TER General Board

Like most relationships "it was complicated" lol
GaGambler 1170 reads
posted

It wasn't my wandering eye that ended our relationship, it was a combination of insane, unfounded jealousy on her part, and the fact that I knew she was thinking "forever" as in marriage and I just couldn't wrap my arms around being with the same person for the rest of my life.

If she had been American things might have been different as six months or even a year or two out of our lives to "play house" would not be that big a deal. My issue was, I knew it would not be fair to her to have her play house with me, neglect her work to make me happy, and lose her limited opportunity to make a nest egg to go back to Thailand with. Without getting married Asian women only have a limited window of opportunity to make bank and set themselves up back home. I cared for her too much to allow her to squander that opportunity in a false hope that we would live happily ever after.

See, I do have a heart afterall. lol It would have been very easy for me to support her while we were together, but the problem would be when we inevitably broke up, then what would she do if she had grown dependent on me? I know she would have been more than willing, eager actually, to quit working to be with me fulltime, but I just couldn't do it, especially once I saw the jealous side of her, I knew that "forever" was simply not in the cards.

looking back, she was a great GF. I think some of us just aren't meant to be with one person for the rest of our lives. I had a FWB stay with me for most of last week, a 25 year old hottie that I've been on and off with for years, but after about three days I started wishing that she had someplace to go so I could have my space back. lol

First sorry this is long but I can't see how it can be shorter without losing too much info. There's a new girl originally from NY that I have been seeing and is moving in with me soon when her lease is up.  She has requested that I LEAVE THE HOBBY! and SEVER communications with ALL escorts & civvie friends with benefits. This, I can abide since this is a real relationship that I hope lasts and I still believe in the fairytale of being happily ever after although it hasn't quite worked out with other girls so far.  
 
However, she wants to continue to work --> while expecting me to leave the hobby!
 
My initial reaction was "WTF?!?". Her reasoning is that this is strictly work for her and she is not getting off on fucking fat old men. While it makes sense for her, from my perspective she's still physically having sex with other dudes! Sex is sex! Getting paid for it doesn't make it less so! Considering I'm not some smooth 20 something hot magazine model, I'm pretty sure some of her clients are decent enough for her to feel some connection or gratification during the act too.  
 
I've heard this particular way of thinking from some providers before though, which leads me to believe some providers and mongers perceive and react to the p4p act very very differently. Most mongers do it for sexual gratification while most providers do it for money (livelihood) so the act itself is intrinsically different for the two genders who are meeting in this business.  
 
1) Here's the first thought to think about. If you're in a relationship with a client / provider, is it the intent of the act that counts? or is it the act itself that counts more?  I'm sure there will be differing views.  
 
She makes good money doing this so the second reason she wants to continue to work is because we both don't want a SD/SB relationship. She's also a bit of a "feminist" too, claiming women should have equal rights, pay for as much shit as the guy pays, etc (which I have no problem with... by the way ). She's claiming she'll pay for remodeling of my basement and wants to upgrade the kitchen to her preference style and get rid of the style that my ex liked.
 
While admittedly it feels shitty that she's still fucking other dudes, I've become accepting of the oldest profession known to man. It is what it is... Also, new kitchen, new basement, and she pays for a lot of shit too so I figure... why not? Actually, the reasoning and the train of thought she laid out make sense too which is why I've been ok with her working so far. However, the part I feel isn't fair is where she wants me to quit the hobby while she still works.  
 
2) Do you think this request of her is fair, asking me to quit having sex with escorts while she still works as an escort?  
 
3) Do you think it's reasonable that she asks me to cut off communication with other escorts I've become close friends with?  
 
4) What if I get blue balls when she's out having sex with clients?  I got to the point where I'm just chill and relaxed while she's out doing the deed with other dudes (it's amazing what alcohol and computer games can do!) but what if I get the urge to want to blow a load or two right this minute while she's out? Do I just pull out some porn and choke my chicken til it turns blue?  
 
5) What if I get tired of sleeping with the same girl while she gets her "variety needs" met? Is that fair?  
 
"Should" this be fair? The word "should" implies that it already implies fairness? Should I file a restraining order against my blueballs so that I can go along with this request? Are blue balls fair? Is the hobby fair for mongers dating providers? What if she catches EBOLA from one of her ebola clients, is that fair? Am I the victim in this arrangement? Should we blame the victim for this?  
 
Jokes on that last part aside, I would prefer that she retire and settle for less of a high life that she seems to have gotten used to from this business. But, asking a monger who's used to seeing 2~3 girls a week to suddenly quit seeing escorts........ while she still works as an escort? It's something to really think about. I guess I'm probably gonna end up going along with it, who knows. lol damn it...

That is probably how she sees it too. Fairness doesn't apply because the givens of the place sex plays in your life and in hers are not the "same commodity." It's like asking if an ice cream sundae is the same commodity on Christmas Eve as it is on the Fourth of July. Or, conversely, if hot coco is the same commodity on the Fourth of July as it is on Christmas. Sex as a livelihood is not the same commodity as sex as a hobby.

By the same token, asking a man to be ok with her girl having sex with another man is the same as asking a girl to be ok with her man having sex with another girl... and vice versa.  Isn't sex still sex?  

There's still fucking, sucking, licking, and kissing involved. Even DFK, CIM, and anal...  

There's a famous phrase that goes something like: if it walks like sex, talks like sex, and smells like sex...  
Well.............................................. I guess it IS sex?

Seasons aren't changing, the act of sex is still the act of sex. It's challenging enough for a dude to be accustomed with an escort with her occupation, but for the escort to be restricting the monger while she is still escorting is yet another. lo

I have had more than one provider tell me that her provider name is simply a character she assumes when she needs to.   I get the sense that many providers so detach themselves from what they are doing that right down to the different name, it's not really THEM having sex. And as hard as that is to wrap our arms around I honestly do believe it when it was put to me that way.  

For guys like us, it really is US having the sex but I honestly think for a thoughtful provider like your lady you are getting the real and only HER, while the fat old men are getting her STAGE PERSONA who she detaches herself from the moment they walk out the door.  Like an actor running lines with her.  I bet she wouldn't even remember their names if they don't come back.    

That doesn't make it totally easy as of course we have some conditioning chip that has caused us to equate sex and love.   But for us we know that is not so, so we should give them the same slack, especially since it is her livelihood.  

If I were you I would jump in with both feet and go for it.  If she is as special as you say, it's worth making it work.  And my guess is that as your relationship evolves and grows stronger (let's think positive) then she will taper her providing to only you once she feels the safety and security of the two of you being together, and you will lose all desire to be with anyone else.   And with work it will stay that way, but to be honest, it sounds like both of you are front loading the hard work of getting a relationship to work so if you are truly compatible for all the non-sexual things that make for a wonderful shared life then you've found something good.

For me, the best part of a relationship with a woman is sharing our lives together; the good, the bad, the laughter, the tears, and the memories.  That is better than sex (although as second place goes, sex is a pretty good runner up) for those who get it right.  Go for it pal, and don't look back if you feel it's working.   And if it's not, your TER family is always here.

-- Modified on 10/12/2014 9:00:47 AM

GaGambler1491 reads

and often one party or the other feels that they are doing all the giving and the other all the taking. lol This is just one of the reasons many people seek refuge in the hobby.

I have been in your position several times, with the one big difference that I have never lived with an active provider. I have spent six nights a week, week after week with an active provider, but that's still a lot different than living together.

Sorry, but there is no "one size fits all" answer to your question, our opinions might give you some things to think about, but the only two peoples opinion that counts are the two of you.

One thing I will interject into the mix is your potential "blue balls" That really depends on how high her sex drive is. The last provider I was in an LTR with always had enough "gas in the tank" for me. She never turned me down, even if she had had six appointments during the day. OTOH I have been in relationships with hookers where they were flat out worn out from fucking and had zero interest in sex 90% of the time, needless to say those relationships ended rather quickly.

Keep in mind, she most likely wants to keep her independence, she also appears to want a committed relationship, Like I said, there is no "one size fits all" answer to your question.

BTW for the record I never "cheated" on the gal who always had enough "gas in the tank" for me, it wasn't a rule, it's just that she met all my needs and I just didn't have the desire to stray.

girl who never turns down her man...  What was her race btw?  

Do you think certain races are more likely to do that for their men?

bonordonor1506 reads

Fortunately most SO or wives don't know that you're hobbying, so embrace your one-sided monogamous relationship. You'll just have to pace yourself so you have enough left over for her. It would be great if you could convince her to let you do her screening. You could tell them this girl is very particular so please describe yourself. If he's not old, fat and ugly, he not good enough for her! Next! BTW, sounds like she's found a way to save money without losing income and forcing you to do the same. Got to love a woman with good business sense. Good luck, I hope it works for you.

-- Modified on 10/12/2014 6:58:35 AM

Good business woman...  But the girl is fairly new.  

Umm screening for fat old men,  too funny lol

But you know the old saying--life isn't fair.  It will be pretty tough for you, if you accept those terms.  I guess a lot depends on your "new" woman; someone once said that the hotter the girl--the more us guys will put up with.  And perhaps she is worth that sacrifice to you (both emotionally and physically).

Realize that she probably has a pretty good reason for wanting to continue to work (to financially help both of you for one); and what's your reason to keep "playing"?   And things always change; perhaps in six months, she may want to retire or maybe your blue balls just won't be able to take it any more.   Also, consider the fact she may be "testing" you.

In summary, I would have to say that she is being as "fair" as possible.  And if you get past the idea of her doing other men, you should be ok.   Put it this way, would you feel better is she just sneaked out and saw guys without telling you

Life isn't fair, true.  I'd say it's not 50/50 fair but considering she's spending all that time with me that other guys pay by the hour or week, from that perspective I can't really complain.  

However, in a relationship things become equalized somewhat and it wouldn't be right to compare that she doesn't charge her bf cuz that's how it's supposed to be in a relationship.  

I think she is definitely worth the sacrifice but asking me to cut off my friends wasn't expected lol This is turning out to be easier said than done actually.  How do tell a friend "Oh my GF wants me to avoid talking to you". I'll probably get curious how they are doing and all too.  I could try to be an ass hole and argue that she's communicating with her clients, but it wasn't like she was demanding that I do this it was just her 'wish'... a request.  

You're probably right, things could change 6 months later. It seems we're very compatible personality-wise and compatible in bed too so I guess she'll essentially be my new "ATF" so to speak.  

I guess no more duos though.  

Posted By: smallsteps
But you know the old saying--life isn't fair.  It will be pretty tough for you, if you accept those terms.  I guess a lot depends on your "new" woman; someone once said that the hotter the girl--the more us guys will put up with.  And perhaps she is worth that sacrifice to you (both emotionally and physically).  
   
 Realize that she probably has a pretty good reason for wanting to continue to work (to financially help both of you for one); and what's your reason to keep "playing"?   And things always change; perhaps in six months, she may want to retire or maybe your blue balls just won't be able to take it any more.   Also, consider the fact she may be "testing" you.  
   
 In summary, I would have to say that she is being as "fair" as possible.  And if you get past the idea of her doing other men, you should be ok.   Put it this way, would you feel better is she just sneaked out and saw guys without telling you?  
   
 

Situations always change.  And ALL relationships involve some amount of give and take, and negotiating.   Hopefully, it is about 50/50 but often times those of us on the low end of that ratio can feel better about ourselves just because of that fact.  Somewhere I heard that it's better to "give than receive".  Of course, receiving is pretty damn good too!

Also, relationships change and usually grow for the better.  There is a good chance, which depends a lot on you, that she will soften her position on you communicating with your old "friends".   And she may even eventually get comfortable about having a duo with you!  Hopefully FMF and not MFM.  On the other hand, she may soon have you feeling like Patsy Cline sang about so long ago....

client_number_91394 reads

and welcome to dating a provider.

Number 3 is troubling. That plus the fact that she's asking you to forego all other sexual gratification (other than that which can be provided by your hand) tells me she's possessive, and possessiveness is toxic in a relationship like the one you're describing.  

Walk away from this one and continue loving her three hours at a time, unless she's willing to come around to the view that sex is just sex no matter which party engages in it.

Hmm, maybe she does have a bit of possessiveness. I thought most girls would request a monger leave the hobby when dating although unsure if most ask of that when still providing herself.  

It's not my first time dating a provider but I can't recall if even a civie girl asked me to cut off communications with other girls.  

Her 3 hour rate is $1.5k. If I saw her as frequently as I do now I'd have no savings. lol  

 

Posted By: client_number_9
and welcome to dating a provider.  
   
 Number 3 is troubling. That plus the fact that she's asking you to forego all other sexual gratification (other than that which can be provided by your hand) tells me she's possessive, and possessiveness is toxic in a relationship like the one you're describing.  
   
 Walk away from this one and continue loving her three hours at a time, unless she's willing to come around to the view that sex is just sex no matter which party engages in it.

but she is also having her ego massaged doing her 'job' as sure as any hobbyist does fucking 4 different providers in 2 days. Many of her clients may be "fat old men"; but she still gets 'validation' and a boost to the ego with each appointment made. She wants you to give up the similar emotionally validating "ego" boost she enjoys simply by classifying hers as "work" rather than pleasure.

Seems to me, hot women know that they are hot but enjoy the attention and confirmation and re-comfirmation (and some more reconfirmation) that comes along with being around different guys.  

Admittedly, aside from infamous CR monger Gag, I'm one of the other guys who claimed to have seen more than 5 escorts in one day. All you need is a few thousand dollars for that though. It does not require anything else, maybe solid references and a long lasting woody, that's it.  

Probably wiser to invest that elsewhere if you're smart, but for cocky-asians I guess it does give some bragging rights. LOL  

 

Posted By: GhostWriteroftheDamned
 but she is also having her ego massaged doing her 'job' as sure as any hobbyist does fucking 4 different providers in 2 days. Many of her clients may be "fat old men"; but she still gets 'validation' and a boost to the ego with each appointment made. She wants you to give up the similar emotionally validating "ego" boost she enjoys simply by classifying hers as "work" rather than pleasure.      

yes, very."

While I know that your style of writing is a little grandiose, if you really wonder about this request being  "outrageously unfair", why would you even consider it?  If, in your opinion, the request is "outrageous", say no and move on.

But the fact that you took the time to write a long description of the problem means that you are considering this seriously, so it is clearly not outrageous.  What it will be, however, is very difficult and challenging.  I personally believe in the theory that "sex is her work and sex is your hobby" and therefore it is very different for her.   She obviously makes a better living at providing than she is going to make elsewhere, so it is unfair of you to ask her to stop in order to try a relationship with you.  Her independence and feministic outlook on life make this a given for her.

The key point is, from her perspective, she will have a relationship connection with you as her SO that she would never have with other retail clerks in Macy's if she was a retail clerk in Macy's.  You're going to have to live with that, because it is obvious to her -- thankfully.  And she doesn't want you sticking your wanger in other women for fun, just as you might not want her snorting coke or hang-gliding for fun.  From her perspective, you are asking her to give up her livelihood, while she's asking you to give up something equivalent to gambling on horseraces.  Big difference.

Good luck with this.  It will be a ton of work, but maybe you get the golden ring in the end.  On the lighter side -- I'm a contractor and if this doesn't work out for you, I would suggest that a remodeled basement and a remodeled kitchen are well worth giving up hobbying for six or nine months.  Except for the possible broken heart, it sounds like a win-win if it works out and a win-win if it doesn't.

But, again, if you really consider this an outrageous request, keep paying her by the hour and skip the remodel of your house.  There'll be dust everywhere...

ou're correct that I'm considering it seriously even though I felt it was outrageous.  

My style of writing is a bit grandiose... haha.  You have keen eyes.  

That's why I'm not a caucasian but rather a cocky-asian. :)

I guess I'll suck it up for now and see where it goes. Too early.  

As for remodeling, I don't really care if she does or not.  

The house is still pretty new so I'd say this is all because of her own personal wishes to get rid of old stuff and decorate with new stuff..... Even stuff that aren't broke!

Thanks for your post.  

 

" But the fact that you took the time to write a long description of the problem means that you are considering this seriously, so it is clearly not outrageous.

I had an ATF a few years back that was my go-to girl for a week at a time.  We had fabulous sex more On than Off throughout the entire week .

Nearing the end of the first year she began calling herself my wife which coincidently was the beginning of less and far less sexual contact. We were actually falling into the same type relationship that I as a monger was temporarily trying to avoid in my married life.

My point....
I wonder how long it will take before your new love interest returns home to you after spending a few hours with a John or two only to let you know that she is tired or sore or simply not interested because the act of sex is her job ?

your situation is completely different. You can't have a live in situation.

Without being a complete smart ass, if you had dick burn from fucking and it HURT if any friction as all occurred, I highly doubt your GF (which it sounds like what you had was NOT) would be so selfish as too cope a tude about it.

What DA is describing is different dude.  What you seem to fail to realize is keeping up the fantasy for a week is different (you were compensating her?) than the day to day thing for long term.

Yeh it's her JOB and if she's exhausted and SORE anyone who cared would want her to rest up until was better.

Steph

That's how I see your post. You are here for you and what's missing in your life and what you were doing was not what DA is talking about.

Ours is a physical "job". If DA wants a real relationship with a lady in the biz yeh she may have some nights where she physically tired and sore. She won't be there to provide a "service". If you read my response to DA below, I said she'll have to make some changes as well. If she's had a tiring physically exhausting day, it's ok, but she need to make it up to him the next day, IMO. lol.

And if you've had had dick burn I hear it very painful and allows time to heal. Heard to hurts to even have the shower water hit it.

Just sayin.



GaGambler1014 reads

and FWIW, I think your advice is spot on.

Your key point was "making it up to him" it's not JUST the physical part of having sex, it's making sure she isn't ignoring him due to her work. It's bad enough when your doctor GF ignores your needs, it's a thousand times worse when your hooker GF does the same, due to the intimate nature of her work.

One other thing that might be helpful would be for her to quit doing more intimate dates like overnights and extended dinner dates, or dates that include outings in public places. My last provider GF was very sensitive to those types of things, I never forbade her from doing those types of dates, she quit doing them on her own out of respect for me. The same as she never forbade me from seeing other hookers, but as we spent virtually every night together and had a VERY healthy sex life, forbidding me to do so was simply unnecessary, I just didn't have the desire to see anyone else

Hey, if I pig like me can do it, I am sure there is hope for DA as well.

But it didn't last, correct? It's beyond HARD not to find reasons to go back into the fun of CR, new pussy, ect. Even with a totally cool GF.

I'm just wondering if DA is jumping in feet first too fast.

Steph

GaGambler1171 reads

It wasn't my wandering eye that ended our relationship, it was a combination of insane, unfounded jealousy on her part, and the fact that I knew she was thinking "forever" as in marriage and I just couldn't wrap my arms around being with the same person for the rest of my life.

If she had been American things might have been different as six months or even a year or two out of our lives to "play house" would not be that big a deal. My issue was, I knew it would not be fair to her to have her play house with me, neglect her work to make me happy, and lose her limited opportunity to make a nest egg to go back to Thailand with. Without getting married Asian women only have a limited window of opportunity to make bank and set themselves up back home. I cared for her too much to allow her to squander that opportunity in a false hope that we would live happily ever after.

See, I do have a heart afterall. lol It would have been very easy for me to support her while we were together, but the problem would be when we inevitably broke up, then what would she do if she had grown dependent on me? I know she would have been more than willing, eager actually, to quit working to be with me fulltime, but I just couldn't do it, especially once I saw the jealous side of her, I knew that "forever" was simply not in the cards.

looking back, she was a great GF. I think some of us just aren't meant to be with one person for the rest of our lives. I had a FWB stay with me for most of last week, a 25 year old hottie that I've been on and off with for years, but after about three days I started wishing that she had someplace to go so I could have my space back. lol

He may as well continue seeing providers if that's going to happen. Not that providers should have to make it up to their customers to start with. Real jobs need to be done right the first time, if not there's a competitor out there who can.

Posted By: MatureGFE
That's how I see your post. You are here for you and what's missing in your life and what you were doing was not what DA is talking about.

Ours is a physical "job". If DA wants a real relationship with a lady in the biz yeh she may have some nights where she physically tired and sore. She won't be there to provide a "service". If you read my response to DA below, I said she'll have to make some changes as well. If she's had a tiring physically exhausting day, it's ok, but she need to make it up to him the next day, IMO. lol.

And if you've had had dick burn I hear it very painful and allows time to heal. Heard to hurts to even have the shower water hit it.

Just sayin.

 

1. If he can't have sex outside of the relationship, he is going to want sex with in the relationship. what he wants and what he gets may be two different things. That makes sense.

2. Most things including jobs, have to be done right the first time. I can't think of many occupations where you get a second chance to complete a task which wasn't done the first time. That's why competition exists. This also makes sense.  

However that might not be relevant when it comes to relationships. You mentioned "making it up to him" I disagree with that concept in business.

GaGambler1675 reads

and then to compound things she "forbids" him from seeing other hookers. In that case, this is definitely doomed for failure. I have been in such relationships and when I started getting less sex "at home" from my provider GF than the typical married guy on TER gets from his wife, I have ended those relationships for that very reason. In a couple of cases we remained very good friends though. I just couldn't have a GF that wouldn't have sex with me because she was too tired from fucking every other guy in town. Call me selfish if you must. lol

I hope for the sake of this discussion that he/they have moved well past the him paying her for sex phase of their relationship, and from the tone of his post it does sound that way, but you are absolutely correct that living together is a completely different dynamic.

BOTH people have to makes changes and this kind of thing doesn't work out often long term. Trust me I know.

Steph xoxo

-- Modified on 10/12/2014 12:46:47 PM

If you are not OK with the arrangement its NOT fair.  

If I were you, I would do one of two things...

1. Either have an arrangement with her that as long as she works as a provider, you will see other providers. Once she decides to settle down and leave the profession for a civvie job, then you can stop.  

2. Look elsewhere, in the civvie world for love.

And that's what it will become. You think she can just drop everything and get a civvie job making decent money?

It's hard for one side to get the other here. It's hard for the guy to see this for what it is and be secure enough. It goes against the grain.

She would HAVE to make changes as well. This kind of thing is harder because of the dynamics going on.


Steph xoxo

-- Modified on 10/12/2014 1:52:11 PM

From your account, it sounds as if she is saying, "I want to be with you but here is my list of demands." Is she sacrificing anything to be with you or is it one-sided? We all have our reasons for being here and if this came from you it would be a different story (ex. "I fucked a lifetime's worth already, I'm ready to move on.") Are you confident that she alone can fulfill your needs and you hers, and is that fair to expect of each other? She's asking for a drastic life change from you. You may have a happy year or two ahead of you, but if you don't feel 100% about it, then the seeds of resentment have been sown.  

Normally, I would say go for the experience and live and learn, but with moving in together and sharing assets, you're going to have one ugly breakup if it doesn't work out.

This chick sounds like a maniac, why is she obsessed over remodeling your house? Only a renovation maniac would think that's a relevant element of a relationship. Perhaps if you brought up the topic of renovating your home. She could through out an opinion or two, but to mention such things at this stage of a relationship is plain insane.

 http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/english/maniac - both 11 and 12

An obsessive enthusiast

A person suffering from mania

 
What is even crazier, is she doesn't want her own home to remodel. Sounds like she also suffers from some codependency given the fact she wants to change your behavior, along with your kitchen appliances. I bet she's hot, it's all down hill from here.

Plus it's just something she said while she stayed over,  not something she is obsessing over.  

Wow you're really going to extremes.

You just have to learn how to cancel out that noise... if anything she should wait until she's moved in, and after you bring up the topic. Were you two watching this old house? Some conversations don't need to be had until the input is actually relevant.

What's your next get together with her going to be like... Picking out baby names, while laying there after BBing?

No where do you mention the word love.  Perhaps that was fear of some of the idiots on tjis board calling you a mangina, or perhaps it was fear of the concept itself.  Pat Benatar says love is a battlefield.  What she means by that is that love is sacrifice.  You each must give up something of yourselves.  She escorts for money, you have a hobby.  Obviously, you are concerned about her having sex with other men and you know just how raunchy and debauched it can be.  Is she going to want to have sex with you after having sex all day with two or three other guys?  Are you going to want to have sex with her?  What happens when she comes home with a hickey?  Is it fair for her to be concerned about you having sex with other women?  To give up you friendships you've made here?  What is her sacrifice?  A new kitchen and basement?  Is your heart equal to that?  That's something only you can decide.

You may also want to consider that addiction factor.  Escorting is hugely addictive to some of these ladies - the glamor, travel, high rollers and money are a powerful drug.  And we both know how addictive the hobby can be.  Can you really give it up or will you sneak around?

 
Before you do the move in and let's make a life together, you have to ask is this a relationship based on love or convenience?

I'm loathe to give relationship advice because my experience is different from everyone else's.   If you are thinking long term, maybe talk about an exit strategy for her to leave the profession with a set goal of her finding another career ie education.

Regardless, best of luck to you.

On first paragraph,  I wrote that i believe in the fairy tale of living happily ever after lol  

I guess you're right I avoided sounding like a pussy whipped mangina.  Fact is though,  I wouldn't be living with a girl if I didn't like her enough to.  

All is great so far, just thought asking me to quit the hobby while she still works was a tad weird.

Quitting the hobby would make more sense if she retired too but...  

I guess I will stop seeing escorts...  For now.  :)

You obviously know what you are doing, as much anyone can in that situation.  Keep it real.

So if she drops XXX for this kitchen/basement in your house....how's that going to work out when/if this ends in a few months or so.

Good luck with this plan...seems that JoeMomma set the over/under at 6 months.  I'm going with the under  LOL

Hey DA...maybe she'll barter for the home improvements?  Just a thought  ;)

GaGambler1647 reads

Notice, he did not say that they would enjoy a "happy" six months, just that the relationship would last that long. I think that if DA actually decides to accept these terms and move her in with him, he will have maybe one month of "wedded bliss" and then it will take him at least five months to undo what he has done. If she actually moves in with him and starts construction, I think I might even take the over.

One caveat, I set the line at 60 days tops, before DA goes back to the hobby, even if she is still sharing a bed with him. lol

Been away from the hobby for over a year, I think it may have been a year and a half almost. I forget. It was definitely longer than 60 days lol  

It's difficult for a monger to become monogamous again but I can at least try.  

I've actually always believed that some things are more important than having sex with providers left and right. Then again, the smaller head takes over sometimes...  Well, Maybe more than a few times. Lol

Admittedly, I've really been enjoying this hobby and all the mongering but being with someone who makes me very happy in many other ways not just in bed can be great too

GaGambler1569 reads

The reason for my 60 crack is that if she is too tired to have sex with you, and she "forbids" you from seeing providers, you are going to resent her very quickly. It's different when your lawyer GF is too tired to fuck because she is putting in 18 hour days. When your hooker GF wont' fuck you, it's quite a different matter, trust me.

Now I am not passing judgment on your relationship, and quite frankly I have no idea if these problems will even come up. Maybe she is a low volume provider, OR she has a high sex drive and can keep your happy. In that case you might be just fine with this relationship for a very long time to come. That said, you are the one who brought up blue balls, and I can tell you from experience, feeling cuckolded is a lousy feeling to have, and nothing can make a guy feel worse than having his GF jump out of bed after NOT fucking him, just to run out the door to fuck someone else because he's paying her a paltry few hundred bucks.

OTOH, if she makes you feel special and attends to your needs, it's quite easy to compartmentalize her work, the same as I am sure she does. The key is, can she make you secure in the fact that all those other guys "just business" and what you have together "special" Actions speak louder than words, and as long as she makes the effort not to be too tired very often, than yes I can see this working.

Provided she does barter for the home improvements. The job will take much longer than six months, the handy man isn't going to want to give up the deal that easily. He's probably her real life boy friend, who will sleep over so he can get an early start. Banging DA's new room mate, DA will have to continue hobbying or become his own handy man. Perhaps his new live in GF can recommend some of her friends.

Maybe paying the rent.  

I am not asking her to pay me anything while she lives here.  It would be awkward to treat an SO like a tenant.  

Another reason, I told her that parts of the house was renovated in my ex's taste.  

She didn't like that and I think that is why she wants to change it

move in with you?
 

Posted By: Drunken Asian
First sorry this is long but I can't see how it can be shorter without losing too much info. There's a new girl originally from NY that I have been seeing and is moving in with me soon when her lease is up.  She has requested that I LEAVE THE HOBBY! and SEVER communications with ALL escorts & civvie friends with benefits. This, I can abide since this is a real relationship that I hope lasts and I still believe in the fairytale of being happily ever after although it hasn't quite worked out with other girls so far.    
   
 However, she wants to continue to work --> while expecting me to leave the hobby!  
   
 My initial reaction was "WTF?!?". Her reasoning is that this is strictly work for her and she is not getting off on fucking fat old men. While it makes sense for her, from my perspective she's still physically having sex with other dudes! Sex is sex! Getting paid for it doesn't make it less so! Considering I'm not some smooth 20 something hot magazine model, I'm pretty sure some of her clients are decent enough for her to feel some connection or gratification during the act too.    
   
 I've heard this particular way of thinking from some providers before though, which leads me to believe some providers and mongers perceive and react to the p4p act very very differently. Most mongers do it for sexual gratification while most providers do it for money (livelihood) so the act itself is intrinsically different for the two genders who are meeting in this business.    
   
 1) Here's the first thought to think about. If you're in a relationship with a client / provider, is it the intent of the act that counts? or is it the act itself that counts more?  I'm sure there will be differing views.    
   
 She makes good money doing this so the second reason she wants to continue to work is because we both don't want a SD/SB relationship. She's also a bit of a "feminist" too, claiming women should have equal rights, pay for as much shit as the guy pays, etc (which I have no problem with... by the way ). She's claiming she'll pay for remodeling of my basement and wants to upgrade the kitchen to her preference style and get rid of the style that my ex liked.  
   
 While admittedly it feels shitty that she's still fucking other dudes, I've become accepting of the oldest profession known to man. It is what it is... Also, new kitchen, new basement, and she pays for a lot of shit too so I figure... why not? Actually, the reasoning and the train of thought she laid out make sense too which is why I've been ok with her working so far. However, the part I feel isn't fair is where she wants me to quit the hobby while she still works.    
   
 2) Do you think this request of her is fair, asking me to quit having sex with escorts while she still works as an escort?    
   
 3) Do you think it's reasonable that she asks me to cut off communication with other escorts I've become close friends with?    
   
 4) What if I get blue balls when she's out having sex with clients?  I got to the point where I'm just chill and relaxed while she's out doing the deed with other dudes (it's amazing what alcohol and computer games can do!) but what if I get the urge to want to blow a load or two right this minute while she's out? Do I just pull out some porn and choke my chicken til it turns blue?    
   
 5) What if I get tired of sleeping with the same girl while she gets her "variety needs" met? Is that fair?    
   
 "Should" this be fair? The word "should" implies that it already implies fairness? Should I file a restraining order against my blueballs so that I can go along with this request? Are blue balls fair? Is the hobby fair for mongers dating providers? What if she catches EBOLA from one of her ebola clients, is that fair? Am I the victim in this arrangement? Should we blame the victim for this?    
   
 Jokes on that last part aside, I would prefer that she retire and settle for less of a high life that she seems to have gotten used to from this business. But, asking a monger who's used to seeing 2~3 girls a week to suddenly quit seeing escorts........ while she still works as an escort? It's something to really think about. I guess I'm probably gonna end up going along with it, who knows. lol damn it...

What will happen is this.  She will continue to see clients with or without your permission.  She is a liberated and self sufficient woman.  You will either agree to her request to refrain from being with or contacting other women or you won't agree and will remain a Great Asian American Hobbyist.  I am guessing the latter and recommending the latter.  If you agree, you will end up miserable.  You are giving her all the power in the relationship.  She can screw around but you can't?  Ridiculous.  If it is to be an open and honest thing then you both have to be either free to see others or both have to stay monogamous to each other, there is no middle ground.  What she is asking is not only unfair, its emasculating.  
An arrangement for convenience sake for fondness and OTC fucking and friendship with living arrangements such as the home improvements mentioned all sounds great, but if she's still working, she's not all yours dude.  Which may not be a bad thing because it should and could mean you aren't all hers either.  Staying together fir mutual benefits would be great but being ruled by her "rules" will quickly squash your relationship IMHO.

Good luck and congrats, whatever you decide

We're not trying to screw each other in this relationship. She's actually new to the business and quite naive too, to the point where I have to inform her of ways to avoid dangers.  

I think the girl simply expressed her wishes to me, that's really about it.  No demands, no ultimatums, no requirements or anything like that.  

You know what though, I will respect her wishes and stop seeing escorts. I don't really want to screw this up, and neither does she

It sounds like a relationship you shouldn't be getting into. You are already unhappy, and she hasn't moved in yet. Although for her the sex is business, for you the sex is just sex. What's the difference really?  I know a provider who is married and they are both poly, so it seems to work for them.  

To give up something going into a relationship is the cracked foundation that will cause the relationship to fail. I shoot weddings and have heard many brides tell their bridesmaids things they don't like about there fiance but 'they will change him after they are married'. I want to tell them to cancel the wedding, but of course I don't. Some of those marriages didn't last until I got their album finished!

I can guarantee it, it will not be lol as you write at the end of your post. But, good luck whatever you do

Townman1417 reads

It doesn't smell fair and if she's a provider and she still doesn't get that there is a difference for men between having sex with his significant other and having sex with an escort (which is more like going to the bar with friends then like making love), she sure is not an understanding type.  

Sex for money for a woman differs from sex for love but so is for a man. Sex for money is fun, maybe a fantasy, maybe the only time when a man can relax and think about self-gratification without considering her or the morning after. I'm sure you've heard that many men sleep with hookers because at the end of the session "she actually leaves"? Well, I think 70% or so of the time it's true.  

I had an incident once, I was about to commence an affair with a married woman (the kind that I like the most) and right before getting down to it for the first time she goes: "I understand that you may think that it's hypocritical of me to ask you that but I expect you to be monogamous in our relationship even if I'm not." As I was digesting it more and more I quickly lost... interest. :) After initial cooling off we moved into the friend's zone where we safely are even until this day.  

I think you won't be able to handle it and will continue to do it behind her back. She is a pro so she'll probably know soon enough. If she is intelligent she won't confront you with is, if she is not intelligent she will.

-- Modified on 10/12/2014 9:46:24 AM

You want to know why? Screw the 'blue balls'. He will stop seeing 2 or 3 providers a week. That's on a conservative side over $1000 taken out of the hookers economy every week. That's why you don't hear from any providers.

In my simplistic way of viewing this - she is providing sex to clients more so than having sex with them. Is that a distinction without a difference?  I don't think it is but I am not in your shoes so maybe it's easy for me to say.  

She is doing this as a way to support herself.  People don't generally quit their jobs to try a relationship.  Perhaps after they're married but I am unaware of it happening when two people decide to move in together.  

 I am guessing that if this relationship is one that is destined to last, there is an excellent chance her providing will end.  I think too that while there are exceptions, being a provider is not a 40 years and a gold watch career so her business won't last indefinitely given the world that she operates in.

It's not like she is going to pick up guys at a bar, as if she was doing that and telling you that she would not want you doing the same, then that is different.

Strangely, if I was you I would feel worse if she was good with you screwing around.   She wants the real you to herself, and she wants to give you and you alone the real her.   That's how I see it.  She is not controlling in my view - she is telling you what she wants out of a relationship and you can take it or leave it.   All I can say is if you feel strongly about her, give it a try, but don;'t go in half-heartedly.  See if it works, and hopefully if your feelings are strong, it will.

-- Modified on 10/12/2014 3:56:29 PM

"Strangely, if I was you I would feel worse if she was good with you screwing around.   She wants the real you to herself, and she wants to give you and you alone the real her.   That's how I see it."

 
That makes sense. Actually, it makes a lot of sense and that's exactly how she sees it too.

that she, being an escort and presumably knowing about your hobbying, would believe that you could change and become monogamous.  

I think she should know that this is going to be a gigantic fail, as you should know, and as I think most of the people who have responded should know.

Should you attempt to comply with her conditions, your furniture is going to end up with tooth marks on in short order.

You should put the cards down on the table and tell her it's been fun, but that she keep looking for someone who will fulfill her expectations, and a hobbyist isn't one of them.

Knowing that her offer is a foolish one.  

I can only imagine what gals say to the guys whom they want to keep as clients. With out telling them the truth

You ask for GFE you might just get it.  Maybe she likes you? Maybe she wants to live you?

 You already got the best of what she has to offer, and you don't want to change your lifestyle.

 
Maybe you need that kitchen reno more than I know?

hotplants1135 reads

If you’re going to be in a relationship with a woman who happens to be a sex worker, and you know this going in, there is nothing fair about expecting her to give up her livelihood because you’re not comfortable with it.

What if her request to you was that you either, give up your livelihood, your salary, basically all of your financial independence and rely on her to support both of you….OR……she says:  you can work, but you have to find some other line of work because she is not comfortable that you find your work satisfying?

Or, how would you feel about her having sex with other men? Men that she chooses for no other reason than because they turn her on? Would you feel better about that if she assures you that the sex is purely for her pleasure? This is what you’re asking her to be comfortable with.  

To be “fair” both of you have expectations that are incongruent with the relationship you actually have and/or  appear to “want” going forward.
.  
You’ve been dating a sex worker and you’ve been comfortable ‘enough’ with her work that it has not stopped you from developing a serious relationship with her.  

She has been dating a guy that she knows plays with sex workers (maybe how she met you in the first place?). And she has been comfortable ‘enough’ with this that it has not stopped her from developing a serious relationship with you.  

Now you both want to take the next step and move in together. But, she wants you to be strictly monogamous, and suddenly you are no longer comfortable with her work

Townman1103 reads

Posted By: hotplants
If you’re going to be in a relationship with a woman who happens to be a sex worker, and you know this going in, there is nothing fair about expecting her to give up her livelihood because you’re not comfortable with it.  
   
 What if her request to you was that you either, give up your livelihood, your salary, basically all of your financial independence and rely on her to support both of you….OR……she says:  you can work, but you have to find some other line of work because she is not comfortable that you find your work satisfying?  
   
 Or, how would you feel about her having sex with other men? Men that she chooses for no other reason than because they turn her on? Would you feel better about that if she assures you that the sex is purely for her pleasure? This is what you’re asking her to be comfortable with.  
   
 To be “fair” both of you have expectations that are incongruent with the relationship you actually have and/or  appear to “want” going forward.  
 .  
 You’ve been dating a sex worker and you’ve been comfortable ‘enough’ with her work that it has not stopped you from developing a serious relationship with her.  
   
 She has been dating a guy that she knows plays with sex workers (maybe how she met you in the first place?). And she has been comfortable ‘enough’ with this that it has not stopped her from developing a serious relationship with you.    
   
 Now you both want to take the next step and move in together. But, she wants you to be strictly monogamous, and suddenly you are no longer comfortable with her work?  
   
   
 
I think he is comfortable alright with her work. He just doesn't feel comfortable that she doesn't seem to understand the difference with the way men treat P4P vs. those with whom they're in the relationship. The problem I think is that she is being a hypocrite, expecting him to understand her situation while not understanding his while he is not. I think every provider if she were to get into serious relationship with a client should understand that it's not going to be your 'regular' relationship by definition and that that "irregularity" would apply to both sides, not only to him understanding her.  

In fact the fact that both sides would know about each other's "oddities" (kind of like a pair of swingers) and accept them would probably be one of the main reason for the attraction anyway, and if one fails to except that of the other's then the whole attraction would be following suit. In this case she wants him to accept that she is providing, (which he is willing to do) while herself not willing to accept his mongering. Not fare. And if it's not fare, in my mind, it can't work, especially in this situation.

I would imagine 'yes' - so really at the core of this is the unique nature of her work.   And too, I do not think it would be unreasonable for a committed SO such as DA to WANT to give up seeing other women, and not have it be some sort of quid pro quo where 'well, you get to do it so I get to do it'    It is not like she is picking up guys in a bar. This is her work and was before they got together.  If she was providing and then also picking up guys for free that would be a different issue and not a good one for DA in my opinion.    I could separate myself in this circumstance, but maybe that's just me.  But as GaG said, if she started coming home too tired to regularly share in the sexual part of the relationship then that would be a problem too.  But since neither of those things has happened yet, and clearly he has feelings for her that go beyond the sexual realm, if I were him I would go for it.  But reasonable people can certainly disagree.

hotplants1221 reads

“It feels shitty that she's still fucking other dudes. The reasoning and the train of thought she laid out make sense too which is why I've been ok with her working *so far*. I’d rather she retire….”

That aside, what she does for work... and whether they choose to have a monogamous relationship are two different questions. She wants monogamy while continuing to be a sex worker. He’s (more?) open to (trying?) monogamy, if she quits sex work.  

So, I suppose it comes down to how one views sex work, and whether you think a sex worker can be in a monogamous relationship.  

DA is saying “no”. The fact that her work involves providing sexual services, means that she is not being monogamous. And if she is not being monogamous, why should he? He is thinking of her work *as sex* with other men for pleasure, therefore he should be able to have sex with other women too.  

OTOH, she is probably thinking of the sex *as work*. She may enjoy her work. But, there is a difference between her fucking a guy who just walked in her door, who she may or may not find even remotely attractive, and ‘doing her job’  (pleasing her client) with a smile——-and DA looking through a list of women online, picking one he thinks is hot and having sex with her, on his terms, just for fun.  

In this scenario she gets to have sex with someone of her choosing, on her terms, “just for fun”, only with him. He gets to have sex on his terms, “just for fun”, with anyone he chooses

GaGambler1718 reads

While there is certainly some agreement that men and women can come to, and I certainly concede that you make some valid points, men and women are just wired differently in this department, 100% agreement is rarely possible.

That said, I can speak from experience that compromises can be made, and that if both sides put an effort into it and at least TRY to see where the other is coming from, relationships like this can and do work.

It's funny, it was easier for me to put the actual sex my last ex was having out of my mind than it was for me to accept her socializing with the guys she was having sex with. I will confess to having twinges of jealously when coming over to find my GF a bit tipsy and seeing two empty bottles of Champagne on the counter. Funny how our minds work, isn't it?

hotplants1358 reads

And that, kids, is why god made us with innies and outties. This way we know where to stand on every subject....lol...

To state the obvious--- LTRs require give-take-compromise--and, frequently, re-thinking our own position even though going into it we are convinced, with absolute certainty, that we_are_right.

The way we choose to think about things can really skew our perspective, eh? Jealousy is a tough emotion to learn to manage. It sucks. It's like the occasional vestigal tail, or 3rd nipple on a newborn. There seems to be  no evolutionary point to it. And yet, there it is. We live with it, or we cut it off.  

DA and his squeeze will figure out what works them; one way or the other :)

hotplants964 reads

there is a couple out there right now, somewhere, as we speak.....disagreeing over parfait.

Ha, remind me to never argue with you; even over a parfait -- I can tell I won't stand a chance

Go with your instinct - which seems to be a "no" for this working out.

I wouldn't do this if I were you.  But I'm a simple guy.  If I'm committed and monogamous with you, then this is what I am looking for in return, to see if we could really build something.  Sex is sex.  For kicks, you could ask her if she would be okay with it if you entered the gigolo world.  After she stopped laughing you might get an answer.

Ultimately, even though you are conflicted, I think you really know the answers to your questions.  Good luck.

That you need. Is that remodel something you need.  

Successful Relationships are a give and take.  

I used to see this lady who had BF that didn't like her work. She would be upset the bf did not accept it was work not pleasure. Then I asked her if she never came during her sessions and if she did it was pleasure. That shut her up.  

Would she be ok if your work involved being a pimp and testing and training girls in the physical and business aspects of the hobby. Would she be ok with you being a male prostitute if it's just work.  

If she is then you got a winner and don't lose her if not there is a lot of trouble ahead for you. I think her demands come from the insecurity that some other escort can easily replace her.

djddla1000 reads

What's good for her is good for you. Don't tell her.

GaGambler1339 reads

I just can't imagine living that way, and it appears that DA may feel the same way.

If I want to fuck hookers, I am going to fuck hookers, I am certainly not going to lie about it though.

Yes it is her JOB so you are looking at from YOUR point of view. You're seeing it as it looks to YOU.

You see it as you are sacrificing something and she still gets her "variety needs met".  ASK her if she's in this for the variety. You just said she's not getting of on the old fat men she's fucking.

If you want it to work, you have to change the way you think about what she's doing or you'll drive yourself crazy. How long have you know this lady? How much time have ya'll spent together consistently?

Ok on HER end, based on what you've said she's setting down A LOT up rules from the get go with no input from YOU. If she wants changes/sacrifices from YOU, it can't be a one way street. She may have to cut down how much she make herself available to clients in order the have a workable live in RELATIONSHIP. BOTH of you have to make changes, not just you. Ya'll will have to set aside time to do stuff together when she's not coming off a day/night of working.

She's coming in wanting to remodel, telling you no communication with ladies in the biz, keeping working, blah blah blah.  Let her know that this RELATIONSHIP is a two way street. Yes it probably a good idea right now not to be hanging out even platonically  with the gals you've been fucking, lol.

Make DAMN sure this is what you want, the day to ay grind. There will days you really want some new pussy, lol. It's up to you to realize that you've been in the game here for a while and your mind won't change overnight.

And one last thing...LOSE THE FAIRY TALE STUFF! Go in with that mindset and this is destined for unhappiness and a big let down. You'll see sides of her you've never seen before and vice versa.

Steph xoxo




-- Modified on 10/12/2014 12:17:41 PM

This is the truest and most oft overlooked part of these discussions.  The grind has to be what you go into it for - like people who take difficult jobs that are rewarding nonetheless.  Special Ed teachers, child protective workers, hospice workers - there are easier ways to make a living and easier ways to go through life than being married or in a LTR if you want easy.

But a lot of people don't default to 'easy'.  I think it was Churchill who said something like 'a kite flies highest when it files against the wind, not with it'  There is nothing wrong with living by those words - but as Steph notes, someone has to go in with their eyes open and make sure they are up for the REAL part of the relationship.    

Let's say she gives up providing and down the road has an operation that requires her to limit her sexual activity for six months with you.  Are you going to a. hang in there or b. look for a provider.  If the answer is a. then you're ready and if it's b, those in the corner that says it will never work are probably a whole lot closer to right than I am.

Posted By: MatureGFE
 Make DAMN sure this is what you want, the day to ay grind. . You'll see sides of her you've never seen before and vice versa.

Steph xoxo

There's no such thing as one way monogamy.  What's "fair" is that you both abide by the same rules.  Whether you both have extracurricular sex for profit or pleasure is really immaterial.  And I think that even in asking the question "is it fair?"  you know in your heart it is not.

Don't get me wrong - I'm an optimist and a big believer in the power of love.  But when you have one person in the relationship making unilateral demands about who gets to have sex and with whom resentment will build quickly.  Especially when (as has already been mentioned) she comes home too tired or disinterested to fulfill your needs.

I wish you happiness whatever you decide.  You seem like a nice guy and your posts have provided a lot of entertainment.  But I really don't see much hope in the long term stability of such a relationship under the rules as you've explained them.  That's only my opinion - which I'm giving to you since you gave an open call for opinions.  :-)

I know there are monogamous spouses to sex workers and porn stars that do make their relationships work.  But honestly I think that the odds are against it.  Who knows though?  Love can overcome many strange things...

Maybe my style of writing must've sounded like she was demanding it but it wasn't a unilateral demand at all. She asked nicely and used the word "request". lol  However, as we all know, a 'request', is something I can't really refuse or want to refuse at this point.  

I haven't seen a provider in a while now. Do you think that I'm being a bit of a mangina for doing this?  

My posts provided a lot of entertainment? hahahaha...  I'm glad someone thought of it that way. I tried my best to be entertaining. :)

Thanks for your reply

I would suggest you negociate to be allowed 1 escort a week (average) if you are up to it...  maybe a challenge for her to keep you satisfied?!   I would not agree to this as an ultimatum.  I wouldn't draw a line in the sand as any relationship should be an evolution.    
You have gone this far.  I think you owe it to yourself to give it a honest chance of success.  There are lots of former providers out there.  
Stop seeing escorts & friends with benifits...   maybe but don't delete your address book or TER account.

Which is why I changed my handle. Not that a person with half a brain can't figure out. hahaha

Yeah, that's a good strategy actually. Even 1 every month I'll take! haha

But then again, at this moment I honestly don't have much interest seeing anyone else. Isn't that odd?

where it is all about the money and there is no sexual gratification. I understand that I am in a small minority or at least have never seen another hooker admit this. I cannot be the only one though so, she could be telling the truth.

Her gratification, if she is to believed comes in green.

My guess is that's just cuz you've never met someone like me.  

Not sure where I heard this from but "It's my duty to please that bootie."   Lol

Actually if you have ever reached orgasm during sex with client,  I'd argue that you got some sexual gratification since you have busted a nut. Squirting or Cumming both count as gratification,  correct?

But some give the most amazing massages, so does pleasure from that count?

No a person does not have to feel sexual gratification from climax, climax with release, or climax with out release.

 
Observe the word gratification http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/gratification

gratification  

1. the act of gratifying or the state of being gratified

2. something that gratifies

3. an obsolete word for gratuity  

People can climax with out felling gratitude - a feeling of thankfulness or appreciation, as for gifts or favours

Now look at the word gratuity http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/gratuity

1. a gift or reward, usually of money, for services rendered; tip

2. something given without claim or obligation

3. (military) a financial award granted for long or meritorious service

 
People can climax with out claiming a sexual partner, or giving obligation to their sexual partner

No way she can ask you to do that.  Sounds like shes playing you.  If she wants equal rights then get a real job this is not meant to be a career.  If she truly is NOT playing you she should shut that door to her past and you both better your lives together.  What if your friend books her how would that convo  go between you and your friend at the next get together she attends with you?  If you ask me dose her with her own meds and dont give up the hobby.  Do what YOU want, looks like shes going to.

Considering she paid for most of the vacation on our last trip (off the clock).  

Some guys like quad seem to doubt this and calls me a liar, but I don't give a shit if people don't believe it or not. I know this girl is for real.

She genuinely likes me for who I am and nothing else. That's all that matters.  

She didn't even know that I make several times more than what I told her initially. This is why I know she's for real and isn't playing me. It's also the reason why I take her requests seriously too.

ChiTownHeaux1359 reads

Are you truly in love?

Just to be clear she was a paid provider to you then you both fell in love?

If you both fell in LOVE then I think for the sake of your relationship you BOTH need to quit the hobby. This can not be a one sided restriction. Claiming that it is simply her livelihood or for you that it is just sex is bullshit because you both are proof that the lines can be blurred and crossed of you.  

Do you trust her does she trust you?

With out love or trust it it is deemed for failure.  

IF she were to quit but that means she has to find a real job and obviously won't be paying for dinners/furniture/bills then what? No convenience factor so no want for a future with her? For hypothetical reasons lets suppose that it wouldn't necessarily mean she has no savings nor that she lacks the proper educational/experience to get a job. More so that it would simply take time to find one she feels she likes and gets compensated with what she desires.  

Also, you have claimed to have done this live-in arrangement before with other escorts before and it has failed are these the escort/friends who you keep in touch with? The same ones who you also thought you loved at one point? Yea, why would she if she is number x want you speaking to numbers a-w who also lived with you or had blurred lines in a provider/client relationship. It is apparent you both do not stick to only sex in your endeavours.  

I say don't go for it if the only reason is the reasoning of the convenience factors. It should be because you both love each other and are willing to compromise and do whatever sacrifices it should entail equally so not one sacrificing more than the other

Of course.  But I've been around long enough that it's wiser not to turn this into some e harmony thing lol

Its true that it's hard for a monger to turn exclusive.  
It's also true that relationships with active providers are not conventional.  

All I know is that I am willing to accept her for who she is and everything else.  It's nice that the girl I'm seeing knows about the hobby and my mongering since she's in the business herself,  it's nice that I don't have to hide anything and we're open about our wishes. I really am not a good liar cuz it's written in my face when I lie about something lol

I'm actually looking forward to this committed loving relationship.  

Now it will take some serious effort to fight any temptations but,  for now,  I am mentally preparing myself to leave the hobby ... once again.

ChiTownHeaux1006 reads

As a long time lurker, only recent poster I am a fan of yours and I wish you luck in your relationship. You never know unless you try but if you try give it your best!  

Personally and hypothetically speaking, if I was in your situation I would be happy he understands but would not ask him to quit. Not until we both mutually want to and if we both decide we miss it then I would probably go the swingers route. Not that I have experienced that other lifestyle but would be worth it to try to avoid the p4p lifestyle and something we (my imaginary hobbyist/bf lol) could experience together.  

I agree that a hobbyist and even provider may have a hard time in an exclusive relationship for various reasons.

For the record, I have never fallen in love with a client.

-- Modified on 10/13/2014 1:49:24 AM

Hmm interesting....  

How come you never fell in love with a client? Do you find them all unattractive or something or are you simply blocking them out from your mind due to whatever reason?  

I'm guessing your clientelle are mostly Chinese if you're in chi town.  
Ni shi zonguo ren ma? Wo shi hanguo ren.  

I dont think there's a need to leave the boards but if I'm not looking for perspective escort to see then my guess is the interest will subside. Once the girl leaves the business,  maybe

GaGambler1327 reads

I've been involved in several LTR's since joining TER, and during a few of them I quit seeing other women, but I still didn't lose interest in running my mouth here. lol

I don't really come onto TER looking for hookers to see, especially now that I live in Dallas where TER is not really that popular. I do use the reviews a bit, but that is far from my primary reason for being here.

Have you thought about her putting some limitations on how much she will work since she has put limitations on you seeing hookers. You know a "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" type of thing. I take it money is not really the issue, it's her maintaining her independence. Why not say something like she can see only four clients a week, that might ensure that she has enough sex drive left over for you. Just a thought, and I don't even know if it's a good one.

A provider I know with a significant other will work a week or so and take a week off. She's in with the work phone off and then out on business. Seems like a pretty good way to have the best of both worlds.

Some providers I know work "seasonally".  They work for several months and then take several months off.  

I think that's also a good idea but then keeping a regular schedule is good too.

Once a girl has kids, it might be better to be "seasonal", IMO.  Due to school schedules mainly.

Zangari1400 reads

Consider the power relationship that will exist between the two of you:  
 Her: sex with her regular clients & anonymous strangers (new clients) anytime she wants.
 You:  faithful to the Queen Bee.  

 The idea of living with a provider feeds your ego (mongers pay but I don't).  Actually you will pay a great deal by the end of this short-lived arrangement.  And the people who are wagering on the over/under duration of this idiotic arrangement are spot-on.    

 Providers often mention the emotional/erotic difference between boyfriends versus clients (even favorite clients).  I'm sure that's true.  But most providers I've known well who've been in the business for a while had to give up their boyfriends.  My ATF once said "men are jealous, possessive and can't handle what I do".  That rings true for just about all men except pimps.  If your provider had left the sex trade, was working a regular job, and had looked you up--then O.K.

 But that's not the situation here.  So understand this: You're not a traditional bf.  You're a client and  wannabe-boyfriend.  My Magic 8 Ball says that in your new living arrangement, she'll find any excuse to avoid having sex with you.  Because you will be a drone.  So don't do it. --z

She will not be putting her best foot forward on an everyday basis. So he will get to see the real girlfriend, not the one that pastes on a smile and oohs and aahhhs at every touch and word he utters. She can refuse shit she might have to do in the "work" world.  

Personally if I were to date a john, I would not mind at all his other dalliances within the hobby. Who knows, I might join in!

I like that attitude! :)


 Personally if I were to date a john, I would not mind at all his other dalliances within the hobby. Who knows, I might join in!

As a provider, I have a few questions for Drunken Asian.
  * What makes you feel uncomfortable with her fucking guys for cash?
  * Is she getting more satisfaction with the Hobbyists/Client then she is with you?
  * Are you worried that she won't want to have sex with you as much if she continues to be
     a provider?
  * Is it really fair that you fuck for free and she fucks for money?  
  * Is she doing it for pleasure or money?
  * Is she able to say "It's strictly a job & Nothing more" ?
  * Are you insecure with who you are with and her devotion to you?  
   
 I don't do it for the pleasure!! I do this for the cash!! I can separate what I do as a provider & my personal life. I do not live in a fantasy land. No fairy tails here.

* What makes you feel uncomfortable with her fucking guys for cash?

The fact that she's sleeping with another guy? LOL
 
 * Is she getting more satisfaction with the Hobbyists/Client then she is with you?

I don't know the answer to that. However, considering she's with me and not them, I'm guessing she likes me more. I'm not exactly casanova don juan in bed though, but I do know that I can last a very long time since I can control and sometimes have difficulty cumming when I drink/smoke too much.  

  * Are you worried that she won't want to have sex with you as much if she continues to be
     a provider?

That's not really a worry. I really meant it as a joke in my post. However, if it becomes excessive and I get blue balls because she had a long day, then it would become a problem.  

  * Is it really fair that you fuck for free and she fucks for money?  

Yes its fair because this is a real relationship. A boyfriend does not pay his girlfriend to have sex, vice versa, even if she's an escort.  

  * Is she doing it for pleasure or money?  

She does it for money (at work).  With me, plasure, (i think).  

  * Is she able to say "It's strictly a job & Nothing more" ?

Yes that's what she says all the time.  

  * Are you insecure with who you are with and her devotion to you?  

No I'm not insecure about her, knowing that she's really into me. I used to get jealous somewhat in my early age but at my age now, I got over some of that.  

If I had it strictly my way, I'd fuck every escort in sight till I got bored. that's the brutal truth of a monger.

Jokes on that last part aside, I would prefer that she retire and settle for less of a high life that she seems to have gotten used to from this business. But, asking a monger who's used to seeing 2~3 girls a week to suddenly quit seeing escorts........ while she still works as an escort? It's something to really think about. I guess I'm probably gonna end up going along with it, who knows. lol damn it...  

I'm going to respond as if I'm taking you halfway seriously....
it is never fair and any relationship for 1 party to ask the other party for something they are unwilling to give them selves, in this case that would be monogamy.  
although if you will allow for the sake of fairness...
I will indeed conceed that however there's a very different perspective sex wise from hobbyiest to provider... it's not like she is going out shopping for hot guys to fuck.
providers rarely ever get that mythical unicorn of the hot guy
who is going to screw your brains out the right way...no no no...  if the world were actually a fair place for every client she saw, you would be getting sent a random chick, but not one of your own choosing, ha!!! Perhaps if somebody else got to choose it would be a little more fair... but considering that this lady is asking you to completely stop and become monogamous, is not only unfair and preposterous, it is also a control move.  
I myself have a guy I do have feelings for however we do have 100 percent full disclosure... since I'm not about to stop providing, I would never even consider asking him to be monogamous. as a matter of fact were not -really "together,"-we both agree that it's too confusing to put any labels on right now... it's simply is what it is.  

mark my words no good will come from her asking you to do or commit to something she is unwilling to commit to herself.

my recommendation would be to counter her proposal with 1 that includes a better fairness...

and before she drops a boatload of money on your residence, have an agreement written up in writing that she will sign..cover your ass. Incase it goes sour... js..  
you don't want to be sued later down the road.

Goodluck lol

ell, to clarify, it's not like she came out pointing a gun at me demanding it. It was more like a wish of hers although she did request it from me.  

Also, wouldn't it be insulting to ask a girl to sign papers like that? I am not worried about the remodeling thing, we're planning on doing the work ourselves since it would be more fun together.  

She offered to pay for the material costs though, which she can probably rake in after a weekend's worth of work. lol  I'm highly doubting she's the evil type who'll back stab me later on. I don't tend to date such types. Fortunately, I attract the nicer and more sane girls.  

As for your "half seriously comment", the paragraph from me you quoted was about a runnning inside joke which isn't really inside anymore since I've been posting different variations of "is this fair, what if it doesn't sell, remember x existed before y existed" jokes since several months ago. lol  

I thought since this thread was about fairness, it inevitiably transitioned to mentioning that old joke again.  

At any rate, it appears you and I have the same or similar thought regarding this topic. Maybe every girl views it differently

Zangari1511 reads

The argument being made repeatedly on this thread regarding  'Job' (provider) vs 'Hobby' (client) needs to be questioned.  The logic here is that the 'Job' is a necessity while the 'Hobby' is entertainment.  The semantics are unique within the TER bubble and other groups like it.  

 Someone outside the TER bubble might cast the issue this way:  This is a black market with buyers & sellers.  Both activities are voluntary and illegal.  A 'seller' isn't forced to sell anything, nor is the buyer under duress.  Both are voluntary, high risk activities.  A provider doesn't have to sell sex--there are other jobs  available to her.  A client doesn't have to buy sex--he can buy other things or save his income.  Both groups *choose* to do it because the money & thrills are worth the risk.  

 Imagine trying to justify the necessity of the 'job' to someone not involved in the sex trade.  They would look at you with amazement.  I think a lot of people here have fallen into group-think.  Consider the drug trade.  Can a dealer justify that it's a 'job', while for the junkie/recreational user, it's just 'entertainment'.  A cop/judge/jury isn't going to buy that.  Nor will anyone else outside the bubble.  Wake up. --z

It's a black market here!  

But in other countries, it's legal and as difficult as it may be to accept it for civvie men and cultural stigma, it really can be considered 'just another legal job' for those girls.  

In united states of america, maybe not so

GaGambler1481 reads

Most hookers see things that way that DA's squeeze does, and most guys see it rather differently than the women. Why is anyone surprised about this?

This is not a matter of "who is right?" and "who is wrong?" here. It's a matter of "can they make it work?" and find some common ground. Obviously they "can" as others have made it work, the real question is "will" they, and only they will know, and it's doubtful that even they will know for sure for quite some time to come.

Zangari1465 reads

understand the sentiment that "love is irrational".  There's some truth to that.  But if we're going to make an argument for/against anything, we should try to be 'rational'.  The OP is looking for objective advice--he's  in love (or at least infatuated) with this provider, and he's smart enough to know that his judgment is clouded.  But the rest of us are *not* in love with this provider, so we should try to make logical arguments.  

 The problem with the proposed arrangement is the power in the relationship is skewed.  I stated that if they both dropped out of the sex trade, that would be a fair start to a relationship. Another possibility, floated by  hbyist+truth=;( is that they both stay active  within the sex trade.  That's also fair.  

 What I'm disputing is the provider's moral claim, as follows: since the sex trade is her *job*,  she's justified to stay in while forbidding him to do the same.  That argument is problematic, as stated in my previous post.  He's a buyer, she's a seller in the black market.  Neither one has a moral claim over the other.    --z

She, in her job sees men she does not choose from a attraction perspective.  

He can have sex with random women but she chooses them for him, so that he has sex but most likely won't be the kind of sex he would have if he chose his hookers by attractiveness. They can be hookers but she chooses them

Zangari1359 reads

Posted By: hbyist+truth=;(
She, in her job sees men she does not choose from a attraction perspective.  He can have sex with random women but she chooses them for him, so that he has sex but most likely won't be the kind of sex he would have if he chose his hookers by attractiveness. They can be hookers but she chooses them.  
 The OP is a 'buyer' in the sex trade,  which means independent choices.  A provider is a seller, & also free to sell (or not sell) to whoever she wants.  You screen clients based on your own subjective criteria & comfort level.  A client also screens based on his subjective criteria--most likely based on beauty, but other factors come into play (friendliness, chemistry, trust, etc).  

 As a seller, part of your screening process *could* include attractiveness. You can require a new client to send a photo.  In the sugar world, I can't even meet an SB for a lunch date until I send her recent photos. That's just Step #1 of the SB screen, which is quite rigorous--typically including several lunch dates & then *maybe* I bed her.  An SB is also a seller in the sex trade.  She screens just like you, but more stringently.  --z  

-- Modified on 10/14/2014 4:49:27 PM

. . . only what seems fair to the both of you.  

Emotional entanglement with others does threaten relationships generally, assuming you aren't both open to polyamory.  It seems completely reasonable to me that you pledge and hold onto the pledge to give up and cease contact with all civilian FWB's.  If she sees the P4P as no emotion sexual release than what would be her objection to your occasional appointment?  Propose something low volume, like no more than 6 times a year and no repeats within a year.  

Economic independence is a big deal. Would you be willing to give up sex with others if she did?  Then to be "fair" you would need to replace the income flow she would give up.  Ask her how long she plans to escort.  Then buy an annuity that replaces 2/3 of that income for that period of years.  If she has an ambition for work outside the sex industry (or at least outside of HER providing the sex) then pay for any educational needs she has to get there.  She can do some work to make up the 1/3 difference.  


-- Modified on 10/14/2014 10:06:14 AM

Register Now!