TER General Board

it boils down to culpability and personal responsibility.
MissErinBlack See my TER Reviews 1729 reads
posted

Look.  We all know that this happens. For a million different reasons at that. I used to get angry when I'd get asked for BBFS, but I don't anymore.  Why? Because it's not worth my time or energy to get upset about it.  
Everyone has the right to do whatever they choose to do with their own body.  If two people consensually come to the conclusion that BBFS is on the table, it's honestly none of my business.  None.  Just like it's none of my business what my clients do outside of their time with me.  

Quite frankly, even if my clients' sexual health and practices were my business, I'd have no way of knowing if any of them were being truthful.  My clients are only accountable to themselves concerning their sex and sex practices.  Thinking altruistically is admirable; knowing that playing responsibly keeps everyone safer is how people who engage in any type of sex, P4P or not, should think.  But it would be naive and irresponsible of me as a provider to expect people to know about risk reduction or to play 100% of the time with risk-reduction in mind.  

The only actions any of us can be sure about are our own. You're not down with BBFS? Then don't fucking do it. There's no shifting of blame here.  Does coercion exist? Of course it does.  But an offer is nowhere near coercion.  

ALSO CAN WE PLEASE STOP REFERRING TO TESTING STI-NEGATIVE AS BEING "CLEAN"?  I mean, really. it's not 1990; just because someone tests positive for an STI does not mean that person is "dirty".  Not to mention, you weren't feeling "bad" about your BBFS experience due to the risk of exposure you posed to the person who offered.  You felt bad because you felt she had put you at risk, and she even knew it.  You both put each other at risk.   You made the decision to engage in a risky activity and then made the provider feel bad about it? Malarky.  

Be fucking grown-ups.  If you decide to engage in a high-risk activity, own your actions.  Don't pawn your poor decision-making off onto others, or try to re-frame the situation to make yourself look like an innocent.  We all have these things; they're called autonomy and volition. Use them to make an informed decision.  


-- Modified on 9/25/2014 10:18:08 AM

Let's skip all the posturing on the evils of BBFS. I hope you'll assume for the duration of your time reading - and hopefully participating constructively - in this thread, that we have all read and understood the data on unprotected sex and made our own informed (yeah, yeah, debatable, I know) decisions.

What I really want to know is what's up with all the offers from providers? And here I mean even from providers who are known as covered only. I will not mention any names or even give hints. I hope no one else will, either. That's not what this is about.  

Let me give you an example. I was with one provider and we were having a great time. This was the second time I'd seen her. I like to practice my DATY technique. It is both fun and gives mutual pleasure. I get a genuine blast out of being with a beautiful woman who is letting me share a wild O with her. So, that's what happened. And then she said "I want your come inside me". And she meant it. She clarified to make sure I understood. No cover. It was wildly flattering and tempting and I thanked her but did not indulge. We finished off and I had a pretty great time, too.

I'm not going to quote how often this happens. But let's just say it is far from infrequent.

And I'm not totally innocent either. I like to play with P2P and I adore a bareback blowjob. Especially if CIM is an option. Yes, I know. Risky. More risky for her than for me. So, selfishly risky, too. Though I have had the ole vasectomy. So that risk is gone at least.

I'm not looking to change the world here. I just want to understand something I find confusing. And kinda frustrating. It's effing hard to say no to this. I will further admit that twice I didn't say no. Felt horrible. Didn't go back. Testing clean. Bullet dodged. One time the girl realized how bad I felt about it. She kept trying to gently reassure me "Honey, it's OK. I'm clean. You're OK." Didn't help.

So, yeah. There's that. I'm clearly a wuss, too. Sigh.

So, can y'all give me some constructive feedback on the topic of why providers offer unsolicited bareback sometimes? And the best ways you've found to gently and positively circumvent this? I've taken to just bringing my own condoms. That seems to be helping a lot.

But I'd appreciate other thoughts on this.

-- Modified on 9/24/2014 10:11:41 AM

wrps073011 reads

So she can service more clients with bbfs.

If you been hobbying a while you will find out a few providers have retired as a result of becoming pregnant from hobbyists.

wrps072428 reads

I wonder who knocked up that $400 hour provider that had a miscarriage.... What about that one who charging $350 an hour up in you fill in the blank lol.

That doesn't sound like a bp providers to me lol.

Pregnancy is not a worry for me. I had a vasectomy a long time ago. But that's not the issue. I'm trying to understand what I need to know or change to better handle this situation.

-- Modified on 9/24/2014 12:33:04 PM

-- Modified on 9/24/2014 1:48:17 PM

GaGambler1927 reads

offers of BBFS happen here, it appears that several posters here either don't have as much experience as they claim, they are simply in denial, or they are so repulsive no one has ever made the offer to them. lol

My advice is that if you value your health, follow Nancy Reagan's advice and "just say no"

I do find it amusing that women with kids make the claim that they NEVER do BBFS with anyone. I guess there should be a lot of non hispanic kids named "Jesus"  shouldn't there? lmao

In my opinion, anything unprotected can lead to more than just unwanted pregnancy or diseases,  but unwanted and unnecessary emotions. I dont want to carry the emotions or anothers Dna within me. The thought really creeps me out.

A bare stripper slide which was not asked for, nor really appreciated.  Told the gal so too!  One minute we were DFK and groping, the next she jumps on while I'm freaking out.  She tells me, relax, I'm not putting it inside, just rubbing the underside with my labia.  I told her to get off me.  Just like that.  We covered up and continued but I wasn't happy and have not repeated.  That was a coupla years ago and have since tested clean several times.  Scary shit man.

Playing with my life is not my idea of fun.

Seriously????  These bullshit threads from guys about BBFS gets on my bloody tits.

Way more guys push for bbfs than there are girls who offer it and yet here you are pushing all the blame on a girl for putting your life at risk????   Are you for real?

Being sexually active puts everyone at risk, being in this industry puts us at a higher risk because of the number of girls/clients you/we see.  But the number of people of who do bbfs in this industry is way less than the number of people who do bbfs in civvie land.

We have to trust in you guys also that you are clean and if you're not then that's the RISK WE TAKE each and every time we see a client.  Oh hold on, do some of you idiots think that because us girls are getting paid that the risk is with us and comes with the territory???

The risk is on BOTH sides and wanting to blame someone goes out the window once you engage in any sexual activity.

You want to scream and holla about taking precautions and yet i would put money on it that most of you go out on a date in civvie land and fuck the girl without any concerns over safety.  

And guess what, you would BOTH be responsible for your actions, not just the girl and not just the guy, BOTH, whether it would be with precautions or without.  And the same goes for this industry.

And i'm not going to even bother about the guys that see men and TS's and then want to come play with us.

If you don't want to RISK getting an STD or something worse, then i would suggest you keep it in your pants or use your hand and stop bloody pushing all the blame onto the girl

Posted By: ShaunnaMinx
Seriously????  These bullshit threads from guys about BBFS gets on my bloody tits.  
   
 Way more guys push for bbfs than there are girls who offer it and yet here you are pushing all the blame on a girl for putting your life at risk????   Are you for real?  
   
 Being sexually active puts everyone at risk, being in this industry puts us at a higher risk because of the number of girls/clients you/we see.  But the number of people of who do bbfs in this industry is way less than the number of people who do bbfs in civvie land.  
   
 We have to trust in you guys also that you are clean and if you're not then that's the RISK WE TAKE each and every time we see a client.  Oh hold on, do some of you idiots think that because us girls are getting paid that the risk is with us and comes with the territory???  
   
 The risk is on BOTH sides and wanting to blame someone goes out the window once you engage in any sexual activity.  
   
 You want to scream and holla about taking precautions and yet i would put money on it that most of you go out on a date in civvie land and fuck the girl without any concerns over safety.    
   
 And guess what, you would BOTH be responsible for your actions, not just the girl and not just the guy, BOTH, whether it would be with precautions or without.  And the same goes for this industry.  
   
 And i'm not going to even bother about the guys that see men and TS's and then want to come play with us.  
   
 If you don't want to RISK getting an STD or something worse, then i would suggest you keep it in your pants or use your hand and stop bloody pushing all the blame onto the girl.  
   
 
Yes there are stupid asses that push for it.  I am not one.  I was simply relaying an experience when it was close to it that I backed off from. So get off your high horse and read what I said, as an individual and stop lumping me in with all the other tricks that you so obviously despise.

I confess. I did have one ulterior motive.
At the time I posted this I was really pissed at a fellow mongerer who happened to know who my ATF is. Said mongerer became a regular with her and then began insisting on getting bbfs and other services (which I don't get) because he was sure I was getting them. Then stopped seeing her and started passing alleged messages from her that she was mad at me and didn't want to see me anymore.  
Once I got to the truth of it I was kinda pissed.
So, I started wondering how I could distance myself from this opinion that this other mongerer - and apparently some unknowable number of others - had about my indulging in bbfs. And I realized that I could just bring up this topic that I've been curious about anyway.  
I figured it was worth a try. And, even if it didn't help with the original problem, I'd get this off my chest and have an interesting discussion while I was at it.
So, there you go

I can't understand why either party would see the need for BBFS. Sure it feels great. But....DANGER DANGER, Will Robinson. We are all adults who should be practicing safe sex. I know. LOL. But I firmly believe sex with an escort is much safer then sex with a women I might meet in the lounge at  a hotel. I could rant for a while, but I just don't see this as being something that we need to deal with. We live in a world that SAFE SEX is important. Move on to CIM or no CIM, That is the question

So I will try to answer as a civvie.  I am guessing it's because she feels connected to you. When the sex is amazing, it's easy for those lines to get blurred.  I honestly do not believe that BBFS is being offered to every client.  There is no way she is feeling that connection with every person that walks through the door.  And she wouldn't offer it to someone she isn't feeling connected to.

VOO-doo1731 reads

That's BULL****.  

I've KNOWN providers who did BBFS. It was all about $$. Either they were negotiating for higher reviews (explicitly or implicitly), or were told that BBFS would make the client more likely to repeat.  

I was given that exact advice, when I was new. I was told that BBFS would earn higher ratings ('you'll get higher numbers if you do it'), and that my regulars 'would be more loyal' if I provided this service. Because I did not respond positively to those statements, I did not receive the additional advice that other (newer, younger, or dumber) girls did: 'We KNOW this guy. He's fine, he's nice, he's clean. He's seen [[insert names here]] and THEY did it. Just do it with a FEW guys. They will give you 10's. That will give you a great start. Then you can choose to do it or not do it w/the rest.' But I heard about it from them later. This was back in 2009. I imagine it's only gotten worse since then.

When I had a BF, we NEVER had BBFS. I was not honest with him about what I did for a living, but I cared too much for him to have BBFS with him, when I was having sex with multiple partners per month. I wore condoms each time, every time, with everybody. I knew that there were still risks, and I wouldn't have wanted to expose anybody I cared about to even 0.001% of those risks.  

If a girl offers BBFS because she's feeling 'connected' then she should just fuck the guy for free...if she feels THAT connected, why not? :-S

I think that this is what BBFS clients WANT to believe. PLEASE don't feed into it. Sharing is NOT caring. Mutual responsibility is caring

VOO-doo1672 reads

I think girls who do it w/clients, without being coerced or offered incentives (money, reviews, or the implicit or explicit promise of repeat business) are often girls who don't know who to say 'no'.  

I've had clients BEG me for BBFS. Try to guilt me into it, try to act hurt, try to act insulted, try to make promises 'I'm clean, I've been with only you and my wife since 1989. I'd never do this w/anybody else.' I've even heard 'I love you.' And 'Just for a second, PLEASE.' Yep, sure!!!

If a girl succumbs to this type of manipulation, it's not because she feels 'connected' with said client. She probably just doesn't have the confidence to say no. And she might not be educated enough, either. Some girls are ridiculously uninformed about STD risks, and will believe whatever some dude tells her. 'If he looks clean, chances are he is clean,' is something I actually heard a 15-year legendary veteran say.

To me, your comment epitomizes the way stupid clients think. You said that you spoke as a civvie. I do think that clients look at p4p as very similar to civvie sex, where providers are more inclined to compartmentalize. I'm speaking in generalities, of course. But personally, I won't EVER treat or think of a client like my future husband w/whom I'm exclusive, no matter how grateful to him I might be for something he's done. I like a lot of my clients a great deal, but if one of them asked me for BBFS, I'd shut down.

Bad/misguided advice makes sense. Thanks for putting that into perspective.

Yes there could be a very small proportion of BBFS offerings that could be a function of the connection felt, but a lot of the gals like to live on the edge.  While it may not be offered to every client, but if she is offering to one, then there is a good chance she is offering to more.  

I would like to think of it as overall recklessness or trying to gain loyalty. Thinking that a guy who is offered BBFS will come back for more and become a loyal client.

The amount of folks going BBFS in P4P is significant.  And in many cases from those who scream and yell (or at least did at some point) the loudest denouncing BBFS.

One gal that I never ever thought would go BBFS babbled to me about thinking she may be pregnant.  This same gal had also babbled that doing a stripper slide was quite OK as she was told that from her "friend".   And this isn't some gal who just fell off the turnip truck!

As well many gals will provide BBFS for scores, bucks or just because "she forgot a condom"  LOL    And no shortage of dudes who happily engage in this practice as well.

As for "her" offering it to someone she isn't connected to...that's just pie in the sky thinking.  The only connections here are that both teams play for Benjamin Franklin.  Beyond that it is rare for anything more...and generally without Ben those additional "connections" tend to end quickly.

Too bad we didn't connect when you were in Chicago a few months back.  Drop me a line if you find your way back here.  I changed my handle a few months ago....but you knew me as chgoCPA  ;)

Posted By: swingsbothways
So I will try to answer as a civvie.  I am guessing it's because she feels connected to you. When the sex is amazing, it's easy for those lines to get blurred.  I honestly do not believe that BBFS is being offered to every client.  There is no way she is feeling that connection with every person that walks through the door.  And she wouldn't offer it to someone she isn't feeling connected to.  

I was perfectly happy to keep my mouth shut, but you're getting so much backlash.

I've been tempted a few times, in my own head.  Not because someone asked, that would definitely turn me off (Yes, I get the irony...) and... Once... I did make the offer.  I'd seen him several, several times, we'd been talking and laughing, and I just felt especially connected.  Legitimately, he probably is perfectly safe.  I, on the other hand, am a hooker so he definitely made the right call and I would've felt super guilty the next day.

You guys, why so cynical about EVERYTHING?

GaGambler1734 reads

I have a rather large sample size over the forty years or so that I have been doing this, and I can state as an absolute fact that MANY women are offering BBFS, and offering it at times to guys they only met a few minutes before. It happens and all the denials in the world is not going to change that fact. Somehow I doubt that any woman is going to feel that strong a connection with me after knowing me for all of ten minutes, much less several.

FWIW, yes I have engaged in BBFS with more than one woman who is/was a sex provider. but keep in mind that I have been in several LTRs with women in this business. To do so with a woman you just met a few minutes earlier is not exactly a wise choice,  I think EVERYBODY knows that, but it doesn't stop it from happening.

I have no basis to speak on how often BBFS is offered, or why it might be offered to a first timer.

I was countering all the "Don't be an idiot" comments to the poster who said "sometimes it's because they feel a connection."

Unless you're assuming he is also a prostitute?
Believe me, I've been a "date" to enough HIV research conferences. (You like that? Lol)  Plus I understand math...

And I have the same private health insurance I've had for years.  But you do sound like you excelled on the debate team, so if you have any other points you'd like to discuss... *eye roll*

Thanks, Marie. I appreciate the support.

It was probably borderline idiotic of me to expect an open discussion on this topic in the forum.

Posted By: useyrhead
Let's skip all the posturing on the evils of BBFS. I hope you'll assume for the duration of your time reading - and hopefully participating constructively - in this thread, that we have all read and understood the data on unprotected sex and made our own informed (yeah, yeah, debatable, I know) decisions.  
   
 What I really want to know is what's up with all the offers from providers? And here I mean even from providers who are known as covered only. I will not mention any names or even give hints. I hope no one else will, either. That's not what this is about.  
   
 Let me give you an example. I was with one provider and we were having a great time. This was the second time I'd seen her. I like to practice my DATY technique. It is both fun and gives mutual pleasure. I get a genuine blast out of being with a beautiful woman who is letting me share a wild O with her. So, that's what happened. And then she said "I want your come inside me". And she meant it. She clarified to make sure I understood. No cover. It was wildly flattering and tempting and I thanked her but did not indulge. We finished off and I had a pretty great time, too.  
   
 I'm not going to quote how often this happens. But let's just say it is far from infrequent.  
   
 And I'm not totally innocent either. I like to play with P2P and I adore a bareback blowjob. Especially if CIM is an option. Yes, I know. Risky. More risky for her than for me. So, selfishly risky, too. Though I have had the ole vasectomy. So that risk is gone at least.  
   
 I'm not looking to change the world here. I just want to understand something I find confusing. And kinda frustrating. It's effing hard to say no to this. I will further admit that twice I didn't say no. Felt horrible. Didn't go back. Testing clean. Bullet dodged. One time the girl realized how bad I felt about it. She kept trying to gently reassure me "Honey, it's OK. I'm clean. You're OK." Didn't help.  
   
 So, yeah. There's that. I'm clearly a wuss, too. Sigh.  
   
 So, can y'all give me some constructive feedback on the topic of why providers offer unsolicited bareback sometimes? And the best ways you've found to gently and positively circumvent this? I've taken to just bringing my own condoms. That seems to be helping a lot.  
   
 But I'd appreciate other thoughts on this.  

-- Modified on 9/24/2014 10:11:41 AM

I ALWAYS have my own condoms (and I've had a vasectomy for 10 + years) More than once, providers have "forgotten" to bring condoms. Having my own condoms makes BBFS never an option. I've had a condom break before and I got tested before I played again. Being responsible comes with engaging in P4P ... at least I hope it does.

I have been hobbying for little over 14 years and had my share of ATF’s (still have couple I regularly see) but none of them ever have offered BBFS, ever. I like to keep it that way since I have more fucking to do before I go.

You are one lucky guy!

It seems you have an agenda but you are pretending to be asking a innocent question, like oh poor little old me, girls want BBFS with em, what shall I ever do?  These ladies keep begging ME for BBFS!  Alas!

Seriously.  I laughed out loud when I read this.  You're no damsel in distress and you are definitely looking for name dropping.  Please take some acting lessons before you try this one again.  

Posted By: useyrhead
Let's skip all the posturing on the evils of BBFS. I hope you'll assume for the duration of your time reading - and hopefully participating constructively - in this thread, that we have all read and understood the data on unprotected sex and made our own informed (yeah, yeah, debatable, I know) decisions.  
   
 What I really want to know is what's up with all the offers from providers? And here I mean even from providers who are known as covered only. I will not mention any names or even give hints. I hope no one else will, either. That's not what this is about.  
   
 Let me give you an example. I was with one provider and we were having a great time. This was the second time I'd seen her. I like to practice my DATY technique. It is both fun and gives mutual pleasure. I get a genuine blast out of being with a beautiful woman who is letting me share a wild O with her. So, that's what happened. And then she said "I want your come inside me". And she meant it. She clarified to make sure I understood. No cover. It was wildly flattering and tempting and I thanked her but did not indulge. We finished off and I had a pretty great time, too.  
   
 I'm not going to quote how often this happens. But let's just say it is far from infrequent.  
   
 And I'm not totally innocent either. I like to play with P2P and I adore a bareback blowjob. Especially if CIM is an option. Yes, I know. Risky. More risky for her than for me. So, selfishly risky, too. Though I have had the ole vasectomy. So that risk is gone at least.  
   
 I'm not looking to change the world here. I just want to understand something I find confusing. And kinda frustrating. It's effing hard to say no to this. I will further admit that twice I didn't say no. Felt horrible. Didn't go back. Testing clean. Bullet dodged. One time the girl realized how bad I felt about it. She kept trying to gently reassure me "Honey, it's OK. I'm clean. You're OK." Didn't help.  
   
 So, yeah. There's that. I'm clearly a wuss, too. Sigh.  
   
 So, can y'all give me some constructive feedback on the topic of why providers offer unsolicited bareback sometimes? And the best ways you've found to gently and positively circumvent this? I've taken to just bringing my own condoms. That seems to be helping a lot.  
   
 But I'd appreciate other thoughts on this.  

-- Modified on 9/24/2014 10:11:41 AM

Plus it is damaging to the hobby we all enjoy by having ANOTHER BBFS thread for newbies and the unsophisticated to point to as normal.  This OP is either irresponsible or manipulative, or both.  I didn't laugh, though, so you are a better person than I, Alexandra.

And more important is to openly discuss that BBFS is far from an anomaly here.

If you want to pretend that NONE of the gals you've reviewed aren't going BBFS with others...shame on you.  

It's your choice to not partake...but to condemn others for engaging in this is simply wrong.  Suit up and do the best you can to protect YOURSELF....and assume that EVERY gal is going BBFS with someone.  That certainly doesn't mean she's carrying an STD...but if those issues are of concern to you or any other john...maybe this is just not the arena you should be playing in.

Try a plastic blow-up doll.

Posted By: hardknocks6
Plus it is damaging to the hobby we all enjoy by having ANOTHER BBFS thread for newbies and the unsophisticated to point to as normal.  This OP is either irresponsible or manipulative, or both.  I didn't laugh, though, so you are a better person than I, Alexandra.

As I've posted a few times on this thread that I am quite aware (as are others here) of how prevalent BBFS is in P4P.  To pretend that it's not happening is naive...apparently you are one of those naive ones?

As I told you on an earlier post...all you need do is look at YOUR reviews and ask which of those gals are exactly who the OP was referring to.

If you honestly want to believe that NONE of them are going BBFS with others...that's fine.  But truth be told all you're doing is being ignorant.  And if that's what you need to play here, so be it.

Do what's best for you when playing here...but don't be ignorant of the obvious.

My thought is that ignoring it doesn't help anybody. Trying to understand it just might.

But you are entitled to disagree.

Yeah. You're probably right. I could have written this better. But I'm glad you got a laugh out of it.

I'm not sure anything is going to change your mind. You sound like you have it pretty well made up and nothing I say is going to change it.  

Still, I feel compelled to point out - poor writing aside - that I didn't intend to come across as if I feel like or am a victim. I feel like an inexperienced idiot who needs to figure out how to do this better before he screws up in some major way.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion.

-- Modified on 9/24/2014 8:57:43 PM

You can say you were looking for help or just needed to get this off of our chest but if you really want to talk about why this keeps happening to you I would recommend discussing it in private, with another hobbyist or even trusted provider.  Putting it out there is just that -- putting out out there so that the community can see this problem and TALK about it.  

Really, think about this for one second.  You come off as someone on Facebook complaining about how depressed his is and how hard life is so that all of his friends will start posting comments about how smart, attractive, interesting, wonderful, etc. he is and like the post hundreds of times.  We all have those kind of Facebook friends.  Attention-seekers.  I've hidden most of them.  You're doing the same thing within the context of the hobby.  You're either pretending not to see that or have delusions of grandeur.  

Posted By: useyrhead
Yeah. You're probably right. I could have written this better. But I'm glad you got a laugh out of it.  
   
 I'm not sure anything is going to change your mind. You sound like you have it pretty well made up and nothing I say is going to change it.  
   
 Still, I feel compelled to point out - poor writing aside - that I didn't intend to come across as if I feel like or am a victim. I feel like an inexperienced idiot who needs to figure out how to do this better before he screws up in some major way.  
   
 You are, of course, entitled to your opinion.

-- Modified on 9/24/2014 8:57:43 PM

Dear Alex:
Think about it. The nature and scope in how you ask the question is critical because the main thing that you don't want to happen is for the reader to easily extrapolate the crux of your inquiry. Once one sees how the inquiry and the conversation is navigated then you can easily determine the destination as well as the nature and scope of the inquiry itself.

Skyfyre1667 reads

Surely that are many reasons depending on the individual provider:

1)  Money: like somebody said first and foremost it could be because she wanted a better chance at a good review and/or return business. Despite all the politically-correct feint indignities posted here I'm willing to bet more guys will respond positively than negatively at such offer. It's only logical (and human).

2)  Connection: I wouldn't discount the connection/chemistry angle either. Doesn't have to be that she falls head-over-heel in love with the client but over time she simply becomes more comfortable and lose all inhibition.

3)  Last but not least I can't speak for women but if it feels good to a man I guess it should also feels good to a woman. Might be 2a) as a subset of the previous paragraph.

4)  Most likely to happen to providers who started out providing BBBJ. Except for the fear of pregnancy it's not that much of a stretch to go from BBBJ to BBFS -again especially when it comes to regulars

risk of contracting AIDS from BBBJ is much much lower than the risk from BBFS, and in fact is anecdotal at best. Uh oh, I just articulated "AIDS", is that the first time for this thread? I must be a "mangina".

you don't contract AIDS. You contract HIV and develop AIDS if you go untreated.  

The risk of contracting HIV via oral sex is incredibly low, according to current research. While this may be the case, not very many studies have been done concerning the rate of contracting HIV via oral sex.  

-- Modified on 9/25/2014 9:48:33 AM

GaGambler1894 reads

The leap in risk, especially to the woman, is HUGE when going from BBBJ to BBFS.

It never ceases to amaze me how clueless so many of you are where it comes to the risks involved in the various activities we engage in here. I am not here to judge each individual's informed decision as to  what they consider acceptable risk, but the key word here is an "informed" decision and to state that the risks are comparable simply is not true, not even close.

I appreciate the stalwart few who genuinely tried to answer rather than put forth the usual BBFS rants. Now I understand why some of you thought it best to respond via PM.  

I can assure you that my intent was sincere, though perhaps more than a little naive. I've had more than a handful of these experiences and they keep happening. Though, as I mentioned, they have slowed considerably since I started bringing my own condoms to the session.

I've only been doing this for a couple of years. So, I don't have as much experience as many of you. I am sincerely trying to find better ways to minimize these offers for reasons that I think are obvious. I'm not superman or Ghandi. I don't have an endless supply of willpower. If I did, I might not be doing this at all. But who knows?

So, in my mind, the first step is to attempt to understand what is going on. I've gotten some enlightening responses. Again, truly appreciate those.

My next step is to identify what I am doing to contribute to the problem. I clearly need to own some mixed signals I am sending. Working on that.  

Still internalizing all the feedback. Thanks again for the sincere help.

-- Modified on 9/24/2014 8:10:32 PM

Yup. Me and Alicia Silverstone. We hang out. ;)

GaGambler1584 reads

Clueless is undeniable.

How desperate for $$$$  are you that you offer BBFS???? Hope they get a check up often.... OFTEN!!!!  Learn to save your earnings & make something of yourselves instead of being a skanky whore!!!!  Ya I said it!!! It's amazing how many use thus lifestyle as an easy lazy way out of life.... Instead why not use this as a stepping stone to better yourselves!!! Ridiculous!!!

Thinking they have to.

Girls start getting slow.
Expresses desperation, (which implies others are desperate too.)
Guy tells her the 'industry is changing. All the big money is in BBFS."
Girl feels more desperate.
Guy offers a solution - BBFS then takes some for himself.

That type of manipulation is disgusting. It seems to be requested 'because other girls are doing it' all the time. What fucking idiot emails to see a girl and admits to fucking bb ladies?

I got an email like that last week, and I ripped him a new one via email. I can smell the BS and the Phish from miles away. Stop it.

Maybe some of them are. But that was not my intent here. I am very sorry you took it that way.

My entire point was to develop an understanding of why providers would feel compelled to offer it so that I - and others - can more intelligently and considerately avoid it. Period.

Posted By: Courtney.Ova
Thinking they have to.  
   
 Girls start getting slow.  
 Expresses desperation, (which implies others are desperate too.)  
 Guy tells her the 'industry is changing. All the big money is in BBFS."  
 Girl feels more desperate.  
 Guy offers a solution - BBFS then takes some for himself.  
   
 That type of manipulation is disgusting. It seems to be requested 'because other girls are doing it' all the time. What fucking idiot emails to see a girl and admits to fucking bb ladies?  
   
 I got an email like that last week, and I ripped him a new one via email. I can smell the BS and the Phish from miles away. Stop it.
-- Modified on 9/25/2014 7:44:23 AM

I mean the impetus to be a hooker is the money to start with. Want extra cash, well offer BBFS. There is a market for it and it is more likely than not, an expected up charge.  

And like the ladies that have johns asking for BBFS, you can just say no and bag your parts and either see the lady again making sure you cover, or if it makes you squeamish, you can move on.

If they don't know they have HIV, she gets arrested, she is most likely getting tested. If HIV+ she's not only royally fucked, she has exposed her client list as they will most likely call her contacts after taking anything they can use to research her work. It wouldn't matter if she didn't know. Neglect is known as a huge crime in places infections and diseases are a potential risk.

ALL of her Johns are at risk for that phone call.

A medical facility gets inspected for germs all the time. If they find things like MRSA anywhere, even on a phone, they re-evaluate their practices and sanitation is under the constant watch and regulation. Hand washing, disinfecting with bleach wipes, bathrooms disinfected, etc etc. Someone gets MRSA at a hospital they'll be suing. Hospital can't say "well, we didn't evaluate the risk and prevention, so we didn't know, therefore we are not accountable." Nope. If they didn't take the necessary precautions and safety measures to prevent it.  

Anyone having unprotected intercourse is selfish here. I'm going to take shit for this, but they are potentially risking themselves, the clients, and the - wait for it - innocent bystanders such as wives and or husbands.

We try to turn a blind eye to the negatives of this business instead of at least doing it with some conscious. Yes, the negatives are STD risk. Oh, and death if getting HIV and not telling.

May eyes be opened to the point where people really take into account the dangers of multiple partners and unprotected intercourse.

Any guy who I notice tries to take that condom off secretly, or, 'oops, it fell off and decided to lay neatly beside you' I will never see again and will be get full panel testing. I hear that shit all the time and it is an adult acting s-t-u-p-I-d.

Maybe I'm a chicken, but I'm terrified of HIV. I'm not scared of death, but I'm scared of the journey... The journey of guilt for potentially passing it on.

Let's continue to be safe - for our families, friends, partners, clients, and each other. Many will say 'psssht, whatever' to the warnings, but they have allowed themselves to become blind and careless.

I just think this all should be legalized and regulated.

-- Modified on 9/25/2014 10:51:00 AM

I completely agree. And, I am terrified of HIV as well. I grew up in San Francisco in the 80's & 90's. It's no joke. People were terrified in The City. What was really terrifying as a child was to see sickly homeless people whose HIV had developed into AIDS. I can remember kids skinning their knees on the playground and all the rest of us kids freaking out staying away.  

The speed limit is 55 for a reason. People cannot claim "personal responsibility" when they put others in danger. People can claim it's between those two people, but condom accidents happen with safe providers/clients. They break, they fall off, they get shoved up in there accidentally. It happens on occasion. Just pray it doesn't happen when you're with a hooker or a John that engages in BBFS.

I had that said to me so I handed him my phone as I was getting dressed and told him to call the "others" and set something up. I was done after that.

If you're feeling all these feelings about BBFS then talk to a therapist, don't post in a public board.  People post on a public board because they want to draw ATTENTION to something, not fix a problem.  Fixing problems means finding a deeper meaning to the cause... Not bragging about how he just can't hide from BBFS, the girls are throwing themselves at me, etc.!

I doubt anyone comforted you.  You're just trying to put a possible scenario in the mind of the reader, whether it be a client or provider.  Some newer girls may fall for it. Sone clients may try to get it.  The more talk about it there is on a review board the more it will talked about behind closed doors.  I see the whisper-down-the-lane trail you're trying to create... This entire 'BBFS philosophical question' reeks of bullshit.  You are trying to normalize by starting yet another BBFS thread.  So totally busted.

ROGM1448 reads

Posted By: AlexandraMarie
If you're feeling all these feelings about BBFS then talk to a therapist, don't post in a public board.  People post on a public board because they want to draw ATTENTION to something, not fix a problem.  Fixing problems means finding a deeper meaning to the cause... Not bragging about how he just can't hide from BBFS, the girls are throwing themselves at me, etc.!  
   
 I doubt anyone comforted you.  You're just trying to put a possible scenario in the mind of the reader, whether it be a client or provider.  Some newer girls may fall for it. Sone clients may try to get it.  The more talk about it there is on a review board the more it will talked about behind closed doors.  I see the whisper-down-the-lane trail you're trying to create... This entire 'BBFS philosophical question' reeks of bullshit.  You are trying to normalize by starting yet another BBFS thread.  So totally busted.
 
Well if this is true, then it sounds  like this poster is looking for Providers that offer BBFS. Or at least rationalize to himself about getting BBFS.

ROGM1802 reads

I've never had a Provider offer me BBFSCIP. All of them required the use of a Cover. With my current Provider I had to ask her to go BBFSCIP. But this is after seeing her with a Cover for about 4 months. If a Provider offers you BBFSCIP the very first time you meet her, I wouldn't do it.

To tell what? I don't see much difference, BBFS is BBFS with or without the 4 months.

Look.  We all know that this happens. For a million different reasons at that. I used to get angry when I'd get asked for BBFS, but I don't anymore.  Why? Because it's not worth my time or energy to get upset about it.  
Everyone has the right to do whatever they choose to do with their own body.  If two people consensually come to the conclusion that BBFS is on the table, it's honestly none of my business.  None.  Just like it's none of my business what my clients do outside of their time with me.  

Quite frankly, even if my clients' sexual health and practices were my business, I'd have no way of knowing if any of them were being truthful.  My clients are only accountable to themselves concerning their sex and sex practices.  Thinking altruistically is admirable; knowing that playing responsibly keeps everyone safer is how people who engage in any type of sex, P4P or not, should think.  But it would be naive and irresponsible of me as a provider to expect people to know about risk reduction or to play 100% of the time with risk-reduction in mind.  

The only actions any of us can be sure about are our own. You're not down with BBFS? Then don't fucking do it. There's no shifting of blame here.  Does coercion exist? Of course it does.  But an offer is nowhere near coercion.  

ALSO CAN WE PLEASE STOP REFERRING TO TESTING STI-NEGATIVE AS BEING "CLEAN"?  I mean, really. it's not 1990; just because someone tests positive for an STI does not mean that person is "dirty".  Not to mention, you weren't feeling "bad" about your BBFS experience due to the risk of exposure you posed to the person who offered.  You felt bad because you felt she had put you at risk, and she even knew it.  You both put each other at risk.   You made the decision to engage in a risky activity and then made the provider feel bad about it? Malarky.  

Be fucking grown-ups.  If you decide to engage in a high-risk activity, own your actions.  Don't pawn your poor decision-making off onto others, or try to re-frame the situation to make yourself look like an innocent.  We all have these things; they're called autonomy and volition. Use them to make an informed decision.  


-- Modified on 9/25/2014 10:18:08 AM

I don't get mad either the very few times it has been suggested. I just say no. It's not the guys have bagged it since day one. And if the guys who do ask stop at the one time I still have no issue seeing them. I cover it, all is good.  

If a guy persists, well then to the curb he goes!  

It's like negotiating prices, people can ask, all I can do is either refuse or renegotiate. Getting pissed off for someone asking a question is a waste of my energy.

Well said.

I would like to answer one implied question if I may. I wasn't feeling bad as much about the risk of exposure as I was feeling bad for being an idiot. But I was feeling bad about the risk, too. I will accept the accusation that I may have been more worried about me than I was about her. This is entirely possible. But mostly I was kicking myself for being stupid and inconsiderate.

It is, however, entirely your choice what you choose to believe.

Posted By: MissErinBlack
Look.  We all know that this happens. For a million different reasons at that. I used to get angry when I'd get asked for BBFS, but I don't anymore.  Why? Because it's not worth my time or energy to get upset about it.    
 Everyone has the right to do whatever they choose to do with their own body.  If two people consensually come to the conclusion that BBFS is on the table, it's honestly none of my business.  None.  Just like it's none of my business what my clients do outside of their time with me.  
   
 Quite frankly, even if my clients' sexual health and practices were my business, I'd have no way of knowing if any of them were being truthful.  My clients are only accountable to themselves concerning their sex and sex practices.  Thinking altruistically is admirable; knowing that playing responsibly keeps everyone safer is how people who engage in any type of sex, P4P or not, should think.  But it would be naive and irresponsible of me as a provider to expect people to know about risk reduction or to play 100% of the time with risk-reduction in mind.  
   
 The only actions any of us can be sure about are our own. You're not down with BBFS? Then don't fucking do it. There's no shifting of blame here.  Does coercion exist? Of course it does.  But an offer is nowhere near coercion.    
   
 ALSO CAN WE PLEASE STOP REFERRING TO TESTING STI-NEGATIVE AS BEING "CLEAN"?  I mean, really. it's not 1990; just because someone tests positive for an STI does not mean that person is "dirty".  Not to mention, you weren't feeling "bad" about your BBFS experience due to the risk of exposure you posed to the person who offered.  You felt bad because you felt she had put you at risk, and she even knew it.  You both put each other at risk.   You made the decision to engage in a risky activity and then made the provider feel bad about it? Malarky.    
   
 Be fucking grown-ups.  If you decide to engage in a high-risk activity, own your actions.  Don't pawn your poor decision-making off onto others, or try to re-frame the situation to make yourself look like an innocent.  We all have these things; they're called autonomy and volition. Use them to make an informed decision.  
 

-- Modified on 9/25/2014 10:18:08 AM

I'll believe what I want and base those beliefs on personal experiences; experiences I had years ago, long before providing was ever a consideration.

You had the opportunity to literally and figuratively get your dick wet. You decided that getting your dick wet was more important than mutually-assured safety. Only once your actual brain turned on did you consider the act you fully participated in. That's cool, whatever. But your "what an idiot I am" moment was only concerning your own health. That's valid. But the provider you were with had already considered the risks and made her decision and actually took responsibility for her decision. You projected your fears back onto her to the point that she had to console you and assure you that she was STI-free. She had to defend herself because your first thought, after the deed was done, was "I'm an idiot. I just fucked a hooker bareback and she could have given me things". I'm not even going to talk about "dirty hooker" stigma, because your reaction to YOUR OWN FREE, AUTONOMOUS DECISION illustrates that stigma perfectly.  

You shamed her for providing you with bbff that you did not have to participate in. Had you contracted an STI as a result, would you have held that "dirty hooker" responsible for your infection? You very well may have, but I don't know you enough to make that judgement.  

You are responsible for each and every decision you make concerning what you do or don't stick your dick into

Understood. Rant away then. I'm sure there are plenty of men who are as bad or worse than you think. I might be one of them. I hope not. But the jerks never think they are jerks now, do they? It does no one harm to be reminded of the damage that can be done.

Posted By: MissErinBlack
I'll believe what I want and base those beliefs on personal experiences; experiences I had years ago, long before providing was ever a consideration.  
   
 You had the opportunity to literally and figuratively get your dick wet. You decided that getting your dick wet was more important than mutually-assured safety. Only once your actual brain turned on did you consider the act you fully participated in. That's cool, whatever. But your "what an idiot I am" moment was only concerning your own health. That's valid. But the provider you were with had already considered the risks and made her decision and actually took responsibility for her decision. You projected your fears back onto her to the point that she had to console you and assure you that she was STI-free. She had to defend herself because your first thought, after the deed was done, was "I'm an idiot. I just fucked a hooker bareback and she could have given me things". I'm not even going to talk about "dirty hooker" stigma, because your reaction to YOUR OWN FREE, AUTONOMOUS DECISION illustrates that stigma perfectly.  
   
 You shamed her for providing you with bbff that you did not have to participate in. Had you contracted an STI as a result, would you have held that "dirty hooker" responsible for your infection? You very well may have, but I don't know you enough to make that judgement.  
   
 You are responsible for each and every decision you make concerning what you do or don't stick your dick into.  
   
 

The first thing I think is that for some reason, she is trying to get pregnant.

Wow! Didn't think of that myself, but after listening to one of the "older" provider's exit plan it makes sense. Her plan was to "find some old Geezer to marry" and she was serious!

The getting pregnant thing was always called the "Stripper Retirement Plan" in the past. Wonder if we will be changing the name someday?
 

Posted By: SuperBustyBlonde
The first thing I think is that for some reason, she is trying to get pregnant.

ROGM1716 reads

Posted By: DURHAMDREW63
 
 Wow! Didn't think of that myself, but after listening to one of the "older" provider's exit plan it makes sense. Her plan was to "find some old Geezer to marry" and she was serious!
 
After a Provider's "Working Days" are over, what else can she do to get Money? Her only choice is to get Married. Wonder how many 40 something and older Ladies on those Dating Websites are former Escorts.

I was with a provider once that ask me if I had a condom after I was in bed with her and she was sucking my cock.  I was hard and ready for a great fuck and she didn't have a condom, either did I.  I wasn't ready to get dressed and drive to the store come back and get back into this position again.   So, we went into the kitchen, got a zip loc baggie, put my cock into the baggie tied the base of my cock with a rubber band so that the baggie would stay on.  We then fucked our brains out.  However, it was good that she was wet and not real tight.    
Worked like a charm and everything was safe.  I was surprised how good this felt with the baggie, better then the condom.  I think the rubber band acted like a cock ring which also felt good.   Been a long time since the Jr. High days in the fifties when we used balloons with our girl friends from getting knocked up.

You might not have gotten her knocked up, but plastic bags have microscopic holes in them large enough for numerous STIs to penetrate. Not the best way to prevent the spread of STIs.

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