TER General Board

Need an opinion from providers and hobbyists pleasesad_smile
niceguysfinishlast 2988 reads
posted

I recently had a wonderful first time appointment with a provider.  During the session, she discovered that I was a pro photographer.  She asked if I would do a boudoir photo shoot for her as she needed new photos for her website.  I am the friend you know that often offers favors without thinking them through due to a naively generous nature.  I said yes, I would do it for free.  

Two weeks later she books a hotel room and I show up for a 2 hour on location shoot complete with my studio lighting and pro gear.  I normally charge $1,600 for an on location shoot including unlimited post production.  As such, since I did say it was for free, I went forward with my promise.  

The shoot was a strenuous one, lots of repositioning, room furniture adjustments, outfit changes, and tight angles due to the cramped quarters.  I was working up a sweat and at the same time, was very turned on as you can understand.  I was half expecting to fool around a bit after the shoot, but would let her take the lead on it since I offered this service for free.  Alas, blue balls it was.  At the end of the shoot, she indicated to me that she had not eaten all day and was dying to get some food.  I was politely ushered to the exit.  the blue balls build up was so intense that I actually ended up booking a last minute appt right after the shoot with a favorite provider locally.  

After the session, I spent time touching up a good number of excellent photos for her, with manual masking of face and other time consuming fixes.  She had initially made a mistake and selected the wrong set of photos for touch up.  I had to touch two sets of photos up in the end.  Total post production was two hours.  Now she is very happy, after just five days, she has a new set of professional boudoir shots at her marketing disposal.

As for me, I received a single thank you text consisting of some emoticons and a separate email consisting of a similar one liner thank you.

I like to think I live in a world of "give and take" whereby outside of a hobbyist / provider setting, if a favor of significant magnitude was offered and taken, even when offered for free, it is to my mind, a must to make the offerer of the favor feel truly appreciated.  How that appreciation is shown is up to the favor recipient.  

I am not sure what I was or am expecting in return, hence this post.  I want to see if hobbyists and providers out there think how I should feel about this encounter.  I am truly hoping that she (the subject) does not read this post as I mean no offense and have absolute discretion.  I am just curious to know from this forum whether I am justifiably feeling discontent about this situation.

Some might say that if I wanted something for something, I should have just suggested a trade.  At the same time, I know of very few people who would just accept a huge favor with zero voluntary reciprocation (outside of a texted "thanks").  It is just not how life works (or should work) in my opinion.

Alas, a small point, but during the two hour shoot, I was not even offered a water or a beverage.  And we were in a hotel suite.  Even a contractor or landscape laborer is often offered such a small nicety.  Suffice to say I just feel a bit used and abused.  It has now been a week since the shoot and since I have not heard from her, I am thinking that our transaction is complete and all sides satisfied at this point, at least from her view.

Thanks in advance to everyone who weighs in :)

You offered to shoot her and do all the post-production for free. If you wanted to do this in trade you should have asked. Would it have been nice if she had truly been appreciative in the manner in which you had hoped? Of course! But when you offer to.do something for free and without conditions you should expect nothing in return. Anything you DO get is bonus.

Sorry you're disappointed.

-- Modified on 8/30/2014 1:18:47 PM

For seeing it for exactly what it is.

You provide a service for which she should give a donation.

I don't see a difference

You have determined your time, skills and experience warrant $1600. She has determined her time, skills and experience warrant $???/hour.

Again, I see no difference.

I think you got played, and believe me I've been played numerous times in my life.

Even if she asked, he had every opportunity to ask for his going rate or a trade which he did not do and now is pissed because he thought she should have taken care of blue balls.  

Moral of the story, don't offer shit for free when you really want some sort of compensation. That's on the dumbass for not speaking up.

Here, I will copy and paste his exact words...I said yes, I would do it for free.

-- Modified on 8/30/2014 10:34:35 AM

Here, I'll copy and paste my exact words...I think you got played, and believe me I've been played numerous times in my life.

When he offered his services for free? She mentioned she needed a shoot and he offered FOR FREE. If you have been played then take a look at how you do shit and change it. If the Op keeps offering services for free and then cries about it, it is not the people who take him up on his offer but him that needs to change how he does stuff.

JackDunphy1457 reads

Even hearing this from the guys POV, I sided with the hooker. I'm gonna guess her version is a few cunt hairs different than his, if not a full 70's style porn bush different.

Real men don't get played out of $1600 in lost services and then have the balls to cry "and she didn't give me any water, too."

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaa....waaaaaaaaaaaa...somebody get this dude a pacifier. Watching grown men cry is revolting, especially when it's his own fault!

In you post you say "Some might say that if I wanted something for something, I should have just suggested a trade."

That pretty much sums it up... You entered a business relationship accepting a completely lopsided, uneven transaction. Not to be brutal, but that is too bad for you.

That being said, she was either stupid (no repeat business from you!) or 100% cold about it. So, yes, you are entitled to being disappointed.

Live and learn... Good that you went out and took care of the small head :-

else you both are uncertain of what you are getting -

keep it separate clean and simple....

89Springer1501 reads

I learned long ago as a photographer to not do "in kind" exchanges. One party always values his/her service higher than the other party perceives the worth.

If the OP wanted to do an exchange, he should have presented her with a bill, taken payment, then paid her for her services.  

One provider I've seen, when she found out I was a photographer, asked if I'd like to do photos for her site. I told her my rate, and that ended the discussion.  


-- Modified on 8/30/2014 11:30:25 AM

niceguysfinishlast1300 reads

OK, there are some strong opinions out there.  I see both points and appreciate the advice not to trade services.  Yes, in hindsight, I was disingenuous in offering a free favor.  Silly of me to expect something in return. The favor was really with strings attached only in my mind.  

To the person who says this sounds gay and why should I expect something when i offered it for free.  Adults know that there is always a balance with every relationship or friendship, a give and take, and I do feel strongly about it.  Should I feel taken advantage of after putting forth so much effort, even if I did offer it for free?  I think that is justified.  She could have shown appreciation in some even minor way, which would have made me feel less bad.  Was I stupid to offer it for free?  I think that is well established.  Lesson learned.

As for being wordy here, that comment has merit.  This is my exercise in venting.

niceguysfinishlast1166 reads

Come to think of it, to the person who said "free is free", I disagree, at least from my perspective.

If a provider offered a session for free hypothetically, with no obvious reason for doing so other than perhaps being nice and generous, I would still automatically offer some type of a donation simply to feel right about the transaction.  Otherwise, I would perhaps bring a gift of similar value to the normal donation.

This is similar to the custom of not showing up empty handed to a dinner party as a guest.  Yes, the dinner is free.  Yes, you are expected to bring a gift.  

How many hobbyists out there would act as I do?  And how many would really just accept a totally free session with a provider (and feel ok about it afterwards)

Holding others to your standard is an exercise in disappointment.

niceguysfinishlast1222 reads

You know what, I may have had manipulative and resentful intentions and I own up to them, stupid as they are, but I did deliver on a rather major favor and that was indeed "naive and generous" on my part.  

I don't think I need to be made to look like a major villain here.  Was I a chump in this situation?  Sure.  But I don't think I rate that high on the list for the type of venom you are spewing in my direction.  Either way, I did ask for opinions, but wasn't expecting this kind of criticism frankly.

Are pretty strong character flaws. Your choice of naive and generous is way off base, given that you were already manipulative from the get go and then resentful enough to come on here and take up a lot of space "venting" about it.  

In other words a manipulator got a dose and now he doesn't like like. So to some people who feel what you did was worse than what she did, I can understand the  the venom.  

If everybody was on your side would you have owned your manipulative and resentful intentions? Something tells me no. It's like the cheat that says he is sorry...not for what he did but because he got caught.

-- Modified on 8/30/2014 1:12:33 PM

niceguysfinishlast1264 reads

In this instance, my expectations for an act of appreciation was off base and out of line.  However, I am not a manipulator, nor some predator who is out there trying to cause harm.  I did not suggest this photo shoot so I could have a freebie.  I just offered the gift too quickly without thinking it through.  I get that the majority of the replies agree that I deserved what I got, and that it was ignoble of me to expect any compensation or appreciation for a gift. That point is well taken.

But in the end, I did a provider a hell of a service and while my thoughts and motivations were out-of-line, I did not act on them and delivered as promised.

Yes I would feel ok about it afterwards.  

Posted By: niceguysfinishlast
Come to think of it, to the person who said "free is free", I disagree, at least from my perspective.  
   
 If a provider offered a session for free hypothetically, with no obvious reason for doing so other than perhaps being nice and generous, I would still automatically offer some type of a donation simply to feel right about the transaction.  Otherwise, I would perhaps bring a gift of similar value to the normal donation.  
   
 This is similar to the custom of not showing up empty handed to a dinner party as a guest.  Yes, the dinner is free.  Yes, you are expected to bring a gift.  
   
 How many hobbyists out there would act as I do?  And how many would really just accept a totally free session with a provider (and feel ok about it afterwards)?  
   
 

You offered. She should have offered water but when I offer something for free, it is truly free. And yes I have done things worth a whole lot more. If you meant to barter than barter, but don't offer something for free then expect payment. And I never want or expected anything when I offer dinner ether.

GaGambler1622 reads

and when I go out on a "sex optional"  NSA OTC date with a provider, I don't pressure her to have sex with me, even if we have had sex a dozen times before.

I hate to say this, but you are the exact person that hookers bitch about when they bitch about guys who want "OTC" time.  A woman who invites you out for dinner, drinks, etc is doing that, inviting you out for some social time, NOT offering you a freebie. when she want to fuck you for free, don't worry, she will let you know. lol

And her not being a mind reader did not get it. Well, next time offer a trade and quit offering shit for free when you know out of the gate you want something in return. And then putting the blame or onus on the non mind reader who took you up on your offer.

Kudos for realizing this and owning it.

...obviously upsetting the OP as well.  No water, then she's says she's hungry which is like saying: "okay, I'm done with you, get your shit and get out."  Then hardly a word of thanks.

Sure, he offered his services for free, but courtesy is free too and she was very cheap in that area.

bonordonor1323 reads

she was getting uncomfortable with him hanging around wanting pussy but not asking for it!

That she was insensitive as a host.  

Keep in mind we are hearing one side, his side. How do we know he wasn't a tool and overtly suggestive and making her feel uncomfortable to the point all she wanted to do was get away from him?  

He portrayed this whole deal as he is the hard done by guy and then admits that he was intentionally manipulative. I wonder what he was like while doing the shoot.

niceguysfinishlast1430 reads

OK, you are only hearing my side, but I was as professional and courteous as can be.  And I did not overstay my welcome, about ten minutes after the shoot, I took my cue and packed up and left.  That is about enough time to catch my breath.

You seem to get hung up on the fact that I admitted to being "manipulative".  Manipulative would point to some degree of premeditation on my part, meaning that I purposely agreed to do a photo shoot for the outcome of gaining sexual favors. This was truly not the case because I had simply not thought that far ahead yet when I offered to do the shoot for free.  I will admit that I did expect some form of appreciation that amounted to more than a text message.  This could have been anything, a lunch invite, a thank you card, a credit for future session, or a free session.  Or even a more sincere and well thought out thank you text.  Did I hope it was to be free sex?  Yes.  I am a hobbyist after all.  But in the end, I got a texted thank you, and on a scale of human courtesy, that is pretty low.  Am I stupid and wrong to expect an act of appreciation?  Absolutely and I do admit to this flaw.  

But I seem to be condemned here solely for this expectation, having been labelled duplicitous and manipulative, and quite literally, a character of villainous intent. Forget the fact that I acted like a gentleman throughout this experience.  Forget the fact that I provided a great and valuable service for her.  Those are all just inconsequential details it would seem

GaGambler1280 reads

Yes, you started off looking for a bit of "tit for tat" and were disappointed when she didn't fall into your arms after your photo shoot, but you've owned up to it, and even I take no pleasure in continuing to pummel a guy who has already admitted his guilt.

What you did wasn't a lot unlike taking a woman on a fabulous vacation, assuming that she is going to sleep with you, but getting nothing but a peck on the cheek come bedtime. It happens, and you can either dwell on it, and resolve to stick strictly with P4P where the lines are well defined, or you can just go out and fuck some other gal and chalk this one up to experience. I mean after all, almost all of us have spent ridiculous amounts of money of a civvie chick, expecting to get laid at some point and ended up with blue balls. It's just one of those things that happen to men. I would say "get over it" but I am sure you've already received that message loud and clear.

This post summed up exactly how I feel and what had happened.  The perspective does make me feel a whole lot better.  In the civvie world, I often forget how pretty girls have for likely most of their lives had things and favors granted to them simply by men who have similar intentions as is did.  She probably took my favor the same way.  

Thanks for the post, I actually do feel better, ready to move on with lesson learned

bonordonor1488 reads

and you're used to getting cowgirl after the shoot. I also suspect you don't intentionally give away anything for free.

niceguysfinishlast1510 reads

To set the record straight, this is the first time I have done a shoot for a provider, free or otherwise.  I am not a serial photographer who offers services for free and expects nookie in return.  However, in this case, it did happen

Take offers from tricks who are photogs to do any shoot. I will get a completely independent photog and pay the going rate. I do not want any expectations of sex at the shoot.  

Some advice for what it is worth given that I have carved you up a tad...

If you ever want to do another hooker shoot, sit yourself down and work out a deal whereby the offer you might put forth is part sex, part payment (if that is what you are after).  

Be strict with wardrobe changes and photo editing so that does not get out of control. If there is a sexual component, at least discuss what your needs are and what she is prepared to do. Some guys who get exchanges want the fucking kitchen sink and this puts off ladies from doing an exchange. Make sure nothing is left to chance and that both parties are happy.  

Or you could just simply hire a hooker to suck and fuck and she can hire a photog to do her shoot and both walk away happy.

A question..would you have been happy with a hand release if she had offered that? You know so your balls would not explode on the way to your car...yes I am taking the piss out of you...lol.

I'm a professional photographer and know you got used. It's amazing how people feel that photography isn't worth anything. I get a lot of requests from 'friends' etc. asking if I could just take a photo of their family for a Christmas card, or whatever. I had a provider ask me to take some photos of her awhile back. I suggested a trade and she agreed. Next time either suggest a trade or other compensation.

Offering his photog services for nothing and placing zero dollar value. I agree, he should have charged something.

Let me preface this by saying I too have offered services for free.  I have helped where I can and have gotten varying levels of of response in return - from a thank you text to OTC time.   But I asked for nothing and expected nothing.   But like providers say about gifts - never expected but always appreciated.  

So I get where you are coming from to a point, but I do need to ask you this (no need to answer, just a pause to consider) - have you ever received OTC time?  If so, how much and how often?  Did you immediately pull out your wallet and offer to pay?  Did you offer more than the verbal equivalent of her text (or the text equivalent of her text)?    Maybe you did -- but maybe not.  Time to reflect and be the honest hobbiest to yourself

niceguysfinishlast1586 reads

You are right, a free service should have been just that.  And no, I have not experienced OTC so that does give me food for thought.  In that case, I would have just thanked her for the bonus and would not have thought of compensating further.

I think in this situation, it was inappropriate for me to expect an outcome and insincere for me to expect a repayment for a gift.  At the same time, taking sex out of the equation, even a proper thank you would have gone farther to make me feel a bit better about the whole thing.

I am being ridiculed for my insincerity in offering a strings attached gift, which I accept

I agree.  Both you and I would have gone farther (sans sex) to make someone who did what you did feel better, or at least quench your thirst.  But yourbest recourse is - and you don't need me to tell you this - is to pick among the 2000 other women available to you in the future.  And while we have all stepped in it here when posting something we're thinking 'it seemed like a good idea at the time'.  

And I don't think you did anything worthy of ridicule.  You made a miscalculation that many of us could easily have made on both sides of the equation.  You're clearly a smart guy who has now seen a perspective that didn't occur to you prior to posting (over and over... and over lol)... older and wiser but hey, we're all in this together.  

Posted By: niceguysfinishlast
You are right, a free service should have been just that.  And no, I have not experienced OTC so that does give me food for thought.  In that case, I would have just thanked her for the bonus and would not have thought of compensating further.  
   
 I think in this situation, it was inappropriate for me to expect an outcome and insincere for me to expect a repayment for a gift.  At the same time, taking sex out of the equation, even a proper thank you would have gone farther to make me feel a bit better about the whole thing.  
   
 I am being ridiculed for my insincerity in offering a strings attached gift, which I accept.    
   
 

Otherwise, it is not a gift, but an obligation that by rights ought to be repaid, and for which there should be an understanding tacit or otherwise.

I can't think of any gift that I've ever given that I regretted giving.

I can think of obligations I paid that were not repaid properly, however.

so if you want to get any regular business from that market segment I would advise not having any expectations,  not expecting to trade -

and -

I would not book with any of the providers you shoot unless you very politely ask -after the shoot is done - if that would make them uncomfortable -  

nor should you expect any consideration or discount...

niceguysfinishlast1561 reads

This is a good point.  Sex after the shoot was not what I first envisioned when I offered the free favor in the beginning.  I had not thought things through yet but had already said yes and the favor was accepted.

I did not in any way make an approach to the subject after the photo shoot.  But it was I guess a fantasy scenario in my mind, hotel suite, beautiful provider in lingerie, we are sitting on the couch after the shoot, it just seemed like a moment for....something.  

In hindsight, I guess it was a little ridiculous for me to think what could happen would happen.

At the same time, I was not expecting a "thanks babe :)" to the extent of her appreciation.  And that is on me as well.

JackDunphy1402 reads

H+T is dead on accurate here. Instead of negotiating it out and working out a deal that was a win/win, you instantly gave up all your hard work for free and now you are complaining about it after the fact.

I would have told her UPFRONT that my services would have been in the $1600 range but I would have been happy to set up some kind of barter for sexual services. I have actually done this on many occasions and it worked out fine b/c we acted like adults and we each held up to the terms of the deal.

You're the dude at the restaurant that orders white wine, they bring you red and you don't say a thing to the waiter but blast the place on Yelp. She may have taken advantage of your deal but it was you that opened the door then kept your mouth shut while she was doing it. Man up next time and stop your bitching. It's annoying when hookers do it but intolerable when guys do it.

And next time, go in the head, grab a glass and get your own fkin water. Christ dude, you can't even manage to do that simple task w/o blaming the girl.

Robert_BadenPowell1287 reads

... I think you were abused.  

You offered the photoshoot for free.  She didn't put a gun to your head.  You could have suggested some sort of compensation.  But you said "free."  Free means FREE, as in, there should be no expectation for any kind of compensation.

However, IMO this provider could have been more courteous and appreciative towards you.  No offer of even water during the shoot, while you were working up a sweat?  No appreciation save a text with emoticons and a one-liner email, for hours of your work?  How about offering to buy you lunch, since she was going to get some food anyway?  

The good news is, you now know a lot more about this person than you did.  So you can decide if you ever want to see her again.  I know what I would decide if it were me.

The other good news is, you now have some experience in this area, which you can use to market your (paid) services to other providers if you choose to do so.  And you even have a portfolio of work to show to prospective clients.

-- Modified on 8/30/2014 1:42:29 PM

It's kind of skeevy to offer something free and secretly expect sex.
As for water… What are you retarded? "hey lets take five so I can get some water because I'm sweating and thirsty". Was that not an option? Do you feed yourself or linger around restaurant kitchens waiting for someone to throw you scraps?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume you are an adult, evidence contrary, and tell you to man up. There's nothing wrong with feeling like you gave too much in hindsight but the key word is YOU.
 When she asked for a photo shoot I'm pretty sure she didn't say "can you do it free?" You offered.
I'm sure she wouldn't have minded tugging your tinkler for a high quality shoot, again, had you asked.

Ask for pussy if that's what you want.
Ask for water if your thirsty.
Ask for monetary compensation if that's what you want.
Ask for nothing, expect nothing.
You're comparing your photo shoot to dinner and her pussy to the unobligatory bottle of wine?

If I give a one hour client an extra hour and a half without him asking or any arrangement (I've done it), I don't expect anything. Period. Sure it's nice if he reaches into his pocket but if he doesn't I feel no resentment or regret. I worship at the alter of logic.

 
As for SG… wow. That's some harsh words for a gal you don't know who did nothing wrong, in defense of an alias. Ancient old wise man once said… Bitch please.
You guys might make a great couple.
You could blow him, he'll get the hot wash cloth.
Then he could take your pictures, You can blur your attitude
you could make him dinner, he'll do the dishes
He'll put his coat over a puddle for you, you can get it dry cleaned.
You can get stabbed by the angry provider you called a cunt, he can stitch up you wounds

niceguysfinishlast1953 reads

Thanks for weighing in on this, I do see your point and admit a bit embarrassingly that in hindsight, what I expected as an act of appreciation, can be considered very skeevy.  

I did offer the free shoot, right again.  And yes, I did not ask for a service in return.  At the end of the shoot, I did not feel it appropriate to initiate any approach because I did offer my service for free and I did not want to make her feel uncomfortable.  

Your water comment is a little harsh.  I will just leave it at that.  Water was just an example of how, while doing a admittedly large favor for someone, that that person is not treated with hospitality.  

This situation is entirely my doing and complaining about it after the fact does seem whiny, I will admit that.  

Your example of the free OTC makes sense and the point is taken.

In the end, I think I was mad at myself for offering a big favor without first thinking through how much effort would be involved.  Additionally, I was disappointed at the casual texted thank you.

We said it, it's obvious you get it. Lesson learned I hope and kudos for taking all the harshness like a champ. I give credit where it's due.

hidden1235 reads

Lesson learned. You expected something for being a nice guy and you were lucky you got a thank you. I am just surprised she didn't send her friends over for free photos. She knows how much that photo session should have cost, but she didn't care. Your mistake was thinking she actually cared. The only thing she cared about was "what else can I get from this guy?" Girls like that will take you for everything you have if you're foolish enough to let them.

I hope you didn't continue to see her

niceguysfinishlast1471 reads

Funny you should mention that!  She did ask if she could refer her friends to me for the same service.  I am sure she would not have expected the future services to be free as well though, I hope.

I will not see her again because I do feel that I acted foolishly.  I just was not expecting the nastiness of some of the forum replies.  I am still a little shocked.

Wow, the life's blood of any business.  That was really nice of her and does paint this in a whole other light.  

Service providers of all kinds, as you know, do a favor for someone who can be a future source of business for them.  This is a huge fact, and very much in her favor.  

I would not avoid her because you acted foolishly.  She sounds like she made the ultimate gesture of friendship (well, P4P friendship) for you and if it was me I would run to see her and pay her well.   Just me, but this was kind of an important thing to complete the circle for all of us here.

The girl is ok in my book

Robert_BadenPowell1398 reads

... and showing her appreciation for your generous act.  Unless of course she's assuming you'll give the same deal to her friends.  But of course you won't.  ;)  

If in fact you get business from her friends, you may have to change your handle!

Not 'this' world, I'm afraid. This place is so cutthroat it will eat you alive if there is anything 'nice' about you. They will sink their teeth in you and bring you down with them. No one gives a shit about any other person but themselves here, as long as they're getting 'theirs'. It can certainly change your perspective on the 'human nature' and thensome being here, that's for sure.  

Remember, 'nice' guys and (girls) always, I mean always, finish last. In any world. That's just life. You learn from it, grow a thick'er' skin and move on. I personally have to believe myself, there are 'good' people still out there. Somewhere. This world will jade the longer you stay. And it will change you forever I believe.  

I'm sorry this happened to you. No excuse in my opinion when one uses another. Next time I wouldn't 'assume'. That will get you in more trouble than one can think.  

Posted By: niceguysfinishlast
I like to think I live in a world of "give and take" whereby outside of a hobbyist / provider setting, if a favor of significant magnitude was offered and taken, even when offered for free, it is to my mind, a must to make the offerer of the favor feel truly appreciated.  How that appreciation is shown is up to the favor recipient.    
   
 I am not sure what I was or am expecting in return, hence this post.  I want to see if hobbyists and providers out there think how I should feel about this encounter.  I am truly hoping that she (the subject) does not read this post as I mean no offense and have absolute discretion.  I am just curious to know from this forum whether I am justifiably feeling discontent about this situation.  
   
 Some might say that if I wanted something for something, I should have just suggested a trade.  At the same time, I know of very few people who would just accept a huge favor with zero voluntary reciprocation (outside of a texted "thanks").  It is just not how life works (or should work) in my opinion.  
   
edited (sorry just noticed it was cut off at the top lol)

-- Modified on 8/30/2014 6:51:21 PM

... a truly good person will do what they do regardless of what the recipient (or user) does.  If someone can transcend things to that point of goodness, then being true to themselves will be enough.  Since none of us here met in church I am not sure there are too many people like that here or anywhere, but they do exist (and no, they don't all have the word 'saint' before their name)

Posted By: Taylor Steele
Not 'this' world, I'm afraid. This place is so cutthroat it will eat you alive if there is anything 'nice' about you. They will sink their teeth in you and bring you down with them. No one gives a shit about any other person but themselves here, as long as they're getting 'theirs'. It can certainly change your perspective on the 'human nature' and thensome being here, that's for sure.  
   
 Remember, 'nice' guys and (girls) always, I mean always, finish last. In any world. That's just life. You learn from it, grow a thick'er' skin and move on. I personally have to believe myself, there are 'good' people still out there. Somewhere. This world will jade the longer you stay. And it will change you forever I believe.  
   
 I'm sorry this happened to you. No excuse in my opinion when one uses another. Next time I wouldn't 'assume'. That will get you in more trouble than one can think.  
   
Posted By: niceguysfinishlast
I like to think I live in a world of "give and take" whereby outside of a hobbyist / provider setting, if a favor of significant magnitude was offered and taken, even when offered for free, it is to my mind, a must to make the offerer of the favor feel truly appreciated.  How that appreciation is shown is up to the favor recipient.    
     
  I am not sure what I was or am expecting in return, hence this post.  I want to see if hobbyists and providers out there think how I should feel about this encounter.  I am truly hoping that she (the subject) does not read this post as I mean no offense and have absolute discretion.  I am just curious to know from this forum whether I am justifiably feeling discontent about this situation.  
     
  Some might say that if I wanted something for something, I should have just suggested a trade.  At the same time, I know of very few people who would just accept a huge favor with zero voluntary reciprocation (outside of a texted "thanks").  It is just not how life works (or should work) in my opinion.  
   
-- Modified on 8/30/2014 4:40:24 PM



-- Modified on 8/30/2014 9:34:09 PM

JackDunphy1132 reads

"No one gives a shit about any other person but themselves here."

That's what you just agree with you dolt. That would mean herself and you, as two of the people that don't care about anyone else here. Roflmao

Maybe you will read the posts before you leap for your keyboard and agree with BSC hookers and their dumbass drivel.

timesrbetter1112 reads

I never trade for any ones else trade, I work for cash money so should everyone else.
  No hurt feelings that way. Always cash

Panthera12967 reads

She got what she wanted out of you and now she could care less about you.  

There are a lot of hobbyists who think that most of these providers are their "friends". Without an envelope or in your case a service, you are just another schmuck.  

I'll bet you have learned your lesson well.

since she was so hungry. That would have been the nice thing to do. I don't do trades but if someone goes out of their way for me like you did for her. they will be treated to something nice in return.

It sounds like besides the blue balls you felt like as soon as the shoot was over she rushed you out and could have been more hospitable during the shoot.

Steph xoxo

-- Modified on 8/30/2014 10:18:57 PM

zelig1401 reads

Since you offered to do the work for free, she doesn't actually owe you anything. But, you can also ask for a return favor. She may decline, but what do you have to lose? You might ask for a discount on future dates or maybe she could help you get more business from paying customers.

I've been in and out of the game for a long time.  I started off young as a nice and happy ho... then I went through a rough patch and my choices took me to the dark side of the business where everyone is predator AND prey.  I've lived it, so I know it's there.

I'm a lucky one who didn't get stuck in that situation long.   When I came back to the business later in life, I was back to what I consider my real self - a nice and happy (if not quite so young any more) ho.  :-)  And I haven't been predator OR prey since.  Just a fairly normal person sharing encounters with other fairly normal people.  

My point is that we are not caricatures.  We are just people, and very very few of people are all bad or all good.  Our lives and relationships to other people reflect who WE are - in this business like anywhere else.  Common sense is all I've needed to avoid being used.  

Sorry to get all serious, but the fear of  - and disdain for - humanity in this thread is kinda crazy.  Plus, I know when *I* get as vehement as those folks about something, it's mostly my own shit talking.  

-- Modified on 8/30/2014 10:58:54 PM

While she should maybe be more grateful you did tell her that it was free. I think this is one of those "you live and you learn" experiences. Next time offer your services in trade for time with her if that's what you want. You offer a service just like she does and there's nothing wrong with a little bartering. It's a win-win.  
 

Posted By: niceguysfinishlast
I recently had a wonderful first time appointment with a provider.  During the session, she discovered that I was a pro photographer.  She asked if I would do a boudoir photo shoot for her as she needed new photos for her website.  I am the friend you know that often offers favors without thinking them through due to a naively generous nature.  I said yes, I would do it for free.    
   
 Two weeks later she books a hotel room and I show up for a 2 hour on location shoot complete with my studio lighting and pro gear.  I normally charge $1,600 for an on location shoot including unlimited post production.  As such, since I did say it was for free, I went forward with my promise.    
   
 The shoot was a strenuous one, lots of repositioning, room furniture adjustments, outfit changes, and tight angles due to the cramped quarters.  I was working up a sweat and at the same time, was very turned on as you can understand.  I was half expecting to fool around a bit after the shoot, but would let her take the lead on it since I offered this service for free.  Alas, blue balls it was.  At the end of the shoot, she indicated to me that she had not eaten all day and was dying to get some food.  I was politely ushered to the exit.  the blue balls build up was so intense that I actually ended up booking a last minute appt right after the shoot with a favorite provider locally.    
   
 After the session, I spent time touching up a good number of excellent photos for her, with manual masking of face and other time consuming fixes.  She had initially made a mistake and selected the wrong set of photos for touch up.  I had to touch two sets of photos up in the end.  Total post production was two hours.  Now she is very happy, after just five days, she has a new set of professional boudoir shots at her marketing disposal.  
   
 As for me, I received a single thank you text consisting of some emoticons and a separate email consisting of a similar one liner thank you.  
   
 I like to think I live in a world of "give and take" whereby outside of a hobbyist / provider setting, if a favor of significant magnitude was offered and taken, even when offered for free, it is to my mind, a must to make the offerer of the favor feel truly appreciated.  How that appreciation is shown is up to the favor recipient.    
   
 I am not sure what I was or am expecting in return, hence this post.  I want to see if hobbyists and providers out there think how I should feel about this encounter.  I am truly hoping that she (the subject) does not read this post as I mean no offense and have absolute discretion.  I am just curious to know from this forum whether I am justifiably feeling discontent about this situation.  
   
 Some might say that if I wanted something for something, I should have just suggested a trade.  At the same time, I know of very few people who would just accept a huge favor with zero voluntary reciprocation (outside of a texted "thanks").  It is just not how life works (or should work) in my opinion.  
   
 Alas, a small point, but during the two hour shoot, I was not even offered a water or a beverage.  And we were in a hotel suite.  Even a contractor or landscape laborer is often offered such a small nicety.  Suffice to say I just feel a bit used and abused.  It has now been a week since the shoot and since I have not heard from her, I am thinking that our transaction is complete and all sides satisfied at this point, at least from her view.  
   
 Thanks in advance to everyone who weighs in :)  
   
   
   
   
   
   

I'm not a pro, but I do a lot of model shoots and get requests to shoot models...

My thought is for something like this, I want things pretty clear as to what would happen.  I always wanted a "photo shoot with a flourish" as it were, so what I did was I booked a provider who was photo/video friendly and told her what I was looking for was a sexy photo shoot fantasy.  After seeing some sample images I sent her, she agreed and even lowered the two hour fee unprompted because she knew the first half of the time would be pure photography.

I brought in lighting gear and cameras also, we had a good time then a great time.  We both got something we wanted out of the exchange, and the whole time we both knew exactly what would happen.

I think in your case there was was too much of a grey line.  You weren't charging but you were not paying either, you thought of it is a possible TFF (to twist the common TFP term a little), where she thought of it as a professional photo session you were doing for free.  All too easy for both sides to have misconceptions.

On the water thing, I've found over a while that only I can manage my hydration properly and so I bring water to any photo shoot anywhere.  To me photography has always felt more like a collaboration or even a staged event with myself in charge, so I wouldn't expect a model to provide me with water; if anything I'd bring extra so that she would have some

You offered to do it for free.   She accepted.  See, a message can be given in just a few words....

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