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Politics and Religion

Proof that there is no god
God In Training 2433 reads
posted

This makes sense!

Related Link: http://www.xanga.com/mygodisdead/612995570/interesting-view-of-god.html

laperla3079 reads

Sex either leads us to say "oh god" or we get lead to "God"! There is alot of politics in religion and vice versa.  We see that the wars created in one part of the world allow for other parts of the world to create peace coaltions which in a sense of the universe, keep everything globally balanced.  The man upstairs will always keep a balance of everything we can mortally imagine in order to policitically become a voice or to allow ourselves to be subordinated to certain authorities in the corporate world or to a religion. We know there is a Divine Power, therefore subordinating to a particular power is denying ourselves our own magnificence.

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Jack Daniels1758 reads

Religion is responsible for more human misery than any other evil force in the history of mankind. Where was God during the Holocaust?  Where was God during the crusades when Christian Solders slaughtered Muslims in the name of God?  What is God’s position on the Muslims who think anyone who is not a Muslim in an infidel and should die?  What is God’s position on the Christian belief that if you don’t accept Jesus as you savior you cannot get into heaven?  What is going to happen to all the people who have never heard of Jesus, are they going to hell?  

The whole concept of religion and God is bizarre.  Everything is based on the Bible and other bogus writings that were written as long as a two thousand years ago.  They were written by human beings who wrote about the world the way they perceived at that time. Would you allow a surgeon to operate on you if the medicine he studied was two thousand years old?  If there is a God, why does he let charlatans like Pat Robertson, Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Bakker, etc. represent him?  Any thief can buy a Bible and start his own church.  He could be driving a truck one day and be a preacher the next.  Why drive a truck when you can drive a Mercedes?  The modern day evangelists make a fortune on preaching hate and guilt to the fools who listen to them.  They tell their followers that they are sinful people and the only way they can get to heaven is to repent to God, through their collection baskets.  

They try to force their so called morals on a secular society that is too intelligent to buy into their bull shit.  They resist progress like stem cell research based on the Bible.  They want to do away with the theory of evolution and return to the ridiculous idea of creation.  They preach that homosexuality is an immoral choice rather than genetic.  They feel the government should persecute gays and lesbians because they are sinners.  The list goes on and on.  

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NeedleDicktheBugFucker1995 reads

Think about that a while.

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Jack Daniels1807 reads

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NeedleDicktheBugFucker1885 reads

Our lives are universally shortened by our ignorance.
Herbert Spencer

""Religion is responsible for more human misery than any other evil force in the history of mankind. Where was God during the Holocaust?  Where was God during the crusades when Christian Solders slaughtered Muslims in the name of God?  What is God’s position on the Muslims who think anyone who is not a Muslim in an infidel and should die?  What is God’s position on the Christian belief that if you don’t accept Jesus as you savior you cannot get into heaven?  What is going to happen to all the people who have never heard of Jesus, are they going to hell?""

While the fact I point it is simple, the import is profound. And lost on you.  

-- Modified on 9/2/2007 10:49:14 PM

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XiaomingLover11749 reads

I am intrigued by Herbert Spencer's newfound popularity on this Board.  Some of us may be scrambling to "Barletts' Familar Quotations" as a result. [www.bartleby.com  and www.online-literature.com/quotes/quotations.php].  Think of it as a quotes race, or a quips race.


HS does seem to undervalue the positives that the ignorant can bring to our lives   -- a hightened amusement level being my personal fave  -- which can counterbalance their negatives, as I've pointed out earlier.

As a matter of fact :  www.newyorker.com.  Find the archives for the recent issue August 13, 2007 and check out, for those so inclined, Steven Shapin "Man With a Plan:  Herbert Spencer's Theory of Everything."

What next, Malthus quotes?  Thomas Carlyle jottings?

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NeedleDicktheBugFucker2122 reads

actually, i was looking for another quote by Spencer in which he spoke of "contempt prior to investigation" as being an excellent way to perpetuate ignorance.

I felt JD's idiotic response to what was really not a threating suggetion to me warranted it. His is the type of response that has taught me a long time ago not to discuss at length God/religion.

-- Modified on 9/3/2007 10:53:47 AM

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jack01165331742 reads

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Origin_of_Consciousness_in_the_Breakdown_of_the_Bicameral_Mind

religion may have originated in the reliance on instinct to deal with situations; and as consciousness clouds instinct, people may try to replace it with answers before the question is ever asked.

And religion is not any particular label, but rather a pattern of acting on beliefs that aren't objectively reasonable or substantiated.    It's not just merely what is usually accepted as religion, but also the wider habit of doing anything based on superstition, including the superstitious beliefs of many scientists who don't read their own goddamned journals.

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Hollys Hobby6915 reads

to me is the sense that there is something greater out there.  I do not subscribe to any one particular religion.  Religion does not discriminate, teach hatred, and support mass murder.  Those that use religion as their shield for what is truly immoral pervert religion as a whole.

God is a being used to help focus people.  He/she is a center point used to rally the masses and keep discipline.  In the Old Testament God is portrayed as an angry, vengeful being.  In the New Testament it appears God has gone to anger manangement classes.

Buddha is a peaceful being who teaches kindness, forgiveness, etc.  Shintoism, Taoism, whatever you subscribe to is meant to provide a sense of peace and help answer the impossible.

"Give it to God."  It's a therapeutic way of handing over the stress, tension, grief that  feel at some poiht in ou lives.

As humans we have sought answers to the unknown.  What couldn't be explained by the great thinkers of the day was explaind by the Church.  The Dark Ages is an example of what can happen when one precludes the other.

The Judaic belief that God exists within us and is shown with our positive acts is truly simplisitc and complicated.  We are reaponsible for our own acts, but our acts show God's love.

In the end it is about personal responsibility and making the right choices as defined by us.  Harm no one should be everyone's motto.

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DoctorGonzo1650 reads

if i may...

1 -  "In the New Testament it appears God has gone to anger manangement classes." --- I disagree. More people have been killed in the name of Jesus Christ than any other reason. Where is the lesson in anger management and tolerance?

2 - "Buddha is a peaceful being who teaches kindness, forgiveness, etc.  Shintoism, Taoism, whatever you subscribe to is meant to provide a sense of peace and help answer the impossible."

I agree with you except to point out that these are philosophical guidelines absent the dogma of religious constructs, and so are a unique and separate category, out of phase with religion.

3 - "The Judaic belief that God exists within us and is shown with our positive acts is truly simplisitc and complicated." - Judaism is governed by The Torah, which governs and guides the interaction between Man and God. But the day to day activity and social interaction is guided by the Shulchan Aruch, the Code of Ethics, which concerns itself exclusively with Mans interaction with Man/Woman. There is little reference to any diety in the latter's volumes.



-- Modified on 9/3/2007 1:21:28 AM

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Hollys Hobby1714 reads

Doctor Gonzo

1.  God has calmed down in the New Testament.  I didn't say what people were doing.  What people do in the name of any God is beyond the Book they follow.  

2.  To many these are forms of religion so must be counted in the religion category.  The subcontinent of India may be interested to know that Hinduism does not count as a religion.

3.  No, but the Rabbi who taught me this sure believed it and taught it as part of the teachings of the Torah.

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DoctorGonzo2382 reads

1 - Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Matthew 10:34

2 - Hindu is a religion with many many gods and demi-gods and was never included in your original text.

3 - That may very well be. Was/is he Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, Reconstructionist, Sephardic, Haredi, a Satmer Chassid, Ethiopian Falasha, perhaps even one of the few remaining youtai of Kaifeng, China. All are sects within Judaism, all share common ground, all have unique perspectives and philosophies within the construct of the Jewish belief system. (ps - i wasn't looking for an argument:) )

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Hollys Hobby1579 reads

I took Spanish in highschool.  I can only count up to three in French.

I understand there wasn't an arguemet intended and I hold no anger.

1.  Still based on your post of people starting wars it's much friendlier than flooding the earth, burning down a town, turning a person into salt, etc.

2.  You're right, but the etc or others part was all encompassing to include Hinduism, Wicca, etc..  Still even in Hinduism there are gods and goddess such as Shiva and Kali that bring about destruction through war.  Buddhism also has a very strong following amongst the Eastern countries.  The followers of Buddhism ,Shintoism, etc, etc, still believe their belief is a religion.  

 The thing is while these and many other smaller sects of religions exist when was the last time a Buddhist or a Taoist ( Wiccan, Druid, etc.) declared an act of violence, invasion, war or jihad in the name of their God?  Christ, Allah, Yaweh did not necessarily support violence on the level those who use religion as their shield do.

3. Reform

The basic tenents of most religions are peace and treating others as we wish to be treated.  It is people who subvert the texts, justify their thoughts and actions by using God and religion as a shield.  

Am I religous?  Yes.
Do I subscribe to one faith? No.
Do I believe in God?  I believe that if there is a higher being it is one that is a cumulation of all the world's Gods.

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NeedleDicktheBugFucker1492 reads

no
no
bingo!

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DoctorGonzo2300 reads

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God In Training2434 reads

This makes sense!

Related Link: http://www.xanga.com/mygodisdead/612995570/interesting-view-of-god.html

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XiaomingLover11785 reads

I was propagandized in RC grade school that He is omnipotent and omnipresent, which means he all powerful and everywhere.

My deep loathing for most of my fellow man would lead me to advise you, that wherever and whenever you seek to find evidence or proof of the spirit of God, most of your fellow man is the last place you ought to start your quest.

But that would be overly discouraging, if not an absolute counsel of despair, so I'll refrain.

I'm personally inclined to utter "oh fuck," "oh shit," etc.. in moments of surprise, but maybe that's just developmentally arrested me.

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zinaval1386 reads


An inspiring presence for anyone who grew up in the days of the "Andy Griffith Show."  May he be in that great Mayberry in the sky.

Related Link: Finding Don.

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DoctorGonzo1735 reads

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zinaval2144 reads


I had a pretty good koen going there, till you ruined it. Don't you see! Don Knotts still lives because we could see him in reruns. He's still there in the past doing the same things.

Now that you've ruined it though, it does bring up a more serious philosophical question: Where is DeForest Kelly? Still a more pressing ones: why do we find nobody else named "DeForest?" What was that twirly thing he always waved at somebody before delivering the line: "He's dead Jim." How did he read that thing?

"Where is God not" is a weak question compared to these.    

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DoctorGonzo1799 reads

Deforest Kelley passed away a few years ago. The last time I saw him was on Ventura Blvd. (major San Fernando Valley traffic artery), he was driving his classic T-bird convertible and looking like a retired Starfleet Admiral.

I do see your point about Don Knott's. I did not mean to derail your agenda:)

-- Modified on 9/3/2007 11:37:59 AM

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DoctorGonzo1860 reads

And for you to exhibit such a degree of hubris is typical of those deeply indoctrinated into the falsehoods of dogma.

Unless you have been able to study the texts in their original language, everything you've ever been taught about "Religion" is a lie. A falsehood. A corrupting of ideas and concepts for the self-serving agenda of power hungry people bent on manipulating the masses to their own ends.

And if you HAVE studied the original texts in their untranslated, uncorrupted form, you will discover that everything you've ever been taught about "Religion" is a lie.

Study the originals, and you get a very different lesson than the "aleph-bais" the Rabbi taught you in Hebrew school. Ever studied the Torah? The Dead Sea Scrolls? How about the Babylonian Tractates? The Jerusalem Tractates?

Study the originals, you get a whole different picture than what Reverend Rhetoric preaches to the congregants on Sunday. Ever read the Gospels in the original languages? BEFORE the abomination called the King James Bible was written? Ever studied the formative history of the Vatican from the OUTSIDE?  

Study the originals, and you will find great beauty as well as the terrible evil. Have you ever studied the Qu'ran? If you did, it would be well nigh impossible to accept it was all written by the same man in the same pen by the same hand. At times beauteous and elegant in its flowing narrative, other times crude and vulgar in its evil diatribes.

Everything they taught you is a lie. Even the word "god" has been mutated and corrupted from its original meaning as an adjective for a position of power and leadership.

"We" only know what "We" have been indoctrinated to. Question Authority, or forever be enthralled by Authority.

"Divine Power"? (**snort**) I believe nothing of the sort.

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XiaomingLover11489 reads

"A falsehood. A corrupting of ideas and concepts for the self-serving agenda of power hungry people bent on manipulating the masses to their own ends."


Very good close as well: "Divine Power"? (**snort**) I believe nothing of the sort."


 

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jack01165332010 reads

HOW do we know?  Some people know just because they do.  That's faith.

What you mean is, it can't be explained.  That is, there's no evidence you, I, or X would accept - excepting of course people's 'gut feelings' that something must be so.

It seems far more common for people to imagine some sort of explanation for things they don't understand, than to simply accept that they don't understand, and normally don't need to.

Joe 6-pak may be religious as hell or a complete atheist, but you can bet that he doesn't take his cash register on faith.   IOW, when it comes to the things that matter on a daily basis, religion is OUT THE WINDOW.

I'm the 1st one to say there's lots of stuff I don't understand.  My lack of understanding - or anybody else's - does not, IMHO, prove that there is a God who will save me from my fuckups, or is carrying the world around on his back, or anything else.

But - that's just my humble opinion.  It only becomes aggressive when some FUCKING ASSHOLES want to waste my money and my friends' lives because Jesus told them they might make some money invading Iraq.

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laperla2163 reads

Subordinate to Authority! Why!!  When we don't choose what we are going to do in life, someone will choose it for us.  Regligion is an opiate to the masses who look toward authority as the expert way of mastering what one wants to do vs. deciding and creating it within one's own inner mastery or inner divine will.  No kidding, about the lies created in the teachings of divinity.  If everyone around us could create and pursuade like religious structures and cults, there would be no need for followers....amazing how many observe others making a life for themselves vs. going and making their life on their own to then be perceived as a leader or ...a divine teacher of life.   :)

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HolyHeterodox1805 reads

"If man is one of the greatest achievements of a supreme being; I'm not impressed"              (George Carlin)

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Sophomoric Humorist1930 reads

Consider for a moment the various unsuccesful models which He, in His wisdom, considered but rejected prior to the creation of man.

He's definitely gor some 'splaining to do.

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laperla1678 reads

Leibniz states there is a Divine perfection and parrallelling of the universe to the great omnipresent designer (GOD)among mortal being.  There are statements of creating an answer to things we do not know; Is there a Universe?  Is there a God?  If the universe in quantum physics balances in terms of positrons and negatrons or bosons and ions or "quest ions"...:) we receive a balance of charges in the universal principles that rule the cosmo's.  Opening the mind outside of the mortality box, one's vision encompasses the universal principles to be congruent to human desing, therefore in balance.  If there is a war, we see peact treaties in another part of the world....if your spouse challenges you, you gain support in another area by someone else in life (coworker, friend, dog, another intimate partner, family)....the larger the magnitude of extreme in one thing...the magnitude will equal with the complimentary opposite situation to balance it. God doesn't play dice....
We are the architects of our own lives....no, there is not a God guiding it; yet there is a divine inherentness within that is part of divinity fueling us to go after all we can and are destined to become.

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GOPGeezer1751 reads

Judaism and Christianity are the best for sure.

I heard that the big guy is willing to let us kill each other off till there are only 5% of us left before he intervenes and stops us. I take that to be a whole lot of Big Guy laissez faire!   Wow.


I have a challenge that is going to blow peoples minds.   Prove there is not God!

And one more thing for you atheist and agnostic  dudes.   What about Pascal's wager?

It's sort of a low brow way to start thinking about it but  maybe it will convert someone.

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