WARNING : this response contains a juvenile attempt at humor and does not attempt to make a substantial rebuttal to the post to which i've attached it :
Doc, would it be more to your liking if, instead of attempting to hijack your thread [hijacking for quite some time being a Pally specialty, thoug it seems happily to have fallen into disuse], I instead illegally occupied it [illegal occupation being an Israeli speciality]? nyuck! nyuck!! nyuck!!!
From the linked article:
Despite U.S. and international laws which recognize waterboarding as torture - a technique which dates back at least to the Spanish Inquisition, and for which U.S. courts have obtained convictions as a war crime - CIA Director Michael Hayden said the use of waterboarding by the U.S. was legal in 2002 and 2003 because a Justice Department lawyer signed a secret legal opinion claiming terror detainees were not protected by the Geneva Convention's ban on torture.
When that opinion was rescinded after it became public in 2004, other secret opinions were written declaring extreme interrogation methods could be approved by the president.
Such authorizations were at odds with public statements by President Bush and then-Attorney General Alberto Gonzales who declared torture to be “abhorrent” and which indicated that the waterboarding of detainees was not allowed by the U.S.
During 2002-2003, the administration said this week, waterboarding was in fact authorized for use on three detainees - accused al Qaeda members Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Abu Zubaydah and Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri - because of widespread belief among U.S. intelligence officials that catastrophic attacks by al Qaeda were imminent.
Even after the Supreme Court ruled in 2006 that al Qaeda prisoners were subject to Geneva Convention protections, the president in July signed an executive order approving "enhanced" interrogation techniques on certain prisoners. As revealed in The New York Times, the order, approved by the White House Office of Legal Counsel (OLC), authorizes the CIA to use such techniques banned by international law.
Under the provisions of the secret order, waterboarding could only be authorized by the president.
Intelligence experts have not only denounced the use of waterboarding, saying that intelligence obtained through that method is questionable, but have allowed that its use exposes those who authorize it to indictment on charges of war crimes.
[As a side note, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said this week that the president is demanding that Steven Bradbury, who signed off on secret legal opinions allowing the use of waterboarding, be appointed to the head of the Office of Legal Counsel, a post which requires Senate confirmation.
Reid charges the president with purposely holding up more than 84 post nominations for federal agencies and judgeships, refusing to move forward on them unless the Senate OKs Bradbury. Meanwhile, the president blamed Congress for holding up the nominations, without mentioning Bradbury, whose duties at OLC (according to a former OLC head) could include writing an "advance pardon" excusing lawbreaking by the Executive Branch.]
Gonzo's comment: Let the Impeachment Proceedings Begin!
Interesting post, DG, but here's how Bush & Co get off [that is, evade legal acountability, not obtain sexual gratification]. It's just a fanciful notion, mind you, but I can dream.
I call it "The Mossad Defense," and it's simplicity itself:
Dubya : "We found out that both the Mossad and the Shin Bet employ waterboarding with promiscous abandon, and you don't never heard no criticisms of them for that. So me and Dick figured it's all good, that's that, and here we are. Next question, please."
Yep, if that were to come out, and if it were to be verified as true, i predict the whole waterboading criticism would disappear as quickly as, well, a barrel going over Niagra Falls, or a water droplet on the desert floor of Death Valley at high noon [in keeping with the H2O spirit.]
Yeah, come to think of it, why ain't no intrepid US journalists looking into the possibility of Israeli waterbaording practices? I mean, Sy Hersch and Alex Cockburn seem as if they would be naturals for this, but, then again, those gents no doubt wish to continue their illustrious journalistic careers, so there's no chance that they're going to risk the death of a 1000 verbal cuts at the hands of Derschowitz or Wiesel or Foxman or AIPAC or, or... to get that story out.
Still, it would be quite amusing, and provide me with ample chortle opportunities, if Dubya and Dick ever got that desperate and adopted that line of defense, if only out of rhetorical necessity.
See you at the next Amenesty International fundraiser.
Your comment is both specious and misleading.
Show me one incident of even supposed waterboarding by Israel.
Xiao, this thread is supposed to be about the impeachable offenses committed by the Bush Cheney administration.
For you to attempt to hijack this thread into yet another of your misguided anti-Israel excoriations is nothing short of... well, nothing short of typical.
Israel doesn't use waterboarding. It's not really that effective a means for obtaining reliable information, and they're smart enough to know that. And YOU know it too.
Now, you got something constructive and relevant to add to the subject matter of the thread, by all means, please have at it.
Otherwise, go back to doing whatever it is you do when you're not foaming over during a chortling episode.
And do have an excellent weekend. Don't forget to buy stocks in Gaza Powerplants, Ltd.
WARNING : this response contains a juvenile attempt at humor and does not attempt to make a substantial rebuttal to the post to which i've attached it :
Doc, would it be more to your liking if, instead of attempting to hijack your thread [hijacking for quite some time being a Pally specialty, thoug it seems happily to have fallen into disuse], I instead illegally occupied it [illegal occupation being an Israeli speciality]? nyuck! nyuck!! nyuck!!!
Neither Reid or Pelose have the guts.
today's Dems don't actually believe in much, if anything.
Look at Barack and The Clintons. Their debates are like an episodes of Seinfeld. All the talk about the two of them is which one is going to win over more blacks. Whoose going to get more of the women? Which way are the black women going to cut? And the Hispanics, is Barack or the Clintons going to cater to the Hispanic vote more.
Contrast to the Republicans. They have been (and still are) having debates, arguments and even anguish over topics and issues that they actually think about and care about.
-- Modified on 2/9/2008 11:46:01 AM
The Republicans are falling prey to the myth that there's anyone left under age 40 that gives a shit about "issues" and falling further prey to out-of-touch mis-information that there's even a tiny voting-block left that has enough education or mental-prowess to hang with an issue-based debate!
I'll credit the Dem-campain-planners with KNOWING the condition of America's priorities and attention-span, all the talk about is pop-culture and the freebee-giveaways they'll dish out... They'll win... (and we're FUCKED!)
Read these words back yourself slowly without your dick in your hand. Contemplate their meaning....than ask yourself,,
So fuckin what?
""""During 2002-2003, the administration said this week, waterboarding was in fact authorized for use on three detainees - accused al Qaeda members Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Abu Zubaydah and Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri - because of widespread belief among U.S. intelligence officials that catastrophic attacks by al Qaeda were imminent"""
I'd do exactly the same thing under the circumstances and so would the VAST majority of Americans.
BFD
I couldn't agree more! If anything "waterboarding" was to soft for the filthy muslims! I like knowing that my gov is willing to do SOMETHING to extract information and protect us!
I'm all for stinging them repeatedly in the genitals with giant scorpions just for fun...
... they're not the lethal ones. The small ones are.
Oh wait... hmmm. i guess theres nothing wrong with giant scorpions in that scenario after all!
Wheres your disagreement btw? I too said waterboarding is ineffectual.
I just couldn't help but elaborate on kerrickles point.
All three of the possible future Presidents still standing have said they would make an exception for the ticking time bomb scenario. Look at who these THREE (count'em THREE) waterboardees were. One was the guy that held the knife, beheading Richard Pearl for Christ sakes.
If one were to believe the media over the past years, we've left the water troughs littered with the bodies of hundreds or thousands of torture victims.
MSM is in the business of disseminating accurate news. Without sensationalism every little thing and feeding it to ruminants, imagine what would happen to their ad revenue.
We are in an era of brain dead reality shows, Jerry Springer, Dr. Phil and the Queen Oprah!
Need I say more?
OK, I'm with you on that take. I'm sure that's how Israel treats their instances. We should take notes.
Behind closed doors and no sissies allowed..Hopefully they have a special "extremist sized blender" full of pig guts and water. for the special water blended interrogations.
-- Modified on 2/9/2008 8:03:39 PM
Everybody forgets it was Bill Clinton that used rendition before Bush and that is why you never hear Hillary say anything about waterboarding.
By the way Bush and Cheney will never be impeached over waterboarding because Pelosi knew what was going on along with other high level DEMS . (To OP on the subject)
-- Modified on 2/9/2008 10:28:02 PM
In September 2002, four members of Congress met in secret for a first look at a unique CIA program designed to wring vital information from reticent terrorism suspects in U.S. custody. For more than an hour, the bipartisan group, which included current House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), was given a virtual tour of the CIA's overseas detention sites and the harsh techniques interrogators had devised to try to make their prisoners talk.
Among the techniques described, said two officials present, was waterboarding, a practice that years later would be condemned as torture by Democrats and some Republicans on Capitol Hill. But on that day, no objections were raised. Instead, at least two lawmakers in the room asked the CIA to push harder, two U.S. officials said.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/08/AR2007120801664.html?hpid=topnews