"And that's really what irks you so...You know they'll never be free of the dependence and the good will of the US, and it's killing you, ain't it?"
Not one bit. I don't know they will *never* be free of the need for the US support, but certainly not in the foreseeable future. Why should that bother me at all? There are entire nations and multiple terrorist organizations dedicating to wiping out Israel. Of course they can't survive 100% on their own. Maybe one day Islamic terrorism will end, and other Arab/Persian nations will allow Israel to live in peace. I doubt it. But until that day arrives, of course Israel will need support to be able to survive. Is this supposed to be some sort of revelation on your part?
Meanwhile US gives way more foreign aid around the rest of the world; the % strictly going to Israel is quite small. Other nations hope to benefit from aid they receive (sometimes they do, most often it appears to be wasted) but would not be wiped out of existence otherwise. There are exceptions. The US has said soldiers stationed in South Korea for 70 years -- without that, its very likely SK would not exist. So please start ranting about how SK is dependent on the US for its existence as well. Egypt gets far more aid as a percent of its GNI than does Israel, and yet no other nation is devoted to wiping it off the map.
For fuck sake, even the so-called advanced nations get help/aid from each other in stopping terrorist and other attacks. Ever hear of interpol? What's the problem with relying on assistance? No single nation could run interpol on its own.
Everything else has failed for you, so now to turn to this red herring? You can't even hide your desperation any longer.
As for your attempt to bait me about a Liberated Palestine, better luck next time. Palestine was liberated, back in 1948. The name then got changed to Israel. There's an anniversary coming up. You might have heard about it.
-- Modified on 5/1/2008 4:07:02 PM
A few daze ago the House of Representatives, adding to it's many signal accomplishments this term, bestirred itself and managed to devote its limited time, energy, and attention to House Resolution 322, which passed by an incredible margin of 417 - 0! It's a boilerplate "birthday greeting " to Israel, commenorating the 60th anniversary of the beginning of the dispossession of the Pallys and the US' [initially slow] but rapidly accelerating spiral downward to self-destruction. Long story short, Rep Dennis Kucinich, who actually was among the 417 affirmatives [inevitably, sigh] added the unwelcome words below to the proceedings.
No word as to how soon his political career is totally destroyed, but from past AIPAC performance, i'd expect much, much sooner rather than later.
Maybe Kucinich and Rev Wright could go on the road with one of those wacky 2-man shows, the way G Gordon liddy and Timothy Leary did some years back.
Mr. Speaker, today I join my colleagues in Congress in celebrating Israel's accomplishments over the past 60 years. I am happy to be co-sponsor of this congratulatory resolution. However, like many Israelis and Palestinians, I have concerns about Israel's future, its stability, its security and the prospect for peaceful coexistence for both Palestinians and Israelis. One of those concerns relates to the ongoing lack of resolution on the dispossession of Palestinian property and the dislocation of Palestinians after Independence. It must be remembered that about 700,000 Palestinians became exiled. Much Arab property was appropriated. And about 500 Arab villages were destroyed. On December 11, 1948, the United Nations passed Resolution 194, affording Palestinian refugees the right to return to their homes in Israel, or to compensation for their property should they choose not to return. To this day, the mandate of U.N. Resolution 194 has not been fulfilled. Unfortunately, this failure remains as one of the most significant barriers to the realization of a two-state negotiated solution.
I am also concerned for those Palestinians who did not flee and who became Israeli citizens after Independence. According to the Legal Center for Arab Minority Rights in Israel, today there exist 20 Israeli laws, which explicitly discriminate against the Palestinian minority in Israel, who constitute 20 percent of its population. In its 2005 Annual Report, the U.S. State Department said that ``[There is] institutionalized legal and societal discrimination against Israel's [Arab] Christian, Muslim and Druze citizens. The government does not provide Israeli Arabs with the same quality of education, housing, employment and social services as Jews.''
Finally, Israel has a right to security and a right to defend itself. Accordingly, I am concerned that the 40-year military occupation of the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem has been and continues to be brutal and unjust and undermines the security of Israel. It is a fact that the government of Israel continues to support the construction of settlements on Palestinian land, perpetuating the consequences of dispossession and exile. Additionally, I am concerned that the government of Israel has increased the number of checkpoints, which destroy a viable Palestinian economy and a vibrant civil society. I am concerned that the Israeli government has erected a wall, often on Palestinian land, that divides Palestinians from Palestinians, rather than divide Israel from the West Bank. As stated by Judge Elaraby of the International Court of Justice in his 2004 Advisory Opinion on the legality of Israel's separation barrier, ``The fact that occupation is met by armed resistance cannot be used as a pretext to disregard fundamental human rights in the occupied territory.'' This conundrum of a dialectic of conflict further separates Israelis and Palestinians alike from hopes for peace.
H. Con. Res. 322 eloquently states the many reasons why I celebrate Israel's accomplishments and I sincerely wish it a bright future. I only wish to add that, in my opinion, and in the opinion of many Israelis and Palestinians as well, Israel's future will be bright only if it includes an open dialogue with Palestinians, a respect for human rights and international law, and a society built on coexistence and tolerance. Israelis and Palestinians deserve to live in peace with justice and I encourage the United States government to help Israel achieve that so the joy of future anniversaries will be unalloyed.
I support the resolution in the spirit of reconciliation to which we must all inevitably turn, to achieve peace and justice with our brothers and sisters from whom we may be estranged.
Bush is all about enforcing UN Resolutions so maybe we can count on him to enforce this one.
Is this really the best you can do in your constant mindless Israel bashing? "Gee, let me find somebody, anybody, no matter how ridiculous, to say something negative about Israel, and I'll post it without any thought put into it."
Kucinich? As in the one of only two members (along with that other wacko Ron Paul) from the entire House to oppose passing a resolution urging the UN Security Council to charge Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad with violating the 1948 Genocide Convention and the UN Charter. This passed in the House of Rep by 411 - 2.
Kunicich isn't even respected by his own party. (Just take a peek at his committee assignments and his embarrassing showing in the primaries.) But none of that matters to you. As long as he says something negative regarding Israel, then for at least one day, he's relevant in your book. And you simply must share.
I have to wonder, really, what is the point to your broken-record posts? What is it you expect to actually accomplish?
pretty much what you expect to accomplish with your frequent replies to my broken-record post?
I can only wonder how much more indignant your response would have been if Kucinich's remarks had been made by someone further up the House food chain, hence, more respected [if not respectable] than DK, whose lowly status i'm fully aware of. Pelosi? would that have made a difference to you? Not that she's going to risk the Wrath of Dershowitx making such statements. Not that Kucinich's word will make a bit of difference.
go on along now; sign another petition for the release of JJP and maybe even make an inquiry into how you can assist in the defense of Ben-Ami Kadish. Better yet, hit the news sources. maybe ther's some Pally collateral damage that will cheer you up.
Hey, june 8, 2008 will be the 41st anniversary of what event?
The difference being, of course, that people higher-up the food chain, i.e. those who actually know something on which they speak, don't make the ignorant sound bites you like to quote so much. So much for your hypothetical.
And, of course, whenever they report on the Palestinian terrorists, or Iran/Hexbollah/Hamma/Islamic Jihad/etc/etc threats to "wipe Israel off the map", where are you then?
So you admit to knowing DK has no relevant status and is a fool. He's laughed at no matter what he says, but in this case, because its a negative toward Israel, time to conveniently forget his non-status and promote him as an expert for your sole purpose of piling on Israel.
But wait, there's more....
"maybe ther's some Pally collateral damage that will cheer you up."
Still trolling?
I don't cheer for Palestinian deaths unless they are terrorists, who by their *actions* deserve to die. We've already addressed this in an earlier exchange but of course you know that but want to pretend otherwise to score some points in some kind of scoreboard you apparently keep in your head. Meanwhile, in all your breathless Israel bashing, you've not once condemned a single Palestinian terrorist act.
I can only wonder about yur estimation of Kucinich's relevance if he were as effusive in his praise of Israel as you and they seeem to feel is you God-given due.
You obvious have a gap in your understanding of my position - if the Israelis are able to hold by brute force the land from which they've dispossessed the Pallys, and can do it W/O constantly running to the US for endless arms/$$$/UN vetos/diplomatic support/emotional stroking well, it's a sad day for the Pallys, but so be it. It's a rough world. But since Israel can't and they never will, well, there you go.
And that's really what irks you so -- all the propaganda about a world-class high-tech 21st century economy, all the propaganda about making the desert blom, all the propaganda about being A Light Unto The Nations, Israel in the end is just another ho-hum BS third-world country of no real real consequence, talking itself up about wholly fictitious accomplishments, emotinally cossetting itself in some putrid myths from 4000 years ago, preying upon it's victims, and becoming all the more indignant when any mention of it is made. Yeah, go ahead and keep your precious Israel. You know they'll never be free of the dependence and the good will of the US, and it's killing you, ain't it?
Next year in Liberated Palestine?
"And that's really what irks you so...You know they'll never be free of the dependence and the good will of the US, and it's killing you, ain't it?"
Not one bit. I don't know they will *never* be free of the need for the US support, but certainly not in the foreseeable future. Why should that bother me at all? There are entire nations and multiple terrorist organizations dedicating to wiping out Israel. Of course they can't survive 100% on their own. Maybe one day Islamic terrorism will end, and other Arab/Persian nations will allow Israel to live in peace. I doubt it. But until that day arrives, of course Israel will need support to be able to survive. Is this supposed to be some sort of revelation on your part?
Meanwhile US gives way more foreign aid around the rest of the world; the % strictly going to Israel is quite small. Other nations hope to benefit from aid they receive (sometimes they do, most often it appears to be wasted) but would not be wiped out of existence otherwise. There are exceptions. The US has said soldiers stationed in South Korea for 70 years -- without that, its very likely SK would not exist. So please start ranting about how SK is dependent on the US for its existence as well. Egypt gets far more aid as a percent of its GNI than does Israel, and yet no other nation is devoted to wiping it off the map.
For fuck sake, even the so-called advanced nations get help/aid from each other in stopping terrorist and other attacks. Ever hear of interpol? What's the problem with relying on assistance? No single nation could run interpol on its own.
Everything else has failed for you, so now to turn to this red herring? You can't even hide your desperation any longer.
As for your attempt to bait me about a Liberated Palestine, better luck next time. Palestine was liberated, back in 1948. The name then got changed to Israel. There's an anniversary coming up. You might have heard about it.
-- Modified on 5/1/2008 4:07:02 PM
stop the bullshit - you know as well as I do that Israel gets the largest percentage of bilateral US aid of any country on this miserable planet. and it's not just devoted to "stopping terrorist and other atacks" [a terrorism directed specifically at Israel which largely would not exist in the absence of Israel and it's dispossession of the Pallys, but you know that, or ought to know that, as well. The other terrorism, stemming from an existential hatred of modernity, is something else again, with some overlap]. Aid to Egypt, as I pointed out many a times, is simply the bribe the US has had to pay for the Egyptian-Israel Trety of 1979 [midwifed by that anti-Semitic teerorist supporter, Jimmy Carter, who hasn't done anything for them lately, so hence no liason between the US Secret Service and the Israelis on Carter's recent ill-fated trip to Gaza and other salubrious points nearby. Yep, there is nothing more ephemeral in this world than the gratitude of Israel. Talk about a slap in the face to the Us. No protests from your corner, though, about that].
US troops in Korea, more like 60 years [i'm counting from 1950], yep, and our deterrent position there will involve us in a war if/when that deterrent fails. Still, i get the impression you'd not mind seeing millions of mostly peaceful and productive South Koreans delivered to the tender mercies og commie Kim Jong-Il if that's what's necessary to buttress your rhetorical point. You're a fine one -- and you fault me for not condeming the Pallys?
Tell me Zisk, if/when the PRC starts a shooting war over Taiwan, and if in the course of that war they use the US weapons Israel has illegally sold them, what will your party line be then? I'm sure [1] you'll find some way to rationalize it : "well, every country berays an ally eventiually, why single out Israel for that, disn't the US repudiate it's Treaty Of Friendship with France in 1797?" or [2] the old Pally standbys of Hamas/Hizbullah/Islaamic Jihad, etc.. will take the fall.
And no, i'm not making it up. Just search/Google "Israeli Arms Sales To The PRC" [or any reasonable variation of that] and you'll see what I'm talking about. That is, if you're interested in learning that your heroes of Zion are not perfect -- but I sincerely doubt that your interests run in that direction.
Plestine liberated in 1948? You make me laugh. The tedious Brits created this damn problem and then cut and run when it got too tough and they ran out of cash to sustain their putrid empire. Yeah, as Mandatory Authority the Brits did really great protecting the rights of the pre-existing population of Palestine, which they had obligated themselves to do in the Balfour Declaration and later as the Mandatory Authority under the auspices of the League of Nations.
Really, if I had any influence in society at large, i'd coin some cute little phrase to describe Israel -- "Savenger State" or "Jackal Ntate." It thrives solely in those sad little pockets of inattention and disinterest created by the inattention and/or ineptitude and/or areas of political stalemate of larger powers. Glad you came out of the Zionist closet officially Zisk. Not that I had any doubt on the score of where those sympathies actually were to be found.
I can see the frothing at the mouth all the way from here.
"Still, i get the impression you'd not mind seeing millions of mostly peaceful and productive South Koreans delivered to the tender mercies og commie Kim Jong-Il if that's what's necessary to buttress your rhetorical point."
You may have that impression for some bizarre reason (although I expect its really just more trolling on your part) but it comes not from anything I've said. I think its fine US has troops in SK to protect them from NK. I never said the troops should leave and put the SKers at the mercy of NK. I wouldn't want that at all. So yes, I still fault you for not once condemning the terrorist acts of Hamas/Hezbollah/Islamic Jihad/etc. I would think that at the very least you would want to condemn them for all the Palestinians they indiscriminately blowup when they happen to be near the targeted Israeli children, or on the same bus, or in the same market square etc. But apparently as long as enough Isreali children are shot or blown up, the rest is immaterial. And you have the audacity to ridicule Israeli soldiers with your pithy "collateral damage" remarks if they kill an innocent Palestinian while in the process of trying to stop the Palestinian terrorists. You are a total hypocrite. And I really don't give a damn whatever cutesy name you stay up late at night working on to rename Israel. If it amuses you, so be it.
-- Modified on 5/2/2008 2:07:34 PM
fault away, my friend. It's not as if no one else is condemning Pally terrorism, so there's no slack to be taken up there. And i feel no need to prove anything to you, so you can keep on waiting. And keep on faulting. No doubt you'd claim a tottal liack of sincerity if I did.
With your total, unreasoning, 100% straight down the hardline defense of all things zionist/likudist/sharonist/beginite/shamirist/Kahanite/Jabotinskite, it's clear that you are the Zionist counterpart to tallslim226.
I'll take you at your word that Pally deaths mean something to you. Though it IS hard to believe given the temper and tone of the rest of your remarks.
Me and the Pally terrorists eagerly await your next response to this latest troll.