After years of a troubled, sexless marriage, I told my wife I'd only stay married if we had an open marriage. She said she assumed that meant I'd see hookers (she knew I'd done it before we got married) and I told her yes. She said she wasn't sure she could handle that, and it turned out she couldn't. So we got divorced. And, yes, I am happy. And we are still friends.
I have been hobbying for maybe 10 years with an increasing frequency and intensity. I have been less and less cautious and sometimes, I think it's almost like I want to get caught. I love my wife of thirty years but we have had no intimacy for at least the past 9 years. I don't even get any affection from our cat. The only affection I get is from numerous encounters with providers here. I very much enjoy the intimacy that multi-hour and overnight visits give me. I don't think I would be involved in the hobby if I had not lost that at home.
As I'm heading out on a four day trip with my ATF, I'm asking myself what would I do if I get caught. I know what it feels like to be hurt and I do not want to do that to my wife. I do want to stay married, but I do crave intimacy in the final quarter of my life. I fear I will never experience intimacy again with my wife no matter what, so I hobby.
-- Modified on 4/8/2015 1:41:19 AM
If she has any interest in catching you-you will be caught-so be prepared to deny everything-admit nothing !!
A lot of men I spend time with tell me the same thing. They come to me more for the intimacy than just for sex. They crave love and attention they don't get at home. I'm happy I can be there for them. However, if you get caught, you will more than likely loose your ability to hobby for a while. You may have to be on a shorter leash with the wife or if you get divorced, you may not be able to afford to hobby.
I would suggest you try harder not to get caught. Trust me, don't invite trouble into your life. No reason to have your world come crashing down for no good reason. Enjoy the ladies you spend time with and enjoy the final quarter of your life. You only live once, relax and have fun.
After the first time, I promised to be a good boy. That lasted about 3 months.
After the second time my wife branded me as incorrigible, and she was correct. She actually abided my hobbying for a couple of years, but then decided she didn't want me in her life and divorced me.
On balance I'd say it was a win/win; but that's my situation and may not be yours.
To you all I can say is: Don't get caught.
Be very careful and take every precaution there is that you read about on here.
This all happened to me because TER had not yet been invented. Had it been, things would have gone differently I'm sure.
And I'm not saying this to gloat---nor am I necessarily putting down marriage "per se." What I AM putting down is tired institutions and dogma---as hippy-dippy as this sounds I think polyamory is the most natural, beautiful way!! Why does love and intimacy have to be confined to one person? (For those who say that's the way "God" mandated it I can honestly only shake my head in sympathy for you---because you've been hoodwinked like so many others!! All that shit is just a way to control you and keep you "obedient" and "in your place"---YUCK---HOW FUCKING AWFUL!!)
The hippies might have had questionable bathing practices---but they were right about a lot of things!! (PS--Don't confuse polyamory with promiscuity---they aren't the same---even though people try to lump them together as a way to discredit the lifestyle!!)
I agree 100%!
Many here can attest to the fact that partnerships can totally work with people who are not naturally monogamous (which I would venture to say is about 90% of the population). I don't know why more people haven't realized that the statistics for marriages lasting are not a great proof that this tired old institution works. At least not the way it is currently practiced. I think any couple considering a lifetime together should write into their plan a little clause that gives them permission to outsource physical relations should one partner decide to not continue that activity.
I am post-TER hobbyist
I think you're saying that in today's world it is easier not to get caught?
I'm in the same position as the OP try to be careful, don't want to be caught, want to stay married.
I think the same thing every other week when I need intimacy. I am not sure what I would do but I do know I would deny everything and hope my SO of 40+ years would let me have my clothes before she threw me out.
and maybe getting caught might not be as bad as you think? I am a VERY happily divorced man, and I can't imagine living my life as you live yours. Sneaking around looking for even the slightest intimacy is no way for a man to live.
I can only speak for myself, and I know it's human nature to "project" but I couldn't be happier, and my decision to get divorced was the best decision I ever made in my life, and YES it was my decision to get divorced, I never did this while married, so getting caught was never part of my equation.
I am not trying to make your decision for you, only you can decide for yourself, but would getting caught and starting over really be worse than living your life as a lie???
I would hate to get caught, and you are quite right--it may not be as bad as he thinks. There are a LOT of worse things that can happen in our lives. It certainly wouldn't be the end of the world or even have to be the end of the marriage. It's always difficult, if not impossible, to "project" the consequences of our decisions; and it's great that things went well for you. Yes, everyone and every situation is unique and thus we do have to decide for ourselves. Often times things do not go in the direction we expect, so getting opinions and feedback is always a good thing.
"Sneaking around looking for even the slightest intimacy is no way for a man to live." is quite true, but like Mr. Spock once said: "We all have our own self-made purgatories, mine can be no worse than someone elses." On the other hand, perhaps the sneaking around adds to the excitement for some people.
Why do you love her? My dad's marriage is like yours, and I honestly wish that he would leave her. I can't have a healthy relationship with him because she drags him down so much.
I'm sure the shit would hit the fan, but after that all settles out, it would be best to be pretty much honest about the whole situation.
Realize that by "getting caught" after ten years does not suddenly make you a different person. You still have all of the qualities that kept the two of married for thirty years. Nobody is perfect, everyone has some faults and weaknesses. Any spouse has to realize that and either accept those faults or try to, not necessarily change them, but more like steer around them as best they can. Or, help steer you around them.
And it sounds like she is not doing that about your need for intimacy. So, if you do get caught, and maybe some part of you does want that to happen so that you and your wife can work on that steering together. Perhaps she already knows what is going on and just deals with it somehow in her own way in order to placate you or to avoid a confrontation.
Cheating is certainly not an insignificant fault, but a spouse can have many many worse vices. Such as an anger problem, drinking problem, meanness, controlling, laziness or sloppyness. Those all will debilitate a relationship rather quickly. Cheating, some say, can even help a marriage. How? I would offer that it can prevent or at least minimize the previously mentioned six vices.
So an understanding, forgiving, and decent person would still see you as what you are and have been--not someone suddenly transformed into a vile, pathetic individual. And then she would have to either try to help you improve by knowing that you cannot do it without, at minimum, her help or simply give up and move on. And the easy solution is usually never the best solution--and that goes for both of you.
And I find it interesting that you say the lack of intimacy with your wife began about a year after you started hobbying.
..and he told his wife.... What the fuck do you expect. You haven't fucked me in 10 years. That shut her up. And she stayed.
.......... there will be zero intimacy in the relationship. I would not hang around for long in such a relationship, it would make me so miserable, but I guess to each their own. I've found both men and women are guilty of showing their partners a lack of intimacy because I have heard the same complaints from women. I'm forever thankful I never fell into the marriage trap and have been happily single for a very long time. Friends always wonder why I am always smiling and have not aged one iota in all these years. My secret sauce which they will never know is the hobby.
-- Modified on 4/8/2015 10:09:01 AM
After years of a troubled, sexless marriage, I told my wife I'd only stay married if we had an open marriage. She said she assumed that meant I'd see hookers (she knew I'd done it before we got married) and I told her yes. She said she wasn't sure she could handle that, and it turned out she couldn't. So we got divorced. And, yes, I am happy. And we are still friends.
I doubt it was all sunshine, rainbows and lollipops, at first...
but, what do you think the chances are that you + ex would be friends, now, if she had caught you fkn around, vs you being upfront about what you needed---doing it---and, then she deciding she didn't feel ok about that, and opting out
I think we'd still be friends, but it's much less certain. But I'm glad it worked out the way it did. She wasn't predatory in the divorce and the result is I'm pretty generous in helping her more than I'm legally required to. In fact, I just agreed to help her pay for a flight to Rome in a month.
People continually drive themselves insane trying to be "everything" to their SOs. Sexual desire is built on novelty and mystery, which is extremely hard to maintain over the long term. I wouldn't be surprised if your wife suspects but prefers to look the other way, probably because she appreciates the value of the other parts of your marriage (kids, family, lifestyle, shared history and experiences).
If you want out, then get out. Otherwise, you can respect her by keeping your dalliances under wraps and not throwing it in her face. There are worse arrangements than "don't ask, don't tell."
I don't get that at all. Intimacy is a two way street. Sharing life's challenges as well as your dreams and goals. Accepting someone at both their best and worst. Taking on life and see what happens. I don't see how you can achieve it with someone you are paying to spend time with. Would they even be talking to you if it wasn't for the envelope?
I can understand compensating someone to pay attention to you. Laugh at your bad jokes, stroke your ego etc. Make you feel like you are the most important person world for a set period of time. Toss in some physical stuff. I don't see how that is intimacy.
Guess I must be lucky. When I see a provider I'm looking for a physical release. If she can carry on a conversation, even better.
Good luck
The "lifetime of shared experience" aspect of intimacy is what he has with his wife. With a good rapport and a substantial amount of time spent together, one can certainly experience a deep intimacy with a provider.
It may seem like an odd concept to you (and others), but I understand where the OP is coming from. Maybe the easiest way to explain it is whether you are looking for an encounter or an experience.
and it was worth every penny. Every time I hear a married guy bitch, whine or complain about how badly his life sucks, I think to myself how I most definitely made the right choice some 20 years ago.
She got totally screwed by her shitbag husband. She gave up WAY more than her attorney wanted her to, but she just wanted out of the marriage, and wanted to have her kids without his interference. She just didn't care about anything else and still says it was worth every damn penny!
She had, and still has, a great job, all of the money, but just wanted out. She had to pay him a LOT, but she got control of her kids and has never regretted it since! That's been almost 30 years ago. She is still some in some debt because of it, but now has a wonderful husband and life goes on.
I give her a lot of credit. She didn't bitch, whine, or complain. Just made a choice, acted, and never looked back.
"away time" to play. Not sure how you can manage to get away for an overnight let alone a 4-day trip. Or, how you can put away the funds to finance these longer encounters.
And that is fucking perfect, that situation will not change.
I question the OP stating that he loves his wife of 30 years and there hasn't been any intimacy for 9 years, how is that possible? Perhaps I'm just "that shallow", I wouldn't/couldn't argue with anyone who would say I am that shallow. But no intimacy? Women, even a stupid woman, know how men are, and if she isn't satisfying him, he'll find someone who will.
NO intimacy for 9 years seems totally weird.
Maybe it happens, but how can you possibly consider staying in that kind of relationship?
Perhaps she all ready knows and chooses too remain quiet-she may not be interested in having only 'Half The Stuff" so she goes along with it in a silent-smug manner -Maybe-not necessarily in this case-but maybe the Ol' Boy she hooked up with 30 years ago no longer turns her on-maybe she gets off on her own-or maybe someone else is getting her off !! Things to consider !!
[. But no intimacy? Women, even a stupid woman, know how men are, and if she isn't satisfying him, he'll find someone who will.
As I'm heading out on a four day trip with my ATF, I'm asking myself what would I do if I get caught. I know what it feels like to be hurt and I do not want to do that to my wife. I do want to stay married, but I do crave intimacy in the final quarter of my life. I fear I will never experience intimacy again with my wife no matter what, so I hobby.
-- Modified on 4/8/2015 1:41:19 AM
I would lose my wife, my money, my retirement, the respect of my friends and family and be royally fucked (and not in a good way). Why in the hell would you skirt the edge and TRY to get caught? If you want a divorce, get one, don't let her get ammo first though! Move to a state that is fair with splitting things equitably. NY sucks for guys. Maybe California (50/50). Dunno.
Personally, my wife is my best friend, a good mom for my kids, great in bed when she tries and I'd miss her too much if I divorced her.
Granted, she's heavy (5'3 and 185), floppy pouch flap stomach from the kids, doesn't take care of herself, wear makeup, style her hair nor dress up for me. She's also notoriously nonsexual most of the month. We have sex about once or twice a month. Thats not enough for me. I can overlook the weight (I'm not skinny either). I can overlook the pouch/flap, because barring surgery there's nothing she can do about it. But the lack of sex makes me nuts especially when I KNOW she's a tiger in the sack when she wants to (and gives the absolute BEST BJ's (about 2-4 times a year). So, I see providers to keep me going during the dry spells and enjoy her when her mood and fancy finally kick in. But I definitely wouldn't want to get caught.
Like most states, it's a "no fault" divorce state and she gets 50% at best. I did better than that in both my divorces, which were fairly amicable. Yes, there were some bruised feelings but in each case we both knew it was more important to remain friends than fight over every last dime.
It's equitable distribution. Less rigid and I think better than community property. Now California is the one that keeps me scratching my head.
-- Modified on 4/8/2015 5:47:14 PM
If there's a lack of intimacy has the topic been discussed with the other party? If yes what are the responses? I'm just curious. I'm happily single and don't see marriage in my future for many reasons.
As I'm heading out on a four day trip with my ATF, I'm asking myself what would I do if I get caught. I know what it feels like to be hurt and I do not want to do that to my wife. I do want to stay married, but I do crave intimacy in the final quarter of my life. I fear I will never experience intimacy again with my wife no matter what, so I hobby.
-- Modified on 4/8/2015 1:41:19 AM
What I find even more interesting, is what I see take place OUTSIDE of this industry. In my civy life I see a bunch of bored housewives desperate for the guys around here. When I go to my gym, there will be 100 cars in the parking lot and I'll walk in and only 20 people are exercising, maybe 30, the rest are sitting or standing in the lounge area, flirting and hitting on one another.
I've seen way too many times, men will think their wives have no sex drive, then later find out, their wives are having affairs.Also women often turn the other cheek and prefer to live in a "bubble" because they don't WANT TO KNOW. As slick as you men think you are, you really aren't. Your wives are with you for YEARS, they know you like the back of their hand. MOST of them know when you're lying, or when something is suspicious.
Some men are really slick and women never see it coming, I hand it to them. If you badly want to get caught, then just put it out there but Id be careful. You never know what you'll end up regretting.
Don’t become careless with your phone and all other correspondence. If you use shared devices and share user name and password, it is only time.
You should set up your own user name and password, if you are sharing electronic devices. It is more dangerous not to do so, because all of them sync to a cloud and anyone logging into your electronic device can see everything.
If you are getting divorced?
Don't do that
So-the bottom line is admit nothing at all-even if caught in the living room doggie style bare back-admit nothing-it will end in divorce ultimately-so it is important that you will not receive absolution-so admit nothing-resist the urge and just Shut The F..K Up !!!! Let her attorney ask the questions and have yours answer the questions !!!
Don't do that.
have you ever considered having an honest conversation with your wife about how you feel about the loss of intimacy? Not a convo about having more sex with her.....but being completely candid about how the lack of sex impacts you, and what you feel your only alternative is?
Women (and men, for that matter) care a lot less about sex than they do about being lied to.
Being honest with her will, at least, allow her to feel like she has some choice about how the two of you handle this, together. If she just 'catches' you---especially if she clues in that you're already been at this for 10 yrs....game over
Some of the responses above assume us older guys are just failing to have a nice lil ole discussion with the missus about how we miss sex. Done it, didn't help. Maybe some of you guys don't know (yet) that lots of women go through physical changes that make it impossible for them to have sex, or completely wipe out their desire. (Please, don't tell me about hormone replacement therapy. It is not a panacea, and can be dangerous in some circumstances.)
Sadly, I think that if I get caught, the wife will be hurt to the core ESPECIALLY because she will be mortified by the perception that she is not a real woman cause she can't / won't have sex and a beautiful younger woman gave me what I needed. I very much DO NOT want to get caught. But I take the risk for the precise reason that you stated, that I crave intimacy in the final quarter of my life.
Some responses imply that we should just get a divorce. Not that easy in later life, when your lives are intertwined, when your retirement assets are intertwined, and when you might very well become even more lonely should you divorce. In some respects, getting divorced can be more selfish than not.
Spot On ! Did not miss a thing ! Post menopause-many women become so dry that even with various hormone therapies, lubrication, etc....couldn't drive a nail in it with a jack hammer ! Still can achieve orgasm-can give terrific head-but ain't no dick goin' in that pussy no matter what and it is more frustrating for the woman than it is for the guy !
I'm so glad I'm not the only one who feels the same thing about our hobby.
I've been married for a few years, on my 2nd marriage now, and I've been a hobbyist for several years as well.
For me, it's more about variety. I grew up dating multiple women over the years and once I got married, i still needed the variety of beautiful women.
Yes, I love my wife and we're both still intimate with each other. For me it's more about just about having the ability to be with other women who are beautiful and have a lot of sex appeal and not worry as much as if I was cheating with a woman that I was actually dating behind my wifes back. As a hobbyist, you're in and you're out. Leave the emotions at the door, enjoy the moments you spend with various beautiful women, and leave it at that. Shower off and go on with your day to day life. Your wife will always be there, if you're careful and cautious. Just enjoy the time with the lovely ladies from our hobby and try not to stress. Life is too short. Be there for your family and when you have the time treat yourself to a sexy lady from TER.
Good sex is good for the heart. Great sex is good for the soul.