I think you are confused - The guys paying $$$ and the girls charging $$$ are USUALLY for a GFE - that is, a girl-friend experience. That level of intimatcy and service is worth more than a girl who you want to provide a hole so you can get a nut.
Please don't confuse the two - A GFE is not what you are looking for. You are looking to bust a nut. Ergo, you are right; $$$ just to bust a nut is way too expensive. A rubber doll cost $99.00 and your hand is even cheaper. Both can be used over and over again without ever paying a second time.
In as much, I don't think the point of this thread was about the price of busting a nut.
Oh and by the way - the money is good, but we ain't banking like Heidi Fleiss. I have met some really cool people in this business and see them quite often. There is a connection. If I didn't enjoy the person, I wouldn't see them again. Money isn't that important. I feel I see my fair share of hobbyist, and I live comfortably. Seeing how I have a high paying job outside of escorting, I can be as choosy as I want. Again, you generalize us all and it's rather demeaning.
-- Modified on 7/11/2002 10:27:15 PM
I have been of the opinion that prices in the last 10 years or so have been way out of line with prices before that time. I looked up inflation statistics, and actually it isn't as extreme as I thought....there has been significant inflation, and that accounts for the majority of the price increase. But still, I think there is an increase beyond that, and I'm not sure why.
Some background - in 1982-84 (maybe later), about $100 was standard, for fairly high-end service. By this I mean something like you would find on the internet today (not walking around on the street). Advertisement was largely by paper in those days, but essentially the similar to the internet type of ad. One major difference of course, is that there was no AIDS. Well, it was out there, but (you younger folks may not know this!) for many years AIDS was thought to be exclusively transmitted by anal intercourse. So it did not enter into the thinking until later in the 80's. Consequently, in the early 80's, BBFS was 100% standard.
The US Dept. of Labor provides a convenient calculator of inflation, which shows that $100 in 1982 dollars is the same as $186 today. Or $100 in 1984 dollars is worth $173 today. Going out to 1986, the $100 service would be equivalent to charging $164 today. I also knew of very high-end service in another town for $75 in 1981, which equates to $148 today.
Now today, it seems like the absolute minimum for this same quality is $200, and up to as much as $300. Comparing to the early '80's, I think something in the $150-$175 range is reasonable based solely on inflation. So why is the actual increase more than that?
The only explanation I could come up with is that AIDS has tipped the supply/demand scale a bit. Knowing men, it makes sense that the demand side would be relatively insensitive to anything. But the supply side might be sensitive to perceived risk/reward. On the other hand, maybe that doesn't make sense - after all, even with the change in the prominence of AIDS, there is the offsetting fact that covered FS is standard today. And covered FS today is still much safer than BBFS was back then.
So, I'm not sure. Does anybody else have an explanation?
-Scott.
Like with any business once you get the word out to a larger customer base the demand goes up. With the advent of the Internet and web sites the word was out, not in local massage ads or underground papers but instantly across the nation, communication became easy with email. As the demand increased many of the top providers raised their prices to slow down the flow of email and to keep the workload where they wanted it to be. This demand caused the prices to rise at a rate substantially higher than the inflation rate. With the increased number of Escorts you would think that the price would slowly drop again, but due to other factors such as LE this will probably never happen. Unfortunately this is one case where Newton's law doesn't apply "what goes up, just isn't coming down". Just my thoughts on your subject.
I somewhat disagree with hotlick on this one. While Newton's law may not apply to all, it may apply to some. Recently, some providers have either begun to mildly drop rates (at least for regulars), while some other have seriously considered it. I only know this from personal communications with providers and do not intend this to be a blanket statement upon all providers.
I also, don't really understand as to why the rate of pleasure has surpassed the rate of actual inflation. I somewhat agree and disagree with hotlick's assumption that it has to do with LE. Providers and hobbyists should always have bail money set aside.LOL. I guess it could be considered the risk factor, but I disagree with it. How does one determine what risk is worth?? $25? $50? $100?
From what I have read, the rip-off artists usually charge less that the honest professionals that provide FS. From about 150 or a bit more for a standard show. No extras. I only know of a few FS girls that charge less than $$$.
I also agree with ness as far as the greed factor goes. While Point Loma, La Jolla, and Del Mar are very expensive places to live, El Cajon, Santee, Lakeside and a few areas in the South Bay are not. Just my 2 cents.
-- Modified on 7/8/2002 4:43:26 PM
I agree with Scott and hotlick... though I think the governments (local, state and federal) are hugely at fault as well.
The local rates (and national ones as well) are way out of hand, sort of like the cost of real estate. After analyzing numbers and possible causes, it appears that the government has quite a bit more to do with the artificially high prices than either they would acknowledge or what most people would be willing to initially admit.
In property values, the high taxes (this state along with NY/NJ are the highest), building permits (CA is in the 50k-80k range, where as most states are 2k-5k) and high insurance (numerous lawsuits trigger higher insurance coverage for workers and construction) are simply passed on to the consumer; which are exactly what makes housing here go up nearly double the national average. Simply remove these anomalies from the initial cost of property development, then you would see property values in this area easily go back down to the national average.
In the provider market, the LE have no doubtedly increased the risk, and hence the cost. But you cannot ignore the fundamental reason people want (and sometimes need) more money: this area is very expensve for the reasons I listed above. In fact, more than one provider have mentioned the outrageous cost of living out here - though interestingly the salaries in this area are not much higher (if at all) than anywhere else.
The real beneficiaries are of course the mexican providers. They should not be any more than $25-$40, yet their rates have gone up because ours have; despite the fact they are not subject to our legal/tax problems. For example, in 1995, I paid $30 for a hottie in TJ, now she would undoubtedly charge $80-$100 with the excuse that "you can't get better in San Diego."
Lastly, let's not ignore the greed factor. Simply put, people are just get greedier as time goes by.
I'd be curious to hear other's opinions...
Everything I have read in this thread has made sense. But I had a few thoughts after reading it all.
Almost everything has gone up in this business. I'll give you some insight as to how cash goes in and out of a provider's hands.
Inflow: Average 4 guys a week. Some may be more, some may be less, but 4 is realistic. This equals roughly $1200.00 for a $$$ an hour girl. This is $4800.00 a month. (and $57,600 a year)
Outflow: about $800.00 a month for advertising, internet, website, lingerie, gas, cell phone, and other misc items.
This brings it to about $48,000 a year. Now if this is your sole source of income, you're going broke. Sometimes business dies down and providers offer "specials" to bring in more business to compensate. A free (or really cheap) ad in the adult papers back in the 80's left you with a little more than all of this high-tech way of advertising. However, high-tech also brings in more business.
As a thought, if a girl sees 7 guys a week average, she's making $100,800 a year tax-free.
A thing you should remember is that we aren't talking about selling cars or washing windows. We are talking about a very personal and intimate part of someone's life - that goes for both the provider and the hobbyist. "Discretion" and "privacy" cost a lot more than money.
My main belief has always been this:
If I provide my services for $, then almost anyone can have me. Anybody with an extra $. By charging $$$ - $$$$, I meet higher class men with standards and manners. They actually make me enjoy the time we spend together. Men who can afford $$$ are better educated and have a good idea of how to treat a woman.
Having worked for an agency before, $150 attracted every scum sucking clown in San Diego. I had VERY FEW good experiences working there.
Instead of complaining about $$$, how about be thankful that the provider you are seeing has a standard that she will not compromise to make a quick buck. Your safety, as well as hers, is congruent with the amount she charges.
Now on the flipside, some girls do charge way more than their level of service. I happen to feel that IF I accept a date with a guy, I should make sure that every dollar he spends on me is worth it! It may be why many guys often give more than what is required. On the other hand, I do give some guys a discount AFTER we have set a date. It's my thanks to them for being a great person to be with.
Ouch! This got long winded very quick! Again, this is me and my POV. I hate to try and generalize either providers or hobbyist.
GPV: You are way out-of-line and off base. If you think charging more money secures that you will see a man who knows how to treat a lady your crazy. If he knew how to treat a lady, why is he going to you? In addition, SAFE!!! How safe are you when a man with money like a drug dealer ties you up and leaves you in a hotel room? I do recall a recent provider (baileysantanna) who moved out of the area because she feared she was being stalked by a customer. Please save us your BS and quit trying to justify the cost. Bottom Line, we set the price and as you can see, talk of that is beginning. As a matter of fact, I talked a provider down from $$$ to $$ just recently and even had one offer discounts and offered to split the room. You providers should feel lucky we even pay you that much.
whered you pull a drug dealer tying her up in the room out of? they screen. I dont think drug dealer is a job to pass providers screening? oh and why not treat ladies like ladies? whats up with that. nothing cool about being cheap, rude. providers set the price. if you can't pay go find a girl who is less. or do the tj thing. if girls can't get the work rates drop by nature. too many girls say no talking about money anyway. so you cant bargain if you can't talk about it. providers should feel lucky their payed what ever you want to give? I can't go with that. were all in the same hobby right here, no one better then anyone else.
Screen!!! Give me a break. Does missmoon ring-a-bell? Got busted!!! From what I read, she was queen missscreen ... even with paypal as a deposit. Cheap!!! Hardly, I spend approx. $2000/mo on activities of this nature. Again, we set the price not them. If you're not man enough to stand up for principal and stop letting the providers tell you when, where, and how much, ... step aside jr. Take charge of the situation, get some backbone, and set the price. You'll find they would much rather have $$ instead of zero. As far as us against them, how loyal are your providers? Stop seeing them, and see if their still your boosom budy.
First off - Do not tell me I'm way out of line! Who the hell do you think you are?
And guess what? You proved my point exactly! My price is firm and it keeps people like YOU out of my league. I just can't believe you had the gump to say, "If he knew how to treat a lady, why is he going to you?" Don't generalize other hobbyist like that because this is how you see yourself!
Talking a provider down? That's classy! Why don't you start a movement to set the price on gasoline or movie tickets - then at least you would accomplish something someone could appreciate!
Sorry if this feeds your flame, but you crossed the line dude!
I think the prices have went up much faster than the rate of inflation because the internet is a more efficient method of advertising than the newspapers. Without reviews and in most cases pictures guys were only willing to risk a certain amount of money so prices tended to stay lower. Also most guy have been convinced that it is not proper to negotiate price and or talk at all about $. In the 80's when you called up a new provider you did not know what she charged. One of the questions you would ask is how much? In some cases she would ask what you could donate or else she would name a price. She might just agree to the number you mentioned. If she mentioned a number that was higher than you wanted to pay, you would thank her for her time and tell her that it was more than you wanted to spend and say goodbye. In many cases before you could say goodbye the provider would start to negotiate the price. Now with prices posted on websites, reviews or discussion boards a provider will "act" insulted if you attempt to negotiate prices. There is not necessarily a correlation between the money spent and the service provided by the lady. In other words you may have gotten better performance from the $200 provider than you did from the $400 provider. Also just because a provider charges more does not necessarily mean that she will me a better class of client unless your definition of high class means has money. It does mean that she will make more money per client. Many of the clients who have the money to book very high priced ladies did not get that money by being nice guys.
Generalizations are, by nature, tough because they tend to overlook those who don't fall easily under them. However, perhaps, the actual cost of living has increased more than the calculated rate of inflation by the government.
I believe that this cost of living is regionalized to a certain extent, influenced by real estate values, availability of good paying jobs, and other things. Maybe people's ability to earn money is being outpaced by the rate at which this cost of living is increasing. The things that people "want" to buy are becoming more and more expensive.
Not to say that every provider is shooting for that million dollar home overlooking the ocean, but providers are human too. Just like I want that nice car, nice house, etc., it should be reasonable to expect them to want nice things as well. And nice things just simply cost more these days.
But what do I know? In the 80's, I was going through high school and seeing a provider was not on the radar for me. I've only been in the hobby for about a year, so I came in right around when the rates started going to $$$, so I don't know any better. 
I will say that if I saw rates more in the $$ range for the quality providers, I would be able to hobby more than I do now, but then again, maybe that's not such a good thing.
Just my $0.02. Peace out!
BKMan
... and being around during the 70's when the "Full Nude Switch" was in vogue, I can certainly say that the costs of this hobby has certain out distanced the inflation factor by a long shot. Of course now days you can die from whatever STD has mutated and being passed around.
If some shank on the street offered a BBBJ for $20 you'll be buying more than just a few moments of pleasure, how does the saying go? "Herpes, the gift that keeps on giving"
Frankly, $$$ for a clean, safe, discreet, GFE is well worth it to me. And once you become a regular any provider in her right mind will negotiate a discount. It's better to have a stable of regular clients than have to dance the two-step with every newbie you come across.
Anyway basic economics states that the intersection of the supply and demand curves dictate what the market will bear. So if a provider wants $$$$ then more power to her. She just priced me out of her client base. Her loss, another providers gain.
I was in San Francisco back in December. I spoke with a few business owners who claimed that the stock market bubble of the mid to late 90s, drove prices for everything to unnaturally high levels. They also said that after stocks corrected (feeling some of that pain myself) the high prices for goods and services did not go back down.
I think that this may have some influence on pricing in the hobby in the last five or six years. Another factor is not only the advent of the net, but the quality of providers who are offering escort services. Attractive, passionate women, who realize that a Geo Cities ad, a few pics and a cell phone can lead to 3, 4 or even 5 hundred an hour are doing just that. I don't mind paying up for quality, as long as I feel that I am being treated decently. MfSD.
HomeBoy,,,really nice post,,only one point I would disagree. Price doesn't guarantee it being clean if you are talking about SDTs.
Though you are correct, rb1, that price does not guarantee a disease-free (or drug-free, or general-danger-free) environment. Nothing can guarantee our safety whenever we enter into any new situation...so we have to go by probability...
I do believe that SDHomeboy is correct in that there is a higher probability of walking into a more desirable situation when you decide to meet with providers who are NOT far below the current average going rate. I could be wrong but...with a few exceptions...on average: isn't there a tendency (and yes I know there are exceptions to everything) for a lowered rate to indicate higher volume (or a rip-off?) A higher volume cattle-call type environment would indicate a greater risk for disease...wouldn't it? (Not to mention that very high-volume environments seem most likely to be associated with those who have substance abuse problems for a variety of reasons...an environment which contains even greater risks. (And no, I'm not saying that all those ladies who have lesser rates and see large numbers of clients have drug problems...I just believe that there is a higher liklihood of such.)
-- Modified on 7/9/2002 4:31:59 PM
First I hope everyone would be practicing safe sex,,so the chance of SDT's would be low, and SDT is really all I was bringing up. While a provider at or higher than the average would probably not have a large volume like a say a SG,,,we also have to factor in the people she is seeing. Say "horny Hank" normally goes for a high volume low cost provider,,,and all of a sudden "HH" comes into some cash and sees a higher cost provider. Well now our $$$ provider has been with "HH" and basically all the low end providers he's slept with and their low paying clients. Now a $$$ provider may have a tougher screening process and old "HH" might not even get to see her so that is something else to factor in.
But again,,if everyone practices safe sex,,,then the chances of them being disease-free is much greater
Like I said before,,basically I did agree with SD Homeboy's post.
LOL,,,,how many times did I type that??? LOL,,,,An SDT is what most people call STD!!! It only becomes SDT when you have had way to many shots of Tequila over your lifetime LOL
While there are no guarantees in anything in this business, many safe-guards and stipulations can help. A few of the guys really took my view the wrong way. $$$ doesn't guarantee that I'll see a great guy, but it sure helps. Just like a guy having an extra $$$ doesn't mean he can see me either. There are a few other things a guy has to have.
I have to question the guys that want to see a high-class escort, expect high-class service, but complain about having to show their ID or pay more than $. I can tell a TRUE hobbyist from a guy just looking for a piece of tail pretty easily. In conversations and email, the hobbyist will automatically offer a lot of information about himself and definitely not ask the wrong questions - plus, he has done a great amount of research on me already. Amatuers will send a short email like this:
"Hey can u cum over tonight - How much u charge to do me - Laterz, Kdog"
I guess I'll have to retract my earlier statement now - I GUARANTEE I won't be seeing him!
Again fellows - I agree 100% that if you are going to pay $$$, it better be worth it! Which brings to mind Sydney Gypsy - a money back guarantee - which seeing how she looks really hot and sounds like a lot of fun, I don't think anyone will take her up on it..... Is she setting a new standard for us to follow? That may stifle a lot of complaints about paying so much.
Oh yeah - I called a plumber out on Sunday to fix a broken valve - his hourly rate was more than mine! I guess I should have called a TJ plumber....
"Oh yeah - I called a plumber out on Sunday to fix a broken valve - his hourly rate was more than mine! I guess I should have called a TJ plumber.... "
Or you should have paid by barter (exchange laying of pipe?)....and posted the juicy details here!
Interesting topic and thread.
Ground rule - it's OK to disagree, but keep it civil!
I don't need to see human body parts flying through the air!
interesting thread to say the least. most importantly i think the main issue has been overlooked - basic economics. a manufacturer, wholesaler, retailer or any vendor does not base their price on inflation. they base it on what the market will bear. it is called supply and demand. if one of our gorgeous, loving (san diego girls rule), providers wants to reach an exclusive market, say $$$ and over, it reduces the demand. while on the other hand those that charge less have greater demand. what's important here is to take in consideration the risk factor at the lower amount charged, more service is required thus more chances of things going wrong increase (le, rip-offs, ill-manners, etc.). but the potenitial for higher income is greater, because of the increased market - risk vs greater rewards. the higher priced individual reduces risk and shrinks their market, but can still maintain a profitable enity. the long and the short is you spend your dollars according to your monetary means. if you want to see a provider weekly their are plenty who offer reasonable prices. if you want the more lucrative providers - save up. . .
I really don't know why you'll are hobbyists. But from where I sit, its all about getting the best nut for my money. All that other stuff about safe, the more money you pay the better the service, ... is a bunch of hogwash. If you think your safer (no STDs) because you pay more, your fooling yourself. SAFE IS NOT AND WILL NEVER BE AN OPTION IN THIS BUSINESS. Even with a condom (condoms break and are manmade), there is 1% chance a girl can become pregnant and either of you can get STDs. And quite frankly, I have never and doubt you guys well ever meet a high price exclusive girl that will be worth the money. If you do, marry her but you probably won't be able to keep her unless you are dirt rich. Honestly, ask yourself why you partake in this hobby. Providers ask yourself why you partake. I doubt very much its because you feel connected some way with your hobbiest. IT'S ABOUT MONEY for the providers. As such, it must be a concern for us, because the more we give (money) the more you want.
I think you are confused - The guys paying $$$ and the girls charging $$$ are USUALLY for a GFE - that is, a girl-friend experience. That level of intimatcy and service is worth more than a girl who you want to provide a hole so you can get a nut.
Please don't confuse the two - A GFE is not what you are looking for. You are looking to bust a nut. Ergo, you are right; $$$ just to bust a nut is way too expensive. A rubber doll cost $99.00 and your hand is even cheaper. Both can be used over and over again without ever paying a second time.
In as much, I don't think the point of this thread was about the price of busting a nut.
Oh and by the way - the money is good, but we ain't banking like Heidi Fleiss. I have met some really cool people in this business and see them quite often. There is a connection. If I didn't enjoy the person, I wouldn't see them again. Money isn't that important. I feel I see my fair share of hobbyist, and I live comfortably. Seeing how I have a high paying job outside of escorting, I can be as choosy as I want. Again, you generalize us all and it's rather demeaning.
-- Modified on 7/11/2002 10:27:15 PM
GPV: From my point of view (no pun intended), GFE is all hype for providers to charge more because the say their GFE.
Providers are paid to be nice, cordial, and to stay the full hour as advertised ie. I will take you to places you never had been before ... you'll be begging me to stop ... She's friendly, relaxed and lots of fun to be with ... I am classy and educated and best suited for the man that appreciates beauty and class.
... Hello gentlemen. I'm a young, innocent and tasty blonde looking to stimulate your brain and fulfill your fantasy. Guaranteed to put a smile on your face and make your time with me extremely enjoyable.
QUITE FRANKLY, IT IS WHAT IS EXPECTED REGRADLESS IF YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF GFE!!!
It seems to be what most people want but I think you're looking for a PSE. I'm not sure.
See, some guys will go all out and buy wine or champagne, light candles, buy me some roses, etc.... It's really nice. They want to talk a lot before we get intimate. I really enjoy the experience. But honestly, I still have to get paid. It's not ALL about the money, but money is involved. A guy like this would definitely get a discount next time. However, most guys like this would not accept a discount, and probably throw in a little more. It's been often that I get home, open the envelope and there is $$$$$ to $$$$$$. Are they crazy? I don't think so - they just happen to be well off and are very generous and appreciatative.
Other guys will want to start the action the minute I walk in the door. Not really what I was hoping for. Then there are others that are like this that have little hygiene and have no manners. I am by nature way too nice of a person and will stay anyways most of the time. I never act like I'm disappointed either. Then when I leave, I'm pretty unhappy.
Now as for all the catch phrases that you mentioned, yeah that's pretty corny but most of us all do it. Marketing 101 - it's no different from any other advertisement for any other business.
-- Modified on 7/13/2002 12:44:07 PM
Gfe is pretty special. I just about flipped on my first GFE. Whe she rammed her tongue in my mouth, instant erection. I don't expect this from a provider if she does not advertise it. Have you ever had a GFE mademan?? Just curious. I consider it a treat, so i don't do it often. Either way, it is worth the extra cash in my book.