appeals to me greatly -
I am very happy in my own company and love nothing better than to have a large space all to myself, whether at one of my homes or flats, or while sailing, or other activities..... even when I have a girlfriend as is currently the case, in order for her to last long she needs to be aware of and respectful for my need for space and solitude. It is a delight being able to book some time with a provider, have some good sex and a bit of "getting to know you" whether it is "real" or not... and then knowing that I can return to solitude.... and have the sexual and semi-social outlet of booking again pretty much at will.....Something I often see in our GD debates is the suggestion that we gents pay for sex ‘no matter what’ in either civvie relationships or P4P relationships – it’s just that the form of the payment (and quantity) differ. While technically true, I think this view overlooks many other parts of the equation, esp with regard to the civvie relationship.
And please know I am not here to defend marriage or LTRs – this is the wrong place and I’m the wrong person - but simply to suggest that maybe “you pay either way” does not hold as much water as it sounds at first blush. Specifically, I’d suggest that in addition to sex (assuming a healthy marriage or LTR) a non-inclusive start to a list of additional potential benefits we pay for in either arrangement may include:
P4P with the right person - Benefits
1. They leave no matter what
2. No commitment
3. No drama
4. Light to moderate friendship
Civvie relationship with the right person - Benefits
1. They stay no matter what
2. They pick us up when we fall
3. Chance to share a lifetime of experiences with someone
4. Moderate to deep friendship in sickness and health
5. A chance to experience an enduring love though not always successful
6. Chance to have children together though not always in the cards
7. No worries about negotiating dinner and date companionship OTC
8. Someone who can make us a better or more complete person over the course of a lifetime, esp. by learning from their perspective when it differs from ours
9. They often make a financial contribution to our household/lifestyle too – sometimes even more than our own
Clearly I did not include a list of negatives for each type of relationship, and no doubt there are several for each to counterbalance some of the positives. The only point I am trying to make is that while yes, we pay either way to give our sexual partners something they are looking for in return for the pleasure we get sexually, there is more to each ‘bargain’ that we pay for than just sex.
And of course as always I reserve my right to be smarter tomorrow than I am today so feel free to disagree or add to either list (or subtract). Fire away
No matter what I spend it on, money makes it much easier for me to end up with what I'm after.
I don't necessarily mean that we always pay in a financial way. Some guys, maybe most actually do feel that way, but I do not.
What I do mean when I say we "always pay" is there is always a trade off. If I pay a hooker to fuck her today, I can fuck her best friend tomorrow without any issues or any drama. The same of course can not be said about a civvy chick, unless you happen to be swingers, but that's a conversation for a different thread.
I really like being in a "committed relationship" with someone who I feel can share my life, the problem is ME, I am a whore mongering pig and I have a very short attention span. I can fuck my GF three times in the morning, but then still find myself drooling over some hottie that same afternoon. I am able to control those urges for a short period of time when I am with a woman who really rocks my world, but eventually I get bored and have to move on. So when I say "baby it's not you, it's ME" I really am telling the truth. lol
It's funny, I do take commitment seriously and no offense to the married guys here, but I could never live my life married to one woman, but spending half my waking hours scheming on how to cheat on her without getting caught. I guess I am just not wired that way, which I why I am very happily divorced. I realize that my freedom comes at the expense of not having a "life partner" but until I quit lusting after every hottie that passes my way, this lifestyle seems to fit me perfectly.
....and in fact, you speak for me as well.
What I do mean when I say we "always pay" is there is always a trade off. If I pay a hooker to fuck her today, I can fuck her best friend tomorrow without any issues or any drama. The same of course can not be said about a civvy chick, unless you happen to be swingers, but that's a conversation for a different thread.
I really like being in a "committed relationship" with someone who I feel can share my life, the problem is ME, I am a whore mongering pig and I have a very short attention span. I can fuck my GF three times in the morning, but then still find myself drooling over some hottie that same afternoon. I am able to control those urges for a short period of time when I am with a woman who really rocks my world, but eventually I get bored and have to move on. So when I say "baby it's not you, it's ME" I really am telling the truth. lol
It's funny, I do take commitment seriously and no offense to the married guys here, but I could never live my life married to one woman, but spending half my waking hours scheming on how to cheat on her without getting caught. I guess I am just not wired that way, which I why I am very happily divorced. I realize that my freedom comes at the expense of not having a "life partner" but until I quit lusting after every hottie that passes my way, this lifestyle seems to fit me perfectly.
you met a woman who rocked your world who was your female counterpart? Like Frida Kahlo- her only demand of Diego was that he be loyal, because she knew he could not be faithful. Would an open relationship work with you? Or do you have double standard jealousy issues? I don't imagine that's the case with you, but ya never know.
What I do mean when I say we "always pay" is there is always a trade off. If I pay a hooker to fuck her today, I can fuck her best friend tomorrow without any issues or any drama. The same of course can not be said about a civvy chick, unless you happen to be swingers, but that's a conversation for a different thread.
I really like being in a "committed relationship" with someone who I feel can share my life, the problem is ME, I am a whore mongering pig and I have a very short attention span. I can fuck my GF three times in the morning, but then still find myself drooling over some hottie that same afternoon. I am able to control those urges for a short period of time when I am with a woman who really rocks my world, but eventually I get bored and have to move on. So when I say "baby it's not you, it's ME" I really am telling the truth. lol
It's funny, I do take commitment seriously and no offense to the married guys here, but I could never live my life married to one woman, but spending half my waking hours scheming on how to cheat on her without getting caught. I guess I am just not wired that way, which I why I am very happily divorced. I realize that my freedom comes at the expense of not having a "life partner" but until I quit lusting after every hottie that passes my way, this lifestyle seems to fit me perfectly.
I think I can handle "open" LMAO
You do bring up a good point though, but I haven't actually ever found that woman. If I ever do, I'll let you know how it works out for me.
The price, everything included probably reached seven figures. I don't know because if I totaled it all up I'd want to shoot myself. Or her.
Luckily for me, I'm still fine.
I sometimes wonder if this hobby is going to ruin me for re-marriage after retirement. But, I've figured out that I just need a polyamorous man that is ok with me being polyamorous as well. Hard to find, but they're out there.
Maybe that's what you need.
Thinking about the high points of your life-- "You've earned a seat at the table..." So since you earned it, you paid for it. You give something for everything. Still, you might notice, you--I'm pretty certain everyone on this board--have so far come out ahead.
I came into this world broke, naked, stupid, and alone. I'm way ahead. Yet, for everything I've taken from the world, I've given something back in return.
So, yes, we always pay, but where's the mystery in that?
And please know I am not here to defend marriage or LTRs – this is the wrong place and I’m the wrong person - but simply to suggest that maybe “you pay either way” does not hold as much water as it sounds at first blush. Specifically, I’d suggest that in addition to sex (assuming a healthy marriage or LTR) a non-inclusive start to a list of additional potential benefits we pay for in either arrangement may include:
P4P with the right person - Benefits
1. They leave no matter what
2. No commitment
3. No drama
4. Light to moderate friendship
Civvie relationship with the right person - Benefits
1. They stay no matter what
2. They pick us up when we fall
3. Chance to share a lifetime of experiences with someone
4. Moderate to deep friendship in sickness and health
5. A chance to experience an enduring love though not always successful
6. Chance to have children together though not always in the cards
7. No worries about negotiating dinner and date companionship OTC
8. Someone who can make us a better or more complete person over the course of a lifetime, esp. by learning from their perspective when it differs from ours
9. They often make a financial contribution to our household/lifestyle too – sometimes even more than our own
Clearly I did not include a list of negatives for each type of relationship, and no doubt there are several for each to counterbalance some of the positives. The only point I am trying to make is that while yes, we pay either way to give our sexual partners something they are looking for in return for the pleasure we get sexually, there is more to each ‘bargain’ that we pay for than just sex.
And of course as always I reserve my right to be smarter tomorrow than I am today so feel free to disagree or add to either list (or subtract). Fire away!
not so much that we pay - yes, we always do. Civvie relationships go well beyond compensation for sex; P4P not so much. I just don't think the two are equatable quite the same way.
1) The hours even days of sweet anticipation between booking and session.
2) Assuming P4P is the totality of one's sex life, the freedom of being alone. Whether this means reclusiveness or just the serenity of solitude, the time between sessions is totally one's own
... and you are right, these advantages never make their way into the conversation - but being free to live life on one's own terms through P4P is a huge advantage
appeals to me greatly -
I am very happy in my own company and love nothing better than to have a large space all to myself, whether at one of my homes or flats, or while sailing, or other activities.....
even when I have a girlfriend as is currently the case, in order for her to last long she needs to be aware of and respectful for my need for space and solitude.
It is a delight being able to book some time with a provider, have some good sex and a bit of "getting to know you" whether it is "real" or not... and then knowing that I can return to solitude....
and have the sexual and semi-social outlet of booking again pretty much at will.....
... I used to say "No promises, let's keep it simple"
But freedom only helps you say goodbye...
Freedom has its upsides, and downsides.
As for the sweet anticipation between booking and session... that is not unique to P4P. I've experienced "sweet anticipation" many times in a committed relationship. Not between a booking and a session, but between first suggestion of "getting busy" with my girlfriend/SO later that day, or sometimes later in the week when I was traveling or in a long-distance relationship. I found that anticipation no less sweet, perhaps even more so, than the anticipation between booking a provider and the session with her.
There are some additional advantages to P4P that were not mentioned, however (maybe in posts below, I haven't read all of them yet):
* Fills the needs of one party in a civvie relationship when the other party is unable or unwilling to provide the intimacy desired by his/her partner... and does so without the mess of an affair.
* Offers a much greater variety of sexual experiences than one may find in a committed relationship.
* (Related to previous point) The experiences from P4P could be used to spice up civvie relationships, either directly (e.g. threesomes with your partner and provider) or indirectly.
1) Absolutely
2) "Assuming P4P is the totality of one's sex life, the freedom of being alone", yes it is for me
"the serenity of solitude, the time between sessions is totally one's own", perfect. I go where I want, when I want, with whom I want for as long as I want. I guess I'm a selfish bastard, but I'm happy
most do not last more than a few years and most have a lot of psychic and often financial cost -
my one marriage cost me more per hour than P4P
I know very very very few people who have been in LTRs whether married or whatever that last, and in almost every case, the sex declines in frequency and quality as people become more enmeshed with the expectations of keeping house and planning a future....
if there is illness or children are produced, the negatives tend to mount up. I know a lot of relationships that have broken up over one partner becoming significantly ill or developing long term problems and in most cases when they stay together the well partner is getting some on the outside....
there certainly are some relationships that last and I applaud them - but your schema is arguing from the best and decidedly minority example....
Yes, all points well taken.
And while divorce rates climb above 50% with the average marriage lasting only two years, it at first seems hard to argue that it is not a minority example, but I will just add to the mid that many of those people who fail in their marriage or LTR then seek and/or enter into other long term relationships with other people, and often those do endure at a higher rate.
But no, I am not advocating for traditional relationships - I'm just saying that by suggesting we pay either way, there is - or in deference to your point, 'there can be' - more to the other side of the civvie equation than just sex. Whether it's a majority example or a minority example is open to debate, that is fair - but what is not open to debate is that it is definitely a minority example within the walls of TER!
and I think that there are several reasons for it
- this sport draws people who are not happy with their IRL relationships
- providers are often also drawn from the ranks of those not happy with IRL relationships (but
perhaps not as often as is the case with mongers....)
- there is a always a desire to reinforce or add value to our own decisions after the fact -
the psychodynamics of this sport never cease to entertain, amuse and inform....
-- Modified on 8/10/2014 12:43:30 PM
Personally I am still old school, I "like" to pick up checks, and most of my friends are the same way. When we fight over a check, it's because each one of us wants to pick up the check, not the other way around.
Personally, I hate cheap people, and as long as I don't feel like I am being "played" I enjoy being generous.
Totally agree. Even if it's just out with the guys, paying is actually something that gives me pleasure too. Hard to imagine guys who have the dough and don't pay for the woman they're with - not a very good short or long term strategy.
but there is a huge difference between broke and just plain fucking cheap.
...whatever. I pay. As far as I'm concerned that's the way it's done. I have had women friends say "my treat" or some such so of course they paid but if I asked them I pay.
my previous SO wound up with more per hour for our marriage then any provider I've ever seen has gotten.... we're talking eight figures....
she had a Ferrari to drive
she had nice homes and flats to live in
she had virtually unlimited spending privileges
no offense but she had a life that every provider I have met could only dream of.....
and she left the relationship (my call actually) with more cash than she could ever have earned in a lifetime by orders of magnitude.... the quality of service was not justifying the investment and was in fact in decline.... along with the lack of novelty....
now my girlfriend gets the goodies - still an impressive array of goodies but much more restrictive then previously - the hand, once bitten, tends to hold some things in reserve.... and her term will be significantly shorter than my previous SO....
that must have been some good pussy.
Fuck marriage!
I've taken plenty of hookers out to dinner and was happy to pay for their meal. They just know I'm not going to also pay to watch them eat it. So if you want a good meal and some nice company, and don't have a more lucrative way to spend your time, I'm your guy, assuming we've got some chemistry.
I've even had a couple of occasions where the girl insisted on paying for our meals. A gentleman needs to know when to simply be graceful and say, "yes." Especially if he's just been very generous in other ways. It's complex in this areas and you need to trust your instincts.
She said 'outside" of p4p. But I still disagree with her. The guys in my crowd never ever shirk responsibility for the check. I think she needs to run in a different circle.
I've even had a couple of occasions where the girl insisted on paying for our meals. A gentleman needs to know when to simply be graceful and say, "yes." Especially if he's just been very generous in other ways. It's complex in this areas and you need to trust your instincts.
misguided in their pursuit of domestic arrangements. I think the assumption that the person you marry or commit to will always be the only person you will (or should) ever desire is simplistic and illogical at best, and smothering and repressive at worst. If we quit chasing that fairy tale and see a domestic arrangement as two people who adore each other on a much deeper level, understanding that each may pursue sexual gratification elsewhere as and when needed, we'd all be much happier. It will take a long time to get there, as there is so much religious BS in our society to get through, but I think it's inevitable.
but rather cultural conditions have demanded it -
women who had offspring wanted to know that someone was assisting in providing for them - a sense of "ownership" here was valuable to this end....
in ancient times a man wanted to know who his offspring were and to control female sexuality so that he was not passing his property / title etc to a bastard that was not his....
the monotheistic religions tried to establish monogamy for a combination of cultural and political reasons -
but ultimately both men and women unconditioned by cultural interference are rarely interested in monogamy....
in this case I have a couple of points that may just be in conflict with what you suggest.
First, you mention in a different post that there may be a jealousy factor in the scenario you present to one of the other posters. I'd suggest jealousy is not a religious predisposition, but a human one. Is it an unnatural response that has been ingrained in us and that can be overcome with conditioning? I'm not smart enough to know - but I do believe both genders often feel jealousy over intimate relations, and given your scenario - and even in the hobby there seems to be some jealousy from what I have seen and heard - and I am not sure how we get past that.
Second, and strange as this is I met a provider not long ago where after our second date she suggested then, and a few more times too, that we 'just go exclusive' and that I take care of her and she'll take care of me.
I know in part this would have been a business decision on her part, but it would have created a monogamous relationship sexually for both of us - proving the world is round after all! PS I would have done it too, but while I do ok financially, with a family to continue to support as well, that was a bit out of my pay grade.
So... I don't disagree with your premise at all, but I do think that it may be as unrealistic as the more traditional one you aptly critique. But that did get me thinking - I wonder if the world's oldest (and best) profession is such because at least in part it has bridged a major relationship gap for both genders from the time we learned to walk upright. I wonder if above all, the real goal of humans is to have our cake and eat it too, and at least for those of us who have some ingrained need/desire for a so called exclusive relationship, maybe there's more to this don't ask/don't tell thing after all
Jealousy is definitely an emotion that is taught in the realm of human relationships. Not taught in the traditional sense- it's more like a learned reaction. Like many emotions, we learn to express them from watching those around us- parents, siblings, TV, peers, etc. So in growing up we act certain ways in situations how we've seen others act. Rarely are these learned emotional reactions questioned. That's why you have things like a strong sense of machismo in some cultures and families. I posit that jealousy is one of those things. Eventually some of us stop reacting reflexively and instead become more reflective, and question whether what we think we feel is really what we feel- and if it's conducive to the way we want to deal with something.
As a young girl I got a taste of jealousy when I was about 19, and I didn't like it at all. I decided that I wouldn't be jealous anymore because it wasn't serving a purpose for me. It didn't take too long- maybe a year- and I was done with it. It was one of the most powerful things I've done, giving me great personal power in my relationships. It's allowed me to see the world in a whole different way. I think anyone who wishes to do so can eliminate jealousy within themselves too.
I think religion exploits our baser emotional instincts for its own purposes. So while religion didn't invent jealousy, religion is certainly benefitted by it.
On your second point: say you had the cash and were able to go exclusive with the young lady you mentioned. How long do you honestly think that monogamous relationship would last? Even if financially you could do it forever, I doubt you'd be happy with just that one sex partner forever.
Point is, I think most humans are not naturally monogamous. There are a few among us who are- but they are the exception rather than the rule. I also differentiate between emotional monogamy and sexual monogamy. I think it's perfectly plausible that two people can be smitten with each other forever emotionally as life partners. But sexually I think that's highly unlikely. In our culture, we've woven the two together for so long for reasons Markus mentioned above that it will be extremely difficult to disengage them. But it can be done and I think it ought to be done. People will be much happier and the world will be a more peaceful place.
First, you mention in a different post that there may be a jealousy factor in the scenario you present to one of the other posters. I'd suggest jealousy is not a religious predisposition, but a human one. Is it an unnatural response that has been ingrained in us and that can be overcome with conditioning? I'm not smart enough to know - but I do believe both genders often feel jealousy over intimate relations, and given your scenario - and even in the hobby there seems to be some jealousy from what I have seen and heard - and I am not sure how we get past that.
Second, and strange as this is I met a provider not long ago where after our second date she suggested then, and a few more times too, that we 'just go exclusive' and that I take care of her and she'll take care of me.
I know in part this would have been a business decision on her part, but it would have created a monogamous relationship sexually for both of us - proving the world is round after all! PS I would have done it too, but while I do ok financially, with a family to continue to support as well, that was a bit out of my pay grade.
So... I don't disagree with your premise at all, but I do think that it may be as unrealistic as the more traditional one you aptly critique. But that did get me thinking - I wonder if the world's oldest (and best) profession is such because at least in part it has bridged a major relationship gap for both genders from the time we learned to walk upright. I wonder if above all, the real goal of humans is to have our cake and eat it too, and at least for those of us who have some ingrained need/desire for a so called exclusive relationship, maybe there's more to this don't ask/don't tell thing after all
Emotional monogamy vs sexual monogamy. Many of us who have crossed that bridge have discovered to our joy and fulfillment that it is possible to separate the two. However, societal norms and religious "values" are very powerful constraints. Consenting adults should be able to find fulfillment and enriched lives without guilt, fear or jealousy.
I'm not so sure of its inevitability but I do hope that with time there is greater openness and acceptance.
and clearly you have been able to rise above what most of us feel from time to time and banish jealously from your life.
I think that as usual I may have misspoken and should have said possessiveness instead of jealousy. We can be jealous over things we do not have but possessive over things we do. And with this in mind I would take the position that we are naturally possessive as kids do not like to share and I think we only overcome this with teaching them that it is good to do so.
So maybe this comes to the same point, but from a different direction - namely that we can share our partners, but I would suggest this is something we need to be taught; that sharing does not come to us naturally but with proper guidance from an early age people can be taught not to be possessive of their sexual partners. My guess is that if all parents taught this to their kids (without child protective being called) that over time there would be no stigma and little desire to possess only one partner.
There, maybe we're agreeing after all!
and the way our society is wired, marriage looks like a suicide. That said, there are a lot of benefits of having a life partner or spouse that you love and respect and who reciprocates that. These benefits are beyond sex; fall more in the realm of spiritualism. A life partner should be a platform for growth and development in your own path in life. When that is not the case divorce is a must.
I am married and adore her and she is that platform to me. I am not going to go deep into it but it is not my fault not hers that dopamine doesn't flow the way it used to. That doesn't mean I have lost the respect and love I feel for her. Being aware of this helps control resentment. We are aware of it and have started the conversation about opening up. In the meantime the very occasional hobby keeps me sane and comfortable in my relationship. I have to admit it would be a challenge if opening up does not work and there was no hobby. Proof of how powerful sex drive is; that you can risk your own life path to satisfy it.
We as human are quite irrational.
-- Modified on 8/10/2014 8:54:50 AM
I will figure out how to get from my wife the intimacy I'm trying to temporarily get out of the hobby. I really don't care what it costs. I just don't seem to know how, or maybe I'm too scared to try
than a P4P relationship. And if you have a goal to have children and raise a family, then it's a cinch that such a relationship is for you.
But the civie relationships also have those great and expensive downsides that we all know too well.
The best solution is to have both, but as there are no simple things in life, the balance of those relationships requires a lot of knowledge and skill, which is where TER comes in.
Excellent post, by the way...
IMHO:
P4P: you get to choose who you are and have zero obligation to adjust to the other person (unless you are a total f..g jerk)
CIVVIE: You constantly (or at least periodically) adjust yourself to match/please the person you are with, as you go through life together
and the main reason why the married hobbyists are here: we are either unable or unwilling to adjust further (and I'll leave at that).
Thank you!
It's just that there are so many smart and thoughtful people on this board - I guess it makes sense as we really can't live in the P4P arena without some of the financial success that generally comes from exercising our brains every now and then. - that between the spirited post yesterday and this topic added to the fire today, it's nice on occasion to have available to us an alternative to commenting on the likelihood of shitting while getting a blow job - not that there's anything wrong with that, of course.
And yes, I think the idea of the freedom of the hobby is clearly bubbling to the top where it should be. The adjustments that have to be made in a RL relationship can wear one down for sure if there is not enough else in it to hold things together - hence, the married hobbyist, definitely.
Interesting thought- there are many of us who are married here; I wonder if there are as many in long term or committed relationships without the formalities of marriage. If not, I suppose that fuels the notion that marriage equates to suicide as was mentioned above.
IMHO:
P4P: you get to choose who you are and have zero obligation to adjust to the other person (unless you are a total f..g jerk)
CIVVIE: You constantly (or at least periodically) adjust yourself to match/please the person you are with, as you go through life together
and the main reason why the married hobbyists are here: we are either unable or unwilling to adjust further (and I'll leave at that).
For free, of course! Am I that transparent?
that (fuck-n-get-blown) is anatomically impossible for us males!
I have to find a way to meet you in person one of these days...
I like having my cock sucked by a professional
Those who won't P4P for various reasons, and this is their desire:
- Stylish with hair, skin, body, and nails (without really realizing how much hair, skin, and nails cost, as well as stylish clothes, shoes, and make up)
- A financially responsible woman who doesn't spend too much getting hair, skin, nails, clothing, shoes, and make up.
- Independent
- Socially acceptable in all situations by definition of occupation, finances, and assets
- NO drama (this includes saying how you feel after listening to him say how he feels when she does or says similar things)
- A woman to look like she took hours to get ready, but to be ready right Now
- For her to chill (remember, no drama,) when he says a crude joke about her profession, actions, personality traits, etc. but she says an 'inappropriate joke' to him.
- For her not to question him when he disappears for weeks at a time, but when he comes back and she questions him, she's causing drama.
- Wants her full attention whenever he is with her, wants her never to flirt or even talk about another guy, but he can flirt with women right in front of her. She says, 'oh good. I can flirt with other guys then' and when she does he disappears for another few weeks.
Some guys definitely want this for free lol.
-- Modified on 8/10/2014 12:52:02 PM
Just wash your ass and be punctual. lol
- Stylish with hair, skin, body, and nails (without really realizing how much hair, skin, and nails cost, as well as stylish clothes, shoes, and make up)
- Independent
- Socially acceptable in all situations by definition of occupation, finances, and assets
- NO drama (this includes saying how you feel after listening to him say how he feels when she does or says similar things)
- A woman to look like she took hours to get ready, but to be ready right Now
- For her to chill (remember, no drama,) when he says a crude joke about her profession, actions, personality traits, etc. but she says an 'inappropriate joke' to him.
- For her not to question him when he disappears for weeks at a time, but when he comes back and she questions him, she's causing drama.
- Wants her full attention whenever he is with her, wants her never to flirt or even talk about another guy, but he can flirt with women right in front of her. She says, 'oh good. I can flirt with other guys then' and when she does he disappears for another few weeks.
Some guys definitely want this for free lol.
-- Modified on 8/10/2014 12:44:38 PM
Haha, I guess I forgot 'waxing' in my list lol. Because God forbid she has razor burn.
in exchange for a lifestyle the which she would have little opportunity to create for herself..... oh - in addition I require a great deal of entertainment :p
- Stylish with hair, skin, body, and nails (without really realizing how much hair, skin, and nails cost, as well as stylish clothes, shoes, and make up)
- A financially responsible woman who doesn't spend too much getting hair, skin, nails, clothing, shoes, and make up.
- Independent
- Socially acceptable in all situations by definition of occupation, finances, and assets
- NO drama (this includes saying how you feel after listening to him say how he feels when she does or says similar things)
- A woman to look like she took hours to get ready, but to be ready right Now
- For her to chill (remember, no drama,) when he says a crude joke about her profession, actions, personality traits, etc. but she says an 'inappropriate joke' to him.
- For her not to question him when he disappears for weeks at a time, but when he comes back and she questions him, she's causing drama.
- Wants her full attention whenever he is with her, wants her never to flirt or even talk about another guy, but he can flirt with women right in front of her. She says, 'oh good. I can flirt with other guys then' and when she does he disappears for another few weeks.
Some guys definitely want this for free lol.
-- Modified on 8/10/2014 12:52:02 PM
And that is that as important as mutual pleasure is to a happy session, there are times when I just want to do what I want with a woman, get what I want, have her do what I want, and not really care whether or not she gets off. Before going on, that doesn't entail slapping her around or anything of that nature, so don't flare up about what can be read into this by a sick mind.
But, with P4P, crude is totally permissible. And "real" life sometimes leaves a person at a point where they feel the need to find another human being and selfishly take pleasure from intimacy.
In a civvie relationship, if you say "give me a blow job", you may hear "fuck me first" or "fuck you, we're going to the art fair".
In P4P, say "give me a blow job" and--shazam!--you're getting one. No need to fuck her if you don't want, and no art fairs.
It seems a lot of the threads on this board talk about pleasing the woman. Orgasm is, of course, prime. The idea of going to an incall with no concern for the woman's enjoyment just isn't spoken of much. That's the taboo. Most of the time I don't feel that way, but when I do, it gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling knowing that in this arena of life selfishness is totally acceptable.
In P4P, say "give me a blow job" and--shazam!--you're getting one. No need to fuck her if you don't want, and no art fairs.
... and that it is not disrespectful. Or, doesn't have to be... In my mind, escorts sell sexual experiences and not themselves... But then, I appear to be one of the few who don't want girlfriend type intimacy from this..
is one of my favorite things - but I expect *her* to know how to fend for herself and to selfishly take some pleasure from me as well..... I like it a bit competitive :p
That's a different dynamic. All I'm talking about are those times when I really don't care what she does or what she doesn't get out of itvbesides the envelope. Like how I might've felt after a good friend died, or, conversely,after something very bad finally happened to someone I really didn't like very much. Maybe you had feelings like that on the Ho Chi Minh Trail. Sometimes I still do.
-- Modified on 8/10/2014 3:15:12 PM
How about having to listen to the bullshit jealous remarks like "oh my god, I can't believe so and so at my work wore that to work, she's such a slut", because this woman is getting looks and attention from the men in her office. First, she shouldn't be concerned that another woman is getting looks, she's in a committed relationship, she should be concerned about how she looks for her partner. Second, jealousy is without a doubt the ugliest emotion, it's born from insecurity which is ugly as well. I'm not an attractive man (that's not insecurity, it's honesty) but I don't get all bent out of shape if a good looking guy is getting female attention or if he takes off his shirt to show the ladies what he's got. Hell man, if you got it you should flaunt it. I not only don't mind, but I expect my partner to look at other men, especially if he's good looking. And third, if she is a slut, then I want to fuck her, I love sluts, it's a term of endearment as far as I'm concerned.
And how about when you commit to a women, they all of a sudden think they're the boss of the relationship. I told my ex once early in our marriage that I was going golfing that weekend and she started a fight which evolved eventually into her saying "OK you can go golfing", to which I promptly replied "OH I know I can go golfing, let's eliminate any confusion right here right now, I wasn't asking you, I was telling you". As I informed her "I had a Mother, and until I reached the age of 18 I had to ask her permission to do things, when we started this relationship I was looking for a partner, not another Mother".
Also, prior to getting married the sex was plentiful, and then shortly after marriage it was rationed, and it was used as a tool to get her way or get something done. That's Bullshit!
And not to mention the monthly unwarranted bitchiness. I'm not insensitive, I get it, the hormones are raging. And if you are in a committed relationship you have to deal with it.
These are just a few scenarios of having to pay (non monetarily) and these examples aren't just my experiences, but also echoed from numerous friends I've spoken with on this subject.
Your benefits list of LTR's is story book, fairy tale. Do I think that most partners feel this is the way it'll be when the enter into the union? Yes, but then they take each other for granted and it all falls apart.
After my divorce, I found TER and started my hobby. Prior to TER and my marriage, I didn't participate in the hobby because:
1. I won't see a SW, because I won't knowingly contribute to trafficking or drug addiction, and of course LE
2. I had no idea how to find providers who are doing this of their own free will
3. TER allowed me to research if she's the right kind of woman for me, if she's a woman I'm attracted to and if she participates in activities that I enjoy, so that I'm not wasting my time, energy and money on women who I am not interested in
So now, in one session I can see a red head, in another a blond, in another a brunette. I can see white girls, latin girls, black girls, asian girls. And these women are good at what they do (if I've done diligent research). And now for the best part, I don't have to deal with drama, after she's rocked my world we politely say our goodbyes.
So I've always paid for it, except now I know how much it will cost monetarily and that I won't have to pay with the other bullshit. Money I've got, looks and youth to attract a good looking woman, patience to deal with the drama and willingness to play the stupid dating game, not so much.
So sorry for the book, I guess I had a lot to say on the subject.
is vastly underrated in the equation :p
Lol! But seriously- you make some good points. Goes both ways, though.
I think a wise barometer for entering into a relationship with someone would be security levels. I don't do insecure men. I barely can handle insecure girlfriends.
In P4P, you give money. Sometimes guys (and women) give a little more of themselves.
In a long term relationship, you give as well. You give of yourself, including your time, your love, your attention, and just about every other aspect of yourself. If you're not giving that, things probably won't last.
The question then becomes which is more palatable for you. At this point in my life, and after recent emotional upheavals, I like the ability to have great sex but still be alone when I leave. I wish I could have it when I want, but finances don't allow for that, nor does geography. I can't be away for two days every time I'm horny.
YMMV!! Overworked term, yes, devoid of significance, no. Everyone commenting in this thread expressed an opinion, no one asked a question. What does that prove? That experiences like the hobby/marriage/sex etc can't be quantified, legislated, or pontificated about with generalizations, as though one size fits all. Bottom line: live and let live, don't legislate adult consensual behavior, teach ethics not dogma, and so on.
Either Girl is going to cost Money. It just depends on how much you want to pay and the amount of BS you're willing to put up with.