TER General Board

Oh holy crap. That's awful. eomsad_smile
Lea_ThePrivAsst See my TER Reviews 1091 reads
posted


END OF MESSAGE

89Springer2774 reads

A few weeks ago I posted a thread in the Newbie forum asking if a provider with whom I'd had a spat would or should still give me a good reference, as I'd been clean, safe, etc. One of our well-liked providers here on GD replied that referrals are not an obligation, but a courtesy. She said that it's a nice thing for her to do for me, but not required.

I didn't give it much thought until the last day or so. It seems to me that referrals are a courtesy that providers extend to each other, and not to us. Without referrals, they'd have to just use name, employment (maybe) or other basic information, but wouldn't have any feedback from other providers about the guy. He could be Jack the Ripper, but the provider wouldn't know until he walked in the door.

As for them being a courtesy for the customers, I don't see that. They seem to be more of a pain in the ass. We often have to disclose very personal information, and we have to rely on providers we've seen before saying we're okay. If  one is using a bad reference as a way of getting back at a guy for a low score, he won't know. For the customers, it would be easier if providers didn't require references at all.  

What say you

Say you got into an argument about the influence of the surrealism movement on today's advertising design, both SM and mainstream. I would expect her response to go like, "Yeah, I fucked him. He's okay."  

OTOH, if the spat was about your showing up six minutes before the appointment start time instead of sitting in your car in 20 below weather and waiting, and you and her really got heated, she might not respond to the request for a reference.

And if the spat was over whether or not her dog should be allowed to lie on the bed and growl all through the BJ, look out! We can only imagine the fallout from that!

How long will we surrealists have to endure the brickbats tossed so blithely  our way without expressing our angst?

I've already walked away from more than one provider on account of this issue and sadly, I'll probably have to do so again.

Sorry to make such a fuss about this but this is an issue that affects me greatly.  My whole family was driven out of our neighborhood by realists back in the 1950s, and our Dalis and Eschers laid to waste.

I return you now to your regularly scheduled program.



-- Modified on 1/13/2015 12:47:01 PM

Probably just as well.

Here's a much better example of current Dadaism, with a healthy dose of surrealism to boot:

skarphedin817 reads

How does one achieve eternal bliss? By saying dada. How does one become famous? By saying dada. With a noble gesture and delicate propriety. Till one goes crazy. Till one loses consciousness. How can one get rid of everything that smacks of journalism, worms, everything nice and right, blinkered, moralistic, europeanised, enervated? By saying dada. Dada is the world soul, dada is the pawnshop. Dada is the world's best lily-milk soap. Dada Mr Rubiner, dada Mr Korrodi. Dada Mr Anastasius Lilienstein. In plain language: the hospitality of the Swiss is something to be profoundly appreciated. And in questions of aesthetics the key is quality.  

- 1916 Dadaist Manifesto - Hugo Ball

skarphedin945 reads

In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey
Butane in my veins and I'm out to cut the junkie
With the plastic eyeballs, spray paint the vegetables
Dog food stalls with the beefcake pantyhose

Kill the headlights and put it in neutral
Stock car flamin' with a loser in the cruise control
Baby's in Reno with the Vitamin D
Got a couple of couches, sleep on the love seat

Someone came in sayin' I'm insane to complain
About a shotgun wedding and a stain on my shirt
Don't believe everything that you breathe
You get a parking violation and a maggot on your sleeve

So shave your face with some mace in the dark
Savin' all your food stamps and burnin' down the trailer park
Yo, cut it

Soy un perdedor
I'm a loser, baby, so why don't you kill me?
(Double barrel buckshot)
Soy un perdedor
I'm a loser baby, so why don't you kill me?

Forces of evil on a bozo nightmare
Ban all the music with a phony gas chamber
'Cause one's got a weasel and the other's got a flag
One's on the pole, shove the other in a bag

With the rerun shows and the cocaine nose-job
The daytime crap of the folksinger slob
He hung himself with a guitar string
A slab of turkey neck and it's hangin' from a pigeon wing

You can't write if you can't relate
Trade the cash for the beef, for the body, for the hate
And my time is a piece of wax fallin' on a termite
That's chokin' on the splinters

Soy un perdedor
I'm a loser baby, so why don't you kill me?
(Get crazy with the cheese whiz)
Soy un perdedor
I'm a loser baby, so why don't you kill me?
(Drive-by body pierce)

Yo, bring it on down

I'm a driver, I'm a winner
Things are gonna change, I can feel it

Soy un perdedor
I'm a loser baby, so why don't you kill me?
(I can't believe you)
Soy un perdedor
I'm a loser baby, so why don't you kill me?

Soy un perdedor
I'm a loser baby, so why don't you kill me?
(Sprechen sie Deutsche, baby)
Soy un perdedor
I'm a loser, baby, so why don't you kill me?
(Know what I'm sayin'?)

I'm on YOUR side! Surrealism means everything to me! I don't think I could get out of the hammock every morning if the work was any less surreal! It's fresher than it's ever been or ever will be! I'm just saying that if you look at TV commercials and the blogs on social media that the influence is so pronounced that your mind has to skip a beat every time it inhales some whatyoumaycallit.

You didn't link your previous post so I'm not sure what the spat was about.  

A referral is given not an obligation. If you had a spat, of any kind, I'd assume she wouldn't give one.  

Sometimes, at the beginning of the journey, you may need to see someone that might not be your first choice to get that referral. You could also signup for something like P411, that might make it easier though some ladies still want more information. After you get a few okays, you can pretty much "shop" anywhere, most ladies/agencies will take P411 okays as a referral or contact those providers directly.  

 
 

Posted By: 89Springer
A few weeks ago I posted a thread in the Newbie forum asking if a provider with whom I'd had a spat would or should still give me a good reference, as I'd been clean, safe, etc. One of our well-liked providers here on GD replied that referrals are not an obligation, but a courtesy. She said that it's a nice thing for her to do for me, but not required.  
   
 I didn't give it much thought until the last day or so. It seems to me that referrals are a courtesy that providers extend to each other, and not to us. Without referrals, they'd have to just use name, employment (maybe) or other basic information, but wouldn't have any feedback from other providers about the guy. He could be Jack the Ripper, but the provider wouldn't know until he walked in the door.  
   
 As for them being a courtesy for the customers, I don't see that. They seem to be more of a pain in the ass. We often have to disclose very personal information, and we have to rely on providers we've seen before saying we're okay. If  one is using a bad reference as a way of getting back at a guy for a low score, he won't know. For the customers, it would be easier if providers didn't require references at all.  
   
 What say you?  
   
   
 

And yeah, I still maintain that that's the case.  

I'll break it down for you. A reference involves three people: the client (C), the provider he's already seen (P1), and the provider he wants to see (P2). For P2, a reference benefits her since it gives her that extra assurance. For C, a positive reference means a chance to see P2. In terms of pure self-interest, there is little to no benefit for P1. By providing that reference, P1 is doing them both a favor. She's taking time (minimal as it may be) out of her day to vouch for a guy who may not even be a repeat customer. Again, no real benefit for her, so yeah...it's a courtesy.  

Personally, I don't put a whole lot of stock into references, as every lady has a different idea of what makes a good/safe client. Furthermore, a guy may behave like an angel with one provider, only to pull some serious douchebaggery on the next one.  

That said, I'll always give a reference because it's the nice thing to do and I truly don't mind firing off a quick email to vouch for someone. But if I were to wake up tomorrow morning and say "fuck this, I'm not giving references ever again," that'd be my prerogative. Like I said, it's a courtesy, not an obligation.

89Springer1136 reads

Yes, it's a courtesy that you extend to the inquiring provider. But if no providers gave referrals, how would you know anything about any potential customer? Don't you think the other ladies are doing you a favor by providing referrals, even if the guy was nice to her but a douche with you? What if she said he was a douche? Would you still book him?

And, again, it would not be a courtesy for the client if no providers required referrals. They are truly a pain in the ass. Right now I'm concerned about a provider I saw a week ago. At the end of the session she said she'd give me good referrals. In my review I gave her an 8/9. She emailed me to ask if I would give her a 9/9 to 10/10. I didn't change my review. Maybe she's pissed, and maybe that will have an influence on her giving me a referral. Having to be concerned about that is a pain in the ass.

As for the questions about the nature of the spat, it's not anything bad on me, but the subject of the spat has no bearing on my question about references. You guys are just looking for a juicy story. ;)

-- Modified on 1/13/2015 9:13:51 AM

It's a COURTESY. No one has to give a referral if they don't want to. Plain and simple.  

Maybe I just don't understand what your question is. Are you arguing that it should be an obligation? I'm confused.  

Posted By: 89Springer
Yes, it's a courtesy that you extend to the inquiring provider. But if no providers gave referrals, how would you know anything about any potential customer? Don't you think the other ladies are doing you a favor by providing referrals, even if the guy was nice to her but a douche with you? What if she said he was a douche? Would you still book him?  
   
 And, again, it would not be a courtesy for the client if no providers required referrals. They are truly a pain in the ass. Right now I'm concerned about a provider I saw a week ago. At the end of the session she said she'd give me good referrals. In my review I gave her an 8/9. She emailed me to ask if I would give her a 9/9 to 10/10. I didn't change my review. Maybe she's pissed, and maybe that will have an influence on her giving me a referral. Having to be concerned about that is a pain in the ass.  
   
 As for the questions about the nature of the spat, it's not anything bad on me, but the subject of the spat has no bearing on my question about references. You guys are just looking for a juicy story. ;)

-- Modified on 1/13/2015 9:13:51 AM

89Springer1152 reads

Tobi, I'm saying that it's a courtesy that providers extend to each other. It's only a courtesy to the guys because nearly every provider requires these referrals that other providers give them as a courtesy to each other. For the guys it's really something they need because of all this, and they hope that the providers will do it.  

On your own website you say the following:

"(If you do not have at least two references from reputable companions who you have seen within the last six months, please be prepared to provide me with additional information to verify your identity.)

(I do not accept references from agencies or from companions without a reputable standing.)"

So, you require references not just from providers, but from reputable providers or agencies. What if the reputable providers or agencies didn't give you anything on a guy? Would you book him anyway?

-- Modified on 1/13/2015 10:58:33 AM

-- Modified on 1/13/2015 12:43:07 PM

...of sweating over a woman who may not give you the reference you want. But I get it, you're very particular in your tastes, and the women you want to see all have high barriers for entry. In that case, suck it up and go see a few newbie-friendly ladies and build up a new list of references. You can knock it out in one of your hobby weekends - just schedule a couple of short visits in a row.

89Springer701 reads

I make an appointment with a 10/10 rated, well-reviewed provider. Minimal wardrobe request (bra, panties, heels). She comes to the door in bathrobe with wet hair and no makeup. We have a dog in the bed with us.

I make an appointment for a four-hour lunch date with a 9/9 rated touring provider with tons of good reviews. We set the date and time, and I never hear from her, and get no replies to emails until after the date. She forgot.

I make an appointment with a provider I've seen before. I drive down to her city on Saturday, stay at my hotel, wait for her text on Sunday. 8:30 am she texts me to say "see you at noon!" 20 minutes later she texts me to say "if my assistant calls, don't answer". 19 minutes after that she texts me to say she has her period and her grandmother is dying.

I make an appointment with a 9/9 to 9/10 provider with tons of excellent reviews who's visiting a city near me.  We set a day and time. She cancels her tour because she didn't get enough bookings, but fails to contact me to let me know.

I make an appointment with a provider I've seen before. I send her an email two days before our meeting to confirm, as I again have to travel a day to see her the next day. Nothing back. Later I get an email saying she forgot to reply. She asks if we can do a later appointment, but I've already canceled hotel and dog sitter.

I make an appointment with a 9/9 to 9/10 provider with tons of excellent reviews. She's on time, but she's about ten years older than her profile, and much heavier. Doesn't look like her photos. She has a double chin. Still, she performs well, so I give her a 8/9 score. She wants a 9/9 to 10/10. I say no. She's pissed.  

In all of the above, can you see where I fucked something up?

 
-- Modified on 1/13/2015 2:25:25 PM

-- Modified on 1/13/2015 2:56:40 PM

Again, it's a courtesy, not an obligation.  

And I think you're misinterpreting that blurb from my website. I don't require references at all. I'll just take references in lieu of employment info. There have been several times when a guy's references haven't gotten back to me for whatever reason. In those cases, it's not a big deal since I'm just as content with additional personal info. If a lady doesn't respond to a reference request, I don't get bent out of shape about it because she really doesn't owe me anything. Furthermore, I don't punish the guy for it by not seeing him (he can't control whether or not she'll respond). I just carry on with screening and make my decision once that's done. World keeps a'spinnin'.  

Posted By: 89Springer
Tobi, I'm saying that it's a courtesy that providers extend to each other. It's only a courtesy to the guys because nearly every provider requires these referrals that other providers give them as a courtesy to each other. For the guys it's really something they need because of all this, and they hope that the providers will do it.  
   
 On your own website you say the following:  
   
 "(If you do not have at least two references from reputable companions who you have seen within the last six months, please be prepared to provide me with additional information to verify your identity.)  
   
 (I do not accept references from agencies or from companions without a reputable standing.)"  
   
 So, you require references not just from providers, but from reputable providers or agencies. What if the reputable providers or agencies didn't give you anything on a guy? Would you book him anyway?  
   
 -- Modified on 1/13/2015 10:58:33 AM

-- Modified on 1/13/2015 12:43:07 PM

89Springer962 reads

Thanks for clarifying that. I didn't realize you did either reference or employment.

The providers I've been booking (or trying to book) have been reference-only. An agency used employment in lieu of a reference who didn't respond, but that was just that one time.

Ladies don't randomly hand out references.  Unless you (the client) specifically give Miss Wants-a-10/10 as a reference, no prospective playmate is going to contact her about you.

I think a provider vouching for the client is a favor to him as well as to the other provider.  If no one gave you a good reference, then there would be a very limited number of ladies who would see you.  
To address a couple other of your questions and points: if a provider said negative things about a client, no I would not see him.  That's kind of the point of references lol.
   And a provider is only going to give you a good reference if she thinks you're a good guy.  And if you had a spat, it depends on if the spat changed her opinion of you. If it was a spat that made her think you are a douche, then her referral will reflect that.  
   As for wondering wether or not a provider will give a good or bad ref based on review scores: it totally depends. If that's the only thing she didn't like, then she might tell the other lady that the guy is a good client but to beware because he is harsh with review scores. If there were also other things that she didn't think were too cool about him, then she'll say that.
A good reference is honest.  References are very important in protecting us mentally and from rude guys and boundary pushers as well as just for basic safety. If there was no reference system, then it would make it a lot easier for douche-y guys to hobby, because they could act like a dick with as many ladies they wanted to, and all they'd have to do is give their work info and act nice over the phone.
I don't want to make clients go thru a whole lot of trouble, but I'm not going to see him unless I feel comfortable, because that would just be dumb.

Posted By: 89Springer
Yes, it's a courtesy that you extend to the inquiring provider. But if no providers gave referrals, how would you know anything about any potential customer? Don't you think the other ladies are doing you a favor by providing referrals, even if the guy was nice to her but a douche with you? What if she said he was a douche? Would you still book him?  
   
 And, again, it would not be a courtesy for the client if no providers required referrals. They are truly a pain in the ass. Right now I'm concerned about a provider I saw a week ago. At the end of the session she said she'd give me good referrals. In my review I gave her an 8/9. She emailed me to ask if I would give her a 9/9 to 10/10. I didn't change my review. Maybe she's pissed, and maybe that will have an influence on her giving me a referral. Having to be concerned about that is a pain in the ass.  
   
 As for the questions about the nature of the spat, it's not anything bad on me, but the subject of the spat has no bearing on my question about references. You guys are just looking for a juicy story. ;)

-- Modified on 1/13/2015 9:13:51 AM

-- Modified on 1/13/2015 1:34:19 PM

-- Modified on 1/13/2015 1:40:30 PM

JackDunphy1033 reads

Personally,  if I were a chick, I would give references more weight IF several of the gals told me they had been in his presence on numerous occasions and he acted like a total gent each and every time, rather than just a one off meet up.

Of course, they would have to be gals that have excellent reps in the biz as well.

Conversely,  as a hobbyist, I would give LESS credence to a dude who was telling me to see a girl that he has seen numerous times b/c he might be "into her" and shilling for her a bit.

But that would also be predicated on how well I knew him and how credible his info has been to me in the past.  

Good post Tobster.

I thought using those types of nicknames have to be earned.

Have you earned this right?

Posted By: JackDunphy
Personally,  if I were a chick, I would give references more weight IF several of the gals told me they had been in his presence on numerous occasions and he acted like a total gent each and every time, rather than just a one off meet up.  
   
 Of course, they would have to be gals that have excellent reps in the biz as well.  
   
 Conversely,  as a hobbyist, I would give LESS credence to a dude who was telling me to see a girl that he has seen numerous times b/c he might be "into her" and shilling for her a bit.  
   
 But that would also be predicated on how well I knew him and how credible his info has been to me in the past.  
   
 Good post Tobster.

Ever since she admitted to me she wanted to fully submit and be my sex slave in session on that island themed thread YOU started, my pets names for her have increased by a factor of 10. lol

I am fitting her for that collar and leash as we speak. lol

She just told me that  LOL

Better play that idol  ;)

Posted By: JackDunphy
Ever since she admitted to me she wanted to fully submit and be my sex slave in session on that island themed thread YOU started, my pets names for her have increased by a factor of 10. lol  
   
 I am fitting her for that collar and leash as we speak. lol

I have been working out my pimp hand for awhile now and with that reinforced leather collar I just bought her (she'll reimburse me of course) I don't see her going anywhere without my permission. ;)

Posted By: JackDunphy
I have been working out my pimp hand for awhile now and with that reinforced leather collar I just bought her (she'll reimburse me of course) I don't see her going anywhere without my permission. ;)

Sooo...YouWanna852 reads

Careful. If you don't grovel, he'll label you BSC.

Cause ALL hookers are BSC if they don't like JokeDumbly.

JackDunphy1043 reads

I have never called Tobi BSC and wouldn't think to. No clue where you came up with that. Actually Tobi and I get along just fine and is one of many here who "get it."

And what does "groveling" have anything to do with BSC? I dont expect any hooker here to "grovel" to me but if they did, that wouldn't be any indication at all of them being BSC. Needy maybe or low self esteem possibly but BSC? Oh God no.  

Do you realize you have real vocabulary issues? You don't know the meaning of "misogyny" (nor can you spell it) and now you are showing your ignorance of the word "crazy."

I have labeled 5 or 6 gals here BSC out of many hundreds but keep intentionally distorting my words.

But I guess if you didn't have distortion, you wouldn't have anything at all. :

GaGambler848 reads

Which actually is starting to describe SYW.

Or maybe she thinks that Tobi need protecting? Yeah right, that's the ticket. lol

He says it should be "Tobester."  But even that's the masculine way to spell it.  So technically, Conan says it should be "Tobestress."
Stop trying to be a BSU, that's someone else's job, LOL!
You're welcome.

-- Modified on 1/13/2015 5:08:59 PM

If a lady places great emphasis on referrals herself, then for that lady to provide referrals is more than a mere courtesy, she owes that to her community of like-minded colleagues.    

Posted By: Tobi Telford
And yeah, I still maintain that that's the case.  
   
 I'll break it down for you. A reference involves three people: the client (C), the provider he's already seen (P1), and the provider he wants to see (P2). For P2, a reference benefits her since it gives her that extra assurance. For C, a positive reference means a chance to see P2. In terms of pure self-interest, there is little to no benefit for P1. By providing that reference, P1 is doing them both a favor. She's taking time (minimal as it may be) out of her day to vouch for a guy who may not even be a repeat customer. Again, no real benefit for her, so yeah...it's a courtesy.  
   
 Personally, I don't put a whole lot of stock into references, as every lady has a different idea of what makes a good/safe client. Furthermore, a guy may behave like an angel with one provider, only to pull some serious douchebaggery on the next one.  
   
 That said, I'll always give a reference because it's the nice thing to do and I truly don't mind firing off a quick email to vouch for someone. But if I were to wake up tomorrow morning and say "fuck this, I'm not giving references ever again," that'd be my prerogative. Like I said, it's a courtesy, not an obligation.

Ok, so having stated this....do you ask for references? And do you ask P1's of the world to give theirs of the C that wants to see you?

Aren'tyou just really asking the P2's "is this guy going to strangle me" or "does he have BO"....that sort of 'need to know stuff?

Posted By: MrTwister
Ok, so having stated this....do you ask for references? And do you ask P1's of the world to give theirs of the C that wants to see you?  
   
 Aren'tyou just really asking the P2's "is this guy going to strangle me" or "does he have BO"....that sort of 'need to know stuff?
I have no idea what you just said.

Do you ask other providers to vouch for your client-wannabe? You admit it's hardly worth the effort since the guy could go jekyl and hyde on you....but you probably still check guys references, right

Maybe I'm trying to look behind the curtain too much. I'm curious what that email or text looks like.

Is there a standard way of asking once you know the ropes? "Hey this guy named so-and-so wants a date. Is he ok?" And "yeah no worries" is the response you need? Or....are there more questions we have no idea you're asking included in there?  

I'm just prying. But I'm sincerely curious.  

(Not trying to bait you into an "aha" moment.)

Perhaps some rely on them more than others, but without them (including forms such as the "okays" on P411) I can't imagine how this would work.  It would certainly be a MUCH smaller world, comprised of the most rigorous screening ladies and only clents willing to give up personal info to each lady (yes, I'm ignoring the lowest end ladies who do no screening at all).

So sure, they can be labeled as a "courtesy", but lots of helpful things are.  Guys leaving reviews are doing a courtesy - not required.  Guys NOT leaving a review (if the lady requests he not, for whatever reason), are doing a courtesy to her, as after a date we can certainly review if we please.

Also, think about this, if 75% or 90% of the ladies never gave references - how would that affect the efficiency of this ecosystem?  Well, let's just say things would suck.  While on the otherhand it really doesn't matter much if the vast majority of guys don't leave reviews (as is the case).  So all "courtesies" are not equal in their impact if not provided.  So be nice ladies and give references (almost sounds like a PSA)

First of all, I'm not giving out any personal information just to get a session. Secondly, I'm one of the good guys. Clean, safe, sane, dependable, math savvy, and seriously want to play. My sole means of progressing from lady to lady, and back again, is by word of mouth, or keyboard. Therefore, a reference becomes more than just a courtesy for me. It is a necessity, almost mandatory. Should a lady not take my request to reference as seriously as I've taken my session, I'm going to wonder about her connectivity. Of course, a lack of connectivity isn't conducive to any type of continuing relationship. Ladies, this is a business you're running. Within the hierarchy of all the great businesses, is good customer service simply a courtesy, or is it mandatory?  

That being said, I don't take my requests for references lightly. I do understand that it's you who is not getting the party....the money. So whenever possible, I try to repay the 'courtesy' with a session. Now that might not happen for awhile depending on many factors, but trust me, I do remember the ladies who help me out. Being a dependable gentleman, I often get requests from other gentlemen on recommendations. Now who am I going to recommend, a connective lady, or a non connective lady? And lastly, since I'm a participant on these boards, a lady who has extended me a kindness, might very well receive a shout out right here. Once again, you can trust that when I see a forum shout out from another gentleman on any given lady, I sit up and take notice. In many instances, especially from gentlemen with whom I have commonalities, that's as good as a review.  

However, the one thing I don't do is ask for a reference from a lady with whom I've had a falling out. That's not good etiquette. If she were to extend me that favor in some type of emergency, that would be a courtesy.

89Springer1020 reads

However, the one thing I don't do is ask for a reference from a lady with whom I've had a falling out.
I get PM's from guys asking questions about the provider with whom I had the spat (it's not the first time). I have nothing but good things to say about her.  On her regional forum, if someone has posted a question such as "who has the best (fill in the blank)", I'll reply with her name if I think she's the best.  The issues I have are between her and me

So I am just gonna list them here, so many posts I am not sure I remember all the names.

1.  Whoever emailed you asking you to change your review score is....well, let's just say that shocked me.  I am sure she is a lovely provider.  I just think that is a little out of left field, you know?  

2.  Referrals are a big deal - I am very referral friendly to other providers.  And are truly appreciative of those who return the favor to me.  However, to clients complaining about it - don't you all have a reviewers only board?  And back channels?  And the ability to review us on here?  My recommendation is that you try to be a client we enjoy seeing.  Polite, non-smelly, respectful of limitations, not a jerk, ect.  It's a red flag if you are worried you will get a bad referral.  A big waving red flag.  

3.  It is a courtesy to you.  Although I am referral friendly for the safety of the provider community, it is not mandatory of other ladies.   But life is full of choices, and if you choose to use referrals as verification it would make sense that you see ladies who are referral friendly to others.  And see #2 again.  

4.  Life is about choices on how we wish to pursue things.  It's not a hard concept.  Don't want to deal with referrals?  See providers who don't require them and use verification services or traditional screening.  It should be super easy from their site what you need to provide to see them.  

SideNote:  I smile and giggle every time I see someone write how he will NEVER EVER EVER GIVE A PROVIDER HIS PERSONAL INFO, DANGIT!  NEVERNEVERNEVERNEVERNEVER!  It is so defiant sounding every time, like a little boy stomping his foot.  And then they complain a lady won't see them due to it.  Like the provider is going to lose sleep over it.    She sets her own safety rules, just like you do!  No harm, no foul

Register Now!