in my personal life. There are fewer pretenses, fewer lies.
However, as others have said, becoming too close can be a very quick and easy way to ruin a good thing. Where do you draw the line, indeed? If you start offering too many concessions, he'll start to think that he's no longer considered a client...then what?
Take this example: Guy has seen girl a few times, and they get along very well together. Guy books a 4-hour date. A few days before the appointment, girl has a schedule conflict (not another appt, something in her personal life), and can only give him three hours. To make up for the disappointment, she offers that the last 'hour' can be lunch, OTC, and on her. They have fun out of the bedroom, as well. Guy sends girl an email: 'hey, found this online..so funny!!' She answers, he replies. Soon. he's emailing her every week...then every day...sometimes emailing/texting multiple times per day. Her motivation for responding is a mixture of two things: 1) She's humoring him, trying to keep him as a loyal client, and 2) She kind of enjoys his emails, though she finds their frequency a bit overwhelming. She worries sometimes that he's getting too clingy, but he still pays her for sessions (she gives him some OTC as well). Then, suddenly, one day, he decides that things have changed. In his view, they have obviously blown away the provider/client aspect of their relationship, and the next step is to 'move on.' This very scenario happened to me during my first months of being independent. And before you say I was leading him on (I honestly never meant to), he was a 30+ years older than me, married, a veteran hobbyist, a TER reviewer, and an occasional board poster. Things just got muddled.
Except in very unusual cases, it's better to respect the boundaries and just enjoy the time together for what it is. Or, if OTC becomes a habit, the terms and limits should be clear (for instance: an overnight can be done for the usual rate, but the girl will spend the entire afternoon prior and after showing him around the city, OTC - I've done that).
is frequency of appointments i.e., this problem would not have occurred if you only saw each other 3-4 times in 2 years. I just read a post where the guy saw her 7 times in ONE month!
I'm willing to bet escorts would prefer less frequency with longer visits than seeing a client 3 times a month (provided she has enough clients to keep her business viable)
The other major factor is the donation. Money is what draws the boundary line in the escort/client relationship. When it is removed you are changing his expectations.
Once every few weeks. Longer dates, with some OTC as we got to know each other better.
Sometimes you just can't win. Damned if you pal around with your clients, damned if you don't.
These days, if a guy leaves because I won't act like his BFF or FWB...I figure that he'll leave one way or the other anyway, and better if he leaves sooner, before his feelings get hurt and/or he really stresses me out
After every session I ask myself if it's worth it. I do enjoy OTC time and treat it like I would in any other profession. Where you'd meet up for lunch or dinner to catch up outside of the normal setting, it's refreshing. It's not typical and some seem to think that trying to stay way over their allotted time will end in more OTC time. That's not the way it works and sadly I do have a life that gets in the way of a client's intended goals of sucking up entirely too much time they didn't schedule in advance for. If I go out to eat with you after session it's because I'm for one hungry, and two I enjoy your company and just so happen to not have anything else going on right after. It's rare but it does happen. Trying to manipulate my schedule to fit your needs only pisses me off if I see it.
I don't struggle to maintain relationships that are stressful, I have too much good stuff going on to worry about a few bills. Plenty are worth it, why worry with those that aren't. Let someone who hasn't got it yet deal with them. When it becomes work, you're doing it wrong. My passion is your pleasure, chores I'll relegate to someone else. We can't pick all our battles but why continually fight the same ones?
Sometimes you just can't win. Damned if you pal around with your clients, damned if you don't.
These days, if a guy leaves because I won't act like his BFF or FWB...I figure that he'll leave one way or the other anyway, and better if he leaves sooner, before his feelings get hurt and/or he really stresses me out.
My atf is also a very close friend. But I insist on paying her full rate when I'm seeing her as a provider and I use her hobby name. When we do something as friends (never of a sexual nature), I use her real name. I think it helps that we both have committed relationships.
-- Modified on 5/20/2015 10:18:18 AM
I've met several wonderful ladies that I would be lucky to be friends with. For me, the real question is about paying for time not paying for sex. Time is money for these ladies. After becoming friends, it is often difficult to determine when they are on the clock or off.
If I give a lift to the airport and we stop for lunch, the assumption is she is off the clock. The next week, if I ask her to lunch is it on the clock or not? It may be black and white for the more experienced among us but not for me.
I would never expect a friendship to transition to free sex.
Good topic
* Is it possible for a Client & Provider to be friends and still do business?
* Where do you draw the line when it comes to doing business with a client?
YES !!!
Of COURSE !!!
Darling Kitty !!
Men are just BEST friends woman may have!!
Clients??
Just take nice men to be your clients..
Sweet hearts are HERE
And I gave you MY word
I am sure many women will vote for that here as well -
In world outside of hobby men do treat women not so nice as they do treat us here..
how we may not love them?
And if we love ..( even for 2 hours) how they can be not friends??
They do care then about you.. and are loyal clients ..
We share about wives, kids, work related , human related issues
And those gentlemen still gave you roses - true friend would do:
Yes to your first question. I have multiple provider friends where the so called boundaries far exceed what's considered normal in the hobby.
Can't answer the second question, since it clearly is aimed towards other providers' opinions.
the caveat is that the friendship is for 2-3 hours at a time. I have never asked for and would never expect OTC time. I have had a half hour or a little more of OTC time on the end of a session, but it was hang out time, no action.
This is, what it is. I feel it's a perfect arrangement, why fuck with perfection. As has been described in here many times in the past by providers, if you're paying you're getting her "on" best and if you're not you shouldn't expect her to be "on". I'd much rather pay her to be "on", that is after all what I'm there for.
Let's remember exactly what this is, it's an arrangement. I want the fantasy, a good to great provider is a good to great actress, fuck, lie to me and make me believe the lie. Leave me with rubber band legs, rock my world, leave me talking to myself, that's what I'm looking for. My envelope is always right, I'm well groomed and I treat my ladies with respect, I'd imagine that's what a provider wants. It's a fucking win/win.
Should we be friendly to one another? Yes, and I'm friendly with my hair stylist, my waitress and every other person that provides me a service but I by no means expect my hairstylist or my waitress to hang out with me, email with me or text with me after we're done.
Should I expect a provider to email with me or text with me on a regular basis? No. I have had a few outstanding providers who have emailed me "on the side" if you will. It's appreciated and it meant a lot, just a few moments and a little effort by her have ensured that I'll be a return client. But, it's never expected. Let's keep this arrangement in perspective, let's not take advantage of each other, it is what it is and what it is, is very simple.
Can we be friends during our time together? Yes, I hope so, and then its over till next time.
and you click with some more than others. But actual friends? The kind who you hang out with, go to movies with, have dinner with, who stay up late talking, and help each other move? And then pay for sex? No, I don't think most providers want that type of relationship with their gentlemen callers. It can, and has happened, but it never lasts. One could argue that my explanation is the definition of marriage.
I have a particular friend right now that I am working that out with. Here are the rules we have set.
1. I book time as pay for play, she gives me a discount as a reliable regular.
2. we sometimes have OTC time after our booked time is over ( we go to dinner, or some other activity like hiking, or go for a run)
3. If she gets the opportunity for a booking when we have planned some OTC time, I respect that, and don't giver her shit or ANY PRESSURE AT ALL about it.
for example I am flying up to meet her this weekend. We have scheduled an overnight and an outing the following day. After the outing is over, we may still hang out, but if she gets a booking , she is going to take it, and I'll be on my own.
* Is it possible for a Client & Provider to be friends and still do business?
* Where do you draw the line when it comes to doing business with a client?
It has never worked out for me....it gets weird ... And then that horrible question when you have a date and go out and he asks how much should he pay you....there is no way to go from provider to girlfriend or friends w benefits ... The roles are already to defined and it's not easy to start over
I believe it depends entirely upon the openness of each...........and both clearly articulating their expectations.
Of course, first a genuine level of trust must be established.