I implied some "political officers" in the Pentagon decided on how the video was dubbed, and the video was silent, the audio was dubbed over it-- the Navy (the real officers in it, probably) has said it. Those "officers" might have been civilian Bush employees. It might have been an accident or a mistake how it was dubbed, but the Bush administration has a lot of those, usually leading in the same direction.
"Gulf of Tonkin is a shitassed analogy." That says a lot. I thought it was a good analogy only from the results, I'm not saying anything about the original Gulf of Tonkin incident, only that the Bush administration is trying to contrive a similar incident.
How is it shitting ones pants to point out what is already known: the Bush administration is trying to escalate a war against Iran? Using nuclear weapons even. This has been leaked, anonymously, by officers who have drawn it up under duress from the Administration.
So, it's the pants shitters who are going to provoke a war. Yeah, Bill. Just like we did in Iraq, right? The 5 percent who held out in supporting Bush just forced his hand into invading. Now we're going to ruin things again by forcing Bush to nuke Iran.
Do you really think the main reason for opposing Bush is cowardice? We prolong the Iraq war? How did opposing the President ever persuade the Shiites to attack the Sunnis?
Conservatives were myth spinners when it came to Vietnam and they are spinning myths again.
-- Modified on 1/13/2008 9:42:25 AM
Except in Vietnam, the Vietcong didn't have video cameras. For fans of typesetting flaws in the lost Bush Military Records, it seems that in the American version, the Iranian accent is faked.
"Iran TV Says BBC, CNN Complicit in 'Falsity' of US Footage
Vision of the Islamic Republic of Iran Network 1
Thursday, January 10, 2008
Document Type: OSC Translated Text
The navy of the Islamic Revolution Guards Corps aired a clip of the Hormuz Strait incident, which proves the falsity of the claims by American officials. In pictures aired today, the Iranian vessel only asks a few questions from the American one. The American vessel responds to the questions by Iran and this is a routine matter in the activities of the patrol units in maritime territory.
(Iranian patrol in English) Coalition warship seven, three. This is Iranian navy patrol boat Tatone - 16. Navy warship, navy warship seven, three. This is Iranian navy patrol boat Tatone - 16. Come in, over.
(US navy officer over radio, in English) This is Coalition Warship seven three. Roger, over.
(IRGC officer, English) Coalition warship seven three. This is Iranian navy patrol boat Tantoma - 16. Over.
(Passage indistinct)
(Presenter) CNN had aired a clip in which the Iranians had surrounded the American vessel threatening that in a few minutes time you will explode. The CNN and BBC networks aired Iranian footage today but without the sound.
The Iranian deputy admiral of the Islamic Revolution Guards Corps said that the claims of the American officials on threats against the American warships are totally false, because in the main reel the military number of the Iranian person (on his uniform) speaking is shown quite clearly.
Admiral Fadavi added that the conversation between Iranian vessels and other passing vessels is perfectly normal, which happens over and over again.
(Iranian TV aired parts of the video with Farsi caption on English conversations)
(Description of Source: Tehran Vision of the Islamic Republic of Iran Network 1 in Persian -- state-run television). "
The Iranian press is suspicious about the timing of the Pentagon videotape, noting that it was released just as Bush was heading to the Middle East to try to convince the Arab allies of the US to make common cause with Israel against Iran. The Gulf monarchies in particular are very afraid of the Iranian navy, and the Bush administration video would have been useful for pushing the Kuwaitis, the United Arab Emirates, and Saudi Arabia into agreeing with the Bush grand strategy of surrounding Iran and then cutting it off.
(See also today's posting at the Global Affairs blog by Farideh Farhi on Iranian concerns about US intervention in Iranian domestic politics.)
posted by Juan Cole @ 1/11/2008 06:30:00 AM 35 comments
"The navy of the Islamic Revolution Guards Corps aired a clip of the Hormuz Strait incident, which proves the falsity of the claims by American officials".
I must be dumb and gullible since I tend to believe the U.S Navy versus the navy of the Islamic Revolution Guards Corps.
And in the Pentagon version, the guy on the audio doesn't have an Iranian accent!!!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hooman-majd/its-a-fake_b_80682.html
Also make sure you read in the original article that these encounters have always been common. They're narrow straits.
The voice, BTW, seems to be Filipino, and people in the Persian Gulf are familiar with him, apparently.*
I trust the Navy, too. It's the "political officers" in the Pentagon I have trouble with-- the ones trying to give Bush credibility,or at least another war.
I notice a cosmic conversion of allegations about Iran with Bush's trip to the Middle East.
-- Modified on 1/12/2008 7:31:01 PM
In recent years, American ships operating in the Middle East have had to contend with a mysterious but profane voice known by the ethnically insulting handle of "Filipino Monkey," likely more than one person, who listens in on ship-to-ship radio traffic and then jumps on the net shouting insults and jabbering vile epithets.
Navy women -- a helicopter pilot hailing a tanker, for example -- who are overheard on the radio are said to suffer particularly degrading treatment."'
So, apparently the US Navy is operating with near zero ability to tell the difference between a radio pirate screaming profanities and a declaration of war. Based on this madness, the president of the United States nearly declared an all out war
..................................................
"GULF OF TONKIN" is a fucking shittassed analogy Zin and frankly beneath you......or so i thought..
It's that pants shitters that are going to provoke war...
""GULF OF TONKIN" is a fucking shittassed analogy Zin and frankly beneath you......or so i thought.."
Do you really think there is some line that Zin won't cross in an attempt to put Bush in the worst light possible? In pursuit of that goal there is nothing that is "beneath Zin".
I've changed my beliefs when my reasoning has failed or when I was misinformed. Those things are what anybody should do.
I don't believe anything I don't think is real, and I try to strip out assumptions that are invalid-- including popular ones, including my sentiments.
while you're no worse offender than most, the issue is getting emotionally attached to an idea that you only know superficially.
It's like having a crush on a photo, you know?
I don't think any conclusions can be made here. The facts and reliability of the people involved are simply not clear.
The problem is, though, when you are fooled into complicity with war that has created such severe human suffering, you stay alert to the same thing being tried again.
Especially, when the same guy is in charge.
I implied some "political officers" in the Pentagon decided on how the video was dubbed, and the video was silent, the audio was dubbed over it-- the Navy (the real officers in it, probably) has said it. Those "officers" might have been civilian Bush employees. It might have been an accident or a mistake how it was dubbed, but the Bush administration has a lot of those, usually leading in the same direction.
"Gulf of Tonkin is a shitassed analogy." That says a lot. I thought it was a good analogy only from the results, I'm not saying anything about the original Gulf of Tonkin incident, only that the Bush administration is trying to contrive a similar incident.
How is it shitting ones pants to point out what is already known: the Bush administration is trying to escalate a war against Iran? Using nuclear weapons even. This has been leaked, anonymously, by officers who have drawn it up under duress from the Administration.
So, it's the pants shitters who are going to provoke a war. Yeah, Bill. Just like we did in Iraq, right? The 5 percent who held out in supporting Bush just forced his hand into invading. Now we're going to ruin things again by forcing Bush to nuke Iran.
Do you really think the main reason for opposing Bush is cowardice? We prolong the Iraq war? How did opposing the President ever persuade the Shiites to attack the Sunnis?
Conservatives were myth spinners when it came to Vietnam and they are spinning myths again.
-- Modified on 1/13/2008 9:42:25 AM
The Navy has already said the sound was spliced over their video.
When I saw some different reports on this Friday I heard a Navy analyst explain that the reason they did not fire was because the boats were not in a threatening distance but close and there was speculation the transmissions about "we blow you up' were coming from a rogue on shore..Also no weapons were detected by the navy scan on the speed boats..Nevertheless the video of the speed boats circling was odd at the least.IMO