TER General Board

Seeking intimacy when all I know are escorts
WalterBlack 2477 reads
posted

Not sure why I'm posting this here. I figured maybe some folks in this community could relate and share advice.

For better or worse, I made a choice to see escorts at a young age. All my 'first' sexual experiences have only been with escorts or strippers. I've never really dated or had any relationship with someone who I didn't pay directly.

This has had two major effects on me:

1.    Whenever, I'm with a escort it can be great at times, but sometimes I get taken aback because I can't believe a single word coming out of their mouth. I can never tell if a girl is being truthful or not. And it's really messed with my ability to read people in a way. Makes trusting people hard. I understand this is part of the experience they are paid for.

2.    Whenever I see an attractive lady, in my head I can't help but put a dollar amount as to what she's worth (assuming I lived in a world where I could just offer money for sex and she would take it). Of course the world doesn't work that way. Some people do have a price, some people would be appalled at the suggestion. But at the end of the day, I know I shouldn't be judging women this way.

I tried to stop seeing escorts for over a year (but that only lasted for so long). I still went to some strip clubs every 3-4 months, but nothing more than that. I never really made any changes to try dating or anything of the sort. I don't know how to approach women or flirt with them which is how I ended up seeing escorts to begin with.

Every time after a session, I'm left wondering what am I doing with my life...I'm going to be alone for a long time. I wish sometimes I just had a lot of money in my pocket and maybe I wouldn't have to worry about this. That is, I could pay a bunch of escorts each and every time I wanted. But that would just keep the cycle going. I'd still continue to objectify women and would be left with so much self-doubt about myself. And there would be no intimacy or future there.

Just needed to get this off my chest.

There are plenty of websites out there which cater to variety of guys. Guys over 50, Black Guys, Jewish Singles etc.  Or you can find more generic ones like Match or E-Harmony. One of my friends found his girl friend on OKCupid.  It really doesn't take much to approach women on dating websites, does it? I mean you are behind the Internet. Worst thing she will say is NO..

But before doing any of that, you might want to work on your SELF IMAGE.. Head on to your local bookstore and get some self help books.

Seeing hookers is a terrible thing if you are longing for BF/GF type relationship...

Posted By: CurlyW - Nats Fan
But before doing any of that, you might want to work on your SELF IMAGE.. Head on to your local bookstore and get some self help books.
I went to the store and asked the clerk to help me locate those books and she said to me scornfully, "Find them yourself!

GaGambler906 reads

You need to give Wicked Brut lessons on how to deliver a punch line. lol

And I am running a little low on humor today..

Gotta run to the nearby gas station and fill it up....:D

GaGambler1314 reads

It sounds like you need to go out, get a "real" GF, have your heart broken, and learn how the "other side' lives.

You might find that a relationship built on something besides a financial transaction might be just what you have been missing all your life. or you might find out that you like your life exactly how it is all along. Either way, you really do owe it to yourself to find out if this it really bothering you.

Personally I find myself bouncing back and forth between the two worlds with a lot of lines being blurred and downright crossed all the time, but before anyone decides to offer me advice, let me clarify that I am completely happy with the way I choose to live my life and I have no intentions of asking anyone for their approval. lol

As for you, I am simply offering my two cents, which may or may not actually need adjusting for inflation. lol

in -non-P4P sex -  but the service levels are more variable :p

by all means give it a go but keep your eyes open -    don't automatically assume that the motivations of civvie women are clear and pure either...  especially if it is obvious that you've got a good standard of living.    

I am convinced that at the very least the ability to provide (financially) in style is a strong motivation in personal sex as well -  and really - why shouldn't it be?

An of course you won't confuse any of us with  the Love Doctor, because we're all here with you, but we've all earned a few scars along the way and here are the benefits of a few that I have:

1.  What you are feeling is normal, and there is nothing wrong with what you have done to date with stripper and P4P as sort of a bridge to where you want to go.  At least you have had some of your needs met... now for the ones that will not likely be met here...

2. Yes, dating is the other option, and I am guessing you know where to find ladies who might be looking for the same thing you are.  The one caution I would give you, and only because you ask, is don't hold them up to the standards you have found with the ladies of P4P.  These women are often uncommonly beautiful and admittedly often give us their very best, saving the regular life stuff for -- we'll they'll have to answer because we're usually gone for the real life versions of who they are

3. And most important I think is to find someone who is looking for the same thing you are, and who seems to have warm feelings for you.  Once again, I am no expert as I have been married for many years and  forgot a lot of what i probably never knew, but you don't seem like you are emotionally at the point where you are 'up for the chase' so to speak.  I am not sure any of us really ever are for that matter.    

4. Or maybe this is the most important thing I can say and it is something you should remind yourself when things don't work out the first, fifth or tenth time - there's a Jill for every Jack so if you are looking for that connection, don't get tempted by fools gold.  Start off by falling into like with someone and follow it as far as it can go -- it will be easiest on your electrical system

Depending on how old you are I'd suggest you seek professional counseling. I doubt than advice given here (including mine) will solve your problems but, good luck.

This is the best advice the OP has received here.  He clearly is troubled and never fully matured in terms of forming long-term relationships.  But the trouble is, most of us on this board haven't been great at it either. For example, I've been married twice and blown it twice.  At least, like some others here as well, I'm happy.
So I'd second cooper's advice and suggest the OP get some help, do some self-relfection and see what happens.  Change, however, is hard.
Good luck.

I also started seeing providers at a young age.  Almost all of my first experiences were p4p.  I tried dating, but I never had the moves, nor the looks.  The women I was interested in we're never interested in me.  I was friend zoned everywhere I went.  Making the leap to civvie relationships seemed impossible.  To this day I can't count the number of women I've been with (but figure 10-15 per year for over 26 years since I lost my cherry, with several as repeats or threepeats.  Out of all those women, only 4 were civvies.  One was a long term girlfriend, one was a one night stand and one was a neighbor, also a one timer.  The last is my wife.  It's tough to see how to make the leap in real life from girl you just met to Girl you date, bang and perhaps have a relationship with beyond sex.  P4p is easier.  Real life is hard.  In the end, while P4p will keep your libido happy, your heart yearns for something to hold onto.  At least it did for me.  The jury is still out if we'll live happily ever after with me playing around with providers behind her back, but hell, a guy does not live by steak alone.  Sometimes some garnish, or a nice dessert completes the meal.

First things first.  Quit going to strip clubs.  They are a waste of time and money.  You probably won't get laid and if you do, it will cost you more than calling a provider from TER for a less fun time too!

Second.  Realize this.  Civvie gals are not providers.  They can be takers, yes, so stay out of the "friend zone".  That doesn't mean you can't be friendly, but don't puppy dog them.  I've learned that a bit of interest followed by ignoring them for a day or two tends to intrigue them more than being up in their face all the time.  Don't seem needy.  It's the biggest turn off.  The most come ons I ever have had from girls were when I was in my faithful and committed stages of my relationships.  I think it was because I was confident and not trying that the girls actually tried for me rather than the other way around.  Hell, I had a waitress hit on me on my honeymoon while my girl hit the bathroom and the new waitress was coming on shift!  My words flowed friendly and aloof and she ended up asking me out when she got off work.  I declined quickly and introduced my wife who had had a bad meal the night before  and had been a long time in the ladies room.  But I digress.  Point is, be confident and quit prejudging women and you'll be fine.  Easier said than done, I know.  Practice makes perfect though.

even though i dont want a girlfriend and have no plans of settling down anytime soon i often find myself wanting companionship, especially after i finish
and i too never really had any serious relationship, i wonder how p4p will effect us youngster

that is gonna be hard as hell to break loose from. You might want to consider some kind of counseling because it sure doesn't sound like you can quit this lifestyle on your own.

Usedtobebetter1087 reads

in the level of intimacy if you see them regularly or exclusively.  I've been seeing one weekly exclusively for two hours paid, four to six hours actual for seven months.  It has been a wonderful if financially tasking, relationship.  We had a talk early on about keeping it real, but ...  She's a part timer sees only regulars and who wants to get out of the business but can't afford to right now.

It's just now that I'm understanding that I'm just a client to her (although a friend as well) and need to back off some before I get too emotionally attached.  We're starting to see that baggage (from both sides) now, so I'm going to cut down to one hour paid and see what difference that makes.  My guess is that her reaction won't be happy.  I've been in a sexless marriage for over 20 years, and although I've seen other P4P ladies, I think of her as my girlfriend, although I know that she's not.  I have to change that.

She and I both lost our RL jobs within a week of each other a couple months ago (unrelated) so there is a lot of financial and emotional stress associated with that and that may be causing some friction.

That said, she helped me through some extremely tough emotional and medical times a few months back that I'm not sure I would have handled well without her.  It's more than a provider/client relationship, but the line is fuzzy and the stress on both of us doesn't help.  The board consensus seems to be that LTR with a GFE is rarely successful as RL closes in.

What I'm saying is that P4P GFE ladies can be wonderful, especially if you're a regular; you can develop quite a relationship.  Just be careful to realize that the envelope is the lynchpin in the relationship.  Sometimes you want or need to believe something so much that you convince yourself that it is more than what it really is, so keep it real in your own head.

I'm transitioning to civvies for relationship, but will almost certainly continue P4P on the side.  Some of the P4P ladies are just too extraordinary to not have included your bucket list.

just as in any workplace, people meet who just click and the interest at least to a degree can become personal......

I've had one really positive experience with this -  and a handful of negatives -

there is a strong potential for an inverse relationship between performance and it's becoming personal  -    and the personal drama in relationships growing out of P4P can be amazingly difficult.....

anymore I just don't repeat because I don't want to go there again

Posted By: Usedtobebetter
in the level of intimacy if you see them regularly or exclusively.  I've been seeing one weekly exclusively for two hours paid, four to six hours actual for seven months.  It has been a wonderful if financially tasking, relationship.  We had a talk early on about keeping it real, but ...  She's a part timer sees only regulars and who wants to get out of the business but can't afford to right now.  
   
 It's just now that I'm understanding that I'm just a client to her (although a friend as well) and need to back off some before I get too emotionally attached.  We're starting to see that baggage (from both sides) now, so I'm going to cut down to one hour paid and see what difference that makes.  My guess is that her reaction won't be happy.  I've been in a sexless marriage for over 20 years, and although I've seen other P4P ladies, I think of her as my girlfriend, although I know that she's not.  I have to change that.  
   
 She and I both lost our RL jobs within a week of each other a couple months ago (unrelated) so there is a lot of financial and emotional stress associated with that and that may be causing some friction.  
   
 That said, she helped me through some extremely tough emotional and medical times a few months back that I'm not sure I would have handled well without her.  It's more than a provider/client relationship, but the line is fuzzy and the stress on both of us doesn't help.  The board consensus seems to be that LTR with a GFE is rarely successful as RL closes in.  
   
 What I'm saying is that P4P GFE ladies can be wonderful, especially if you're a regular; you can develop quite a relationship.  Just be careful to realize that the envelope is the lynchpin in the relationship.  Sometimes you want or need to believe something so much that you convince yourself that it is more than what it really is, so keep it real in your own head.  
   
 I'm transitioning to civvies for relationship, but will almost certainly continue P4P on the side.  Some of the P4P ladies are just too extraordinary to not have included your bucket list.

client_number_91012 reads

In fact, one of the quickest ways to run me off as a client is to start with the OTC stuff. A little here and there is fine, as long as it can be chalked up to loyal customer service practices. Anything beyond that and I run for the hills. The problem with extensive OTC is the inevitable development of unspoken/implicit expectations and it almost never ends well. Stay in your lane and play your position.

... stay here and you'll be reading about the health risks associated with pussy cottage cheese.   No matter how bad civie dating gets, it will have to go a long way to be worse than that.

-- Modified on 8/24/2014 7:53:54 PM

There is sex, and love, of course, but what keeps them going is friendship and compatibility. Courtesy, honesty, and respect cannot be underestimated in a relationship with someone you see everyday.  

You could start with your interests and try to make women friends, first. Without the object of dating. Just get to know women as friends who share your interests, platonically. Things should fall into place eventually. At least, women would seem more real to you.

You can substitute massage for sessions. I mean, real, legit massage. That way, you will get touched, which is important, but the confusing intimacy and sex part will not come into it. While you figure things out. I think it would be sad to see an escort and feel empty afterwards.  

I have heard that you know you are in a good relationship when you like how you are when you are with that person.  You know, when they bring out the best in you.  

Good luck!

RokkKrinn1012 reads

I have a legit masseuse who comes to my house once or twice a week as a regular thing now for several years.

There was a point where I was really falling for her.  Somehow or other, I managed to keep myself from going totally bananas over the situation.  She's simply too good as a a massage therapist for me to want to mess up a good thing by turning it into a "relationship"...

Also, with her visiting so often, you know how it goes:  You'll tell your bartender (or massage therapist) things you would never tell your spouse, or your doctor, even sometimes your shrink.

Once I revealed that I have "hobbies", that totally slammed the door on us being anything other than friends and legit masseuse/client.

But that's ok.  She's worth more to me a "life coach" and massage therapist.  Just always be careful.  Men are terrible when it comes to reading more into interactions with women than actually exists.

(Not that I'd know anything about that from personal experience....)  :)

GaGambler859 reads

but I've never had one worth a fuck that didn't at least start off that way.

Please keep in mind this is a "fuck" board, not Match.com

Also remember MANY of the guys here suffer from "perpetual friend" syndrome.

I almost alway feel "empty" after seeing a provider, or at least my "sack" feels that way,  as it should I might add.

I'm single too, and while I've learned a lot during my time in the hobby, I"ll probably be exiting soon, as I also desire intimacy. Best of luck to you, hope you find what makes you happy.

You are messed up relationship wise. What you should have learned in your late teens, early 20's, you did not. There is no short cut. You have to go back to square one, and learn how to date ladies.

Step one: Find a therapist. You will need to work through #2. Basically learning to see women as a person, and not as sex objects.

Step two: Select an ATF, and have her help you to learn to "date". How to treat a lady. How to converse with them.  

Step three: Internet is great. Sign up on dating sites, and start having dates. Don't try to date the most attractive ladies at first. Remember, you need experience, and you don't want to blow your one chance

89Springer1068 reads

Correct. You (the OP) need to learn how to interact intimately with women in ways that don't involve leaving an envelope. You need to have the experience of a real relationship, with its ups and downs, and strong emotions. Right now you sound emotionless. There's constantly posts on this forum from guys who are seeking that relationship experience from GFE providers, and it almost never happens.  

There's plenty of guys here who are just looking for sex with little or no emotional involvement, but that's because they're already in a marriage or other relationship, or they've been through it and don't want to go back. You need to go through it first before you can flee it, if for no other reason than to learn to view providers as something more than just cum buckets.

Jack_Inhoff850 reads

Posted By: 89Springer
Correct. You (the OP) need to learn how to interact intimately with women in ways that don't involve leaving an envelope. You need to have the experience of a real relationship, with its ups and downs, and strong emotions. Right now you sound emotionless. There's constantly posts on this forum from guys who are seeking that relationship experience from GFE providers, and it almost never happens.  
   
 There's plenty of guys here who are just looking for sex with little or no emotional involvement, but that's because they're already in a marriage or other relationship, or they've been through it and don't want to go back. You need to go through it first before you can flee it, if for no other reason than to learn to view providers as something more than just cum buckets.
 
Not to be disrespectful towards providers, but don't we get in trouble when we view them as more than a cumbucket?  Providers aren't supposed to be candidates for intimate relationships. Viewing them as more than cumbuckets can lead us to fall for providers and not get up.

All that being said, I'm NOT advocating treating providers disrespectfully, so don't misunderstand me

Well, I don't know about you, but I treat my mechanic like a buddy when he fixes my car or changes my oil.  I pay him exorbitant amounts of cash to do so.  We are polite to each other, make small talk, laugh and joke.  I've even gone so far as to tip him when he has done an awesome job.  Yet I don't expect to see him outside of his garage.  Nor do I expect to be best friends with him.  I have real friends for that.

My point is, providers are like mechanics in that they provide a service to you.  You can be friendly, respectful and polite and maybe get better service or you can be a dick and they can provide a less than stellar experience just like a mechanic can mess with your vehicle if you piss him off.

Now if you want to view your mechanic as more than a service provider, you better buy him dinner first, LMAO

89Springer947 reads

I'm using "cum bucket" as the lowest perception of a provider by a guy.  IOW, no consideration for her humanity or for her as a person.

It's when we view them as more than providers, i.e. real girlfriends, that we get into trouble

Yes, it's a little fake-ish on first meetings, but just like with all social interactions we're really just meeting each other's representatives at first. After a while you let your guard down and build a real rapport. Intimacy comes from shared experiences, so the more you share with someone, the deeper the intimacy. This can be achieved in a provider-client relationship. If the money bothers you, just consider that you are compensating her to go out of her way at attend to your needs and desires. You can also take the viewpoint that she needs the money and you're helping her out, in a quid pro quo kind of way. Good luck!

It strikes me that my relationships with escorts are more honest than those I had with civies, for reasons that are not too hard to fathom.

But I don't think that issue is the crux of what is truly bothering you.

The issue of not being able to relate to the opposite sex and form a lasting relationship leading perhaps to matrimony can have myriads of causes, and to diagnose and treat you through a thread like this would be irresponsible.

My suggestion is that you see a good councilor who has experience in the problems you have.  That's what I did, and it worked.

People who start off in P4P when they are young see both games in a different light than those who lived most of their lives in relationships and then took up the hobby when they either started going to seed or were put out to pasture in their latter years.

We both (all?) see the other game through somewhat clouded up sunglasses.

Crisis25883 reads

A few months in this world had a rather interesting effect on me. First girl I had sex with after,  I found myself calculating how much I'd spent. Then I learned that particular girl could be useful to me in other ways so I let her use me for sex so I could use her to help me with what she did for her day job.  

Another thing,  I tell my stories here to a few friends,  through a filter of course. Make up an origin, hit on the hot mom at a grocery store, turned an internet friend into a friend with benefits etc.  once the sex detail parts, well when you talk to girls they talk to their girlfriends. By framing a few stories for a friend of mine,  she handed me her best friend on a silver platter for me to go fuck.  

I'd say this place had dramatically improved my life.

Get professional help.  
Make female friends. Get a hobby where you can meet women.
Gotta try things if you to live life.

The more I learn about intimacy, the more I see it as a tool to bring people together  When you're intimate the love of your life, you'll share memories, be open, honest and care for another you'll have the best sex of your life that no one else can provide.  

The person you'll love the most might not look like a pornstar but you'll love her the most. If you guys need to spice up or get some lessons P4P can help at that.

and I think that men, whether they are away or not, do put a value on a female - how much she is worth to him. ..whether or not she is a provider.

I guess that is what makes a man want to marry a particular women, he values her above the rest

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